Returning to 40K - 2000pt Crimson Fists

[Iain Morrison]

Hi folks,

I used to play 40K avidly back during 2nd/3rd edition, and then life caught up and I went on to other things. I have chosen to return to 40K, and have been playing about with ideas for a fluffy army list, that's fun to play for the Crimson Fists. I'm not looking for tournament efficiency, but it would be nice to have a decent chance at winning. lol The idea is that I will base my first purchases with a view to getting the following army (will build it up in chunks). I would love to hear your thoughts:

Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

with

4 x Honour Guard - Champion, Chapter Banner, 2 x Relic Blades
Dedicated Transport - Razorback (Twin-Linked Lascannon, Dozer Blade)

Elite -
10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Combi-Melta), 7 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

Venerable Dreadnought -Assault Cannon, Dread CCW, Storm Bolter

Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x Twin-Linked Autocannons

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant with Power Fist/Storm Bolter, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant with Power Fist/Storm Bolter, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

Heavy Support -

5 Devastators - Sergeant, 4 x Lascannons

Vindicator - Siege Shield

Vindicator - Siege Shield

- 2000pts

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I think the list has a lot of good components that take advantage of your Chapter Tactics. However, I think your cc unit need a better transport. You will also need some AA so I'd recommend a Stormraven to carry Pedro and the Honor Guard into combat. I would drop both Dreadnoughts and the Honor Guard's Razorback to get this.

Side note on this... can the chapter banner stack with Pedro's bubble of +1 attack? I sort of think they don't... but if they do, that's awesome! I'd also take anothe 2 HG if you have the points. Also, I like axes on half of them and relic blades on half of them, but YMMV.

For your tactical squads, if you're going to give the sgts a power fist, you want them to be veterans so pay for the upgrade... but honestly I don't think it's worth the investment; that's a lot of points for a single character in a unit that doesn't want to be in melee anyway... mainly because he will die in a challenge and probably won't get a chance to bail out the squad anyway. Also, stick to the plasma and heavy bolter instead of plasma cannon because of being in the rhino and moving.

The sternguard are going to be really nasty if you combat squad them out of a drop pod... but in a rhino they are going to have a hard time getting where they want I think. Again, YMMV. I'd stick to 5 combi-melta and 2 heavy flamers and combat squad... lead with the melee sgt and dual heavy flamers to protect the melta squad from a charge, and to roast the contents of a transport they hopefully open on the drop.

[TheDeathJester]

Drop the banner.
Drop pod the honour guard.
Drop pod one tactical Squad.
Drop pod the stern guard.
More marines in your Dev squad, combat squad them, Place them different places.

[errant82]

Thanks guys...sorry for my delay in replying. I've had a hectic couple of weeks!

I have had a bit of a re-jig of my army list, with more of a drop pod focus:

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

with

4 x Honour Guard - Including Champion
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Elite -
10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - Seismic Hammer, Dreadnought CCW, Meltagun, Stormbolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, 2 x Hunter Killer Missiles.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant with Power Weapon/Boltgun, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

7 x Scouts - Sergeant with Sniper Rifle, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Heavy Bolter w/ Hellfire Shells

Heavy Support -

5 Devastators - Sergeant, 4 x Lascannons

Vindicator - Siege Shield

Vindicator - Siege Shield

- 2000pts

The idea being that there is somewhat of a mobile firebase on the field (the anvil), with the hammer being the drop pod assault. It feels characterful for the Crimson Fists (plenty of vets, some scouts, and a combination of siege tanks, heavy weapons, and plenty of bolt weapons to take advantage of the chapter tactics.). Does this look like an improvement?

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I think it looks good. A few minor tweaks I'd make though are to give the devastators just a couple extra bodies so each casualty isn't worth 30+ points. You can probably take the points from the scout squad.. I'd honestly stick with bolters and the heavy bolter... your tac squad can do without the heavy bolter and power weapon probably since they'll be on the move. But other than those tiny adjustments I think the list looks good!

[Bambi]

Sounds like you're in a similar position to me. I had a 12 year break before starting again with Crimson Fists. I like the list but have a couple of suggestions. You currently have 4 drop pods which means only two will drop first turn. You could get rid of a couple of scouts and the powerswod on the tactical sergeant to get a drop pod for the devastators. This would mean you can drop both Sternguard squads and the ironclad on turn one which would be pretty cool.

Alternatively, I would suggest getting rid of the ironclad altogether along with two scouts and the sniper rifles and use the points to get a land speeder storm for the scouts, increase the devastators squad to 10 and add a couple of extra honour guard. This way you can drop the two sternguard squads turn one and have the scouts in reserve for some late game objective grabbing (their speeder counts as objective secured to as it is a dedicated transport for a troops choice, at least I think that's right). You will also be able to combat squad the devs to take on multiple targets.

The only thing this army is lacking is some anti-flyer cover. I don't know how wedded you are to the two vindicators but these could be swapped out for two stormtalons with skyhammer missiles or if you really want a dreadnought in the army, one stormtalon and a dread of some description. Hope this helps.

[Bambi]

The sternguard are going to be really nasty if you combat squad them out of a drop pod... but in a rhino they are going to have a hard time getting where they want I think. Again, YMMV. I'd stick to 5 combi-melta and 2 heavy flamers and combat squad... lead with the melee sgt and dual heavy flamers to protect the melta squad from a charge, and to roast the contents of a transport they hopefully open on the drop.

This is a great tactic and can work a treat. It's even better considering heavy flamers are assault weapons so in some situations you may even be able to assault the target after roasting them. I have them coming out of a stormraven and if you have Kantor in this squad alongside the sternguard seargant with powerfist it means you will get 9 powerfist attacks on the charge, ouch!

[errant82]

Great advice guys! I am stuck in some what of a quandary, now. lol. I am concerned that I will be left with nothing on the table at this rate, as it will all be drop podding, or flying on from reserves. I want to maintain the flavour of the above lists (still not 100% decided whether to go mech or drop), but incorporating some kind of air defence. Trying to combine fluffy and effective, so keeping in mind Crimson Fists (veterans, scouts, siege specialists, devastators, plenty of boltguns), which direction should I be looking in?

I love vehicles, but also love the visual of pods falling from the heavens, spewing out super soldiers... Help!

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Great advice guys! I am stuck in some what of a quandary, now. lol. I am concerned that I will be left with nothing on the table at this rate, as it will all be drop podding, or flying on from reserves. I want to maintain the flavour of the above lists (still not 100% decided whether to go mech or drop), but incorporating some kind of air defence. Trying to combine fluffy and effective, so keeping in mind Crimson Fists (veterans, scouts, siege specialists, devastators, plenty of boltguns), which direction should I be looking in?

I love vehicles, but also love the visual of pods falling from the heavens, spewing out super soldiers... Help!

I think you should drop the scouts and vindicators... they don't seem like something the Crimson Fists would have left... I'd stick to some drop pods mainly, and dig in your gunline. Have you considered devastator centurions with lascannons and missiles? They have a nice 2+ save and if deployed in terrain may survive a decent opening volley of fire. Better yet, if the rest of your list is built for a turn 1 drop pod assault, you could reserve them and just walk them on firing turn 2 or later. I've been using them more and more lately over a regular dev squad and love them because of being able to shuffle around or walk on from reserves firing.

I think the Sternguard are effective in pods, and the tac squads too. I'd honestly go null deploy and pods.

[errant82]

Following above advice, I have come up with this list...Pedro drops with one of the Sternguard squads:

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

Elite -
9 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun, Melta Bombs), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun, Melta Bombs), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - Seismic Hammer, Dreadnought CCW, Meltagun, Stormbolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, 2 x Hunter Killer Missiles.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword,Boltgun, Melta Bombs), Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword,Boltgun, Melta Bombs), Meltagun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

Fast Attack -

Stormtalon - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missiles

Stormtalon - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missiles

Heavy Support -

10 Devastators - Sergeant, 4 x Lascannon
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

- 1998pts

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I think since you already have 5 pods without the dev squad's pod, just drop that and save the 35 points. I'd then drop the two heavy flamers on Pedro's squad because you can't combat squad for that little "trick" like the other squad can. You can then upgrade one Stormtalon to a Stormraven and escort it in with the remaining Stormtalon; you can find the points by dropping the heavy bolters on the tac squads, one Sternguard body from Pedro's squad, or one or two extra dev squad bodies. I'd probalby also get combi-meltas for the tac squad sgts, even if it's instead of heavy bolters, but YMMV.

Other than that, I like it! If you really crunch the points, I'd go ahead and upgrade the storm bolter on the ironclad to a heavy flamer (and coming out of the pod firing ALL his weapons is really awesome now in 7th edition!)

[errant82]

Alacazam!!! An improvement?

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

Elite -
9 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun), 5 x Combi-Meltas.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - Seismic Hammer, Dreadnought CCW, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Ironclad Assault Launchers, 2 x Hunter Killer Missiles.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword, Combi-Melta), Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword, Combi-Melta), Meltagun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

Fast Attack -

Stormtalon - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missiles

Heavy Support -

7 Devastators - Sergeant (Boltgun, Chainsword), 4 x Lascannon

Stormraven - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi Melta, Stormstrike Missiles

- 2000pts

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Boom. Love it.

Hmm... ok actually now that I look at this, if you don't win first turn you might be in trouble surviving with just the dev squad... but you could always drop them and the stormtalon for some lascannon / missile devs that walk on hopefully turn 2 in that case.

[errant82]

Removed the Stormtalon, added a drop pod for the Devs (so the whole army can start in reserve), Deathwind on the Ironclad and sternguard pods, Melta bombs on sternguard and tactical sergeants, a couple more ablative marines on the devs, and a combi-flamer on the sternguard who will combat squad.

HQ -

Pedro Kantor

Elite -
9 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun, Melta Bombs), 5 x Combi-Meltas.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod (Deathwind Launcher)

10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Combi-Flamer, Melta Bombs), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod (Deathwind Launcher)

Ironclad Dreadnought - Seismic Hammer, Dreadnought CCW, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Ironclad Assault Launchers, 2 x Hunter Killer Missiles.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod (Deathwind Launcher)

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs), Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs), Meltagun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

Heavy Support -

9 Devastators - Sergeant (Boltgun, Chainsword), 4 x Lascannon
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

Stormraven - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi Melta, Stormstrike Missiles

- 1999pts

[errant82]

After reading more into the history of the Crimson Fists, this is my attempt to go fluffier. They are known for having a large reliance on Veterans and Scouts, so I have tried to run along those lines. A solid firebase of a rifleman Dreadnought, 2 x Thunderfire cannons (the techmarines add to the fluffy-ness!...and they are decent support weapons!), and a lascannon Dev squad will sit back and unleash some hurt at range. The Devs can take advantage of the 'Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics', with Tank Hunter.

The Devs and Assault marines represent the marines elevated from scout status, working their way up under the watchful eyes of the Sternguard.

The Assault marines will be used to pick off stragglers, or as a reactionary force to back up the firebase/gunline, while the Scouts will look at moving up the flanks, or outflanking, picking on vulnerable units. They are armed with bolters, as they get the Chapter Tactic benefits, and are unable to charge after disembarking. The speeders have heavy flamers to make up for the lack of BS4.

The Sternguard will act as uber-tacticals, taking objectives, and tackling dangerous enemy units. The Rhinos give them mobility, they have combi-meltas in case of a need to take out enemy tanks, and a heavy flamer (and a power fist!) in each squad to put off potential assaulters.

The Stormtalons are my air cover, able to take out enemy fliers, or bring the dakka when it's needed on the ground (and fast). They also have the ability to take out most vehicles.

Pedro rides with one unit of Sternguard, (where his abilities will be of greatest use) and the Librarian will reinforce the firebase.

Thoughts? It's pretty different to my other attempts, but I like the look of it. I'm definitely going for fluff and fun, but I do want to be able to win games. I'm not looking to enter tournaments.


+++ Fluffy Fists (2000pts) +++

++ Space Marines: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (2000pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Chapter Tactics [Imperial Fists]

+ HQ (275pts) +

Librarian (90pts) [Mastery Level 2]
····Power Armour [Force Maul]

Pedro Kantor (185pts) [Dorn's Arrow, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo, Power Armour, Power Fist]

+ Elites (768pts) +

Dreadnought (120pts) [Twin Linked Autocannon, Twin-Linked Autocannon]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (313pts) [3x Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, 8x Veteran]
····Rhino [Dozer Blade]
····Space Marine Sergeant [Boltgun, Power Fist]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (335pts) [3x Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, 9x Veteran]
····Rhino [Dozer Blade]
····Space Marine Sergeant [Boltgun, Power Fist]

+ Troops (210pts) +

Scout Squad (105pts) [4x Scouts]
····Land Speeder Storm [Heavy Flamer]
····Scout Sergeant [Melta Bombs]

Scout Squad (105pts) [4x Scouts]
····Land Speeder Storm [Heavy Flamer]
····Scout Sergeant [Melta Bombs]

+ Fast Attack (355pts) +

Assault Squad (105pts) [Keep Jumppacks, 4x Space Marine]
····Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Power Sword]

Stormtalon Gunship (125pts) [Skyhammer Missile Launcher]

Stormtalon Gunship (125pts) [Skyhammer Missile Launcher]

+ Heavy Support (392pts) +

Devastator Squad (192pts) [4x Lascannon, 7x Space Marine]
····Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt pistol, Bolter]

Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)

Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

[errant82]

Oops double post!

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Hmm well it's definitely a completely different feel than the other list, that's for sure. I don't know too much about their fluff, but I would have figured they would be out of Scouts because don't they have a problem recruiting because they're just drifting along through Space, because of the heavy casualties and destruction of their fortress monastary? I'm not sure though what they lost...

Anyway, fluff aside (since I don't really know it) I like most of the units you have here individually. The Sternguard are going to have a hard time getting into position.. I'm really not sold on the meltas being in the rhino. I do like the heavy flamers from the firepoints though, it creates a nice mobile ap4 pillbox to clear some xenos from an objective. Land speeder storms and scouts are great, and their bolters are better thanks to your CTs. Overall I think you have the Objective Secured game pretty well handled by some strong choices. I'd probably just get rid of all the combi meltas though because nothing is gonna get within the range of that rhino.. they're really only great if you can position them in a pod IMO.

I don't know what the Libby ads to the list, and he's not really going to be effective with the devastators... honestly the more and more I see devastators in lists, the more I like Dev Centurions to replace them. At least with them, the libby could provide some protection or maybe cover for them as they move (or he could even teleport them around possibly?) but static devs are just hard to justify IMO being so immobile and susceptible to AP3 flame weapons.

Don't forget the libby opens up the command squad, which is a nice unit, that on bikes with grav could add some more mobility to the list since it's turned into a pretty static gunline.

[errant82]

What if I swap out the devs, combi-meltas and libby for some Las/Missile Centurions, and increase the Assault squad to 8? That's a 1999 point army.

The CFs have lots of Scouts, as they are rebuilding their chapter...they are recent recruits.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I think that would be a good change, IMO. I use the dev cents with that load-out a lot and am always pleasantly surprised by how well they do. They are a little expensive, but with tank hunter I feel it's justified.

[errant82]

I think I will go with that list. I haven't bought the minis yet, but I want a shopping list, so I don't just buy random units (my old habit). I'd rather have some kind of plan...I can always add more in the future. My main opponents will be using MEQs, Tau, and Tyranids. I think I should be able to comfortably take those on with this list. Thanks for your help!