Ideas for a CC capable Imperial Guard army.

[Tombworld]

So, conventional wisdom says that Imperial Guard (IG) getting anywhere in Close combat (CC) is a load of BS. But is that strictly true?
I've just started playing 40k again, using IG, and it's a bit repetitive to see melta vet spam all the time. A BOLS report showed a Strakken-led IG force with a strong CC element taking names and kicking xenos butt.
So I'd like some advice from any IG egg-spurts who may have experience using the force in CC, just so I can create a more original and interesting force.

First up, I was wondering wether to use the influence of Yarrik or Strakken. If you had to pick just one, which do most people consider the best of those two if you want a strong CC elements in you army? Both have buffs, and advantages and disadantages; For example, Strakken has ablative wounds and customisation options since he has a retinue, Whereas Yarrik is one guy, but has Eternal Warrior and is very tough to kill.

Second, is it actually worth trying to have a genuinly competitive CC element? There are so many units that can buff out an infantry unit, and you have a lot of bodies meaning a lot of attacks. But even with the magic of priest granted re-rolls, Commissar enforced stubborness and their hidden powerfists and eviscerators...will a, say, 20-man blob squad ever stand a chance of being dangerous to much else than a kitten with its claws out? I'm not a mathhammer head; can anyone work some numerical magic on some CC scenarios (For example, uber-buffed Strakken-and-Yarrik influenced 20-man blob Vs whatever-the-heck-you-might-reasonably-face-in-CC)?

Thirdly, I'd love to play a 1500 game with Strakken AND Yarrik. It seems to make the Guard reasonably formiddible in CC. Is it expensive? Oh yeah! But any infantry within their spheres of influence will have I4 and STR4 on the charge (Strakken's influence), re-roll to hit on the charge (Yarrik's), and have counter-charge (Straken) as well as be either fearless or at least stubborn, as well as have the weight of the characters' individual prowess in the fight. Plus, it'd be interesting, you could have some great models on the board, and It'd be the last thing the enemy would expect. But would such a force still get slapped around by the vast majority of other armies in CC? I ask because I would genuinly give it a go, collecting a CC IG army, but I'd like to know if it's at least plausible it could be competitive before I do!

I even toyed with a CC based list:
'Iron-Nipple' Strakken, 3xvets w/las-pistols, 1xvet w/med-kit, 2xbodyguards, Chimera
Commissar Yarrik (attached to one of the 20-man squads)

PCS w/4xMelta Guns, Chimera
20-man Infantry squad w/2xflamers and Commissar W/Powerfist

PCS w/4xMelta Guns, Chimera
20-man Infantry Squad W/2xflamers and Commissar W/Powerfist

PCS w/4xMelta Guns, Chimera
20-man Infantry Squad W/2xFlamers, and Commissar W/Powerfist
20-Man Infantry squad W/2xflamers and Commissar W/Powerfist

Sentinel W/Autocannon.

The idea is that the melta gun equipped squads zoom ahead and hopefully a few get through and destroy the Biiiiig stuff. Alternatively, the Chimeras are parked up as road-blocks to block LOS for ranged weaponry, or impede movement of enemy melee units while everyone advances on foot, hopefully safe from enemy threats as they close in.

The blob squads advance, and Yarrik and Strakken remain close to the centre so they can both affect as many units as possible. As soon as they get close enough, it's charge-ey time! Again, if they can stay within the influence of both the Charcters, that 4x20 man squads with counter-charge, Furious charge, stubborn, re-rolling to hit on-the-charge, and with a cheeky Powerfist attack, which, if I understand the rules right, would be boosted to STR 8 on the charge (Furious charge boosts str by 1. Powerdist doubles user's strength, so +1 is added either to the user's base STR making it 4, doubled by the PF to 8, or it boosts the PF-enhanced strength of the attack from 6 to 7; can anyone clear this up?) And I'd get to use those fantastic Commisar models!

Any advice on IG CC would be welcome. Again, it'd just be nice to be able to unlock that element of the game for a traditionally shooty army, and make something different from the Vet-melta hegemony!

[Tynskel]

I like Straken with Deddog.

To me they sound like Optimus Prime and The Dino-bots

'Me, Grimlock, Kick Butt!'

I don't think going straight CC will win you lots of games- they will be fun. The guard codex, in its flexibility, has inflexibility, due to the need to take a little bit of everything (same with Tyranids!). I think one platoon designed to back up Straken/Yarrick will do well. The rest of the army should be concerned with everything else.

[BuFFo]

If you are playing for fun, give an IG CC army a shot.

If you want to actually win games (against good players, and not your little brother or the new kid), avoid an IG CC army like the plague. A CC unit here and there is okay, but not an entire army dedicated to it.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

For all bonuses, add after you multiply. Guard powerfists are S7 with furious charge. Be thankful, this stops there from being S10 space marine powerfists.

[ColCorbane]

Personally, I'd say CC and IG don't go together, well not if you're looking to win games. If it's for ****s and giggles, then take straken, a shed load of conscripts and as many penal troops as you can!

[crazyredpraetorian]

I played in a 2500pt Hobby tournament, yesterday. My results weren't stellar but neither were my dice rolls. I had a ton of fun and that is the real goal. I brought 9 Ogryn and they managed to kill quite alot in the 3 games. Here is the list as close as I can recall w/o having it in front of me:

Straken- 2x melta, 2x flamer, medic, 2x body guard, chimera

Lord Commisssar- carapace, power fist,

2x Priest w/ eviserator

5x Ogryn, chimera

4x Ogryn, chimera

Platoon Command- Lascannon, 2 x sniper rifles, bolter

Squad 1- Autocannon, grenade launcher

Squad 1- Heavy bolter, grenade launcher

Heavy Squad- 3x Lascannon

Heavy Squad- 3x Lascannon

Vet Squad- Harker, 2x plasma, melta, demo, chimera

Vet Squad- Sgt w/ power weapon and plasma pistol, 3x melta, demo

Valkyrie- MRP

5x Rough Riders

Hellhound

Demolisher, Lacannon, plasma cannons

Hydra

Hydra

I ran the Lord Commissar with 5 ogryn, 1 preist w/ 4 ogryn, and 1 priest w/ Straken. It was a fun list, not something to bring to a heavy tournament but a ball to play. The Ogryn drug down a hive tyrant, a librarian, and some MEQs. The dice gods were not kind and I went 0-2-1 for the day but, it did come down to dice(really bad dice, where's my sledge hammer?)

[Outlander]

So, conventional wisdom says that Imperial Guard (IG) getting anywhere in Close combat (CC) is a load of BS. But is that strictly true?

First up, I was wondering wether to use the influence of Yarrik or Strakken. If you had to pick just one, which do most people consider the best of those two if you want a strong CC elements in you army? Both have buffs, and advantages and disadantages; For example, Strakken has ablative wounds and customisation options since he has a retinue, Whereas Yarrik is one guy, but has Eternal Warrior and is very
The blob squads advance, and Yarrik and Strakken remain close to the centre so they can both affect as many units as possible. As soon as they get close enough, it's charge-ey time! Again, if they can stay within the influence of both the Charcters, that 4x20 man squads with counter-charge, Furious charge, stubborn, re-rolling to hit on-the-charge, and with a cheeky Powerfist attack, which, if I understand the rules right, would be boosted to STR 8 on the charge (Furious charge boosts str by 1. Powerdist doubles user's strength, so +1 is added either to the user's base STR making it 4, doubled by the PF to 8, or it boosts the PF-enhanced strength of the attack from 6 to 7; can anyone clear this up?) And I'd get to use those fantastic Commisar models!

Alright. I think i should clear things up here.

Thing number one. Check the codex.

I see that you're arming your commisars with powerfists. page 97 does not allow commissars to equip power fists when they're attatched to infantry squads. They can equip power fists when attatched to the infantry command squads.

Secondly,

As a black templar player, I learned the +1 strength bonus is stacked AFTER the powerfist, so it would be strength 7, not strength 8.

thirdly,

I LOVE Straken, with nork... he's just great. don't worry about bodyguards spending 30 points on 2 extra toughness 3 wounds. I just love charging with him and a block of twenty guardsmen.

As for actual play value, CC guard are fun but I wouldn't say they're competitive, however, playing other guard lists against them. LOTS of FUN.

Good luck with your army!

[ggg]

Are you not tempted to add roughriders into your zone of win? I have never seen kamir taken as an upgrade but if you are making an all out and out assault army - strakken is a must but I would have thought a big pack of rough riders with kamir in reserve was pure cc fun? (stick 2 flamers in that unit and they can take down even a mob of orks on the charge as well as smaller elite units). Creed is another cc option- for the honour of cadia is often overlooked- and he would let you outflank with angry horseriders.

[Majorcrash]

not sure how if many think this list works for them, but I will say that I have had a lot of success so far with it.
And its fairly close combatty.
CC with all armed with CC wpns, Allied inquisitor lord with cc load out (but still under 100pnts) an eversor assassin ( ultimate CC)
2 platoons of troops all armed with plasma or melta, SPc wpn squad w/t meltas and demo. 5 valkryies, 3 vendettas. The key has been the ability to put all the troops together and strike. Instead of having to let them come to me or also able isolate part of the enemy

[Legoklods]

A cc oriented IG?
I shall now state the obvious:...

Ogryns...

3 squads of them.

In transport.

[Tombworld]

"...does not allow commissars to equip power fists when they're attatched to infantry squads"

Oh yeah. I remember. 'Cos I remember looking at the rules and thinking...that doesn't make any sense! Why would they NOT have PF's? It renders them a lot less useful, as does the 'Priests don't grant Ogryns a re-roll on the charge' rule. ARGH!:(

Ogryns seem a bit wishy-washy. If they were cheaper, they'd be great, but without power weapons, will they do much but hold up other units? I don't see them spectacularly smashing aside the likes of a Chaos Space Marine squad, I think it's more likley they'd be bogged down in that combat for a while. And any dedicated CC unit the enemy has will likely be more dangerous than a few Ogryns. And the big lunks are sooo expensive. But if anyone has any advice on using them really effectively, I'd love to hear it! They're great models (I have 5), and I'd love to field 'em.

I think a CC-only Guard army sounds like it won't ever be competitive. :( But I'd like my Guard to have a solid CC unit for the fun of opening up an element of the game not often employed by IG players, and throwing off the enemy a bit. I'd love to have a section of my army that can smash into a sneaky Deepstriking unit and send it packing, or storm an objective and bash the enemy to bits!

So I was thinking of including:
Yarrik attached to a squad of Ogryns
Straken CCS plus some Ogryns
or
Straken CCS plus 20 Guard w/2flamers.

I'm most tempted by option three; there's some (limited) ranged ability, they count as troops, it's the cheapest option (Though still a bit steep), and there's a lot of attacks going the enemies way. Of course, I haven't much experience in the game; would the less numerous, but tougher, stronger Ogryns be a better back-up for Straken d y'all reckon? I'd love for that to be so, it'd be great to field some Ogres from spaaaaaaaace!

[Sam]

Straken CCS and two platoons maxed out on infantry squads. Blob the infantry squads into 50 man squads and add a commissar to one squad in each platoon. Bring tanks and possibly heavy weapons for fire support.

A 50-man guard squad with a commissar will destroy just about anything in CC...eventually. The only thing you need to look out for is other horde CC units, namely ork boys and hormagaunts. When they get too close to you, use FRFSRF. I played CC guard exclusively for around two months, with very few losses. They can be competitive.

[MVBrandt]

A little late to the party, but I've run "combat capable" guard with some success ...

First off, 1500 is a little hard to work with. It's a fading 40k points level, especially as more and more codices are released that are balanced and tuned for the 1850-2250 range.

That said, here's a starting framework you can look at for a guard army that is capable at combat and at shooting with points to spare on whatever you'd like - ranged upgrades, more guardsmen to throw at things, etc.

What you really want to do with combat capable guard is play the typical guard game, but with a little more willingness to get close and stay in your transports. Utilize the fire point advantage that Chimeras have and the spammability of meltaguns, and then trick out on top of your squads to take better advantage of Straken.

This won't be the most competitive CC army, and it won't be the most competitive guard army, but you can do surprsingly well at combat without sacrificing what guard does correctly.


Starting framework ...

Straken CCS w/ 3 Meltaguns, Medic, Carapace Armor, 2 x Bodyguards in Chimera w/ Multilaser/Heavy Flamer - 310 points
4 x Vet Squad w/ 3 Meltaguns, Shotguns, Power Fist, in Chimera w/ Multilaser/Heavy Flamer - 680 points

You're sitting at 990 points here, and you have 40 guys who shoot like IG melta chimera vets, but charge like a squad of space marines with a relic blade on the sarge. No, really, even though it goes at I1, squads of 10 will probably last long enough to swing it. More importantly, you're a GUARD player so you're going to have tons of meltaguns and shotguns to throw at infantry targets before you charge them, and you gain the ability to at least threaten a monstrous creatures. To wit, in fact, if you give the appropriate order to your guardsmen, you throw 3 re-rolling bs4 meltaguns and 13 re-rolling bs4 s3 shots at a monster, then c harge and throw 18 s4i4 attacks and 3 s7i1 attacks ... it is actually surprisingly effective at FINISHING things that your shooting fails to get that final wound or two off, or that pair of marines w/ a power fist and meltagun who used wound allocation shens to survive you blowing up their rhino and spamming them with squad shots or lasgun fire.

Think of it like building a regular melta-vet heavy guard list, but tacking 15 points on to every squad, and instead of running, say, 2 melta command squads in chimeras at 290 points, you are spending 20 points more to run a super combat guard squad in a chimera.

Also, keep in mind that Straken is not a combat monster in the typical sense. His squad isn't meant to go after, for example, terminators. Especially not thunder hammer storm shield terminators. A straken command squad will melt through a space marine assault squad or any number of non-combat units, especially tac marines and the like, but it will get hosed trying to deal with combat specialists. Remember, if you pick your targets wisely (read: not a ton of power weapons) your squad has the same TOUGHNESS and SAVE as Eldar Fortuned Seer Councils (4+ re-rollable thanks to the medic). The power weapon heavy cc specialist squads ... that's what your meltaguns, mutilasers, heavy flamers and shotguns are for - killing them off via close range torrent. If you leave a single terminator, on the other hand, now you don't have to be the usual guard who goes "****, he's gonna go punch a tank to death since I rapid fired all over the place." Instead, you charge 18 s4 attacks and 3 s7 power weapon attacks at that survivor or two and finish them off.


There are a lot of ways you can go with it, and it really depends on how fluffy / combaty you want to be. You'll still find success in "casual" games.

Take for example a very off the cuff fluffier build -

Straken CCS w/ Krak Grenades, 2 Bodyguards, Carapace Armor, 3 Meltaguns, Medic, Chimera - 315
3 x Vet Squad w/ 3 Meltaguns, Carapace, Power Fist, Chimera - 600
Yarrick - 185
Platoon Command Squad w/ Chimera, 4 Flamer, Power Fist - 120
35 Conscripts - 140
2 Guard Squads w/ 2 Flamers, 2 Meltabombs, 2 Power Swords - 140

Now you've got 5 Chimeras full of guys, the ability to deal with vehicles up close, 35 conscripts that can be ordered to triple tap lasguns with Yarrick's LD of 10 nearby if you really want to, or can furiously charge and throw 70 S4I4 attacks, a blob of 20 guardsmen that can throw 8 s4i4 power weapon attacks and 36 s4i4 regular attacks on the charge, after throwing 2 flamers at the target, or can rapid fire also, and all the veterans plus the pcs w/ power fists and such ... more importantly, Yarrick can ensure orders are passed more reliably and make sure you're stubborn, just in case you whiff in any of your combats (can happen). Plus, Yarrick + Straken charging something and re-rolling to hit in CC ... is hilarious. Never forget that once you lose 2 of the vet guardsmen from straken's CCS (which you kinda want to do ASAP) your weapon skill becomes 4, or arguably (if you're a rules lawyer) 5 (2 bodyguards at ws4, 2 vets at ws3, and straken at ws5 ... when there's a tie, you go with the highest, RAW, at the least it's a 4). Want to charge something and make sure it dies, like TH/SS termies, with Yarrick? Detach him from straken, and walk him over to the conscripts. Now they're fearless, and re-roll those 70 attacks to hit when they charge.

W/E you do, I strongly suggest playing guard like guard. When you're up close to those marine rhinos and you can either move 6" w/ the chimera, and meltagun out of hatch, or disembark, try to meltagun th e rhinos and charge the survivors, STAY IN. Blow up their rhino w/ your hatch meltaguns, heavy flame the guys inside with the chimera, and LET THEM move up and try to pop you out of yours. If they somehow manage to do so and charge you, you've got counter-attack, power fists and stubborn. If they don't, which they typically won't, you're golden, b/c now they're out in the open and already dinged up ... finish them if you can w/out getting out, bu t if you HAVE to charge something, you can with conviction and reliability. You'll have a fun guard list, you can get the "oh wow" out of people w/ charges, but you don't have to be "bad" either.

There are a lot of fun side things you can do too, such as taking a vendetta, and taking a small squad of grey knight allies. One of the big reasons grey knights suck so hard is that they're only I4 ... but what if they're I5 ... it's fun from time to time.

[mercer]

Strakken in a CCS with perhaps Nork as a bodyguard. Throw in Yarrick perhaps. Then get a priest for every infantry platoon for furious charge.