Thanquol - Spoilerific Discussion.

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Just getting it set up nice and early. As with the others, expect spoilers from hereon in. No spoiler tags necessary or expected - you have been warned.

































Right, first one - WD makes reference to 'Thanquol's Uprising'. Now whether this is him leading Skavendom (it's possible. The Nagash book has the Horned Rat put the willies up the Council of Thirteen, by smiting the chief Grey Seer), or perhaps Thanquol leading a Skaven rebellion of sorts (because he is Thanquol) I don't yet know!

[Erik Setzer]

From the description of the books:


Inside you will find rules for mighty characters like Thanquol and his gigantic bodyguard Boneripper, the dread Verminlords and the empowered dwarf slayer king Ungrim, Incarnate of Fire.

So, there's another incarnate, right there.

I wonder if the "new armies" will include options for Dwarfs and/or Lizardmen, not just Skaven? I'd speculate on what they'd be story-wise (to keep in line with the idea of the forum topic), but that's just speculation, not actual spoilerific discussion of facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Description of "The Rise of the Horned Rat" (novel to coincide with Thanquol):


The End Times are coming. In the warrens of Skavenblight, a new power is rising. The verminlords walk the earth and they plan to lead the skaven to their destiny as rulers of the world. But for Queek Headtaker, the only destiny that matters is his own, as he plans his final assault on Karak Eight Peaks. In the depths of that ancient city, two rival kings - the goblin Skarsnik and the dwarf Belegar - prepare to meet the onslaught. And in Karaz-a-Karak, High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer presides over what he knows, in his heart, is the end of the dwarf empire. The Horned Rat rises and nothing will ever be the same...

Are Skarsnik and Belegar going to end up working together against the Skaven? Also, "the end of the dwarf empire?" Sounds like more big stuff happening.

Can't wait for all the novels to be softcover. I need cheaper copies and the ebooks don't "feel right" to read (I like feeling a book in my hand, flipping the pages, seeing the progress physically).

[Mr Mystery]

Softcover are my choice too. Mostly because I didn't start with, and have now missed out on, the hardbacks.

Could go e-book though. Would save on storage.

As for the Skaven alliance with Archaon, I can't help but wonder if Thanquol might prove Archaon's downfall? No Skaven, let alone Thanquol tend to be happy sharing power and glory.....

As for armies, I'm interested to see if there is one in this book, and if so, I really hope there's a mash up list allowing us to field the sort of rag tag armies you find in the Border Princes....that'd be cool.

[Erik Setzer]

Softcover are my choice too. Mostly because I didn't start with, and have now missed out on, the hardbacks.

Could go e-book though. Would save on storage.

As for the Skaven alliance with Archaon, I can't help but wonder if Thanquol might prove Archaon's downfall? No Skaven, let alone Thanquol tend to be happy sharing power and glory.....

As for armies, I'm interested to see if there is one in this book, and if so, I really hope there's a mash up list allowing us to field the sort of rag tag armies you find in the Border Princes....that'd be cool.

I have the first couple books as e-books, but I just can't read them as well. The stories are interesting, but something about that format doesn't feel right to me. Which is odd, given that I'm a computer professional, but eh.

The Skaven could certainly be the downfall of Archaon, because I doubt the Horned Rat wants to share the world with the other Chaos Gods. So that'll be fun to watch.

One of the descriptions did mention "armies" in the book, so there's likely to be something in there, but who knows? Maybe some kind of Slayer list (again)? Though that might be rough without the extra models they threw in last time. Might even be a Thanquol-Archaon Skaven-Chaos mix... which would just be so, so wrong.

[Mr Mystery]

Just picked up WD, and they've done well with the collated timeline so far.

Lists the major events, but knowing what happens in Nagash, Glottkin and Khaine, they're not particularly spoilerish!

Very interested to find out what happens at Karak Eight Peaks now! And Lustria.

[Erik Setzer]

Very interested to find out what happens at Karak Eight Peaks now!

After reading the one bit in the timeline, I just can't stop picturing a dwarf looking at the ruins of the Great Hall and dropping to his knees shouting, "You maniacs! You blew it up!"

[Mr Mystery]

Warhammer: Thanquol is the fourth tome of the End Times, a two-book set packed with new background, rules, illustrations, full-page artwork, army lists, campaign rules and plenty more besides. As with the other books in the series, the first book tells the story of the End Times, starting with the brief and intensely bloody invasion of Tilea and Estalia. Having annihilated two nation-states in as many months, the Skaven set their sights on the rest of the world. Clan Pestilens take the war to Lustria, the Warlord Clans battle the Dwarfs beneath the mountains, Clan Skryre start work on a very large rocket and Grey Seer Thanquol, ambitious as ever, comes up with yet another cunning plan.

Please.....please tell me Skryre are trying a Moon Shot for Morrislieb. Please.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

They blew up the moon! Lustria's gone! Middenheim's gone! Valten is dead - but not how you expect! Ulric is gone! Ungrim Ironfist is the Incarnate of Fire, and also basically the last Dwarf king! Snikch goes mountaineering! Archaon is brooding! Thanquol gets promoted!

I have no idea where we even go from here. It's going to be big.

[Erik Setzer]

And Thanquol is actually trying to play Archaon. I love that. It's just like Skaven. That "alliance" is just him trying to position his own group of Skaven to get on top of the world.

[Morgrim]

So what's the fate of the lizardmen? Wiped out with no Winds of Magic bound to them? *grimaces*

[Erik Setzer]

So what's the fate of the lizardmen? Wiped out with no Winds of Magic bound to them? *grimaces*

Nah. The Slann protected them. Granted, the Slann got decimated in the process, but the Lizardmen survived.

I think the Lizardmen will be sticking around in Warhammer, but they probably wanted to ditch the Slann since they're all resin models and are the only non-lizard-folk models in the army. If that doesn't affect the army's balance in-game, I think most Lizardmen players will be fine with that, as long as they get to keep playing with their dinosaurs.

[wayne williams]

damn i loved the slann mage minis on there floating thrones.

[Harbinger Rising]

Really enjoying the fact that Thanqoul is playing a huge part in the End Times.

He was such a crafty villain in the Gotrek & Felix tales.

[Deadlift]

Really enjoying the fact that Thanqoul is playing a huge part in the End Times.

He was such a crafty villain in the Gotrek & Felix tales.

Crafty ? I thought he was jokey, borderline idiotic. He seems much darker and intimidating now.

[Theik]

And thus comes my count of the dead and dying...well...no, really just dead.

I no doubt missed a lot of lesser heroes, but I'm going to try and focus on the most important players here.

Morrslieb
Let's start with a bang. In their most demented plot yet, the Skaven draw Morrslieb closer so they can shoot it, which causes it to break up in continent-size chunks of warpstone.

The Slann
Not really dead, but pretty much gone, the Slann start their Exodus back into space and the vast majority of them fly off in their temples-turned-spaceships.

Lord Mazdamundi
Lord Mazdamundi dies after overextending his magical might to try and break the meteors raining down from Morrslieb so the entire world isn't destroyed.

Venerable Lord Kroak
Mazdamundi seems to focus on saving the other races of the world, as Lustria is still bombarded by massive meteors. Kroak sacrifices his (un)life to create forcefields around several lizardmen armies and sending them away from Lustria.

Lustria
Lustria is pretty much destroyed by the pieces of Morrslieb raining down upon it.

Clan Pestilens
Clan Pestilens is almost entirely decimated as they were the clan responsible for the war in Lustria.

Nuln
Nuln is completely destroyed by Thanquol's forces. Only the elector countess and several of her royal guard manage to escape the destruction.

Altdorf
Altdorf never gets time to recover from the Glottkin's attack and is overrun by skaven. Valten and Gregor lead a very loud breakthrough towards the North, giving the Emperor and much of the civilian population a chance to escape southwards while the Skaven are too busy chasing north.

All Dwarven holds safe Karaz-a-Karak
From what I can tell, every dwarven hold besides Karaz-a-Karak falls to the Skaven and greenskin.

Belegar Ironhammer
Apparently getting a new miniature is a death-sentence. Doesn't look like trying to recapture Eight Peaks was a very good idea.

Boris Todbringer
Middenland's elector count leads an ill-fated sortie into the Drakwald to finally kill his one-eyed nemesis. He manages to slay Khazrak in single combat, but is then torn asunder by the remaining beastmen.

Khazrak One-Eye
Slain by Boris Todbringer in single combat

Ulric
Nope, just when you thought it was safe to be a god again, Teclis stabs you in the back. Teclis sucks the fires of the Flame of Ulric into his staff, dooming Ulric to death. As a last attempt at aiding his city, Ulric binds his spirit to Gregor.

Valten
New models get you killed, but apparently so do new rules. Valten is beaten by Archeon in single combat, but before Archeon can claim the deathblow a Verminlord killsteals him and runs off with the experience.

Malagor the Dark Omen
Malagor is shot out of the sky by the Ulric-empowered Gregor with a spear of ice.

Gregor Martak
The end-times have been a seriously bad time for the Colleges of Magic. Gregor, despite being infused with the power of Ulric, is slain in combat by Archeon while attempting to avenge Valten, leaving the Colleges of Magic once again leaderless.

Middenland
After Gregor and Valten have fallen, the city of Middenland is quickly lost and completely defiled by Archeon's forces.

Queek Headtaker
Hoping to claim the head of High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Queek challenges him to single combat and is rewarded by being strangled to death.

High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer
After the battle, Thorgrim climbs up to his usual spot to survey the land, only to be backstabbed by Deathmaster Snikch.

Karaz-a-Karak itself?
The very last page has Thanquol watching in a scryglobe as Snikch paints arcane runes on the floor after killing Thorgrim. According to the Verminking, this will allow the Verminlord's to gain entry into the throneroom and the skaven to surge out into Karaz-a-Karak. Its final fate, however, is left undetermined.






Phew, that's a lot of dead people.

[daboarder]

vakten doesn't have a new model, they just re-did the storm of chaos one

[Mr Mystery]

Lizardman Space Telephone.

Skaven accidentally prank call Eldar!

No. Really. I'm not making that up!

[Erik Setzer]

vakten doesn't have a new model, they just re-did the storm of chaos one

Yeah, he said that not only does a new model do you in (referencing his comment with one of the guys above), but new rules (which Valten *did* get).

[marful]

Is it just me, or is it only the characters from the Forces of Order that are really dying?

I mean, more than half the elf characters are dead, almost all of the dwarves wiped out, the slaan characters are dead, not to mention what is happening to the empire.

So, how many chaos characters died? What about Skaven and Undead? Did any actually die?

[daboarder]

Yeah, he said that not only does a new model do you in (referencing his comment with one of the guys above), but new rules (which Valten *did* get).

oh ok, I miss comprehended that statement. thought he was being sarcastic about having a new model = protection from the GW armegeddon

[Mr Mystery]

Is it just me, or is it only the characters from the Forces of Order that are really dying?

I mean, more than half the elf characters are dead, almost all of the dwarves wiped out, the slaan characters are dead, not to mention what is happening to the empire.

So, how many chaos characters died? What about Skaven and Undead? Did any actually die?

Many Undead characters didn't survive.

Nagash saw the demise of The Lichemaster Heinrich Kemmler (blown up), Zacahrias The Eve Living (brain boiled away) and sort of Dieter Helsnicht (ate loads of Necromancer, became Guardian of Underworld).

Chaos? Glottkin got jobbed by Karl Franz empowered (currerntly in jars in Nurgle's manse)

Dark Elves? Morathi, Tyrion, Tullaris. All d.e.d....DED.

Skaven? Not finished that book yet!

There will be more before The End Times come to a close - and that's when I reckon we'll see the Butcher's Bill totted up by the bad guys as well.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Lizardman Space Telephone.

Skaven accidentally prank call Eldar!

No. Really. I'm not making that up!


What?

[Mr Mystery]

What?

Lizardman Space Telephone.

Skaven accidentally prank call Eldar.

It happens! The Warlock engineers then panic and wreck the thing, giving it some dakka with Warplock pistols.

[Vix]

That's a pretty good list Theik, the only other things that I recall were that Ind was destroyed by the Skaven (P.38) and the Dwarves have reports that Bretonnia was completely overun by Skaven as well (P.122). And it was the city of Middenheim rather than Middenland... although I think Middenland was said to be toast, too.

There were some minor characters as I don't recall their names cropping up anywhere else: Weissburg, the current Grandmaster of the White Wolves, the steamtank Deliverance... again, and while we know Thorek is presumed quite dead, did we ever get full confirmation that Kragg the Grim was as well?

[Erik Setzer]

Lizardman Space Telephone.

Skaven accidentally prank call Eldar.

It happens! The Warlock engineers then panic and wreck the thing, giving it some dakka with Warplock pistols.

Could you at least direct us to where that happens in the book?

[Mr Mystery]

During Chapter One, when the Skaven are ransacking one of the Temple Cities (City of Mists I think).

It makes mention of ancient parts of the city filled with artefacts the Lizardmen don't understand/care about.

The Warlock Engineers start mucking about with one, when suddenly, over stone speakers, a reedy voice garbles a question. Skaven freak out and smash it up, noting that the voice sounded a lot like the Elf-Things.

Skaven Prank Calls FTW!

[Harbinger Rising]

Crafty ? I thought he was jokey, borderline idiotic. He seems much darker and intimidating now.

That's what I meant by crafty. A saturday morning-cartoon baddie who twirled his moustache and ran away when a fight got too out of hand.

I find it strange that Chaos would ally itself with Skaven at all. I thought they thought they were beneath them.

[Morgrim]

I find it strange that Chaos would ally itself with Skaven at all. I thought they thought they were beneath them.
In the end, Skaven are the servants of Chaos too. The Great Horned Rat isn't quite on par with the big four (yet) but he's a very powerful daemon in his own right.

[Theik]

Is it just me, or is it only the characters from the Forces of Order that are really dying?

I mean, more than half the elf characters are dead, almost all of the dwarves wiped out, the slaan characters are dead, not to mention what is happening to the empire.

So, how many chaos characters died? What about Skaven and Undead? Did any actually die?

Queek the Headtaker dies. I don't know if any other significant Skaven die, as they all look the same to me. Ikit Claw gets toasted and is forever stuck to his armor but otherwise alive. Lord Skrolk had half a moon dropped on his head, but is apparently still alive, judging by the verminking conversation in the end of the book.

[Vix]

Mr Mystery is quite right. It's a Eldar swirling dial stargate/webway thing they call "the Device of the Great Beyond", from the sacking of Xlanhuapec (City of Mists). It was on page 44.

[Houghten]

Ikit Claw gets toasted and is forever stuck to his armor but otherwise alive.

Since he was almost completely dependent on it anyway, that's just a day in the life of Ikit Claw.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

So, I've finally done a proper read-through of Thanquol. I like it! I'd initially missed some details; first one that comes to mind is that Thorgrim - or, at least, the Throne of Power - briefly became host to the Wind of Metals. It left him after he killed Queek. Do the Lores have a will of their own? (Probably.) Can they take multiple hosts? (Certainly!)

The other one is people yelling about "oh all the lizardmen are gone!" - no. The Slann and some of their chosen attendants blasted off into space. A lot of the rest (presumably including some remaining Slann?) were protected in force-fields by Kroak, lifted out of the conflagration and sent "across the horizon". I wouldn't be surprised if they land somewhere in the Old World.

Likewise, Bretonnia. We're suffering from a lack of clear, reliable information about Bretonnia. The line people have jumped on is that Bretonnia is "overrun by Skaven". Firstly, "overrun" doesn't mean "destroyed". It's just... full of Skaven. Well, where isn't in this book? Secondly, it's explicitly noted that this is news from "less reliable sources". We still have Gilles and the Grail Knights to deal with, and there's the survivors from Louen's Crusade with the Emperor. So don't count out the Bretonnians just yet.

I wonder about Valten. Who or what was he? Is he gone for good...? Will Karl Franz ever get his hammer back!? The real one, I mean, not the one made out of pure lightning zappy-zaps.

[Wildeybeast]

I get the impression Metal left the throne after one of the chumps carrying it dropped it. I'm not sure the Lores have a will of their own as such, they just seem to be seeking out hosts that are kindred spirits.

As for Valten, I think he was just what he is described as; the Herald of Sigmar. A bloke given special favour by Sigmar, but definitely not a reincarnation or anything like that. He bows to KFA and acknowledges him as the chosen of Sigmar.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Ah, yeah. I'd forgotten the dropping: y'could be right there!

I wonder if Valten's not kind of a red herring, yeah.