Debating Starting a PanO Force.........But have no idea how to play!

[White Tiger88]

I am considering starting Infinity with a PanO army however i have no idea how to build a list or play! So far i just have a few models i really like and was wondering if anyone could help me figure out a list of some sort????

Opperation Icestorm:Battlepack (Will be getting when i get into the game for the models and the map\stuff...)
Equestrian Order of Knights of the Holy Sepulchre (love this model!)
Jotum T.a.g (Favorite T.A.G.)
Dragoon T.a.g (Second Favorite T.A.G.)
Joan D'arc 2.0

I saw lots of people talking about "knight" lists however i couldn't find anything on if they can take the tags i like or anything else................Plus i want to have something fairly competitive! Any and all suggestions would be great guys!

So far i am thinking for sure if it could work to build a 200pt list which i assume is a good level for noobs?

Joan D'arc
Knight of the Holy Sepulchre

....Well thats as far as i got lol

[Quaade]

Welcome on board the Infinity train, next stop Awesomeville! :)

First of, I'll recommend downloading the rules, you can find them here http://www.infinitythegame.com/archive.php :)

You can also find a version with bookmarks in the .pdf here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0r4eoe9we7sfz61/Infinity_Rulebook_With_Bookmarks.pdf?dl=0
and here
https://www.sendspace.com/file/eu0mcn

As a general advice, it can actually be good that you have no idea how to play, as long as you can "forget" all the things you've learned from your other wargames since Infinity is a very different beast rules and gameplay wise.

Infinity is about managing your Orders and stacking modifiers in your favour by various sneaky tactics.

Orders:
Orders are the lifeblood of Infinity and it's also where you find great tactical possibilities. An Order is a token that you use for activating a model.
Infinity works on model by model activation, however it echews from the "one use only" commonly found in other systems, instead you have the Orders which you use to activate your models. There are no limitations on how many times you can activate a model in a turn, so it's possible to use all your orders on one model.

A 200 point list should have about 8-10 Orders for maximum tactical flexibility, else you'll experience your opponents running circles around you.

Which brings me to my next point. All those models you have listed are quite expensive pointswise and difficult as well as illigal to run at low point costs.
Infinity use 2 point costs for a model, you have the normal point cost and then you have a special point cost called Support Weapon Cost (SWC) of which you have a vastly lesser amount. You get 1 Support Weapon Point pr 50 points you're playing, so in a 200 point list you'd have 4.

SWC are used to buy all the powerfull stuff and SWC pr. model range from 0 to 3.5 for the real badasses :) A very few models actually add to your SWP pool since if you take them as your army leaders, it's blatantly obvious who's your leader (something which is normally hidden from your opponent since the loss of your leader can be crippling for 1 turn).

The people talking about a Knight army, were talking about the Military Orders Sectorial Army. In Infinity you have 8 primary factions, often refered to as the Vanilla armies. Playing a faction "Vanilla" gives you access to ALL available models within that faction.

Those primary factions can then be split into Sectorial Armies.
A Sectorial Army represents an army within one of the subfactions and/or planets within the overall faction and they have greatly reduced access to the different models you can bring in an army. They make up for this by allowing you to bring more of them as well as reducing the SWC of some of the models. They also have access to the Link Team rule which is a sort of squadron made up of 3-5 models of the same kind that you can activate at the same time with 1 order.

A more practical example is that Vanilla PanO can take 1 Knight of the Holy Sepulchre, a Military Order list may take 2. On the flipside, MO have no access to the two TAGS you mentioned. Instead they have their own called the Seraph, which we're currently awaiting a mini for.

The two models you want in your army are both very expensive since they are awesome Heavy Infantry. Joan makes your entire army better and the Sepulchre have access to one of the sneakier tricks since he can either disguise himself as another model or make it look like there are 3 of him, 1 real and 2 fake targets to shoot at.

Using the current point costs (it will be a mix of the new core book as well as the old army builder since we're currently awaiting the revamped troop profiles of a lot of models). The two models you have, come down to 108 points, using 2 SWC.

The PanO content in Operation Icestorm comes out at around 170(+/- some) points depending on which loadout you take on the Father-Knight. All the point costs for the units found in Icestorm can be found in the core rulebook I linked to earlier.

Else just proxy something untill you find out what you want to start with buying :)

I hope I've been able to answer your questions satisfactory, else just ask again and I'll try and explain it better.

[White Tiger88]

Well after looking through things I think a vanilla list might Be the way to go since only 3 knight models stand out to me (the holy op man, saber er...iI mean Joan and the starter set father knight! So got any tips on building from there some what?? Also nomads get cat girls.........cheaters.....I want cat girls!
Also I think val is my merc hacker of choice........

[Quaade]

In 200 points you can only comfortable afford one of them if you want to maintain order efficiency and all 3 brings something different to the game.

Joan gives you extreme order efficience as a Lt. since with her inspirering leadership, your army never runs or hides from fire, unless you want them to, as well as being able to do Coordinated orders using her Lt. Order instead of a Command Token.

The Father-Knight is a beast with an insane profile and many interesting profiles to choose from, so he's a very versatile choice when it comes to army building.

The Sepulchre allows you to mind games with your opponent. You can downgrade his Holo 2 to Holo 1 and then set him up as if he's just a lowly Fussilier for example. One of the great "joys" for a PanO opponent is trying to count up how many points are missing from the table since PanO have a lot of Airborne Deployment and TO camo that can set up hidden. With Holo 1, you can make your opponent expect a lot of things you've left at home and play accordingly, which means you have a tactical advantage.
And with the Sepulchre gaining 4-4 movement like most other HI, it will be easier to fool people.

[vonDietdrich]

Unlike a lot of tabletop war games, you really don't need much more than the starter pack and a few supplemental models to have a full and functional Infinity army. If you do get Operation Ice Storm (which is a great deal and the models look fantastic if you're interested in either faction), you have 75% of a complete army already from a strategic standpoint.

The PanO army in O:IS is solid. You've got three infantry with very flexible equipment loadouts, a jump commando, several heavy infantry with strong weapons options, and three good lieutenant choices (The Orc, Nisses, and Father Knight). Multiple characters can get Hacking (which is important) if you load them out for it, and you can customize the army a great deal just by tweaking the equipment choices of your troops. The great thing about this army is that if you like any particular part of it (ambushing people with the jump commando, wading into melee with the Father Knight, pushing with a Fusilier spearhead led by your ORC) you can expand that aspect of the army by picking up just one or two models and substantially increasing your tactical toolbox.

At most, you'd need three models to have a complete army for anything but very large games. I normally play at 250, and like Quaade said, there's approximately 170 points worth in the PanO Ice Storm box. If you picked up Joan and Val, that'd put you around 250.

The nice thing about infinity is that there's not much equipment creep: only TAGs get anything approaching impunity towards small arms fire, and regular models are always going to be wary of rifles and shotguns and things that explode.

What this means is that models don't need super fancy gear to be effective on the table.. and there aren't very many models at all which are 'bad'. So if you like how a model looks or have a particular playstyle that you want to build towards, it's pretty easy to do. No strategy in Infinity is 'bad', but they can all be countered depending on what your opponent brings to the table and how the game is played out.

The flip side of this is that list building is a bit more counterintuitive: a lot of tabletop wargaming says 'pick the really big and important models you want to field first, and then fill out your list with chaff and supporting models'. Infinity list-building, on the other hand, always seems easier when you figure out a basic infantry + lieutenant + support setup and then use your remaining points budget for fancy models.

If you like Val's model, by all means, grab her and paint it. You have several good hacking options already (the Nisses and even Fusiliers as back-up hackers), though, so don't feel like an extra hacker is mandatory. If you do run her, the Nisses can be tasked with a different load-out (sniping and heavy machine guns are both always useful). PanO are great in that their equipment loadouts are extremely malleable and can be customized so that they same models can do a wide variety of combat tasks effectively.

I've been playing Infinity for a while, and when I'm building a list I only ask myself a couple of questions.

The mandatory ones:
'Do I have a good long-range shooter with a Multispectral Visor loadout to counter Camouflage, ODD, and snipers?'
'Do I have at least one thing that uses an area template?' (Grenades, flamethrowers, shotguns, chain guns, missile launchers..)
'Do I have enough Orders?' (8 is fine between 100-200 points, above 200 you need 10 unless you're a tricky veteran player)

And the optional ones:
'Do I need a Hacker?'
'Do I need a specialist for mission objectives?'
'Do I need a back-up Visor in case the first shooter dies unexpectedly?'

As long as I answer 'yes' to the first three, I find that I'm able to manage a solid fight against any list. The second set of questions is more of an assessment of your list. Not all lists need Hackers, but if you don't have a clear answer to Heavy Infantry and TAGs you should probably take one. I usually run two Visor marksmen because I often am unlucky and lose my main Visor shooter to something silly like being Crit on an ARO with a small chance to hit, and having a second one lets me play more aggressively.

Beyond that, you can build pretty much any list you want and do pretty well. Just remember that Infantry aren't throw-away chaff or cheerleaders that only give you free Orders: used properly they can win games.

Infinity on a basic level works very similarly to small unit tactics in real military engagements: if you're stuck on figuring out how to use your models, just take a look at how it goes down in actual small unit conflicts for a lot of helpful techniques.

[White Tiger88]

Alright i Drew this up for a 200pt starter list! What do you guys think decent? I would of liked to put Joan in but that can wait :P (Plus to go up to the next point level i can add a T.A.G or joan?:D)

Military Order Father-Knight 50
Spitfire

Orc Troop 40
Multi Rifle

Crusader Brethren 35
Multi Rifle + Light Flamethrower

Nisses 41
Multi-Sniper Rifle

Fusiler 10
Combi Rifle

Fusiler 10
Combi Rifle

Regular (Minelayer,Sensor) or Trauma-Doc 14


200pts,4 SWC, Regular 7

or

PANOCEANIA
───────────────────────────────────────────── ─────

GROUP 1 (Regular: 7/Irregular: 0):

NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 41)
JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 57)
CRUSADER MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (35)
COMMANDO AKAL HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (14)

4 SWC | 199 Points
ARMY CODE: eNpNxaERADAIA8BpEh+IgMVQHb5cVc2/BKgbRjOpk/Fy0lsxVlGfRWF8AU09DCY=

[Rattlernxt]

That second group will introduce you to the concept of being "order-starved". Your jump troops do not provide orders until they deploy to the table top whenever you deploy them, but they use their own orders. You are already at 7 orders which can make you feel like you can't do enough every turn (especially when you start taking casualties and losing those orders). If you drop one of the drop troops and add two cheaper models to get the extra orders. Maybe a couple more Fusiliers. Or you could drop Joan and pick up an ORC LT and for another troop (17 pts can get you a number of models).

Welcome to the Galactic Superpower!

[Archon]

If you are planning to purchase the OIS Box, than grap the Minis and make some games. Play through the tutorial missions and then read the N3 Book and make some more games. By doing this you will get a better feeling of how you build a list.

Both of your exampels have heavy hitters but they are lacking orders. In List 1 you should trade the crusader with a aklis and get one more fusi. Same to list 2 - besides take a look to the new profiles in the N3 book. Akalis have no longer the HMG option, they get spitfires now.

[White Tiger88]

So i just noticed the army builders i was using are all out of date greatly point wise and remade the list with the correct pts! So here is a legal version........... *Palm*

200/200pt, CCW:4\4, 8 Models!

Jeanne D'arc 50 ccw+1
Multi-Rifle,Nano Pulser,Pistol,Da ccw,LT

Father Knight 49 ccw+1.5
Missile Launcher,Breaker Pistol,Da CCW

Nisses 34 ccw+1.5
Multi-Sniper rifle

Akalis Commando 21
Boarding Shotgun

Trauma-Docs 14

Fusiler 10
Combi Rifle

Fusiler 10
Combi Rifle

Fusiler 12
Combi Rifle,Forward Obeserver,Deployable Repeater

[Rattlernxt]

Oh well that works out well.

[White Tiger88]

Oh well that works out well.

what...........?

[Quaade]

He means it's a decent list :)

The missile launcher might see little use as it has some attrocious range bands though.

[White Tiger88]

He means it's a decent list :)

The missile launcher might see little use as it has some attrocious range bands though.

Would another weapon be better on him? Also debating if the 12pt Lil guy is worth it.....

I could give him a Combi-Rifle and Nimbus Grenades or Combi Rifle and D-Charges :3

[euansmith]

I've not played Infinity (I love the design of the minis, but would have to get someone to assemble and paint them as they are too too tiny for my aging body); but the replies above have really peaked my interest. It is so good to see folks willing to take the time to help a noob out with clearly explained advice.

[Quaade]

You could give your Father-Knight the Spitfire profile if you're good on specialists, that way you've specialised weapons to cover all range bands.

You've got enough SWC for it since Joan adds 1 instead of costing one. So in a 200 point list with Joan as Lt. you'd have 5 SWC to play with instead of 4 :)


I've not played Infinity (I love the design of the minis, but would have to get someone to assemble and paint them as they are too too tiny for my aging body); but the replies above have really peaked my interest. It is so good to see folks willing to take the time to help a noob out with clearly explained advice.

Go for it! download the free rules, read them and then proxy some minis to see if it's something for you :)

[White Tiger88]

Wait she adds 1???? I thought the rulebook said she cost it... lol

[Chronowraith]

He means it's a decent list :)

The missile launcher might see little use as it has some attrocious range bands though.

Missile Launcher is fine. It was always intended to be a long-range support weapon like a sniper rifle. The new range bands simply reinforce that idea. You don't get penalized unless you are at 0-8 range band but you don't get any bonuses until you hit 24". Set them up high with a commanding view of important fire lanes and they are golden.

The bigger question is why put the missile launcher on the model that excels at CC. It's better used on one of the ranged specialists like Swiss Guard, Neoterra Bolts, etc.

- - - Updated - - -


I've not played Infinity (I love the design of the minis, but would have to get someone to assemble and paint them as they are too too tiny for my aging body); but the replies above have really peaked my interest. It is so good to see folks willing to take the time to help a noob out with clearly explained advice.

Dive on in! The newer miniatures are slightly larger in size and easy to piece together. The older miniatures are the ones with frustrating antennae and... unclear connection points. So try and stick to minis that have been released since May/June of 2014 and you will be golden.

The official Infinity forums are a great place to go to ask rules questions too. Especially since CB won't be posting an N3 FAQ until sometime in January.

[White Tiger88]

Alright so something like this i guess? Takes me down to 7 from 8 Activation's but i gain a hacker,Spitfire and Grenade Launcher.

200/200 CCW:5\5

Jeanne D'arc 50 ccw:+1
Multi-Rifle,Nano Pulser,Pistol,Da ccw,LT

Father Knight 50 ccw:2
Spitfire,Breaker Pistol,Da CCW

Nisses 34 ccw:1.5
Multi-Sniper rifle

Akalis Commando 28 ccw:0.5
Hacker,Combi Rifle

Fusiler 10
Combi Rifle

Fusiler 10
Combi Rifle

Fusiler 18
Combi Rifle + Lightgrenade Launcher

[Quaade]

Looks good, you have specialists and you're able to deal with multiple threat ranges with varied efficiency.

And with Joan you can get multiple models across the field fast, cementing your board presence easily.