Upgrading Unique Characters

[bob9801]

I tried searching the forums but I didn't see anything pertaining to this.
What I am specifily looking at doing is Colonel Straken with a bolter and powerfist. My first thought was "he becomes the company commander, who can be upgraded as listed." then I was told "No, Colonel Straken is Colonel Straken. Not the company comander." I have not seen anything in the rules either way but I may have missed it. Does anyone have a rule either way?

[Nabterayl]

I tried searching the forums but I didn't see anything pertaining to this.
What I am specifily looking at doing is Colonel Straken with a bolter and powerfist. My first thought was "he becomes the company commander, who can be upgraded as listed." then I was told "No, Colonel Straken is Colonel Straken. Not the company comander." I have not seen anything in the rules either way but I may have missed it. Does anyone have a rule either way?
Can't be done. Take a look at page 91 more closely: "One Company Command Squad in your army may replace its Company Commander with Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken."

He doesn't become the company commander. In fact, he isn't the company commander, or even a company commander. Instead, he replaces the company commander.

In other words, what technically happens is this:
You purchase a company command squad. You start kitting it out with upgrades, advisors, etc. Let's say you don't purchase any advisors. At this point your CCS consists of four veterans and one company commander, kitted out with the various upgrades you've purchased.
At the bottom of the company command squad entry is a series of upgrade characters. You decide to purchase Colonel Straken. At this point your CCS consists of four veterans and one company commander and Colonel Straken.
Colonel Straken replaces your company commander. At this point your CCS consists of four veterans and Colonel Straken.
You start to play.
You still buy the company commander; Colonel Straken just sidelines him. Since Straken neither is the company commander nor has any upgrade options, he comes as is. You could still buy a power fist and a bolter for your company commander, but that would be silly, because you'd be spending points on a model that was going to get replaced.

[bob9801]

Ok. I guess that makes sense. He does have an entirely different entry with everything that he has listed there. I was just hoping. :)

[TSINI]

Yeah, as above you cannot upgrade "special characters" unless they have any options to in their personal slot.

This is one thing i would have liked to see GW do this time around though. special characters with some basic weapon options, would be much more "convert you own commander" friendly - giving you the same special rules as these unique characters.

[andrewm9]

Besides Straken already has the equivalent of a chainfist that strikes on his initiative. How cool is that? He is after all Strength 6, ignores armor saves, and has +2d6 armor penetration in close combat. With his plasma pistol, he is arguably better in shooting than if he used a bolter. All that and he has furious charge. Straken is the Man and he is fairly cheap.

[greenstuff777]

YOU CANNOT UPGRADE UNIQUE CHARACTERS PERIOD!! It states this in Straken and all unique characters rules and in the main rule book.

[andrewm9]

YOU CANNOT UPGRADE UNIQUE CHARACTERS PERIOD!! It states this in Straken and all unique characters rules and in the main rule book.

Without trying to be purely argumentative, thats not entirely true. Marneus Calgar has an upgrade you can take as does Belial, Master of the Deathwing (well sort of) and Bjorn the Fell-handed too. Granted they are the exception rather then the rule. I think there are a handful of others as well.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, this has nothing to do with unique characters. It has to do with the unit entry in the army list. Straken can't be upgraded because his unit entry includes no upgrade options. The original question was whether Straken is unusual in that he is also a company commander and therefore can take advantage of the upgrade options in that unit entry.

The answer is no, because Straken isn't also a company commander, and therefore the premise of the argument is false. Whether or not Straken is a unique character has nothing to do with it.

[andrewm9]

Yeah, this has nothing to do with unique characters. It has to do with the unit entry in the army list. Straken can't be upgraded because his unit entry includes no upgrade options. The original question was whether Straken is unusual in that he is also a company commander and therefore can take advantage of the upgrade options in that unit entry.

The answer is no, because Straken isn't also a company commander, and therefore the premise of the argument is false. Whether or not Straken is a unique character has nothing to do with it.

You're right of course, but another poster stated that you could not upgrade any period on any unique character. I just countered. Straken has no upgrades to take (as he himself is an upgrade) or it would say so in his description. I also pointed out that Straken does not need a powerfist thanks his cool rules or a bolter.

[david5th]

Unless they that options in their listings, you can't change/upgrade unique characters.

[Nabterayl]

Unless the option is in their listings, you can't upgrade anything :p

[sebi81]

that´s completely right for the 4th and 5th edition codizes... dark eldar and necrons buy their equipment still in the wargear section.

[Nabterayl]

Yes, but even dark eldar and necrons (and tau) say in the unit entry whether a unit has access to the armory or not.

[Duke]

Nab has it right... unless it says so you can't add anything. The codecies mentioned are an exception, but can only take what they allow in their enteries.

Duke

[weeble1000]

Yeah, as above you cannot upgrade "special characters" unless they have any options to in their personal slot.

This is one thing i would have liked to see GW do this time around though. special characters with some basic weapon options, would be much more "convert you own commander" friendly - giving you the same special rules as these unique characters.

GW could go further and simply have the various special rules be upgrades for certain models. Then you could completely customize your commander and nobody would be complaining about how Col. Straken shouldn't be leading an army of Cadian Shock Troops. Heck, they could still keep special characters in the books, but list them in a sort of 'recommended build' capacity, i.e. Col. Straken is a Company Commander that has purchased these special rules and this wargear. Although I suppose this method would make the special characters seem less "special." But would that be bad for the game? I don't think it would be.

[AirHorse]

well they alread encourage the whole "counts as" thing so you can have which ever character you want rules wise represented in your army in an appropriate model without any issues :)

I think its done perfect as it is, special characters have almost no options so you have to take it all even if you only want some. Leave the customistion to the generic characters or they would disapear from the game.

[tjkopena]

Without trying to be purely argumentative, thats not entirely true. Marneus Calgar has an upgrade you can take as does Belial, Master of the Deathwing (well sort of) and Bjorn the Fell-handed too. Granted they are the exception rather then the rule. I think there are a handful of others as well.

Khan does as well, his bike.

[AirHorse]

well the upgrade of unique characters has nothing to do with them being unique or not, its purely down to the entry they have. Its just the same as any other unit, if there are options there you can take them, if not well then you dont have any choice about how the unit must be set up :)