So why do you own a gun?

[YorkNecromancer]

I'm from the UK. Over here, we have some of the most stringent gun laws in the world. Basically, if you want a gun in this country? You can't have one. Not ever. There are exceptions - shotguns with a magazine capacity of three bullets or less (shotguns have to be kept locked and bolted to a load bearing wall at all times, ammunition has to be kept in a locked safe in a separate room; I have farmer friends who tell me these things), or else black powder weapons like muskets. But that's it. Anything else is utterly illegal.

Do we have shootings? Sure. There are illegal guns all over the place. In the 90's, Manchester (a famous industrial city in the North of the country which is kind of the number two city in England after London) had so many, it was known as 'Gunchester'.

But overall, guns are just a thing we don't do. Even our police are generally unarmed. Yeah, there's SO19, the rapid response firearms unit (with a response time of 15 minutes anywhere in the country), and the number of Tasers on the street has gone up, but generally we don't like the idea of an armed constabulary and honestly? I can't see that ever changing.

In the UK, there is a distrust of firearms that borders on an article of faith. Yeah, we all love action films, and you always get some people clamouring to arm our police, but as a people? We kind of despise the idea of free access to guns. To put it into context, saying 'I own a gun' is roughly equivalent here to saying 'I own a large stockpile if IEDs'; it's a frightening, alien idea. The questions which immediately come to mind are: why? And also, why? In the same way as owning a large stockpile of IEDs is insane, well - that's kind of the British attitude towards guns. Like I say, this is only a generality, but it's got precedent in law here: if you carry something which might even looks like a gun (say a NERF wrapped in a plastic carrier bag) you could be sent away for a five year stretch. (Long story: guy held up banks with a tire iron, thought he wouldn't get the sentence for armed robbery because it wasn't a real gun - turned out he was wrong.)

Anyway: that's my nation's general position. We dislike guns.

So here's the thing. There's been lots of threads here that are pro-gun/anti-gun, etc... I'm not interested in that. Not at all. This is not the 'guns are bad/good' thread. This is the 'hey: here's my personal opinion here' thread.

If you own a gun, why? I'm not trolling, I'm not going to call you stupid or say you're wrong. I'm not going to demand you defend yourself. I'm genuinely, honestly curious. And every time I've asked in the past, the thread has collapsed into the usual unpleasantness. I'd like to avoid that. Why did you come to the beliefs you did? What shaped your opinions on firearms? Would you give them up? If yes, why? If no, why not? Is your life better for having weapons in it?

Not a discussion of the ethics, or the politics, or any of the 'big picture' issues. Just the purely personal, and in more depth than just 'I like 'em.' - just because you like fatty foods, doesn't mean you should eat them when you're 700 pounds overweight, you know? There's got to be more to it than 'I like 'em', surely?

Basically: why? I am honestly curious to know.

[Deadlift]

Back in the UK I had a shotgun licence (some years ago) as did my stepfather. Mostly clay pigeon but did a bit of pigeon and rabbits too. I lived in Devon so shooting in a rural area was plentiful with farmers permission. I sold my guns quite some time ago and didn't renew my licence. I did enjoy shooting but I decided I didn't want guns in the house, even in the required cabinet when the kids came along.
Hunting seems to be a big thing here in Canada, but not for me.

[Wolfshade]

A friend of mine has a single shot rifle that he uses to hunt deer.

[DWest]

Living in the Midwest of the USA, I can give a good, one-word explanation for why you would want to own a gun: Coyote. For those of you who aren't familiar with the animal, think a golden retriever crossed with a forum troll, then kept hungry enough to want to take a bite out of anything, even a weapon-bearing human 4x its size. They don't tend to show up within actual city limits (although we do get raccoons that I'm pretty sure could shrug off bolter fire, but that's another story), but my dad's house is less than 10 miles away, and he hears coyotes and sees tracks on a regular basis. So if I were to be living on a property like that, I would consider a decent gun to be a necessary purchase. However, a shotgun similar to what York described as legal for UK would be sufficient for that purpose.

But that's just the practical side of things. I personally was given a .270 rifle from my grandfather, and also would inherit 2 shotguns and 3 more working rifles from my father, and given the ability to keep them properly, I would probably keep most of them, but for reasons other than to shoot; one of the shotguns for example was made by my great-great uncle (as in, start with steel bar stock and a billet of wood, and make all the workings from scratch). The historical value of the items makes them worth keeping, above and beyond their status as a weapon.

[Anakzar]

The reason I own guns is simply, I Hunt. Mostly I carry a 30-30 in hand and a .22 pistol in my pack while following my 6 hounds. We hunt for bobcat, grey fox and mtn lion. Also put in for deer and elk tags every year as does my dad. Most years we get drawn for at least one elk and two deer. We rarely need to buy meat from the supermarket.

I am not into the shooting for the sake of shooting and don't target practice. The ammo is too expensive... and frankly I have never had a problem hitting what I aim at. Took a cow elk at just under 100 yards this year and a nice buck white-tailed at 200 yards those two guns will likely sit in the gun case until next year's elk and deer season.

[lobster-overlord]

My wife's Father and Step father (yes, that means I technically have two Mothers-in-Law as well....) both have guns. One is a gun nut, and the other a nut with a gun. The step dad is a retired police officer, and he collects guns. He has a hand made Viet cong shotgun, several police weapons and a hand full of others, along with enough ammo to survive well into the Zombie Apoc. But he likes guns, and collects different styles and calibres. Do I under stand it? no. Now, the father, the nut with a gun, does go hunting and so he has a couple of rifles, but he's also the magistrate for the county where he lives in rural Tennessee. Does he need the handguns? no, but he has some.

One has offered me weapons, to which I have refused, as I don't hunt, I don't believe in the idea of a zombie apoc, and I don't feel as a family, we need to shoot the animals on our property (yet). Plus my kids are so highstrung, they wouldn't be able to keep hands off.

Personally, I am a huge fan of the UK gun laws and wish we had more things like that. Our 2nd amendment was created as a direct response to the British Empire's occupation of the colonies and our need to get out from under your thumb. Now, I do feel that both of these guys have the intent at heart behind why they have them... guns for protection of their family, friends and freedom. Is there a threat? No. DO we need a "well regulated Militia"? No, we have a top notch volunteer army. Could we ever do away with personal possession and ownership of arms in the US. Not in a million years. It wasn't a well thought out plan on the part of our constitution I think.

Owning them for hunting, and the like it certainly the only reason why I see that people should need to have them. But you will always have illegals and you will always have the nuts with guns.

[DarkLink]

Shooting is a ton fun. They're mostly like sports cars, you can dislike people who drive them for the low gas mileage all you want, but when it's you behind the wheel you can't help but admit it's pretty awesome.

When I was in high school, my friends and I would periodically go trap shooting at the range, so my parents got me a Remington 870 for that. Still go occasionally, in fact when one of us got married last summer the first order of business in the bachelor party was to drive up to some BLM land and shoot little clay pigeons out of the sky. It's hard to describe how fun trap shooting is unless you've done it before.

I own a Springfield XD, unfortunately not a nicer XDm due to California's draconian gun laws, but it's still fun to shoot. Handguns are a lot of fun, and until you've fired one you simply can't appreciate how much skill it takes to shoot well with one.

My dad gave me an old Ruger 10/22 he had basically lying around, which is great for just plinking. Only problem is ammo is in huge demand right now, and it's basically impossible to find .22LR. It's also not exactly the most accurate of rifles, at best it'll shoot maybe an 8" group at 100 yards. I wouldn't mind getting a higher quality .22 or maybe a .17HMR for precision shooting at shorter ranges.

I would love to get an AR-15, but California's gun laws mean it has to have some stupid modifications. It would be like a guy who loves cars buying a Lamborgini that had an engine swap with a Prius. Kinda defeats the point. If I ever got into hunting I would get a bolt action of some sort as well, probably, though large caliber rifles like the AR-10 are becoming more common in that regard. The AR-15/10 platform is as accurate as any bolt action rifle. Not the biggest fan of the AR-15's control group, though. Nothing's ambidextrous, the charging handle couldn't be placed more awkwardly, etc, so I would probably look at some of the alternatives to the AR-15 as well.

[DarkLink]

Oh, I also got to pull the whole cleaning the shotgun bit when my little sister's boyfriend picked her up for prom.


Not a discussion of the ethics, or the politics, or any of the 'big picture' issues. Just the purely personal, and in more depth than just 'I like 'em.' - just because you like fatty foods, doesn't mean you should eat them when you're 700 pounds overweight, you know?

You say you're trying to avoid any unpleasant political discussion, but then you end with the implied accusation that there's something wrong with owning firearms and that it's irresponsible and unhealthy. That kinda defeats the point, right?


Edit: also, the idea that fatty foods are unhealthy is outdated. Anything that isn't a transfat is perfectly healthy, especially when standard practice for making foods "low fat" is to replace the fat with sugar. Fatty foods like red meats have been stigmatized by either bad or incomplete science, when more recent developments have shown that saturated fats are not the devil people thought they used to be. Though, if your idea of red meat is a big mac, then I guess you're still correct, even if it's not really the fat in the big mac per se that makes it so unhealthy.

[eldargal]

For shooting and consuming the flesh of birds.
http://40.media.tumblr.com/62241e0ee79d7677b669d176f1f486cc/tumblr_n0pgq14Vjb1qa6demo1_1280.jpg

And sometimes other things, shot a boar in Spain once. Sometimes rabbits though we don't see many around here for some reason. Maybe because we killed and ate most of them.

[Wolfshade]

Oh and my mother-in-law owns a hand gun of some description as she lives in south africa and something to do with in case her husband uses the bathroom at night...

[Psychosplodge]

I've got an air rifle, though can't remember last time I fired it as its a pain in the arse digging a backboard out the garage to shoot at.
I've fired .22 rifle, MP5, SA80 (both the fully auto and cadet versions), and some sort of 9mm pistol and its quite fun, but I'm not sure I'd be bothered about owning one.
It would be nice if there was more opportunity to go somewhere and have a go at shooting in the UK, but I imagine it's be a stupid price.

[BeardMonk]

Iv had course to handle firearms both through work, cadets, as cadet instructor and through when visiting friends in Cananda and Poland.

Im not frightened of firearms. They are a tool which can be used for a range of uses. Some fun (target shooting, hunting), some useful (home defence, protection against wild animals), some ill. I'm more frightened of the types of PEOPLE that are allowed weapons. Especially in the US/Canada where there is the RIGHT to bare arms. But thier history and constitution is different to the UK.

[Denzark]

Actually I think Yorkie's initial post has a couple of factual errors.

Firstly, the UK Police can grant either a Shotgun Certificate (SGC) or a Firearms Certifcate (FAC). The SGC as he says, allows a maximum of 3-shot capability.

The FAC, dependant on what is requested, can cover short barrelled ie pistols, or long barrelled. Interestingly a .44 magnum pistol falls under the rifle certificate because of length of barrel. Rifle permits can be both in .22 or full bore, the requirements include having the local police firearms people inspect your house in person, to ensure your gun cabinet is to the required standards. To say only shotguns are lawful, is erroneous. My friend is looking at purchasing legally, a semi-auto .22 20 round capacity rifle that looks to all intents and purposes, like an M4. Actually this surprised me that such a thing could be done legally but there you go.

Secondly, I don't think it right at all to say the country as a whole dislikes guns. Actually whole swathes of the country are ambivalent to guns. Yes we find it unusual when we see them, especially on police, but in rural areas it is a very normal thing.

There are parts of the country that do actively dislike and despise guns for sure. I see it as a more urban-liberal socialist thing, who can't conceive that actually, a gun is a piece of sporting equipment or a tool. I have had an amusing ongoing argument with a friend's missus who won't let her kids have toy guns.

'No guns?'
'No, they're evil'.
'But guns aren't evil, people misusing them are evil'.
'No I won't have them in the house'.
'Hmm you let them hit each other with toy lightsabres - is getting a limb cleaved off and then instantly cauterised better than being shot then?'
'Well that's different'
'Oh yeah for sure. OK, so your youngest at the age of 7, you're letting him get into 40k?'
'Well its just toy soldiers'
'Do you know what his nurgle dameons represent?'
'No but its got to be better than guns'
'Right let me explain the Chaos Pantheon to you...'

[Mr Mystery]

Pretty much my understanding, though the laws just keep getting tighter.

If I'm right in thinking, after Dunblane handguns had to be kept at a licensed gun club, under lock and key.

I have Nerf guns, but that's it. Don't have anywhere to muck about with an air rifle, and no real desire.

UK gun crimes are odd though. Again, I might be wrong, but as far as I recall even threatening to shoot someone, even if you were butt nekkid at the time with nowhere to stash a firearm about your person - that's considered a gun crime. It makes our figures look somewhat misleading if you don't look into them properly.

Overall, I don't think we're a less violent society than any other. It's just without any dakka, physical violence is more stabbings, bottlings, glassings etc. Arguably less life threatening, but still horrifying all the same.

[Darren Richardson]

UK gun crimes are odd though. Again, I might be wrong, but as far as I recall even threatening to shoot someone, even if you were butt nekkid at the time with nowhere to stash a firearm about your person - that's considered a gun crime. It makes our figures look somewhat misleading if you don't look into them properly.

yeah I somewhat agree with this, our gun crimes statisics here in the UK do throw up some oddities, mostly though ANY crime involving a gun here tends to get mass coverage on the local news or at least in mass market papers, and often if shots have been fired, it makes national news very quickly, but by and large it's much smaller then we all think...


Overall, I don't think we're a less violent society than any other. It's just without any dakka, physical violence is more stabbings, bottlings, glassings etc. Arguably less life threatening, but still horrifying all the same.

Yeah, here in the UK we have a more pronunced need for a more personal one (or ten) to one up close need for violance, rather then the less personal shoot them type of crime, I imagine this is more from the fact we had soooo many docks years ago, where such violance was more likely to happen due to smugeling and such.

Me personally, I don't want to own a gun, nor do I need one, I understand Farmers and isolated manors needing them, and if properly regulated, then by all means let them have them, but nowhere in a city unless you are in law enforcement or security services (such as army etc) would you need a gun, nor should you have one.

But that is of course, MHO.

[Morgrim]

I don't own a gun. I live in an Australian city and thus have no need for one. I have handled them before though since my family comes from farming areas. Most farms have at least one rifle for pest control: foxes, rabbits, cats and ringneck parrots mostly. (Although you have to be an incredibly good shot to hit the parrots, for many shooting at them is for deterrence it seems.) Some farms might have a shotgun for mice plagues (and to increase the chances of hitting the parrots). Handguns are seen as useless; if the animal is fast enough to make a rifle impractical, it's too big for a handgun to be effective.

While I can use a gun to make noise to scare off parrots as effectively as anyone else, even if I was living on a farm I wouldn't be holding a gun licence. Mostly because extensive testing as shown that I am a terrible, terrible shot. So I get the job of launching the clay pigeons/operating the spotlight when foxing/being the retriever because the sheep dogs don't understand 'fetch'.

[swoods]

I fired an air rifle once. I couldn't hit the side of a barn door! Guns frighten me (I'm petrified of loud, sharp noises-yeah I'm a wuss!). It's a shame as I'd love to have a go at hunting for rabbit, deer, boar, but I'm just not cut out for it.

[40kGamer]

Simple for me, I grew up with guns. I had learned to shoot rifles and shotguns by the age of 10... also compound bows, crossbows and a variety of other exotic weapons. And even though I haven't fired a gun in a couple decades I can not even imagine living without them.

[Deadlift]

Anyone remember the "Black Widow" catapult with the steel ball bearings. I got given one when I was a kid and promptly destroyed our patio windows. Loads of fun :D and quite lethal.

[silashand]

Zombie Apocalypse... ;)

Seriously though I own them because they are fun to shoot. I used to hunt when I was growing up, but as I get older I can't be bothered to haul an 800lb elk out of the woods or sit in a freezing duck blind at Zero Dark Thirty anymore. I'd rather just hunt at the grocery store :). However, I still enjoy the guns themselves which is mainly why I still have them. I do believe it is a person's right to be able to protect themselves and their loved ones when needed and guns are useful in that regard. I would rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it.

As for crime stats, I read a recent article that noted approximately 30% of home invasions in the US happen when the owners are at home. In the UK it is over 50%. I don't know the reason, but I suspect that the potential for a dangerous encounter with an armed defender is probably part of it. But then that hasn't been studied very well so who knows. I prefer to believe that interpretation because it makes sense to me. I know if I catch someone invading my home the odds are good they will leave with a few additional holes they didn't arrive with. I know some people think nothing is worth killing others over, but I don't believe that. I worked my life for what I have and to have someone come in and just take it is like taking a part of my life away. Sure the possessions can maybe be replaced, but the feeling of being violated is indescribable. My ex came home a few years ago to find an intruder had just left out her bedroom window, all while her 10 and 12 year old sons had been in the house by themselves. To say that frightened her and myself is an understatement.

I suppose you could also list all the typical "protection from tyranny" arguments, but I am not certain that will ever happen so who knows. As I said for me I just like them. Treated with proper respect they are no more dangerous than any other tool IMO. My brother has been a master carpenter for 20+ years and has done far more damage to himself with a nailgun than with a firearm :).

Anyway, JMO...

Oh, I'm also a WWII/Cold War history buff so I like collecting weapons from that era. So far I have all the Mosin-Nagant variants, an Arisaka Type 99, and a few others. Still trying to find a good Arisaka Type 2 Paratrooper Rifle, but they are way expensive and I have yet to have the money when one has come up that I like. Ah well, same as everything else I guess :)

[DarkLink]

Owning an M1 Garand would be pretty cool, I think.



Gun crime in the US is kind of odd, too, as it's very isolated into certain communities. I can't really find any good studies on it, though, since it's not a political subtopic. Democrats don't care because and findings linking crime to social inequality doesn't fit an anti-gun agenda, and Republicans don't care so long as Democrats don't bring it up as an anti-gun item. Federal agencies like the FBI don't really have data that granulated, and I'm not going to tabulate data myself from the 17,000 local police agencies. I strongly suspect that gun crime drops off drastically as you leave certain low income areas, since that was the trend with the drug related violent crime spike in the 80's.

[40kGamer]

Gun crime in the US is kind of odd, too, as it's very isolated into certain communities. I can't really find any good studies on it, though, since it's not a political subtopic. Democrats don't care because and findings linking crime to social inequality doesn't fit an anti-gun agenda, and Republicans don't care so long as Democrats don't bring it up as an anti-gun item. Federal agencies like the FBI don't really have data that granulated, and I'm not going to tabulate data myself from the 17,000 local police agencies. I strongly suspect that gun crime drops off drastically as you leave certain low income areas, since that was the trend with the drug related violent crime spike in the 80's.

It is weird. In my home area of West Virginia basically everyone owns a gun but gun violence is almost nonexistent. Which is why there are so many of us who see absolutely no link between gun ownership and gun violence. If I could pick a fun gun to own it would probably be an AK-47... especially since I don't think the tripod mounted 50 cal's are legal...

[silashand]

especially since I don't think the tripod mounted 50 cal's are legal...

For US made machine guns they are if they were made before 1986 :). Unfortunately you are likely to spend tens of thousands to buy one from a collector willing to sell it to you. For foreign full auto weapons they were only allowed to be registered in the US for 2 years after WWII and then again for a short period in the late 1960's. Thus there are VERY few foreign full auto weapons in the USA (available to civilians that is). I looked into getting a WWII German STG-44 Sturmgewehr (the very first assault rifle ever). However, they currently are running around $60K if you can find one for sale. I suspect the Browning .50 cals are probably about as expensive if not more. Heck, a semi-auto Barrett .50 runs $12K.

Besides, I don't think most people would want to bother with the paperwork to own one anyway. Lot of regulation for something that isn't that much more fun than any other firearm.

[DWest]

They are if they were made before 1986 :). Unfortunately you are likely to spend tens of thousands to buy one from a collector willing to sell it to you...
And tens of thousands more on a round to fire from it :rolleyes: Seriously though, I haven't fired a gun in 10 years, because the sport of shooting is one of those hobbies that makes GW prices look reasonable by comparison.

[silashand]

And tens of thousands more on a round to fire from it :rolleyes: Seriously though, I haven't fired a gun in 10 years, because the sport of shooting is one of those hobbies that makes GW prices look reasonable by comparison.

You obviously don't play golf... :D

Ammo costs would definitely be prohibitive. .50 cal rounds are upwards of $2.50 each. Yeah, that makes me want to run out to the range and fire off a couple thousand rounds... not.

[Mr Mystery]

With regard to hunting, if you ain't gonna eat it, why bother shooting it?

Pics of goons gloating over the cooling corpse of 'big game' they so bravely shot from half a mile away sicken me.

Feel a need to kill a Lion to prove yourself? Go grab a spear, or it doesn't count you wuss.

[Necron2.0]

I was born and raised in Alaska, USA. If you're not familiar with where that is, it is way north - adjacent to the Yukon Territory of Canada. Up there EVERYBODY owns a gun, mostly because of wild animals. For me growing up, a gun and a fixed-blade knife were everyday tools. Learning to shoot was just something everybody did, boys and girls. Where I went to school, it was unusual but not alarming to see teens bringing guns to school - there was a gun range IN the school. I got my first gun for Christmas as a teenager. It was a pump action 22, strictly for target practice. For me, shooting carries no more thrill nor moral ramification than playing a game of darts. Of course, darts are better - ammo is reusable and no clean-up.

I still own that 22. I also own an old lever action Winchester. I think it is a 30-30. The date stamped on it is 1868. It is a family heirloom.

Beyond that, I have purchased two Model 1911a 45 cal. pistols. These were the first guns I ever purchased. I bought them when I moved to the 6th largest city in US, and learned through personal experience that the city is the home invasion capital of America (my home got broken into once, my neighbor down the road was murdered, and another neighbor's house had the front door kicked in and her home robbed in broad daylight). I bought the two 45's for a very specific reason - to kill people (bad people, to be precise). I train with them routinely. The image below is from a training exercise where the range master shouts "DRAW" and you're supposed to draw and fire three killing shots as quickly as possible, at a target 50 feet (or ~15 meters) away.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/346/5/3/74702_385550874814555_1505580953_n_by_necron2_0-d89l7fy.jpg

I specifically chose to own the 45 because its slug is slow and heavy, making collateral damage something unlikely. It also packs quite a wallop. It will put a crack-head down, no matter how messed up he is, with enough damage inflicted that he will certainly die before he can stand up again - from shock if nothing else.

I should point out here that I live in an upper-middle class neighborhood, so it's not a simple matter of just moving.

[silashand]

With regard to hunting, if you ain't gonna eat it, why bother shooting it?

Wild game is quite delicious. I have no problem with people hunting it if they eat it. I don't believe in hunting solely for trophies, though I don't mind people taking trophies as long as they eat the actual meat as well.

[DWest]

Ammo costs would definitely be prohibitive. .50 cal rounds are upwards of $2.50 each.
Huh, that's actually *lower* than I was expecting.

[DarkLink]

Huh, that's actually *lower* than I was expecting.

It is mass produced by the military, so it's not overly expensive. But considering that.a .50 rifle itself could cost you $10,000+ on its own, plus another few thousand for a quality scope...

[silashand]

Huh, that's actually *lower* than I was expecting.

The ma deuce fires 450-600 rounds per minute. Figure that into how much a little fun would cost you :)

[DWest]

The ma deuce fires 450-600 rounds per minute. Figure that into how much a little fun would cost you :)
Oh yeah, I'm familiar with the M2's fire rate. I think the problem is, I was looking at ammo for say my .270, which is on sale for the low, low price of $32.99 a box, which works out to be 1.65 per round, and extrapolating up based on mass of bullet, case, and powder.

Funny story with firing rates- we had (maybe still do, not sure if it ever got sold or scrapped because of this) a WWII training rifle of some sort, that feeds .22 short from a spring-loaded tube in the stock, capacity of 15 rounds. Dad thought it would be a good gun to teach me the basics of shooting, except something wore out in the mechanism, such that when I pulled the trigger, there was this long "PFFFFT!" noise, and all 15 rounds went through in one shot. Made for a pretty short learning experience, when we only had 20 rounds on hand at the time.

[Mr Mystery]

Wild game is quite delicious. I have no problem with people hunting it if they eat it. I don't believe in hunting solely for trophies, though I don't mind people taking trophies as long as they eat the actual meat as well.

Yup.

[eldargal]

I think trophy hunting is acceptable under certain circumstances. Say there needs to be a water buffalo or even elephant cull in South Africa, why not help offset the cost/generate funds for conservation by selling licenses to foreigners to pay thousands of dollars for a three day chance at shooting a critter? I don't think that is necessarily a problem so long as the professional, independent conservation advice requires said cull.

[Morgrim]

Or if it is a feral animal, in which case shoot as many trophies as you please. *eyes the feral pigs and foxes over here*

Although unless the animal is in an area with a significant amount of scavengers, it's still probably a good thing to have a plan for the carcass. So leaving a large animal in africa is probably okay given the number of carnivores that would be happy to clean it up, but there are parts of the USA where there are only medium sized birds and coyote. That's probably not the best thing for the ecosystem. I know that leaving a feral pig carcass is here. Unless it is crocodile territory and near water of course.

[eldargal]

Also foxes here.>< Should be able to eat feral pigs if you treat them like boar and remove any fat and skin that could have bugs burrowed in.

[Haighus]

UK prohibited firearms (just for clarity):
Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
i)
any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be
successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));
ii)
any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22
rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));
iii)
any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than
60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a
firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba));
iv)
any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or
chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in
length or is less than 40 inches in length overall (section 5(1)(ac));
v)
any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rimfire
cartridges or a muzzle-loading revolver gun (section 5(1)(ad));
20
Guide on Firearms Licensing Law
vi)
any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a
launcher or mortar designed for line-throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signaling
apparatus (section 5(1)(ae));
vii)
any air rifle, air gun or air pistol that uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a
self-contained gas cartridge system (section 5(1)(af));
viii)
any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any
noxious liquid, gas or other thing (section 5(1)(b));
ix)
any cartridge with a bullet designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any
ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as is
mentioned in (viii) above and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description,
any grenade, bomb or other like missile, or rocket or shell designed to explode as
aforesaid (section 5(1)(c));
x)
any firearm which is disguised as another object (section 5(1A)(a));
xi)
any rocket or ammunition not falling within (ix) above which consists of, or incorporates,
a missile designed to explode on or immediately before impact and is for military use
(section 5(1A)(b));
xii)
any launcher or other projecting apparatus not falling within (vi) above which is
designed to be used with any rocket or ammunition falling within (xi) above or with
ammunition which would fall within that paragraph but for it being ammunition falling
within (ix) above (section 5(1A)(c));
xiii)
any ammunition for military use which consists of, or incorporates, a missile designed
so that a substance contained in the missile will ignite on or immediately before impact
(section 5(1A)(d));
xiv)
any ammunition for military use which consists of or incorporates a missile designed,
on account of its having a jacket and hard-core, to penetrate armour plating, armour
screening or body armour (section 5(1A)(e));
xv)
any ammunition which incorporates a missile designed or adapted to expand on
impact (section 5(1A)(f));
xvi)
anything which is designed to be projected as a missile from any weapon and is
designed to be, or has been incorporated in, any ammunition falling within any of the
preceding paragraphs (see xiii, xiv and xv above); or any ammunition which would fall
within any of those paragraphs but for it being specified at (ix) above (section 5(1A)(g)).

Essentially, you can't own a pistol, a an automatic weapon, or a semi auto weapon with a calibre larger than .22, with a couple of exceptions.

Note that shotguns have different restrictions usually and are generally more lax than firearms. Also air weapons are les restricted (and below a certain power need no licence).

[Erik Setzer]

I considered getting a gun once for personal protection. And maybe for taking to the range to enjoy some marksmanship with friends.

I didn't get one, though, so let me break with the question of the topic and answer why I *don't* own a gun and never will. Though it's kind of hard to explain.

To put it bluntly, my brain has a LOT of weird quirks to it. One of those is that I don't seem to recognize when I'm doing something dangerous at times. Intellectually, I'll know it's dangerous, and a bad idea, but that signal just never "gets out there." I know I shouldn't work an X-Acto knife toward my fingers or hands, but I do it all the time (which means even when I don't slice my fingers open, I end up with small slices in my fingers that you can see if you look close). I know that you probably shouldn't pour lighter fluid on coals that might still be lit just to get the fire going again, but, well, I've done that a number of times (and kept my eyebrows, somehow). I'm just not thinking of those things in the moment. When a friend handed me what I'm pretty sure was actually just an airsoft gun or something like that (and it was broken anyway), I was looking at it and not even thinking about where I was pointing it or keeping my finger off the trigger.

So, yeah, I don't own a gun. I also don't light grills with other people (or animals) close by, I don't work on models around other people, and I don't do a lot of other things. I have no other kind of weapon in my home, except for a replica war hammer which actually could be wielded as a weapon, and I have that just because I got one as a trophy for a 40K tournament I won. (The one I have now is actually a replacement... long story, but the original was lost in a fire, and my best friend remembered me telling her about it and got me a replacement for my birthday... which I didn't know until I got it home and opened it, after carrying a weapon across half of town on public transit.)


On a side note, I do have to say that it was interesting when the local sheriff came to a meeting and told the people there that he felt everyone has a right to a firearm and people probably should have a decent weapon of some kind, in case the government turns against them and uses either the military or even the police against them. Some people might find that a strange or funny idea, but when you see police being militarized in a lot of places, and then the abuses they get into, or the way civil discord is shut down at times with "riot police," it starts to make sense. More so because the terrorist scare tactics are ramping up more and more efforts to shut down personal liberties in America, and it's to the point where it wouldn't be inconceivable to see a person arrested and thrown in Gitmo or somewhere similar for speaking against their government.

- - - Updated - - -


I think trophy hunting is acceptable under certain circumstances. Say there needs to be a water buffalo or even elephant cull in South Africa, why not help offset the cost/generate funds for conservation by selling licenses to foreigners to pay thousands of dollars for a three day chance at shooting a critter? I don't think that is necessarily a problem so long as the professional, independent conservation advice requires said cull.

There's some strange irony to all of that, though. If we're artificially having to pump up or lower a species' numbers, we're directly taking control of nature and skipping around natural selection. Which could have a notable impact down the line when species can't adapt as quickly because they haven't had to evolve to deal with changing circumstances. We might be keeping the wrong species alive, ones that nature decided should just go away to make room for something new. How can we know for certain? We can't. We're saying that we know best what animals should or shouldn't exist on the planet, and doing our best to whip nature into doing what we want.

I'm not for shooting up all the animals, no. But if in the natural course of things, the lions in an area are about to wipe out the population of Species 1742 of deer in that area, why the heck would we try to keep that species of deer alive? And what are the long-term consequences of doing so? How are we affecting the ecosystem in the process?

I think a lot of people want to do what makes them feel good in the moment, without considering the ramifications of their actions. Which ironically puts a lot of "conservationists" in the same boat as people who actively pollute and don't care.

[40kGamer]

I think trophy hunting is acceptable under certain circumstances. Say there needs to be a water buffalo or even elephant cull in South Africa, why not help offset the cost/generate funds for conservation by selling licenses to foreigners to pay thousands of dollars for a three day chance at shooting a critter? I don't think that is necessarily a problem so long as the professional, independent conservation advice requires said cull.

If any species needs culled it is ours. We are the ones that actively work to break the natural order.

[Erik Setzer]

If any species needs culled it is ours. We are the ones that actively work to break the natural order.

Except that our learning how to do all this stuff *is* part of the natural order. If any other species evolved to the level we are, it would do the same kind of stuff. Nature made us the smartest species and gave us the ability to learn how to make society, make tools, build stuff, and kill without having to use teeth and claws. The only thing keeping lions from doing the same thing is they didn't evolve the ability to use tools and all. But the entire feline family (and God bless my kittens, I do still love them so) are pure killing machines who will straight up kill something just for fun, even when they're not hungry.

And then there's penguins... I'd feel bad for the penguins who get raped by seals, but penguins are horrible in their own right.

[40kGamer]

Except that our learning how to do all this stuff *is* part of the natural order. If any other species evolved to the level we are, it would do the same kind of stuff.

Quite true. Too bad we haven't evolved any meaningful sense of self control.

On a further note, one of my poor kitties is so domesticated he actually runs from mice... lucky for him his brother is still a certified killing machine.