$50 per Marine

[wazatdingder]

With the new advance orders for Kans and Dreads I am wondering if GW is getting a little carried away at price point. It used to be that only the large vehicles or extra special squads cost this much, but now it seems as though every other release is pushing closer to the $50 range.

The models are nice, but are they worth it? A Land Raider is at least tough as hell and cost over 200 pts.

This is not the first time the price point has hurt. I would really like to get my hands on a new Hellhound, but I cannot justify the price range. I would buy 2-3 at $35, but for $50 I don't want any.

Just wanted to see what everyone else thinks.

[Lord Azaghul]

can o' worms headed your way...;)



btw - I fully agree with you on the hellhound thing! Its getting stupid.

[syderwarp]

I feel the same way about buying tygon/mawloc I would like buy 3,or model one for a Tvigon but even at ebay free shipping $$$ is still tight and I run 6 armies:confused:!

[plasticaddict]

I can see the price for the Killa Kans it's a full squadron of walkers and quite a bit cheaper than three IG Sentinels. For a Dred, any Dred, Ork, SM, CSM $40-$50 seems a bit high for units that don't perform all that well. I also agree on the Helhound kits, their only saving grace is that with a little work you can make them multi-roll models. I understand that GW is in business to make money and assuch must make a profit on everything they sell however I thought that one of the reasons for going to all plastics was to cut costs? If you cut costs and raise prices it does smack of price gouging. I realize that making new molds and new models is a large expense and they must make their shareholders happy but if they keep going like this they are going to start loosing sales and that is something that a business should try to avoid and as someone who enjoys the game I don't want to see either, higher prices mean fewer new players will be interested in starting and we vets will slowdown od stop collecting new armies.

[wazatdingder]

My gripes aren't as much with the Kans, they seem ok. I think Land Raiders are ok for 50. But compare a Dread or a Hellhound to a LR:

They are smaller
They have less tactical diversity (though I'm sure some will argue, have that discussion elsewhere)
They are weaker
and
They cost far less points.

I recognize they cannot base the cost of models solely on any one of these factors (although when the assassins came out they were the most expensive blisters and lightest in weight, leading one to believe that the cost was for the badass factor.) It just seems to make more business sense to drop the price a bit and encourage more spending. As I said before, I don't want to buy one Hellhound for $50, I would easily buy 3 for $35 each. I don't know their profit margin, but they need to consider options. I am willing to spend alot of money on the game I love, I just want to feel I'm getting my moneys worth.

[Akkon Sek]

Regarding the Killa Kans...

The white metal ancestor was what, 25-ish? For a single unit. And it isn't half as gorgeous as the (full squad) three in this release.

$47.50 isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. But as my brick-and-mortar store owner is fond of saying (over and over), "40K is the Cadillac of tabletop games. You can get around just fine in a Pontiac, and it drives almost the same. You choose to pay for that different hood ornament."

No intent to sound preachy. As far as the rest goes: complaining about GW's prices just tweaks me a bit because it's a luxury item. It's always a choice on the part of the customer. Too expensive, vote with your feet. Simple fact is that people are willing to continue to pay GW for their product. If that stops, GW will either adjust or die. If it doesn't sell because it's crap or light on quality/quantity, then GW will see they screwed the pooch. The trick is not to buy the product "just because".

I am not going to get wrapped around the axle on this one, because the product I will purchase is eminently desirable to me, so I'll choose to drop that cash.

[Denzark]

I am a 30 year old cynic, I have to buy nappies and pay the mortgage. This is a luxury item, yes, and it is going up in price, yes. However what is going down is the target age of GW's target audience, this can be seen by the rules complexity dumbing down and the whole, Christmas list, send your mum to GW and the helpful red shirt will give her the all in one game/battleforce with the al in one paint set, modelling kit and terrain. And a table cloth flocked up. And genuine Rogal Dorn pants, and GW own glue at 150% at least the price of super glue, so that little timmy can snort away to his heart's content whilst daubing on shade number 33 of brown.

And then if we're lucky little timmy will discover girls or emo music or some such, and we'll see yet another ebay entry 'selling this for my son as it has been in the attic for 2 years since he left home, don't know what it is but think it is a spess mehrien guard elf.'

And we can buy cheap cheap like the budgey and only visit GW when you are in town and remember you are out of bleached bone or something specific, or you catch some really good DTs from lack of plastic crack and get some boxed set to sneak in when the wife is away.

To cut short, as a previous poster said, you can always stop dripping and vote with your feet...

[Razorx1970]

Well I'm starting to see that GW is starting to price thier customers into other games more and more as they release new products. With games like Warmachine, Hordes and Flames of War, etc out there, it's not hard to WANT to spend your money where you get more for it now.

Last year was supposed to be the increase, and while not earth shattering, more is still more. Living in a day and age of Unemployment at 10-11% nationwide in the United States here alone, I can understand that they have to make thier money to survive, but also they should be wise in how they price this stuff too to not push away the loyal customers who've been buying thier stuff, and put them on the map here too. I also noticed while last year was the increase, the price of ALL new releases seamed to have sneaked up there in to stupid crazy price ranges too as they've went ahead. Like the new Ven Dred, and Ork Kans.

$50 for the dreds is just stupid, and even with eBay and online retailer prices, that's still about $40, which is STILL too much.

As the other guy mentioned, GW went to plastic to save money. However, it's evident that the only reason they went to plastic, was to reap the profits for THEMSELVES only. I'm yet to see one example where going to plastic over metal was a benefit to us the money spending GW consumer, outside of the new AoBR starter set when it was released. But they nerfed that too and boosted the price up $10-$15 with the last price increase as well, making it an OK deal, but not nearly as good of a deal as it once was.

I WAS going to make another GW army, but decided against it, 110% because of GW's evident lack of appreciation for thier loyal customer base due to thier insane pricing.

I have an Ultramarine and Ork army at present, and REALLY wanted the new Legion of the Damned sets, all of the Space Wolves stuff, and WANTED to make a Tau army, but I'm not moving ahead with any of them now. Due to pricing on the blisters for Legionaires alone, I'll prob be overlooking them altogether now. Even tho those are one of the few new metal figs, they're still crazy priced. To spend almost $80+ retail for 10 figures is assinine (legion boxed set, 2 blisters of 2 unique figures per pack, and one with a flamer or melta blister).

As for Wolves, I picked up a Codex, a Wolf Pack box and Wolf Termies, and since I play at a club where proxy isn't a big deal, I'll just use existing marines to fill out the rest. And Tau isn't going to happen. Middle Finger up to GW on all three of those products! :D

I've started to get back into Warmachine now, and I JUST got my income tax refund, and could buy pretty much what ever I want, within reason, and I just can't see feeding the GW machine any further as long as they keep pricing us away.

For the record, I've played 40k and Lotr from GW on and off over the past decade now, and owned almost every Lotr peice they ever made at one point, and then some, and about 4 full on 3000+ 40k armies (Chaos, Necron, Daemon Hunter and Space Marine), which I sold off about 5 years ago, before jumping back in last year.

The thing that drew me back in WAS the value that AoBR WAS, as I was able to get back in, with enough stuff to start two nice armies up with from that set, but as soon as the price increase last year, I backed off.

At some point, we as customers have to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH too.

So now I've spent about $150 on Warmachine stuff, and have a nice variety of WM stuff, in addition to my recent Space Wolf purchased to paint up, so I'll be busy for a while. I'm also considering Flames of War again, as I tried it years ago when it first came out, but adopted it too early, and had no one to play with then, so sold it off then too. So starting over maybe with the new $40 starter, and a few US and German tanks. Thier stuff seams like a really good overall value. In times like this, companies NEED to consider that most of us are looking for somewhere we can get the most for our money first and foremost.

I'll still play 40k with what I have, but I never was a FOM type player either, and laughed my arse off as players blew hundreds for tons of tanks when new IG codex was released. I guess I'll never be one of those players, but I WAS excited about Legion and Space Wolves, but not enough to be a lemming and blindly hand GW all my money, for a small handfull of minis.

[Razorx1970]

[QUOTE=Denzark;53949]

And we can buy cheap cheap like the budgey and only visit GW when you are in town and remember you are out of bleached bone or something specific, or you catch some really good DTs from lack of plastic crack and get some boxed set to sneak in when the wife is away.
[QUOTE]

Ain't that the truth. Only time I buy anything of GWs at retail is in a pinch. I have mostly Vallejo bottles, with GW washes, and a few specific GW pots of stuff I ran out of, and only bought because it was easier to get fast than Vallejo locally.

They've definitely positioned themselves as 2nd choice when it comes to hobby supplies for sure due to thier prices too now.

[Ymir]

Ok. These are all U.S. prices. So follow me here!

Killa Kans - $44.50 for 3 with all weapon choices, better sculpt, and easier to put together vs. $25 each or $75 for 3 pewter which do not come with all weapon choices, dated look, and are tricky to put together.

Deff Dread - $49.50 for a Deff Dread with all ranged weapon choices and 4 CC weapons, better sculpt, and easier to put together vs. $55 for 3 different ranged weapons and 2 CC weapons (you want the Kustom Mega-Blasta you have to make it yourself and if you want 2 more CC weapons you need $8.25 each), dated look, and I have put one of these together I hated it. So for a total of $66.50 you can get the current one.

Venerable Dreadnought - $43 for a VD with twin-lascannon, plasma cannon, and assualt cannon. Along with 3 different CC hands and 3 different heads. It also has a ton of chapter specific parts vs. a $50 for a assault cannon and CC weapon. Want other ranged weapons buy a plastic dread for $40 or forgeworld it.

Now you guys apparently do not understand that more detail equals cost of molds and does increase the cost of the final product. A Landraider does not have that much detail sorry. A Landraider costs $57.75 and has very little detail compared to the kits listed above. I must laugh at the guys who say well....it's bigger so it must cost more. Sorry but no...more detail and ability to customize equals cost.

As others mentioned if you don't like it don't buy it. Less whinning and competition, but more cool models for me!

[Vorlon]

Amen Ymir...
This is a hobby that costs money. If 40k is too expensive you can always; play something else, kit bash custom models, search ebay.

That being said...the chimera and basilisk are very lackluster....

[Madness]

Details or size are hardly the reason for the price, if you exclude the design cost (which has to be invested only once per kit), the production cost is pretty much the same for 10 grams of plastic as it is for 1kg, what defines the price is:
- Stocking costs
- Distribution costs
- Generic company costs (paying for the website staff, miniature sculpts, artists, accountants)
- Sheer gain

GW is consolidating its structures so the generic costs should be decreasing. They also reduced dramatically the maintenance costs as they don't have to keep as many molds as they used to (with the digitalization and whatnot). Stocks and distribution are somewhat affected by the fact they are increasing the model range, on the other hand they are losing most of the metal miniatures in favor of versatile kits.

So all in all I don't see many reason for a price increase, they basically set the price to what people is willing to pay, and their financial reports show that it's far more than what it costs them to make.

If they keep up with this I can see a black market of cloned molds taking place, it's what the market does when there's too much added value and too little actual value.

In other words, they are speculating, and it's a bad move for them, as every speculation is just a bubble ready to burst. The dot com bubble is a great example, pseudo professionals selling their services at unjustifiable prices, and it worked, until people realized they didn't HAVE to pay for it.

[Razorx1970]

Ok. These are all U.S. prices. So follow me here!

Killa Kans - $44.50 for 3 with all weapon choices, better sculpt, and easier to put together vs. $25 each or $75 for 3 pewter which do not come with all weapon choices, dated look, and are tricky to put together.

Deff Dread - $49.50 for a Deff Dread with all ranged weapon choices and 4 CC weapons, better sculpt, and easier to put together vs. $55 for 3 different ranged weapons and 2 CC weapons (you want the Kustom Mega-Blasta you have to make it yourself and if you want 2 more CC weapons you need $8.25 each), dated look, and I have put one of these together I hated it. So for a total of $66.50 you can get the current one.

Venerable Dreadnought - $43 for a VD with twin-lascannon, plasma cannon, and assualt cannon. Along with 3 different CC hands and 3 different heads. It also has a ton of chapter specific parts vs. a $50 for a assault cannon and CC weapon. Want other ranged weapons buy a plastic dread for $40 or forgeworld it.

Now you guys apparently do not understand that more detail equals cost of molds and does increase the cost of the final product. A Landraider does not have that much detail sorry. A Landraider costs $57.75 and has very little detail compared to the kits listed above. I must laugh at the guys who say well....it's bigger so it must cost more. Sorry but no...more detail and ability to customize equals cost.

As others mentioned if you don't like it don't buy it. Less whinning and competition, but more cool models for me!

You had a good arguement until you got ignorant and had to toss in that conflicting opinions where "whinning", and that we didn't "understand", because YOU felt differently. Totally lost credibility when you got cocky at the end.

The argument others had too, which I agree with, is that a Land Radier is not just bigger, but it's more useful, thus the cost for the model makes more sense in real life money, and in in-game points to boot. The cost of old and new Ork Kans are out of hand, for what they are, and the same goes for the new Ven Dred as well, and ALL the dreds they offer, aside from the AoBR ones off eBay for $10-$15 max.

GamesWorkshop is out of hand with thier pricing anymore. Not everyone makes 50k-100k a year, and has $500 a month of extra luxury income to toss around.

That's what you don't "understand" :mad:

[Razorx1970]

Amen Ymir...
This is a hobby that costs money. If 40k is too expensive you can always; play something else, kit bash custom models, search ebay.

That being said...the chimera and basilisk are very lackluster....

Cost money yes, but doesn't have to cost as much as it does. GW is bending us all over as of late. They're moving US HQ soon, further cutting costs. They're raking in millions off the plastic kits, and laughing all the way to the bank, prob wishing they did it sooner than they did now.

[Razorx1970]

Details or size are hardly the reason for the price, if you exclude the design cost (which has to be invested only once per kit), the production cost is pretty much the same for 10 grams of plastic as it is for 1kg, what defines the price is:
- Stocking costs
- Distribution costs
- Generic company costs (paying for the website staff, miniature sculpts, artists, accountants)
- Sheer gain

GW is consolidating its structures so the generic costs should be decreasing. They also reduced dramatically the maintenance costs as they don't have to keep as many molds as they used to (with the digitalization and whatnot). Stocks and distribution are somewhat affected by the fact they are increasing the model range, on the other hand they are losing most of the metal miniatures in favor of versatile kits.

So all in all I don't see many reason for a price increase, they basically set the price to what people is willing to pay, and their financial reports show that it's far more than what it costs them to make.

If they keep up with this I can see a black market of cloned molds taking place, it's what the market does when there's too much added value and too little actual value.

In other words, they are speculating, and it's a bad move for them, as every speculation is just a bubble ready to burst. The dot com bubble is a great example, pseudo professionals selling their services at unjustifiable prices, and it worked, until people realized they didn't HAVE to pay for it.

I'd be first in line to buy clones at this point. :eek:

[Vorlon]

I would like to make a counter point...

Yes I understand people make different incomes and have kids (or minions as I call them) but everyone acts as though there is a time limit to buying a model. If there is something you want to buy...but cant afford at the time...save your pennies (or pence/duhkats/yen) and buy it next week/pay day/month and buy it then.

[Akkon Sek]

GamesWorkshop is out of hand with thier pricing anymore. Not everyone makes 50k-100k a year, and has $500 a month of extra luxury income to toss around.

That's what you don't "understand" :mad:

But, you see Raxor... that is EXACTLY my point. Perhaps their pricing model is out of whack. That they've gone too far and are overcharging for an inferior product. There's a solution...

Don't buy GW. Really, it's just that simple. And it is the ONLY way consumers can affect that 'unfair' pricing model. By voting with your wallet.

You WANT GW swag... by no stretch of the imagination do you NEED it. Its a luxury item, and as long as consumers permit the company which pushes that luxury items to charge exorbitant prices, by purchasing at the elevated price point... you can bet your sweet bippy that they WILL continue to charge super-high prices.

A significant percentage of the price model in this instance is sustained by the customer. Demand based on desire, not even rarity or supply. Break that cycle, and the company backs off. Don't, and nothing changes. If you think the Chimera/Basilisk kits are crap, don't buy them. Enough not buying, and the message is sent.

[plasticaddict]

As I stated earlier and see as a common thread among those of us who have issue with GWs prices I worry about how this will effect the hobby as a whole. I am going to spend what I spend on little toy soldiers regardless of the price, I just won't have as much to show for it. I just hope that GW doesn't make any large errors in thier pricing that will drive people out of the game not because they want to quit but because they can no longer support the ever growing costs. Now making a more detailed model may cost more to set up initally however in the long run this is a minimal cost in relation to everything else required to manufacture, package, distribute and sell a model. There is a price point where you start to lose revenue by making more per item and GW is approching or at that point for many items they sell. With the exception of their Washes I can get a like quality paint at a lower price from Vallejo. I can get far more basing material for a lower price than they charge for their tubs. I can get glue of the same or superior grade for less. They did a good thing by comming out with a lower cost range of paint brushes however I can still find comparable brushes for less. I can understand some price increases however some others make no sense: IG squads came as a box of 20 for $35 now they are a box of 10 for $22 making them 20% more expensive for no added value. Empire Great Swords became plastic and more expensive right after their price had been increased last year. I don't mind and in fact encourage GW to make money, the real question is are they going about it the right way? Time will tell, until then I have 11 more Valkyrie models to get to complete my sons army and my own.

[wazatdingder]

Thank you, to Razorx and Denzark for your insight. This is the sort of dialog I was looking for.
I knew there would be a slew of posts about whining, and I appreciate an intelligent discussion on the matter.

[Akkon Sek]

What slew of posts about whining? I for one was attempting to illustrate the logic of the situation and a possible course of action to some manner of resolution. Games Workshop's prices are somewhat high. No one will argue that. But as a luxury item pertaining to a game, its not a necessity for anyone to purchase. And THAT is how company perspectives get changed.

Disagreement certainly does not need to include any manner of derogatory inferences about opinions.

[wazatdingder]

An addition, How many of you pay $9 a month for that useless rag White Dwarf. An oversized Sunday add thats sole purpose is to keep us frothing at the mouth like the little GW junkies we are. It rarely has anything, anymore, that does more than tell you to buy their latest product. It used to have things like chapter approved.

[Dark_Templar]

Don't buy GW. Really, it's just that simple. And it is the ONLY way consumers can affect that 'unfair' pricing model. By voting with your wallet.

You WANT GW swag... by no stretch of the imagination do you NEED it. Its a luxury item, and as long as consumers permit the company which pushes that luxury items to charge exorbitant prices, by purchasing at the elevated price point... you can bet your sweet bippy that they WILL continue to charge super-high prices.


Seriously? How about people just know the limits of their budgets when applied to the hobby? How about not boycotting GW, since;
a: It probably wouldn't make a shred of a difference if a handful of people stopped buying, and good luck getting the vast majority of gamers to stop
b: They stop bringing in money, what reason do they have to keep stretching the range of minis and products that they have now. You will likely see products ripped from the shelves and discontinued.

If you can't afford it, either be content with what you have for now, buy second hand, or simply get out of the hobby altogether.

These threads come up a lot, and it always results in the same thing.

If GW became stagnant with their releases, perhaps I can see an argument here, but whilst they are providing new products, rules, and supplements, why wouldn't I support them where possible?

[wazatdingder]

What slew of posts about whining? I for one was attempting to illustrate the logic of the situation and a possible course of action to some manner of resolution. Games Workshop's prices are somewhat high. No one will argue that. But as a luxury item pertaining to a game, its not a necessity for anyone to purchase. And THAT is how company perspectives get changed.

Disagreement certainly does not need to include any manner of derogatory inferences about opinions.

I appreciate you too Sek.;)

Thank you

[Dark_Templar]

An addition, How many of you pay $9 a month for that useless rag White Dwarf. An oversized Sunday add thats sole purpose is to keep us frothing at the mouth like the little GW junkies we are. It rarely has anything, anymore, that does more than tell you to buy their latest product. It used to have things like chapter approved.

That is one thing I will agree with. If you look at WD ten years ago compared to now, it is definitely an inferior product these days, used for nothing more than advertising purposes.

The articles are sub-par, Jervis needs some sort of inspiration, the Battle Reports are boring, short, and less detailed IMO than previously. They repeat the same old painting workshops every couple of issues.

It is time for a shake up on this one.

p.s. Yes, I still buy it, I subscribe, because despite its shortfalls, I feel I get my money's worth out of the read, but always feel that there should be more to the content.

[Akkon Sek]

If GW became stagnant with their releases, perhaps I can see an argument here, but whilst they are providing new products, rules, and supplements, why wouldn't I support them where possible?

At no point was I suggesting a boycott. Though admittedly where I wrote "GW" I should have caveatted with "GW retail". As you stated, there are a myriad of ways to carry on with GW-specific models which do not require first-run/full-retail purchase.

Also bear in mind the original discussion revolved around specific product lines not living up to an expected quality based on shelf price. It is through the lack-of-sale of these specific items that change can be facilitated through lack of purchase.

The last thing I, or most anyone I imagine, wants is a full-on boycott of Games Workshop. At least, not until the sixth when I can acquire my Killa Kans... if you please. ;)

[Subject Keyword]

Immortals...
$12 each...
Need ten for effective army...
Hate my life...
They should make marines $50 each. Then maybe Imperial players would quit playing Marines and I'd get to fight a real challenge: Guard.

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[Unlighted]

I always wanted to use Immortals, but never wanted to dish out $135 for a squad of 10. You could buy a small army for that much...

I solved my problem by just buying 2 box sets of Warriors 35+35= $70 and some spare green stuff to add a little more substance to my Warriors. A little filing, trimming, and gluing and I had a squad of 10 Immortals for just a little over half what I would have had to pay.

If you can't stand the prices that have been strapped to a grot guided rocket, but still want to use the Elites or special units then just enter the amazing world of conversions! :)

[Razorx1970]

That is one thing I will agree with. If you look at WD ten years ago compared to now, it is definitely an inferior product these days, used for nothing more than advertising purposes.

The articles are sub-par, Jervis needs some sort of inspiration, the Battle Reports are boring, short, and less detailed IMO than previously. They repeat the same old painting workshops every couple of issues.

It is time for a shake up on this one.

p.s. Yes, I still buy it, I subscribe, because despite its shortfalls, I feel I get my money's worth out of the read, but always feel that there should be more to the content.

Yeah it too has turned to crap over the years. I swear I remember paying $6 for it when Lotr was big, and even back then, it had MORE to offer in the way of scenarios, modeling and fluff than it does now. Anymore, I flip thro it at our game club, or at the store, and read what I want or need from it. It's not good enough anymore to even grab, sit down and have enough to read long enough to take a good dump. Making it pretty useless for sure now days. :cool:

[wazatdingder]

Immortals...
$12 each...
Need ten for effective army...
Hate my life...
They should make marines $50 each. Then maybe Imperial players would quit playing Marines and I'd get to fight a real challenge: Guard.

On that subject, look at the new Flash Gitz. $16.50 each. That's $165 for 10!!! At that price you can get 30 nobs. And in my experience nobs are much better. While Flash Gitz are "flashy" they are not very reliable and lack any real CCW ability. Not to mention they have no transport option, and you give up a slot for a battle wagon, dread, or kans. They are hardly worth playing with, let alone paying $16 a piece for.

As a mad ork player, I would like to have it all and then some, all I gotta say now is HELL NO!

[Melissia]

Excuse me-- Sisters player here? All-metal army and all? Yeah, I've been dealing with this for a while, get used to it, kthxbai.

[Rapture]

On that subject, look at the new Flash Gitz. $16.50 each. That's $165 for 10!!! At that price you can get 30 nobs. And in my experience nobs are much better. While Flash Gitz are "flashy" they are not very reliable and lack any real CCW ability. Not to mention they have no transport option, and you give up a slot for a battle wagon, dread, or kans. They are hardly worth playing with, let alone paying $16 a piece for.

As a mad ork player, I would like to have it all and then some, all I gotta say now is HELL NO!

I have not and will not purchase any of the individually sold metal models. Why anyone would pay 10-20 dollars for a single 28mm model is completely beyond me. Apparently, people like the high level of detail or rules that come along with the models. To me they are just too expensive.

[gcsmith]

Hmm can I give my 2 cents. Well This is a hobby and with points about the individual models. I think they are to give character to a unit, Especially with flash gits. Flash Gits cant be that hard to konvert and as such the GW models are detailed and are designed to give some inspiration. Admittedly the prices would be better if it was a LTD or partnership or solo owned business as it would most likely be run by a hobbiest as who would run a high liabilty set out on a model game :p

[Magos]

Immortals...
$12 each...
Need ten for effective army...
Hate my life...
They should make marines $50 each. Then maybe Imperial players would quit playing Marines and I'd get to fight a real challenge: Guard.
Thats why on Wednesday you get to say hi to artillery.


Anyway, in the end, people need to realize that.
A-Paying full price is dump 90% of the time (Internet discounts)
B-Conversions are not hard (Someone did me an awesome favour and converted 3 Nurgle Princes out of greenstuff and Ogres. Total cost, 27$+Greenstuff
C-GW does not care about your opinion. GW is a major corporation, major corporations care about a minority of consumers as much as I care about my dirty sock. As long as Timmy still gets mommys credit card, and mommy is still willing to buy plastic space men, then GW is Happy. And making money.

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[ggg]

Originally Posted by Denzark
I am a 30 year old cynic, I have to buy nappies and pay the mortgage. This is a luxury item, yes, and it is going up in price, yes. However what is going down is the target age of GW's target audience, this can be seen by the rules complexity dumbing down and the whole, Christmas list, send your mum to GW and the helpful red shirt will give her the all in one game/battleforce with the al in one paint set, modelling kit and terrain. And a table cloth flocked up. And genuine Rogal Dorn pants, and GW own glue at 150% at least the price of super glue, so that little timmy can snort away to his heart's content whilst daubing on shade number 33 of brown.

And then if we're lucky little timmy will discover girls or emo music or some such, and we'll see yet another ebay entry 'selling this for my son as it has been in the attic for 2 years since he left home, don't know what it is but think it is a spess mehrien guard elf.'

And we can buy cheap cheap like the budgey and only visit GW when you are in town and remember you are out of bleached bone or something specific, or you catch some really good DTs from lack of plastic crack and get some boxed set to sneak in when the wife is away.

To cut short, as a previous poster said, you can always stop dripping and vote with your feet...




testify my brother, testify.

[Atrotos]

"Vote with your wallet" and I agree but then what is there to look forward to? You stay without new models and GW makes less money: Lose/Lose

The change needs to happen at GWs end. They're making more money from PARENTS buying for their kids than they do from veterans who actually give a damn. All those army boxes bought at Christmas time and set aside for actual toys. Meanwhile you and I are painting and converting and taking time to build a working, thematic army from the ground up. We don't buy $250 worth of models at a time because we have the sense to know we can't use that many at once. Thus they don't care what you or I think.

I'm not an economist but even I can say that this trend of price inflation during times when people have less money just can't be clever. In any case each of us knows that even if prices were to drop 50% tomorrow none of us would spend half the money we currently do on the hobby... we'd just have double the models.

[gwensdad]

At least the re-done chimera is still $35. Granted they've taken the accessory sprue (frame) away but it goes with my "transports are $35" theory.
$49 for a Basalisk? I think that's crazy.

[Akkon Sek]

If anything good can come of rapidly inflating prices, it has certainly appeared top encourage an increase in the customized/kitbash side of the hobby.

Maybe I am seeing it because I want it to be so, but it sure seems to me there are a lot more 1/48 SD.KZF250s as Chimeras, M-48/M-60 conversions into a Russ, Hind-as-a-Valkyrie, etc.

I wholly support this trend, if it exists.

I also note a more relaxed attitude towards counts-as in 40K communities, outside of the tournament scene of course. I'd be curious to know if anyone else has noted the same.

Thankfully I never have to concern myself with such as I don't play tourneys and have a regular group who digs customized work, so long as its a reasonable facsimile and basically WYSIWYG.

[Idaeus]

I know a dozen people who would enjoy 40K loads but don't play because of the prices.
Personally I only buy products that I think are value for money and give an end product I get lots of use/enjoyment from. Once prices go up I sometimes stop buying eg. lotr metal models, the new vehicles, most importantly paints (>2£ is too much) and in addition fantasy genrally (I want too start but cost is too high). Mainly I get plastic infantry which I gives me the most value for money.
In relation to recent releases I dont like the all options in 1 kit this=waste it should be more like FW with seperate options for each weapon-at reasonable prices of course.
Any way just what I was thinking...

[Dark_Templar]

At no point was I suggesting a boycott. Though admittedly where I wrote "GW" I should have caveatted with "GW retail". As you stated, there are a myriad of ways to carry on with GW-specific models which do not require first-run/full-retail purchase.

Also bear in mind the original discussion revolved around specific product lines not living up to an expected quality based on shelf price. It is through the lack-of-sale of these specific items that change can be facilitated through lack of purchase.

The last thing I, or most anyone I imagine, wants is a full-on boycott of Games Workshop. At least, not until the sixth when I can acquire my Killa Kans... if you please. ;)

My apologies, I obviously interpreted the post incorrectly. GW retail is definitely something that can be boycotted (I have done it involuntarily, since I do not have one within 350kms). I make the majority of my purchases through Wayland Games, giving me 50, 60, maybe 70% discount on what I would pay here in Austraila, and that INCLUDES postage from the UK.

I will purchase my Codicies, novels, paints and modelling gear, and the occasional model all from GW Online, just to support them. But in the end, I suppose you are right, maybe if we looked at other avenues of obtaining the minis, chose not to use their retail stores, shopped at the independants, or maybe if GW became more of an online entity, it could bring about a huge change. I understand there are pros and cons to each, but it is an interesting thought.

Anyways, I have to congratulate all on keeping this civil. And welcome Melissia, I am surprised it took you so long to arrive, was your flight delayed :p

[Dark_Templar]

So, as I am looking to get some Eldar, I did some pricing.

I can get the codex and battleforce from Wayland for $109.13AUD, including postage to Australia from UK.

OR I can pay $192AUD and buy it locally.

There is something wrong when you can buy internationally with postage and still pay about 40% less.

$80 off a purchase is a lot of money, which could be spent on any number of things. Doing bargain searches like this are what allow me to continue the hobby, and perhaps GW need to look at this sort of thing seriously (but if they are making the sales at full retail in store, then why bother).

Anyways, just thought people might be interested.

[Xas]

a big problem recently emerging for US/rest of world is that GW is a mainly EU based as far as prices are concearned.

it also hit (it is quite ironically as GW originates from uk but whatever) the UK quite hard.

I'm talking about the € rise.


I was told by many UK people (for not saying "heard them whine about") the new price of gaunts in the split boxes but where you pay in € the new boxes are cheaper than the old were.


I think this is what happening: instead of increasing (or god forbid decreasing!) prices as the currencies change GW hides their currency adaptions (usually on the error of a rise...) with new products.


just a little example: 1 warwalker 25€, 3 killakahns 35€. 3 khans are 140% of 1 warwalker
in us$: 3 khans 44,50, 1 warwalker 30. 3 khans are 148% of 1 warwalker.

48/40 =1,2. so your US price increase is 20% more than in € land but if you do a currency converter you are still cheaper...

[Brass Scorpion]

This is not the first time the price point has hurt. I would really like to get my hands on a new Hellhound, but I cannot justify the price range. I would buy 2-3 at $35, but for $50 I don't want any.I have to agree, the high price points make multiples less of an option for many people. eBay is my new friend on items like this, especially when I want multiples of a $50 range item. I bought one new Hellhound when it first came out just to get one going, but then started watching eBay to pick up a few more. After models have been out for a few weeks and immediate demand drops off, so does some of the competition on some of the auctions for those items. I was able to get a couple new Hellhound kits for $29 each and a new Demolisher for about $36 a few weeks after their release by watching some auctions that didn't go too high. I've also gotten three boxes of Raveners in the past week or two for $31 each off of eBay. If you can be patient, significant discounts are possible and of course, there are reliable sellers like The War Store and Chaos Mail Order that offer 20% off all the time.

[Mystery.Shadow]

I remember when my first local Game Store originally opened up. The store owner was knowlegeable and very helpful. Was a great place to just simply hang out! The place was like 'Cheers' but with Miniatures insted of Beer (I know some of you are fortunate enough to have both, but no way, not here in the USA) I bought EVERYTHING from that Game Store. I did so because I liked the place. I liked the owner, and wanted to support him.

[Dark_Templar]

I remember when my first local Game Store originally opened up. The store owner was knowlegeable and very helpful. Was a great place to just simply hang out! The place was like 'Cheers' but with Miniatures insted of Beer (I know some of you are fortunate enough to have both, but no way, not here in the USA) I bought EVERYTHING from that Game Store. I did so because I liked the place. I liked the owner, and wanted to support him.

This is all written in past tense. I am guessing the Cheers store evolved more into Tortellis rather than Frasier?

Anywho, it is great to hear you had a game store like that, would have been a good experience.

[Mystery.Shadow]

Sadly, the store owner's wife had something to say.

The store got changed. There was less and less of the cool stuff and more and more of the stupid.

Ultimately, the store failed. From selling TONS* of 40k/Fantasy as well as Magic/Yu-Gi-Oh/CCGs and Comic Books....

....Turned into selling REALLY Cheap Plastic Airplanes, Breyer Plastic Horses, Animal Furs, Flea-Market JUNK, Wooden Children's Educational Toys, opening a DOG GROOMING area INSIDE the Game Store! (?)

The owner got addicted to City of Heroes MMO and forgot all about running a store. 24/7 was dedicated to his Video Game. He played his MMO DURING open Store Hours!! Things went downhill FAST.


*Tons, yeah, really! I could not believe how much stuff they sold! It was amazing!!

[Vorlon]

Sadly, the store owner's wife had something to say.

The store got changed. There was less and less of the cool stuff and more and more of the stupid.

Ultimately, the store failed. From selling TONS* of 40k/Fantasy as well as Magic/Yu-Gi-Oh/CCGs and Comic Books....

....Turned into selling REALLY Cheap Plastic Airplanes, Breyer Plastic Horses, Animal Furs, Flea-Market JUNK, Wooden Children's Educational Toys, opening a DOG GROOMING area INSIDE the Game Store! (?)

The owner got addicted to City of Heroes MMO and forgot all about running a store. 24/7 was dedicated to his Video Game. He played his MMO DURING open Store Hours!! Things went downhill FAST.


*Tons, yeah, really! I could not believe how much stuff they sold! It was amazing!!

This brings up a great point. By boycotting you are not going to affect GW as a corporation but the local gaming stores will definitely feel the pinch.

And in the end you can always sell blood plasma for extra cash to buy 40k stuff.

[Razorx1970]

And in the end you can always sell blood plasma for extra cash to buy 40k stuff.

Where? lol

[Vorlon]

Not entirely sure....a commercial for a plasma center happen to come on while i was typing that post...apparently they give $25 for a unit-o-plasma. A few trips and you can get a baneblade or something.


Hmm PlasMarines Chapter sounds interesting.

[andrewm9]

I have not and will not purchase any of the individually sold metal models. Why anyone would pay 10-20 dollars for a single 28mm model is completely beyond me. Apparently, people like the high level of detail or rules that come along with the models. To me they are just too expensive.

In some cases, its the only way to get the model. For a Sisters player like myself; if I want a heavy flamer toting sister, I really have to pay 13.25 just to get that model in addition to the 41.25 squad. Currently the squad can only be bought from US stores too. A heavy flamer is something that can go in every basic sister squad. Many of us play with a meltagun (anotehr 8.25) and heavy flamer in every squad. It certainly isn't cheap but there really isn't much choice as chopping up metal miniatures and modifying them is not beginner level stuff.

[Razorx1970]

Not entirely sure....a commercial for a plasma center happen to come on while i was typing that post...apparently they give $25 for a unit-o-plasma. A few trips and you can get a baneblade or something.


Hmm PlasMarines Chapter sounds interesting.

Haha, I need to look into that. :D

[Melissia]

In some cases, its the only way to get the model. For a Sisters player like myself; if I want a heavy flamer toting sister, I really have to pay 13.25 just to get that model in addition to the 41.25 squad. Currently the squad can only be bought from US stores too. A heavy flamer is something that can go in every basic sister squad. Many of us play with a meltagun (anotehr 8.25) and heavy flamer in every squad. It certainly isn't cheap but there really isn't much choice as chopping up metal miniatures and modifying them is not beginner level stuff.

Yes, but as you and I very well know, Sisters are an all-metal army. These people are spoiled by low prices and now that the prices are inching up towards where the metal models are, they're complaining incessantly.

[Absolutionis]

$80 off a purchase is a lot of money, which could be spent on any number of things. Doing bargain searches like this are what allow me to continue the hobby, and perhaps GW need to look at this sort of thing seriously (but if they are making the sales at full retail in store, then why bother).Aye. Buying online usually nets you 20%-30% off MSRP for new products. I also hear that in Australia, prices for many entertainment items are more expensive.
Either way, buying online is indeed the best thing if you want new product. If I can spend hours painting these little models, I can spend about half an hour looking at my favorite sites and creating a shopping list.

However...

I remember when my first local Game Store originally opened up. The store owner was knowlegeable and very helpful. Was a great place to just simply hang out! The place was like 'Cheers' but with Miniatures insted of Beer (I know some of you are fortunate enough to have both, but no way, not here in the USA) I bought EVERYTHING from that Game Store. I did so because I liked the place. I liked the owner, and wanted to support him.This is another thing. I know for a fact that many stores get their stock at 30%-40% off MSRP. Some even decide to sell their stock for less than MSRP. All the more power to them.
However, if a game store gives me and my friends space to play every week, I could be bothered to spend a few extra dollars on an item I was going to buy anyways.

I played in a store for hours one day and even exceeded closing time. The guy waited for eight of us. I went and bought two Hive Guard at $20 each. I could have gotten them for $16 online (plus shipping), but in the end, it's somewhat of a tip. In the end, he made money and I got two models that I have been considering getting anyways. TheWarStore.com isn't going to miss my service. Reality's Edge, a privately owned small store in New Jersey is going to get my money instead. Either way, Games Workshop made the $12-or-so whatever selling the item directly to online retailers or local retailers.

Ultimately, I would never buy from a GW store itself. That way, all my money goes to GW.


Sisters

Sisters
Yep, okay. Sisters sisters to you as well.

[Lord Azaghul]

Absolutionis: I'm right there with you 100%.

My FLGS, a non-gw store; has a fantasticly large game room. They have a good selection of terrain, and plenty of tables for casual play and tourneys, they even leave the gameroom key with non-employee gamers (whom they know of course. The game room is open every day, even after the store closes, and they never charge to use it. The only time I pay full price is when I buy from them and I know that they get some of the money. I want them to stay open. I like meeting up with my friends once a week for gaming. Me buying from them shows my support for there store and business practices, just like me buying online retailers (non-gw) shows my lack of support for GW direct!

[Dark_Templar]

Aye. Buying online usually nets you 20%-30% off MSRP for new products. I also hear that in Australia, prices for many entertainment items are more expensive.
Either way, buying online is indeed the best thing if you want new product.

Yup, Aussies get shafted in product pricing. I understand there are transport costs, and less units sold per population density and all that other junk. Fact is we are taken advantage of because there are so many convenient excuses that could be used.

But rather than whining about it, I just shop internationally. I would consider the option of opening up my own eBay store for example if the costs weren't so high. I know there are a few VERY indy stores in Aus that basically stick their finger up at GWs pricing and give massive discounts. But these are essentially backyard online stores doing the best they can to serve the local gaming community, often selling only within their gaming region.

DT.