Hardest Character

[YorkNecromancer]

Simple enough: who is the hardest character in all of 40K?

Now, the rules should guide your decision, but so should the fluff; we're not talking 'two characters face off in a white room''. We're talking 'two generals face off with opposing armies, stratagems, etc, and fight to the death'.

Taking both fluff and crunch as a whole: who is the hardest?

My gut says Calgar, because as the 'Marine of all Marines', he pretty much should be, but he just never comes across in the fluff as ruthless enough to me. He'd worry about the civilians instead of putting a bullet in the bad guy.

Abaddon talks a good game, and is a beast on the table, but as we all know: he just can't back it up. Twelve Black Crusades later and he there kind of reaches a point where you have to figure that while the lunatic army with the scavenged weapons and mostly broken technology is part of the reason, there's probably another, more significant one, and it wears a top knot.

Draigo is too Mary Sue to be credible as a hard man for me. Same for Ghazghkull; he's not as bad as Draigo, but only because he's so charmingly violent. Yarrick's not a bad call, but he's not Tough enough (in game terms). The Swarmlord's a credible champ, but Tyranids always lose in the fluff, which makes him hard to place in front.

So in sheer, bloody-minded, gets-the-job-done, hammer-to-kill-a-flea, 'I gave you magic in there' Charles Bronson hard mannery, I think I'm going to go for an outside bet and choose Chaplain Lemartes, because he's already a monomaniacal lunatic to begin with, but then he hulks out and enters BEAST MODE and becomes something else entirely. Maybe not the best general, sure, but definitely the man most likely to beat you to death with your own spine.

What do other people think?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Asdrubael Vect. I can't imagine anyone out-scheming him if the chips are down and a real fight for his life is on the line.

Failing that, Yarrick. Any of the above would shatter the Old Man's body, but you'd never crush his will, and you'd be dealing with a helluva lot of furious Steel Legion firepower if you did bring him low.

[daboarder]

Abaddon, Seriously dude's still got a space marine legion

Dante, Calgar him self acknowledged Dante's superiority in war, thats no small thing

Ans probably the Swarmlord, I mean sure, it gets killed every now and then, but it gets better (Though I really miss Swarmlord being able to go toe-to-toe with the 30k primarchs, GOD he was a beast with lashwhip guard and forcing re-roll of invuls)

[DWest]

No love for Kharn? Crunch-wise, he's a monster when he hits melee, especially since he's 100+ points cheaper than the big names. As for the lore, here's a man who destroyed his own sanity out of loyalty, then set about destroying everything else simply because it exists. Yes, he's no strategic genius, and he doesn't have anything resembling a proper army backing him up (in fact, the cohesion of his own forces was one of the first things he destroyed), but nothing short of complete disintegration is going to stop him from closing in and ripping his enemies apart, barehanded if need be.

[Cactus]

Eldrad Ulthran. He's sneaky, smart, and knows all of the future magic.

He foresaw the future and helped develop an Ork to kill millions of Imperials- just to save a couple thousand Eldar.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Eldrad Ulthran. He's sneaky, smart, and knows all of the future magic.

He foresaw the future and helped develop an Ork to kill millions of Imperials- just to save a couple thousand Eldar.

Then he died.

[40kGamer]

Then he died.

...and thanks to the magic of retconning he came back. :)

[Cactus]

Then he died.

Then there were magic crystals. Then 6th edition.

[ShadowcatX]

Two generals face off? I'll take Eldrad Ulthran any day. Beyond what was mentioned earlier, he was a good enough seer 10,000 years ago to be able to warn the emperor about Horus. Add 10,000 years experience to that, and I doubt any couple hundred year old marine is going to even come close to matching him.

Vect gets an honorable mention for possibly being the only living being older than Eldrad outside of warp thingies.

[Tyrendian]

Eldar have the slight problem of being... well... Eldar, and thus by definition disallowed from ever winning any major war because that would go against the whole "dying race" theme - heck even in their own Black Library novels...

As for a winner, kinda surprised noone has mentioned the Necrons yet - if there's anyone besides Nids who's gonna rule that galaxy it's them in my opinion, and they have some pretty decent leaders... with Trazyn being my favourite - heck the guy seems to have his own primarch for a wall decoration for cryin out loud...

[YorkNecromancer]

If we're talking hardcore Necrons, there's only one man who can possibly claim the title of hardest bast*** - this boss right here:

http://i.imgur.com/4W9yx9p.jpg

Oh wait, sorry.

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99800110013_VargardObyronNEW01.jpg

JAFFA! CREE!

[Dalleron]

IF you're talking take no sh!t, kill all to get'er done, then I say Asmodai from the Dark Angels. What won't he do to keep the secret secret and hunt the fallen? He's had to be censured by his Chapter master numerous times.

[Deadlift]

Typhus has always been my favourite bad boy. Not sure what he's like game wise atm, but fluff he's a proper nasty piece of work.
I have always liked Lysander too. He's always going to get the job done.

But my final vote goes to Kharne.

[vharing]

AS a long time Blood Angels player, Im got to have to say Dante. Right after the new codex dropped I played against my friend's salamanders army. When he found out about Dante taking away some of his stats, he said it was like Dante went to shake He'stans hand before the battle and kick He'stan in the baals so hard it made him less of a space marine. Besides fluff wise he is the oldest living, non dreadnought space marine.

[Tomgar]

Gonna go with Vect. Anyone who can outmatch an entire dimension of drug-fuelled nutters with superhuman speed, cunning and intelligence has got to be a force to be reckoned with. Also, he doesn't screw around. Opening up an entire subrealm of Commoragh to the daemons of the warp, just to kill a rival? Ouch.

[Michael Bobchin]

I'm gonna go with the horse that brought me to the race. Urien Rakarth, the dude nabbed a whole hive fleet and suspended it in between dimensions along with some craftworld scum and some exodite filth, all because he wanted more stuff to play with if he got bored.

[YorkNecromancer]

AS a long time Blood Angels player, Im got to have to say Dante. Right after the new codex dropped I played against my friend's salamanders army. When he found out about Dante taking away some of his stats, he said it was like Dante went to shake He'stans hand before the battle and kick He'stan in the baals so hard it made him less of a space marine. Besides fluff wise he is the oldest living, non dreadnought space marine.

If they gave him his axe back at regular initiative? He'd be an absolute A1 contender for the title.

[Gil Alfonso]

Malakim Phoros and his Lamenters. Much like Lemartes, Malakim is able to slip into and out of the Black Rage in combat, but with the added bonus of a cool head and the mind of a master tactician. The Lamenters would gladly die by the hundreds to protect imperial lives, and have such immense respect for their chapter master, they'd probably get back up and fight a little more if he asked. They reutinely do what other marine chapters think is impossible, like holding out against a Black Crusade for months. By themselves. Hell, they single handedly liberated Slaughterhouse III, something even Calgar thought was impossible, and they did it with a mere 300 marines, and they do all of this despite having the worst luck in the universe.

[Defenestratus]

As much as Eldrad has his future-seeing abilities, you really need to read Valedor to understand how all that future-seeing stuff works. Its not exactly a perfect science for the Eldar. For that reason, I'd have to give the nod to Yriel. He not only fights massive amounts of Tyranids and comes out on top, but he fights against the willpower of the Spear of Twilight and keeps coming back for more. Its quite apparent that he's not only a master tactician on the battlefield, but also is unsurpassed in naval warfare as well.

[Gil Alfonso]

Malakim Phoros and his Lamenters. Much like Lemartes, Malakim is able to slip into and out of the Black Rage in combat, but with the added bonus of a cool head and the mind of a master tactician. The Lamenters would gladly die by the hundreds to protect imperial lives, and have such immense respect for their chapter master, they'd probably get back up and fight a little more if he asked. They reutinely do what other marine chapters think is impossible, like holding out against a Black Crusade for months. By themselves. Hell, they single handedly liberated Slaughterhouse III, something even Calgar thought was impossible, and they did it with a mere 300 marines, and they do all of this despite having the worst luck in the universe.

[Denzark]

Umm... Bjorn the Fell-Handed? 10000+ years. All I can say is: "Even in Death I still serve..."

[Tyrendian]

Umm... Bjorn the Fell-Handed? 10000+ years. All I can say is: "Even in Death I still serve..."

also, "God-Emperor? Sigh... Heck I lived in the times when we knew he wasn't one, because Big Daddy E himself said so..."

[Psychosplodge]

Logan Grimnar...

[Wolfshade]

Mephiston Lord of Death.

[Calgar33]

Completely unbiased opinion but my vote is for Calgar.

[Infinite Freedom]

Captain Darnath Lysander of the Imperial Fists. Crunch wise, The only thing that Chapter Master Smash (@^_!%#) has on him is FNP and IWND... and a bike. Lore wise the guy broke out of a Chaos prison without weapons, proceeded to obtain some weapons and that proceeded to murder his way off of Malodrax. Then he comes back later to really smash things up.

[White Tiger88]

Mephiston Lord of Death.

Pretty much have to agree here.......the guy sucker punch demons with no armor on......

[Denzark]

He got captured in the first place though...

[Inluminie]

"God-Emperor? Sigh... Heck I lived in the times when we knew he wasn't one, because Big Daddy E himself said so..."

Careful. Someone might around here might try to shoot you for heresy... Just saying :P

[Tyrendian]

Careful. Someone might around here might try to shoot you for heresy... Just saying :P

oh yeah I just want to see them try that on ol' Bjorn... results will be as amusing as they will be non-pretty :D

[Still Standing]

One of the Daemon Primarchs.

A Grey Eldar.

A Pheonix Lord.

One of those.

[John Bower]

Gazghull Thraka because.... Lord of War (or Waagh! depending on how you see it). And on the tabletop I've only lost him once (back in the last codex to a DS mishap caused by his rather daft Weirdboy), Oh weirdboyz are so much nicer now.