Shooting around corners - Necron Death Ray

[Maelstorm]

Unit: Necron Sentry Pylon
Weapon: Focused Death Ray
Range: 24", Strength 10, AP 1

IA12, The Fall of Orpheus
"To fire the focused death ray, nominate a point on the battlefield within its range, then nominate a second point within 3D6" of the first. Draw a straight line (considered to be 1mm in width) between the first two points. Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to twice the number of models underneath the line."

Question 1: If I select a spot on the table within 24" on one side of a building and then nominate a second point within 3D6 of the first point on the other side of the building will it hit the models hiding behind the building? In this case both points selected were within LOS of the Sentry Pylon.

Question 2: Does this hit models in an invisible unit? ie. does it get around all of the Invisibility shenanigans?

Question 3: Can it pass through models in Close Combat?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Houghten]

1) Yes. Templates are funny like that, and this is considered to be a 1mm thick template.

2) No. Invisible units can only be targeted by Snap Shots, and this isn't. You can accidentally scatter a blast on to them, but you can't deliberately target them.

3) You may not deliberately target units in close combat.

[Maelstorm]

1) Yes. Templates are funny like that, and this is considered to be a 1mm thick template.

2) No. Invisible units can only be targeted by Snap Shots, and this isn't. You can accidentally scatter a blast on to them, but you can't deliberately target them.

3) You may not deliberately target units in close combat.

For both #2 and 3# you are not targeting a unit, you are selecting 2 points and drawing a straight line between them. Anything under the line is automatically hit twice, friend or foe.

[Ben_S]

The RAW sound rather dodgy. Suppose the line passes through one Ork Loota, two Boyz, and three Grots. Each unit takes twelve hits. However, going by those rules, it sounds as if the answer to all your questions is yes - you're not targetting the models in question.

[Houghten]

For both #2 and 3# you are not targeting a unit, you are selecting 2 points and drawing a straight line between them. Anything under the line is automatically hit twice, friend or foe.

You are choosing to shoot at a very specific area which includes them and trying to convince me you are not targeting them. Fail.

[SnakeChisler]

Looked at this with the Death Ray when 7th came out

Q1
So trying to work through this the 1st thing to note is that the Death Ray comes from the Gun underneath that only has the 90% field of vision to its target therefore even if you role super high on the 3d6 you can't kill anything outside its arc of fire as far as I can see in the rules.
Also the rules on Blast templates allow you to kill stuff you can't see but aside from blast then any other template defaults to you can only kill what your model has line of sight to.
Cover saves/ Armor pen - always remember the beam comes from the gun even if it spoons sideways and doesn't start at the point you select but rakes across the ground it most certainly does not start from that point then take the cover / armor from the point it hits

Q2/3
You are not targeting any unit but start at a point on the ground and nothing I've read in the Necron Codex or the 7th BRB covers this so as written then you can pass it through whatever you want. I've also tried looking up how this relates to the Pyromancy beam but again it starts at the Psyker and just goes in line. Are they Templates - Yes are you allowed to target (note didn't use the word hit) an invisible unit - Not sure if the invisible unit is the 1st 1 hit then their the ones denying the witch but the death ray has a total length of 3" rollable up to 18" so long as the 1st 3 inches doesn't clip an engaged unit (and I guess this is where the Invisible thing comes in) you've no way of saying what its actually targeting or going to hit.
With the Death Ray on the Doom Scythe page it says you can Telsa whatever the beam passes over which could be multiple targets depending on how well you roll

Found this really cool pic kind of illustrates the beam nicely

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19142&stc=1&d=1361822941

[Maelstorm]

Thank you for the detailed reply.

Very cool photo - that base would weigh a ton to balance the cantilevered weight of the Doom Scythe. :)

Looking closely you can see the Flyer is actually sitting on a shelf coming out from the wall behind it.

12" welding rod, cut a metal flyer base... I might have to try this!

[ShadowcatX]

You are choosing to shoot at a very specific area which includes them and trying to convince me you are not targeting them. Fail.

I'm sure you'll be happy to provide a rules quote to back up your assertion that targeting 2 points on either side of a unit = targeting the unit, since you're so sure of yourself, and since you're posting in the rules forum and all. I eagerly await it. Thanks!

[John Bower]

I'd go with it does hit, since the whole rule of the weapon does not state 'target' anything, it just hits a line between 2 points on the battlefield and 'any unit' under that line is hit regardless, even friendlies; which I think qualifies it as you can't 'target' a friendly unit either.

[SnakeChisler]

I'm sure you'll be happy to provide a rules quote to back up your assertion that targeting 2 points on either side of a unit = targeting the unit, since you're so sure of yourself, and since you're posting in the rules forum and all. I eagerly await it. Thanks!

'Nominate a point on the battlefield anywhere within the weapons range then nominate a 2nd point within 3d6 of the first then draw a line between the two points. Every unit (Friend or Enemy) suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line'

There's still the usual caveats with line of site arc of fire etc but nothing in there about choosing a target, my friend plays Crons so we went through all the relevant stuff and while I'd be happy to have my invisible bikers not hit I really can't see a way round it.

Jink is a bit strange in that they used to get a jink save before by moving but now if your targeted with a weapon you nominate, we've just taken the approach that they can cos there's a dirty great big beam heading their way and they used to before but RAW its a bit of a hole.

[Houghten]

I'm sure you'll be happy

Clearly, you've never met me.


to provide a rules quote

If anybody could provide a rules quote, this topic would already be over.

What I can tell you is that Invisibility runs on the same screwyouoleum fuel as Hard To Hit. If you think you've found a clever way around it, you're wrong. Unless you're Tau.

(And, before you ask, I can't cast Invisibility from a Weirdboy, so no I don't have a stake in supporting this argument beyond Being Right.)

[SnakeChisler]

I have provided a rule quote ?

And its not a clever way round it, as I've put in the quoted text it chooses a point in the ground then another no more than 3d6 away friend or foe gets splattered with a s10 beam, that's lifted straight from the Cron dex, so the rule was written before 7th and doesn't give a monkeys what's underneath it or if its got invisibility cast on it or not.

The arguments I've seen for it not working against invisible units are all based on the select a target assumption which gloss over what's written in the necron codex and jump straight to beam being a template