overwatch and MC's

[freddieboe]

hope this one is a quick one.

I see alot of battlereports with MC's shooting all or two weapons on overwatch. miniwargaming im looking at you
But MC's can only shoot an extra weapon in shooting phase. Am i wrong?
same thing goes for tau multi-tracker it only works in shooting phase.

[Theik]

An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on.

That is all the rules really have to say on the matter. The problem is that it never really defines what "a shooting attack" is. It explains earlier on what happens in the shooting phase, but it never determines if a model shooting two weapons at the same target is a single attack. I can only imagine that a monster firing two weapons at their enemy is going to do so in a single go (despite the fact that you are rolling one weapon before the other, for clarity's sake), but the rulebook doesn't truly point out if this is one or two shooting attacks.

I've persoanlly always gone with the "shoot all the weapons you like" approach, as it makes more sense that way.

[Mad Cat]

If the rule said - "Monsterous creatures get to fire 2 weapons" then you would be allowed to fire both of them in overwatch but as you say it doesn't.

Overwatch happens in the assault phase of the enemy turn so not in your shooting phase and therefore you don't get the extra weapon.

[ShadowcatX]

To muddy the waters a bit. . .


“Typically, a model can only fire a single shooting weapon in the same phase, although some models, such as vehicles or monstrous creatures, can shoot two or more.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.

[hyudun]

To muddy the waters a bit. . .

“Typically, a model can only fire a single shooting weapon in the same phase, although some models, such as vehicles or monstrous creatures, can shoot two or more.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.

Yeah, the "in the same phase" part without specifying shooting phase, let alone who's shooting phase, has a strong implication that the ability to fire multiple weapons applies to all phases in which a shooting weapon may be fired.

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However, under Monstrous Creature in Unit Type it states:

"Monstrous Creatures can fire up to two of their weapons each Shooting phase" (emphasis mine).

I would interpret as such:
A Shooting Attack is an Attack made with ONE weapon.
Monstrous creatures can fire up to two weapons in the Shooting Phase - read as: Monstrous creatures can make two shooting attacks with two different weapons in the Shooting Phase.
Overwatch allows one Shooting Attack - so the MC is allowed to fire with ONE weapon since it's (1) not the Shooting Phase and (2) Overwatch only allows one Shooting Attack.

Barring any additional rules findings.

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I can't find an explicit definition for a shooting attack, but we do have these lines to possibly set a precedent:

"When a Gargantuan Creature or Flying Gargantuan Creature makes a shooting attack, it may fire each of its weapons at a different target if desired."
"When a Super-heavy vehicle makes a shooting attack...it may fire each of its weapons at different targets if desired."

Here we have a Shooting Attack being referred to as consisting of multiple weapons being fired, so point in favor of MC's firing two weapons in Overwatch as part of one Shooting Attack.

[SnakeChisler]

MC's get to shoot 2 weapons without any buffs involved

So you'd expect them to be able to shoot 2 in overwatch

There's a number of pieces of wargear which allow a 2nd weapon general view is you can't lump additional wargear into overwatch, a lot have wording which includes 'in the shooting phase' some specifically says not available in overwatch.

Then you get funnies like the Banner of devastation which pimps the 1 gun to salvo 2/4 and the TAU Ethereal which again is only pimping 1 gun.

Anyways to answer the question Dreads & MC's 2 anything else 1 no idea about super heavies or if they can overwatch at all

[Charistoph]

MC's get to shoot 2 weapons without any buffs involved

In the Shooting Phase. It is very specific.


So you'd expect them to be able to shoot 2 in overwatch

Which is NOT the Shooting Phase. So while you may expect it, the rules say otherwise.


There's a number of pieces of wargear which allow a 2nd weapon general view is you can't lump additional wargear into overwatch, a lot have wording which includes 'in the shooting phase' some specifically says not available in overwatch.

Just like the MC rule.


Then you get funnies like the Banner of devastation which pimps the 1 gun to salvo 2/4 and the TAU Ethereal which again is only pimping 1 gun.

Not the same thing at all. The first changes a weapon's Type, the other modifies the weapon's rate of fire.


Anyways to answer the question Dreads & MC's 2 anything else 1 no idea about super heavies or if they can overwatch at all

Actually, no. All the rules for allowing a unit to fire more than one weapon specify in the Shooting Phase. The only exception is the Gargantuans, which can't fire Overwatch, anyway.

The problem is the rule quoted above: "...a model can only fire a single shooting weapon in the same phase..." It then lists some exceptions which can do so in the Shooting Phase. None of which officially apply to the Assault Phase's Overwatch.

[daboarder]

Yeah the short answer is none of us have a ****ing clue.

Thers an old 30-40 page thread on this question tbat goes round and round. So thanks to GWs **** writing it coild be anything and is ultimately entirely groups/tournament dependent

[Charistoph]

Yeah the short answer is none of us have a ****ing clue.

Thers an old 30-40 page thread on this question tbat goes round and round. So thanks to GWs **** writing it coild be anything and is ultimately entirely groups/tournament dependent

Yeah, Copy & Paste combined with random edits do not a coherent product make.

[freddieboe]

Good thing we got a FAQ that answer all them small things :rolleyes:

[jenkatron]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?48639-Overwatch-from-a-Thunderfire-Cannon

Having heard both sides I can see why there is confusion but for me RAW is one gun over watch per model. Until something grants it the ability to fire more than one weapon "in over watch / any / every phase".