Playying against Necrons in Apocalypse

[Loken]

OK, I have a 3,000 point Apoc game tomorrow against a Necron player. I am a 12 year vet, but almost NEVER play against Necrons. I play Marines and will be taking a Deathwing heavy Marine force tomorrow (20 twin Lightning Claw guys +). A few questions, and any of your comments are welcome and appreciated.

QUESTIONS:

1) If you kill a Necron Lord with a Ressurrection Orb, does he get to use that Orb on himself the beginning if his turn?

2) Do all "We'll Be Back" rolls happen simultaneously? Meaning, if I killed 10 warriors with the Lord, and the Lord fails his WBB roll, do the Warriors still get their WBB roll? I assume the answer is yes.

3) What are considered "Necrons" for phase-out?

4) Are there any special rules for Necrons for Apoc I should know about? My opponent claimed Phase Out doesn't apply in Apoc and I called bull**** on that already.

LIST:

I am thinking of taking:

Warhound Titan with 2 Laser Blasters (Will set him up in the corner so limit ability to deep strike near him).

5 squads of Deathwing, 3 all LC and 2 mixed.

Belial

2 Chaplains

2 Ironclads in Lucius Pattern Drop Pods so they assault when they land. To take out Monoliths or his Pylon.

Deathstorm Drop Pod

Still have 500 points. Thinking of taking some tac squads in Drop Pods to get a "Strike Eagle" Formation and thus Careful Planning.


TACTICS:

Well, from what I read online I should:

1) Kill all Necrons so they phase out.

2) Take no vehicles


What else? And thanks in advance.

Alec

[WH40K_Fight_Club]

1) Yes. Pg 13 of the codex, the last paragraph, second to last sentence of necron lord states: ..Unless it or another necron lord with in 6''... It being the key word.

2.) Yes, if the Lord has a orb, and I don't see fielding a lord with out one.

3) HQ: Lord. Troops: Warriors. Elites: Immortals, Flayed ones. fast attack: Wraiths, Destoryers. Heavy Support: Heavy Destoryers.

4) As much as I played necron, I never played Apoco, but I'd double check that rule because I remember reading something about that in big rule book of apoco. Best check to make sure.

--Rusty

[Unlighted]

Quick note on We'll Be Back and how to bypass it.

If a Necron Lord with Res Orb is within 6 of the Necron unit (Warrior, Immortal, Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer, Flayed Ones) the Necron unit will get their We'll Be Back even if you're firing a D Strength weapon at them. As long as that Res Orb is around any weapon you use on the Necrons won't be a gauranteed knockout.

If your target doesn't have a Res Orb within 6 then you can use a double strength weapon to permanently knock them out. Warriors and Flayed Ones are T4 while all Destroyers and Immortals are T5 so plan accordingly. Also be aware that ranged attacks that ignore armor, but aren't double strength won't stop We'll Be Back.

If you get into CC and that Res Orb is far away then you can turn his units into permanent scrap with power weapons because any CC wound that ignores armor cancels WBB. Also double strength in CC still cancels We'll Be Back.

[Loken]

Good stuff! Thanks guys.

Alec

[Herald of Nurgle]

1: Yes
2: Yes
3: Models with the Necron special rule - so not C'Tan, Pariahs, Scarabs, Vehicles, Tomb Spyders
4: Anyone who plays Apoc with Necrons will ask for this as a house rule, and at this point they have the right to. Playing against Necrons with one of the younger codexes - especially those in 5th ed - gives you a huge competitive advantage which could only possibly be removed with the loss of Phase Out.
Jerks will say no, Fair people will say yes.
In either Apoc or Apocalypse reload, it says about recommended house rules. Lack of Phase Out is one of them, because it's no fun to lose all of your stuff in two turns (like one of my recent opponents did) is it and then be told 'oh yeah, those reserves you failed to put on? Well...'

[Loken]

4: Anyone who plays Apoc with Necrons will ask for this as a house rule, and at this point they have the right to. Playing against Necrons with one of the younger codexes - especially those in 5th ed - gives you a huge competitive advantage which could only possibly be removed with the loss of Phase Out.
Jerks will say no, Fair people will say yes.
In either Apoc or Apocalypse reload, it says about recommended house rules. Lack of Phase Out is one of them, because it's no fun to lose all of your stuff in two turns (like one of my recent opponents did) is it and then be told 'oh yeah, those reserves you failed to put on? Well...'

We discussed this, and in multiple player games (say 2 on 2 or 3 on 3) we would waive the Phase Out rule. But we have a small league the SC Battle Bunker is running and it is 3,000 points per person, 1 on 1 for 4 games during February. We decided that this is basically a big 40K game and so all rules apply. But when we do our big multi-person game at the end of the month, Phase Out will be eliminated, since multiple people could gang up on the Necron and that wouldn't be fun. But in a 1 on 1 small Apoc we see no reason to start changing rules.

[Fellend]

I'm kind of torn about the phase out rule. Because the balance of power takes that rule into account. Sure necrons will be back but if you kill enough of them, they sod off. It's a fair tactic.
I actually encountered this exact same situation. Having never played Necrons before I hadn't heard of the phase out rule. It came up halfway through the game.
And he claimed that apocalypse removed this rule. I called him on it and he couldn't find it in the book. He proceeded to whine about "well we were only allowed 3000 points each (i think) and I wanted to use 5 monoliths to get a Monolith of doom formation."
Well suuuure, you are allowed to do that. But it means that when those two squads of troops you took to fill minimum requirments die, You are out. And lets face it. It's easier to kills 2 squads of necron warriors than 5 monoliths.


On the other hand Black Templar refuses to ally with any psykers which means that either I can't play or my friends can't use their models which they've probably been dying to test in apocalypse formations.
I tend to compensate this by refusing to help my allies. Sticking to my side of the table and those that are dumb enough to walk into Helbrects circle of doom. (legendary relic, 9x S10 power attacks. Eat S**T and die xenoscum.)

So yeah. Come up with something that works for you. Maybe he gets to skip the phaseout rule but instead gets one less asset or your team starts with one more objective. Things can usually be discussed fairly if they are brought up BEFORE the game. No one likes to have it sprung on you.

[Loken]

Well, also Warriors are the ONLY Troop choice and only Troops can hold objectives. So if you don't take many Warriors to get all those Monoliths, you can't win anyway since you can't hold any objectives!

Alec

[Lord Anubis]

That's not actually true in Apocalypse.

As they brought up in the Reloaded book, that's a rule that changed after the Apocalypse release, and Apocalypse was created under the assumption that all units could hold objectives. It's silly that seven or eight grots could claim they hold an objective when there's a Warlord Titan standing next to it.

Just like the Phase Out rule, they stress that who can hold objectives in Apocalypse is something that has to be determined before the game begins to make sure everyone's on the same page.

[Loken]

You know, my bad, I forgot we had house rules that you have to have a WS in order to hold objectives.

[Loken]

Well, here is how it went:

He had the Monolith Phalanx, Pylon, 2 squads of 20 Warriors, one Lord, Squad of Destroyers, Squad of Immortals.

I had:

Warhound Titan with 2 Laser Blasters

3 sets of Inquisitors with Mystics in Rhinos.

5 squads of Termies (2- Assault with LC, 3 with PF and Heavy Weapons)

Damocles Rhino

2 Ironclads in Lucius Pattern Drop Pods so they assault when they land. To take out Monoliths or his Pylon.

Deathstorm Drop Pod

Turn 1

He goes first. Sets up nothing. So I do the same!

Turn 2

He Deepstrikes everything on one side of the board. Nothing to shoot at.

I move on Titan, Mystics in Rhinos two Dreads. Titan destorys Pylon and one Monolith. Dread # 1 gets in CC with Immortals (oops! Disruptor fields!) shoudl have charged Monolith. Dread # 2 cant assulat Pylon as it isnt there!

Turn 3

He moves on everything else in same area. Stuns and Immobilizes Dread # 2, Stuns Dread # 1

I blow up two Monoliths and game is over.


So thanks to everyone who helped educate me! We didnt even get to Phase Out worries. He put way too much faith in Phalanx and Pylon. In bigger games I think he does better.

Alec