Anyone else doing End Times?

[Mr Mystery]

Morning all!

So yeah, End Times - anyone started a new army for it, or otherwise dusting off and expanding existing stuff?

I wasn't, as originally intended to see what was on offer. But I caved, and have gone all Nurglesque (I've even stopped washing!).

So far got me Bloab and The Glottkin, and next month I reckon a couple of boxes of Putrid Blightkings, because I really like the Nurgle look they've got going on.

Anyone else?

[Darren Richardson]

well... the talk about endtimes got me interested again in WFB, but I decided to fix up a load of old dwarf and Lizardmen figure I had sitting around instead of collecting an entirely new army.

Though saying that I am working on a challange to build any army for £20 a month, it's hard but it can be done, to really prove the point it's and Orc & Goblin army, just got to get some green paint this weekend...

[Erik Setzer]

The ability to field combined Undead again was the push I needed to settle on a true "main" army for WFB (well, Orcs should be, but they're even more "meh" in WFB than in 40K). I'd tried a few armies, they all felt a bit odd, but then a touch of nostalgia and the idea of legions of Undead got me to make the plunge back in. Luckily, someone was also selling a huge mass of Undead, so I was able to get a bunch of models, with the most important part being that he'd assembled all the core troops and painted them pretty similar to the scheme I was using (Sylvania state troops), so all I have to do is touch those up and change some models to fit better, and no having to fiddle with more assembly (after doing something like 60 Skeletons and 40 Zombies, you start to lose the will to go on).

It's been interesting to play, and it's also added a bit of a new dynamic with people wondering whether to take advantage of extra points for Lords, though it's rare that anyone does so, unless they want to just try pulling out Nagash or another big, expensive character.

I've probably played more WFB since the Nagash book came out than I had in the year prior. And the Glottkin book will help my Chaos forces, because I wasn't as enthused with Daemons as I'd hoped I would be, and I have a bunch of Beastmen but practically no Core Units, and I like some of the Warriors models, so I can dust those guys off, add a few things, and switch out between Legions armies.

It's also interesting to try to figure out a narrative at times. On Saturday we had a few WFB players in the store, so we agreed to do a 2-vs-2 to get more people in on the action (have to do that with a store with only three gaming tables). One side was Lizardmen and High Elves, the other was my Undead Legions paired up with Chaos. My Undead Legion was a kind of "fun" list I threw together as a Strigoi horde (Ghoul King, Ghouls, Dire Wolves, Crypt Horrors, a Terrorgheist, and some other goodies) with a little Tomb Kings thrown in (Liche Priest and a unit of Archers). It's obvious why Lizards and High Elves would work together, but why would Chaos and Undead work together? Well, Strigoi aren't really ones to fall in line and support Nagash or the forces of Sylvania, and you can imagine the Liche Priest and his "bodyguards" being loaned to them by the newly risen Settra, who's still pretty upset. Boom, combo explained in a way that makes sense!

I haven't seen many of the big models on the field yet, really only Nagash so far, but I hope to get my Arkhan model done in the near future... I just want to get more basic models in the army done first so I can field a cohesive army, then move on to the projects that will take more effort (and Arkhan and the Morghast Archais will take more effort, definitely).

[Wildeybeast]

Karl Franz is getting dusted off for my empire army. He's been sat gathering dust pretty much since he was released as he has been to expensive to field in anything less than 3000 point games, not to mention being a bit vulnerable. Now he'll kill anything in the game and that toughness 5 with ten wounds will allow him to survive most things. Though I'm using him by prior agreement only as he's an absolute monster. Taking him to the field against my mates big Nurgle chaos hordes army on Saturday, so that should be fun.

[Houghten]

I'd been looking for an excuse to get a Sphinx for ages.

"I'll just summon it to the battlefield, no need to build a hundred skeletons" was the perfect opening.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through painting Neferata. I'll post pictures when I'm done. Amazing model! Very, uh, springy, though, because of the plastic and delicate pieces.

She's going to be joined by my take on the Army of the Silver Pinnacle, post-Lahmia battle in Nagash. Or, as I like to think of it, the Undead Legions misandry list. Parts of the army will be themed to align with the characters who are bringing them to the larger force: Neferata with Morghasts, skeletons and ghouls; a Tomb Princess with Tomb Guard and Skull Catapults; a mounted (leave it) martial vampiress with Black Knights, etc. etc.

I'm also going to do Vlad von Carstein and Krell, because they're wonderful models. Vlad is also the affable undead terror of my heart.

I should start a log. We all should!

[eldargal]

I've been working on my Vampire Counts and Neferata, not going overboard yet, waiting to see how End Times does re: wimmins.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm about 3/4 of the way through painting Neferata. I'll post pictures when I'm done. Amazing model! Very, uh, springy, though, because of the plastic and delicate pieces.

She's going to be joined by my take on the Army of the Silver Pinnacle, post-Lahmia battle in Nagash. Or, as I like to think of it, the Undead Legions misandry list. Parts of the army will be themed to align with the characters who are bringing them to the larger force: Neferata with Morghasts, skeletons and ghouls; a Tomb Princess with Tomb Guard and Skull Catapults; a mounted (leave it) martial vampiress with Black Knights, etc. etc.

I'm also going to do Vlad von Carstein and Krell, because they're wonderful models. Vlad is also the affable undead terror of my heart.

I should start a log. We all should!

Get an Indiana Jones model from somewhere, and have him running away from the wimmins - he is after all wearing a Fedora.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

He's one of the corpses on the bases that's being turned into a Spirit Host, clearly.

My reaction is to make it do well for wimmins, whatever the books say. :)

[Mr Mystery]

Heh!

Me, I'm bursting for payday to arrive so I can get me some of those Blightkings. The more I look at them, the more and more I like them!

Might do an all infantry army this time, as I'm normally Mr Monster when it comes to Warhammer.

[Erik Setzer]

Heh!

Me, I'm bursting for payday to arrive so I can get me some of those Blightkings. The more I look at them, the more and more I like them!

Might do an all infantry army this time, as I'm normally Mr Monster when it comes to Warhammer.


I feel bad with the Blight Kings... When I get around to doing my Chaos, I kind of want to include them because they look cool, and the concept is neat. But then I think about how they're based, and not being Monstrous Infantry means you don't full supporting attacks from a second rank, and even one rank is something like 230 points with command, and if they end up in front of Karl Franz Ascendant, they're just a tasty snack. Against a lot of things they're pretty strong though.

Rule of Cool might win out there. But other things like Warrior Chariots are competing in that same category, and the army can only take some much "Cool" before imploding. :-P

[Mr Mystery]

Defo a single rank unit - and a good foil for lots of light infantry type units, as they're incredibly tough and dead fighty - just what light infantry don't want to be facing!

[ACE01]

Well after a bit of a break from BOLS, hobby, and free time generally due to silly workload, I appear to have missed something about Fedora's...

That said, as a TK and VC collector, End Times is the perfect excuse to get back on track. I've a ton of models sat unbuilt in boxes or in varied states of assembly, so I've set myself a challenge to get built and painted a 1000 point force ready for gaming 23rd November.


I should start a log. We all should!

Stirling idea! To start with, Undead Goblins!

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?50621-ACE01-s-End-Times-begin!-A-plog-to-keep-me-motivated

[Death Shroud]

Haven't been interested in Fantasy for years. Now assembling a load of Slaaneshi daemons which will be used in either a combined chaos Slaanesh army led by Sigvald or a Dark Elf cult of Slaanesh army led by Morathi (if the rumours are true).

[Mr Mystery]

Next purchases planned

2 x Blightkings, 2 x Forsaken.

Gotta be gribbly, yo!

And I think at some point a decent dollop of Plaguebearers. Because BOGIES!

In fact, sod it. 4 x Plaguebearers too. Because they're unbreakable in a combined force :p

[Erik Setzer]

In fact, sod it. 4 x Plaguebearers too. Because they're unbreakable in a combined force :p

That's something I need an FAQ on ASAP. I figured the Chaos Ascendant rules were for specific scenarios, as that's what they say at the start of those rules, and there's no mention I could find in the Legions of Chaos rules to using the Chaos Ascendant rules. But the spell to summon daemons is in those rules, and in White Dwarf they said that any Legions of Chaos caster got that spell... which would suggest you *do* use Chaos Ascendant, which is just sickeningly powerful, especially if you do a mono-god list. But White Dwarf has been wrong before ("Battle Focus" instead of "Psychic Focus," calling the Orkanauts' rokkit launchas "twin-linked" when they aren't, calling Murderface McMurderpants' claws S8 when they weren't until they got errata'd to work properly, etc.).

So, I'm really wondering which it is. Because if you can use Chaos Ascendant... Well, I can imagine a lot of brutal scenarios with that.

[Wildeybeast]

My reading was the Chaos Ascendant rules fall into the same category as the city fighting rules; optional. The Chaos Legions list is explicitly allowed in any games, but the other rules say you can use them if you want. Playing against those rules creates a unique set of challenges and really should be agreed by participants beforehand.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I agree with Wildey on that.

Neferata's more or less finished, just need to do the basing. The Mortarchs are a pretty amazing kit, very cleverly done.

I dug out my brother's old Vampire Counts battalion he never really used, so I'm now building skeletons!

[ACE01]

I agree with Wildey on that.

Neferata's more or less finished, just need to do the basing. The Mortarchs are a pretty amazing kit, very cleverly done.

I dug out my brother's old Vampire Counts battalion he never really used, so I'm now building skeletons!

Have fun, they're SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than the old VC (current TK) ones. Actually quite pleasant.

-A-

[Darren Richardson]

Me personally I love the New Undead models, Espc Nagash, used to use him back in the day when he first came out....

But the Nurgle Chaos stuff leaves me cold, never have liked Nurgle, it just grosses me out to much to even want to put one together.

[Houghten]

the old VC (current TK) ones.

I thought those swords, axes, spears etc. looked suspiciously un-Nehekharan. I replaced all mine with Tomb Guard khopeshes painstakingly looted from Tomb Guard built with halberds.

[ACE01]

I thought those swords, axes, spears etc. looked suspiciously un-Nehekharan. I replaced all mine with Tomb Guard khopeshes painstakingly looted from Tomb Guard built with halberds.

When I have the time, I'd definitely like to go back and do that. It's the reason I built all of mine with spears!

[Wildeybeast]

I took KF Ascendant for a spin yesterday against my mates Daemon army. Watching him inflict a staggering 28 wounds on a Great Unclean One in a single round of combat has confirmed to me he is the hardest thing in Warhammer. Admittedly I got lucky and hit with all ten attacks and my mate only passed one ward save, but even so, I won't be using him in games without prior agreement, he is simply too hard to field regularly.

[Mr Mystery]

Eeep! Defo not something I think I'd ever want to face!

Well, not without prior knowledge....

Still planning this months splurge - have added Gutrot Spume, Fests and a Warshrine.

Hoping I may be able to use bits of the Blightkings to Nurgle up the Warshrine somewhat.

[Archon Charybdis]

End Times got me to finally take the plunge on the new Wood Elves models and managed to get my group to swing back to mostly Fantasy from 40k (we tend to go in cycles). I'm greatly looking forward to the possibility of using my WE and HE models together for a big horde of White Lions (with WWR models mixed in for effect) backed up by Wild Riders and Waywatchers. Sounds awesome.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Nice to know KF is as much of a beatstick as he should be. I think as we get more End Times level Lords in the game it'll even out a bit.

[Erik Setzer]

For me, just trying to keep up with rules is "splurging." Christmas is coming up and I haven't really gotten started on gifts (hard to when I don't know what to get folks), and my bills are all crying out to be paid, and we get Glottkin, then shortly after Leviathan for 40K, and now Khaine is coming out soon... yikes. I'd wait to buy something, but limited releases means I'll miss out, and with the ET books especially I don't want to (because who wants two sets of hardbacks on the shelf, then a softback, then back to hardbacks in a series?).

Khaine might get me to play Elves, since I can mix the different Elves I have, and get some of the neater Dark Elf stuff. But here's what we have to look forward to there: Imagine a unit of something like Phoenix Guard, or Swordmasters, or whatever the hardest unit of all the Elves is. In that unit is a bunch of really tough characters, maybe even a wizard or two. Just the nastiest combat characters you can make with those books. And then you have a High Elf Noble as a BSB with the Banner of the World Dragon in the unit. Boom, combined Elf Death Star with 2+ save against anything magical, including all Daemon attacks, all attacks from the Glottkin, all attacks from Nagash, all of Karl Franz's attacks (except Thunderstomp), etc.

[Houghten]

(because who wants two sets of hardbacks on the shelf, then a softback, then back to hardbacks in a series?)

Flog off the hardbacks while they're still Sold Out, use the money to buy Christmas presents, then get softbacks later?

[Erik Setzer]

Flog off the hardbacks while they're still Sold Out, use the money to buy Christmas presents, then get softbacks later?

I can afford presents, it's just hard to afford another hardback ET book already in addition to the presents. If I sell off my current ET books to get money to buy another hardback to look right on the shelf with them, it kind of defeats the purpose. :-P

I'll work something out, finagle my expenses around a bit, at least to keep going with the ET stuff.

I do actually have a second copy of ET: Nagash (bought a guy's Undead collection from him, he had the set), I might sell that and use the money to get ET: Pointy-Ears.

[pgarfunkle]

I've been watching the end times from a fluff perspective but haven't picked up any of the books yet, hopefully there will be reprints of the 1st 3 that I will pick up at some point down the line. I am definitely going to try to pick up a copy of the elves book and am hoping that the Lizards will feature in the series somewhere. Would love a decent Mazdamundi model down the line to use

[Mr Mystery]

I've been watching the end times from a fluff perspective but haven't picked up any of the books yet, hopefully there will be reprints of the 1st 3 that I will pick up at some point down the line. I am definitely going to try to pick up a copy of the elves book and am hoping that the Lizards will feature in the series somewhere. Would love a decent Mazdamundi model down the line to use

Lizard men are mass-migrating.....

Where to, I'm not sure. Likely the Southlands Jungle I'd wager.

[flipchuck]

I took KF Ascendant for a spin yesterday against my mates Daemon army. Watching him inflict a staggering 28 wounds on a Great Unclean One in a single round of combat has confirmed to me he is the hardest thing in Warhammer. Admittedly I got lucky and hit with all ten attacks and my mate only passed one ward save, but even so, I won't be using him in games without prior agreement, he is simply too hard to field regularly.

Are you kidding me? I say use him. Who cares if he's a bit powerful. Empire players FINALLY have a character that's on par with other powerful characters and monsters from other armies. You have beefed up choas warrior lords (with WS of 8+, A:5+ bad *** chaos powers), dragons, treemen etc in standard games (let alone End Time games) while most of our guys are mere WS:, S:, T: of 3 and our most powerful non special lord can only get a WS:6.

Then most arimes can get some kind of powerful monster of some kind. Dark elevs have large amount of monsters to choose from, undead have the zombie dragon for non special lords and those bat creatures, beastmen have their own big guys, orcs have trolls and a orc style dragon etc while Empire can only get a griffin for their lords which are not powerful compared to the other monsters out there.

So what if we have the steam tank or different cannons and such. Most of those are unrealible and either explode or misfire or just miss their shots most of the time.

What the beefed up Karl did to that demon, is usually common happenings to most of my Empire lords and heores. For years, other armies had uber powerful characters and monsters and now Empire finally has one. Might as well use him and give the other arimes a tatse of their own med's.

[Erik Setzer]

orcs have trolls and a orc style dragon etc while Empire can only get a griffin for their lords which are not powerful compared to the other monsters out there.

Orcs have Wyverns. Which aren't exactly tons more potent than a Griffin. And if you want to throw Trolls out there, I counter with Hippogyph Knights, which are faster, tougher, hit harder, and aren't Stupid.

Orcs are kind of in the same boat as the Empire, sans having the nice cannons to try to make up for it.

[flipchuck]

And the wyvern is a dragon like monster in which I believe can be used by non speical lords. As for cannons, again not as great as everyone thinks they are. In all the games in which I have used my great cannon in, the only thing I was ever able to hit before a misfire, was a goblin and I was aiming for him. The best overkill ever but really wasn't worth it in points. Your orc heroes and lords have better states then the empire lords and heroes. And your special charaxters are nothing to sneeze at.

But yeah, there are other armies that are in the same boat with Empire being overrunned by other more powerful armies with their uber powerful characters and monsters. But I really don't like it when we finally get something (and just one compared to the other armies with 2 or more) and the ones with the uber power armies start to complain. Its like they finally get a taste of their own meds and complain. "Take two and don't call me in the morning"

[Wildeybeast]

I haven't heard anyone complaining. He's killable, it just tricky to do. I like him, but when I know my friends don't have anyone to deal with him it seems a bit unfair to field him against them

[Learn2Eel]

People are still going on about Karl Franz Ascendant? Malekith's Eternity King Profile as well as Alarielle's Incarnate of Life profile are absolutely bonkers and put any of the other End Times characters to shame. I ran the numbers, Malekith obliterates Karl Franz Ascendant, Nagash, the Glottkin and pretty much any other uber melee character you can find while still being a Level 5 Wizard with Loremastery of arguably the best spell lore in the game, providing huge buffs to nearby Elves, allowing a single unit to make a free 20" move each turn which is just ludicrously good, having in-built miscast protection, immunity to Heroic Killing Blow and Multiple Wounds, a 2+ ward save against anything non-magical and providing a 24" Leadership 10 Inspiring Presence. It's insane to think he is only 1000 points, though I guess his equivalently-priced counter-part in Nagash does now have Loremastery of 5 spell lores to make up being inferior in every other way (other than summoning, obviously).

Alarielle is insane, for 190 points more than her current codex incarnation she gets a big stat buff, provides a 6+ ward save and immunity to both Fear and Terror as well as a ridiculous 4+ REGENERATION SAVE to all friendly Elf UNITS within 12", oh and don't forget she still keeps most of her special rules and magic items from the army book, has a better Touch of Purity rule that makes her a crazily-good monster hunter and she regenerates a single lost wound for every multi-wound model within 12" each turn, including herself, oh and she also gets to heal a second wound to any single character within 12" each turn as well! Insane....absolutely insane. Did I mention she is now a Level 5 Loremaster of Life that also has in-built miscast protection? She would be fine if she didn't provide Regeneration 4+ to herself and all friendly units within 12", combine that with the Banner of the World Dragon and it makes any given unit immortal. But hey, let's not forget that the only issue Elves suffer from is a lack of survivability which a bubble of 4+ Regeneration effectively turns right on its head....never mind that! Combine her with Razor Standard-equipped Black Guard or Witch Elf unit in the "survivor" army list (where they get Martial Prowess and Murderous Prowess) and watch the carnage as the Stubborn Leadership 10 (in the case of the Black Guard) unit just mulches through anything and everything that comes its way.

While most of the End Times characters so far barring Nagash, Karl Franz Ascendant and arguably Mannfred have all been balanced or at least had a points cost to match their abilities, some of the new Elf ones are over-powered to a ridiculous degree. Of course, I'm not complaining...I get to use them! Mwahahaha! But seriously, at least Malekith is now as powerful as he has always been in the background, and it is nice to see the rules designers have given Alarielle not one or two but THREE awesome profiles for us to use, clearly they really wanted to do the Everqueen justice which gets a big thumbs up from me!

[flipchuck]

I rest my case....

[eldargal]

Tempted to make an Everqueen led army of Sisters of Avelorn, Witch Elves, Sisters of Slaughter and treemen and treekin.

[Mr Mystery]

Tempted to make an Everqueen led army of Sisters of Avelorn, Witch Elves, Sisters of Slaughter and treemen and treekin.

Do it!

And Stag Riding Ladies of Athel Loren.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Worth considering in the Nagash-Malekith debate is that Malekith can't summon whole armies of extra troops, and only knows one spell lore. Nagash has, what, thirty-six spells available to him in Magic of the End Times? Split across Death, Undeath, Vampires, Nehekhara and Light?

[Darren Richardson]

True but Nagash is a Demi-God, while Malekith just a near imortal elf....

[Mr Mystery]

Almost finished Khaine!

Really, really enjoying it so far.

Also been building Putrid Blightkings. Really nifty kit, with lots of options to be played around with. Defo worth getting one if you like Nurgle.

[flipchuck]

I manged to pick up all 3 End Times book during Christmas. I was given book 3 as a birthday gift. After boxing day, I picked up Book 1 and 2 and Karl Franz at my local GW store. All were soft cover. :)
So now, I'm playing catch up.

[Erik Setzer]

I manged to pick up all 3 End Times book during Christmas. I was given book 3 as a birthday gift. After boxing day, I picked up Book 1 and 2 and Karl Franz at my local GW store. All were soft cover. :)
So now, I'm playing catch up.

Karl Franz Ascendant is a total badass.

Malekith the Eternity King... not so much. At least, not in combat. He's nice with Shadow magic (although you have to rely on the Khaine magic rules), and he can step all over infantry units, but he doesn't have a ward save against magic attacks, and he doesn't ignore armor or anything with his own attacks, so a Vampire Lord or Chaos Lord with some potent gear can just tear him up.

[Mr Mystery]

Malekith isn't tied to the Khaine Magic Rules if the scenario doesn't use them duder.

[Erik Setzer]

Malekith isn't tied to the Khaine Magic Rules if the scenario doesn't use them duder.

Yeah, he is, if you're using his rules as the Eternity King. If you use any of the Elf characters or army lists from Khaine, you *have* to use the Khaine magic rules (unless you and your opponent agree to ignore the rules).

Then again, heck, if your opponent says he wants to use those magic rules, you have to use them, or just not play against that person.

They're not bad, so I'd play with them in a crazy game, but they do make magic a lot less reliable.

One set of rules that IS tied to scenarios and not lists is Chaos Ascendant, where I keep running into Chaos players wanting to use those rules outside of specific scenarios, and I'm not dumb enough to give them even more of an advantage. The one game that actually annoyed me most, though, was when a Chaos player tried to argue that he should get to use them in a "teaching" game against a guy with Bretonnians. The Chaos player was running a Chaos Warriors list, no Daemons or Beastmen (and the list was basically a "beatstick" list already). Yeah, um, no thanks.

[Learn2Eel]

Karl Franz Ascendant is a total badass.

Malekith the Eternity King... not so much. At least, not in combat. He's nice with Shadow magic (although you have to rely on the Khaine magic rules), and he can step all over infantry units, but he doesn't have a ward save against magic attacks, and he doesn't ignore armor or anything with his own attacks, so a Vampire Lord or Chaos Lord with some potent gear can just tear him up.

Uh, you do realize Malekith actually beats Karl Franz Ascendant in combat, right? Immunity to Heroic Killing Blow and Multiple Wounds practically guarantees that. There are ways to stop Malekith but combat is generally not one of them. The only thing that Karl Franz Ascendant is better at killing than Malekith is well armoured monstrous cavalry, otherwise Malekith craps all over him as he re-rolls everything with ten attacks. Even a 1+ armour save is reduced to a 4+ by Malekith, so when he usually hits and wounds with the vast majority of his ten attacks and each one does D3+1 Wounds...yeah, you bring your characters to him and he will munch them. Don't forget he can always Mindrazor himself as well and make anything and everything short of a unit with the Banner of the World Dragon his play-things (and even then, that is what the Breath Weapon and Thunderstomp are for).

A Vampire Lord or Chaos Lord with potent gear will get their behinds handed to them by Malekith. He statistically kills both of them as soon as he gets just one unsaved wound through....which he will when he re-rolls all failed to hit and all failed to wound rolls with ten Strength 6 attacks. A 1+ armour save is reduced to a 4+ armour save against Malekith, so that's little comfort. About the only Chaos Lord build that has a chance of stopping Malekith is the Tzeentch 3+ ward re-rolling 1s build, but even that is likely to fall in about two rounds of combat. The joys of a sword that does D3+1 wounds...

I don't think you understand how good Malekith is with the Khaine Magic rules. Yes, it means enemies can spam magic missiles and direct damage spells at him (which are his actual weakness) but it also means he re-rolls all casting attempts. He's pretty much the most efficient wizard in the game with End Times Magic because he can always re-roll his casting attempts - failed or successful, meaning he will almost never miscast unless you want him to - and his Circlet provides him with an extra power dice to throw at the first failed cast or dispel attempt each magic phase, which he can also re-roll due to his Loremaster rule. Don't forget that Malekith is the king of mobility, more-so than any other model in the game (unless you count Van Hels spam) with the Lore of Shadow spells and his Incarnate of Shadow rule. Going off an earlier comment, this also makes it hilariously easy for him to Mindrazor himself and say "I win" to any other combat character in the game.

Again, there are ways to counter Malekith, but combat is definitely not one of them; in most cases, he is scarier than Karl Franz Ascendant there because he is incapable of fluffing his rolls. He also makes all nearby Elves into living gods of close combat while being one of the best wizards in the game himself as well as being immune to most war machines.

[Mr Mystery]

Downside is that Mindrazor precludes the use of magic weapons. But he's still S6!

But I agree - it's his potential with the rest of the pointy ears that makes him nasty. Spesh if he can drop a bit of mindrazor on them. I once had my horde of Ogres attacked by mindrazored Witch Elves - it was like a lawnmower on a Dog Egg. Bits of Ogre everywhere!

[Erik Setzer]

Yeah... I saw him get ROFLstomped by Archaon in combat. That whole thing with not ignoring armor saves, and not really having a save against certain types of weapons, is not cool. KFA will hit Malekith a good number of times, and each hit is an auto-wound. Even if it's just one wound each, they're getting through. Malekith will hit KFA a lot, but then still has to wound, and KFA gets decent saves against them.

And using the idea of "Well, he can Mindrazor himself" or whatever... that's still using magic. And my point is that magic is what he's good at. He can't go toe-to-toe with the nastier characters out there. I guess that makes sense, as he did get smacked around when he tried in the book. He can wreck units, and monsters (as long as they aren't Daemons), but a dedicated combat character can give him trouble. He has a serious weakness in that he only has a 3+ armor save against magical attacks, no ward save at all. His only ward save protects against non-magic attacks. Which, again, makes him ideal for mulching basic units, but a character with a strong magic weapon (or some other kind of magic attack) will just chew into him, with no way for him to save against the attacks.

[Darren Richardson]

ummm has anyone been paying attention to GW's site????

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/What%27s-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2014/12/12/Are-you-ready-for-the-eTimes

They've Confirmed End Times are now available as eBooks, for those that way inclined.

[Learn2Eel]

Downside is that Mindrazor precludes the use of magic weapons. But he's still S6!

But I agree - it's his potential with the rest of the pointy ears that makes him nasty. Spesh if he can drop a bit of mindrazor on them. I once had my horde of Ogres attacked by mindrazored Witch Elves - it was like a lawnmower on a Dog Egg. Bits of Ogre everywhere!

It does? The only thing I see is that strength bonuses from weapons are ignored if a unit is under the effect of Mindrazor, I don't see anything about it affecting magic weapons specifically. Malekith's blade would still work as it doesn't increase his Strength value, it just attaches the Multiple Wounds (D3+1) special rule to his attacks.

That's pretty much it. Even basic Elf Spearmen or Swordsmen can annihilate pretty much anything when they have Mindrazor.


Yeah... I saw him get ROFLstomped by Archaon in combat. That whole thing with not ignoring armor saves, and not really having a save against certain types of weapons, is not cool. KFA will hit Malekith a good number of times, and each hit is an auto-wound. Even if it's just one wound each, they're getting through. Malekith will hit KFA a lot, but then still has to wound, and KFA gets decent saves against them.

And using the idea of "Well, he can Mindrazor himself" or whatever... that's still using magic. And my point is that magic is what he's good at. He can't go toe-to-toe with the nastier characters out there. I guess that makes sense, as he did get smacked around when he tried in the book. He can wreck units, and monsters (as long as they aren't Daemons), but a dedicated combat character can give him trouble. He has a serious weakness in that he only has a 3+ armor save against magical attacks, no ward save at all. His only ward save protects against non-magic attacks. Which, again, makes him ideal for mulching basic units, but a character with a strong magic weapon (or some other kind of magic attack) will just chew into him, with no way for him to save against the attacks.

How does Archaeon beat Malekith the Eternity King, exactly? If we run the numbers, Malekith needs 5s to hit Archaeon and then 3s to wound, re-rolling all failed to-hit and to-wound rolls with 10 attacks. When we round all fractions to their nearest values (if I make a mistake feel free to correct me) Malekith strikes first and averages roughly 5 hits and 5 wounds per phase, if we assume Archaeon is on Dorghar then his 1+ armour save is down-graded to a 4+ (Strength 6), and he then gets his 3+ ward save. He should fail a saving throw roughly once each phase, meaning Malekith will do at the very least two unsaved wounds per phase due to his D3+1 wounding sword. When Archaeon strikes back, he needs 3s to hit and then 5s to wound with 10 attacks - he does not get re-rolls to hit against Malekith, nor does his sword give him any bonus to his Strength value; it just ignores armour saves. That's roughly 7 hits and 3 wounds done to Malekith who gets no saves (Archaeon is Strength 5 versus Malekith's Toughness 6). Malekith kills Archaeon in two-three rounds of combat, Archaeon kills Malekith in four rounds of combat assuming average rolls; don't forget that I'm not even accounting for the hits Archaeon will suffer from his sword when he rolls 1s to hit.

The cold hard numbers favour Malekith when it comes to fighting Karl Franz Ascendant as well. His 10 attacks need 3s to hit KFA (Malekith is WS8, KFA is WS7) and he re-rolls everything from to-hits to to-wounds, meaning he averages around 9 hits, then needs 3s to wound (Strength 6 versus Toughness 5) with re-rolls, averaging 8 wounds. KFA only has a 3+ armour save which is reduced to a 6+ by Malekith's Strength 6, meaning he passes 1 of the 8, leaving 7 4+ ward saves for him to take. If we round-up in favour of KFA, he suffers 3 unsaved wounds which are each multiplied into D3+1 by Malekith's sword. That's an average of 9 unsaved wounds once they are multiplied, meaning KFA dies in 1 round of combat to Malekith before he even gets to strike (unless I'm mistaken, KFA has 9 wounds base). Even if KFA gets to strike back against Malekith - which he won't assuming average rolls - he still only does 5 wounds to the 10 wound monster before Malekith kills him anyway. Don't forget that the two are only 190 points different to each other, and Malekith is a Level 5 Wizard with some of the most insane support abilities in the game.

Malekith is a Level 5 Wizard that is a Loremaster (which is absolutely insane in End Times Magic) and adds one free dice (which he can also re-roll) to his first failed casting and dispel attempts each phase. As I've proven even without considering how good he is with magic, he CAN go toe-to-toe with the nastier characters; easily, so much so that he annihilates KFA, Tyrion (with the Widowmaker) and Nagash in one round of combat. He beats out Archaeon, and he also absolutely monsters the Glottkin who are completely incapable of even harming Malekith outside of the magic phase as they lack magical attacks. The only characters with magic weapons that have a chance of surviving to even consider dealing damage to Malekith usually cost in the 700 point range; 500 point Blender Vampire Lord builds get KO'd in one round by Malekith and don't do nearly enough to stop him once he reaches the enemy battle lines. In fact, the standard Strength 7/Quickblood/Red Fury Blender Lord only averages 3 wounds per phase to Malekith due to needing 4s to hit with no re-rolls, and needing 3s to wound. If we round-up, the Blender Lord gets 3 hits out of the 5 attacks, of which 2 wound (Strength 7 versus Toughness 6), generating an extra 2 attacks. One of the 2 attacks hits, then proceeds to wound, meaning Malekith suffers a total of 3 wounds from a Blender Lord per phase assuming average rolls. I don't need to show you the numbers to tell you that Malekith insta-gibs the Blender Lord simultaneously. Considering the Blender Lord is widely considered the best generic combat character in the game, and Malekith stomps all of the named heavy-weights listed above, I think it is safe to say he is easily one of the top three combat characters in the game. I've not even been accounting for his Breath Weapon or Thunderstomp (where applicable).

I've run the numbers and both put Malekith to use and seen him in action; he is absolutely terrifying and while not as game-breaking as Nagash with End Times Magic, he comes very close as outside of spamming magic spells you simply can't pin him down. Pray you aren't playing a big enough game where the HotEK player is also using Alarielle, Incarnate of Life, it's just bonkers. If Malekith lacked mobility then he would be manageable, unfortunately as a flying monster that is better with Shadow magic than anyone else and gets to freely move any friendly unit 20" a turn without needing to cast a spell, good luck getting him into a vulnerable position as any decent Dark Elf player in particular will absolutely dominate the Movement phase with him.

[Darren Richardson]

Hmm, just been reading the Be'Lakor Battle Scroll put out Christmas 2013, and I just noticed they really heavily dropped a big hint that they were gonna do the End Times sometime in 2014, how the hell did we all miss that?

[Wildeybeast]

I haven't read it. What exactly was the hint?

[Mr Mystery]

Yes, tells us!

Also explains why Archaon, and indeed Abaddon haven't achieved Daemonhood. Belakor was the one and only raised up by all four powers, and it made him impossible to control!

[Darren Richardson]

It's quite plan in retrospective....


Hark well, as I tell you the tale of Be’lakor First-Damned, may his forgotten true-name be forever cursed. In his arrogance, he drew the gaze of the Chaos Gods to this world, bringing damnation upon us all.’
- Frederich Weirde, Chronicler of the End Times

It's in the Character Background section, which also features a short story featuring a certain vamp searching for certain books, who aslo briefly appears in the Restless Dead Battle Scroll too....

Heck I even found in a Battle Report whay back in WD Monthly Issue 380 printed in August 2011 that a certain Tratior was operating in the Empire, damn Gelt to eternal damnation.....

[Harbinger Rising]

^^ Interesting, but it's not entirely and End Times reference really?

I love how the guy's name is 'Weirde'. I suppose he has a lot of trouble with people taking him seriously around Altdorf :p

[Morgrim]

I was planning on joining in End Times as soon as I got my finances sorted, but since I play lizardmen the rumours have poured cold water on that. No way am I wanting to build up my small force into something interesting if it is about to be squatted.

I'm not even sure why it would be lizardmen on the chopping block, as far as IP goes they're a heck of a lot more secure than any of the human or even elvish factions.

[Erik Setzer]

I'm not even sure why it would be lizardmen on the chopping block, as far as IP goes they're a heck of a lot more secure than any of the human or even elvish factions.

Well... there's an interesting thing there.

Waaaaay back in the day, when GW was about to release Warhammer 5th edition with the new Bretonnia and Lizardmen armies added to the game (and in the box set), they were actually advertising the new edition and the coming armies. And some other company apparently got the bright idea to rush a bunch of lizard-people models to market before those were officially released. That was the catalyst for the concern about announcing stuff early and someone releasing a competing product first (which built into full-on paranoia).

So if any army was going to be thrown in front of the speeding IP train, Lizardmen would be one of the chief candidates, because they kind of started it all.

Not that I agree with that concept, and I don't think that other company actually hurt GW's sales at all.

(I don't even remember who that other company was, so I'm thinking their release couldn't have been that great. But that was nearly 20 years ago, so memory isn't that great on details anyway.)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Oi! This thing still on?

I left Neferata and 20 skeletons back in the UK, but now I've got Nagash, an X-Acto blade and a will to build. Who's still with me?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I did buy up a load of the new Spirit hosts as I absolutely love those models - but I'm really tempted to make them 40k energy based xenos.

[White Tiger88]

I am tempted but it depends what is in the new book for the everchosen list ;)

[Mr Mystery]

My cousin's sister's brother's teacher's manicurist's uncle's poodle's mother's owner once saw Andy Chambers via the Hubble Space Telescope, and I'm reliably informed it's going to be Chaos, Chaos, Chaos and Chaos, with a side order of Chaos.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I imagine it'll be like the Legion of Chaos list, but with all the stuff in the Archaon book added (and no Glottkin, One-Eye, Malagor and any other "dead" characters).

[SadisticMagician]

I've started Nurgle Chaos! Got Gutrot Spume, a Bray Shaman and a block of Chaos Warriors on the go. I'd LOVE to do Skaven but I don't really have time to paint a few warriors, let alone a million clanrats

[Erik Setzer]

I'd LOVE to do Skaven but I don't really have time to paint a few warriors, let alone a million clanrats

Paintig Skaven, in a nutshell:

1. Paint base colors on the model.
2. Wash it all with Agrax Earthshade.
3. Base it.

Seriously. At the time I did them, there was no Agrax Earthshade (or Nuln Oil) from GW, but I painted my dad's Skaven army (now mine) using that basic plan but with Tamiya Smoke for a lot of core units (Clanrats, Stormvermin, Plague Monks), just putting a bit more effort into units like Gutter Runners or Jezzails.

Similar method works for Orcs and Beastmen.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yeah. The beauty of Warhammer is that you can get a good looking unit a lot easier than you'd think: the fact they're ranked up in base-to-base means that just a little painting attention can go a long way. There was a good White Dwarf tutorial on painting a Savage Orc unit when those came out which did nothing more than base-colour-and-wash on the back-rankers, and showed how good it looks even so. And then you can add more detail as you go along and as you fancy (which is what, say, Ben Curry seems to do).

Happy to hear there's some Nurgle action going! My brother's got some Tzeentch warriors with Daemons on the go.

[Azrael71]

I am starting to play. It s great that an undead army could be played again i missed those days when the two armies TK an VC were one and now they are back it's glory days again. Will be having a 5000 point game vs dark elves and high elf armies should be fun.