1850pts Khorne Themed CSM army list

[azog4]

Hey guys! This is my first post in this forum, so I apologise if anything is done poorly! :p The theme for my army is a VERY fluff-based Khorne army. Just wanna know what you think and if you forsee any shortcomings with my list. Thanks in advance!

Main Force
HQ
Kharn the Betrayer - 160pts
Daemon Prince w MoK, Wings, Power Armour, Axe of Blind Fury - 255pts

Troops
20-man Khorne Berzerker Squad w Twin Lightning Claws - 420pts
9-man Khorne Berzerker Squad w Power Fist - 206pts
10-man Khorne Berzerker Squad w Power Axe - 215pts

Dedicated Transport (to carry Kharn and the 9-man into battle)
Chaos Rhino - 35pts

Heavy Support
3-man Obliterator Squad - 210pts

Allied Detachment
HQ
Bloodthirster - 250pts

Troops
10-man Bloodletter squad - 100pts

TOTAL: 1851 points

Please keep in mind, this army isn't aimed to win every competition it enters, it's purely for the enjoyment factor of dozens or bloodthirsty berzerkers streaming across the board, and *hopefully* my opponent wetting themselves :P I'm also unsure if the *one* point over the points limit would be allowed, or if I have to shave a zerker, and adjust things slightly. Please let me know! I hope you enjoyed reading, and I welcome any and all comments you have :D BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!!!

[Lord Krungharr]

Welcome! I would say drop the Daemon Prince of Khorne, you've got the Bloodthirster. I find the Axe of Blind Fury to work the best on a Lord on a juggernaut or even on foot (you'll need 5 spawn to escort the juggernaut across the table however). As fun as a 20 man Bezerker squad is, such a huge walking unit would greatly benefit from Huron Blackheart's infiltrating warlord trait, and being from the Red Corsairs, kinda suitable for a Khornate army. He's pretty good in combat too, and actually hits hard with Kharn vs Knights (both have armorbane!)

Do you have a Land Raider? That would almost be a must have for a Khorne army like this. I love my Obliterators, but they could be switched out for the LR. Then you could have Kharn, a foot Axe Lord, and 8 Berzerkers in there, and another 10 in a Rhino.

So I might recommend:

Kharn
Huron
20 Berzekers
10 Berzerkers/Rhino (dozer blade/dirge caster)
Land Raider (dozer blade/dirge caster)
Bloodthirster (2 Greater Rewards/1 Lesser Reward)
10 Bloodletters

1595...........plenty of points for upgrades or another unit like Obliterators or 2nd Land Raider!

You could easily substitute Huron for an Axe Lord on foot or juggernaut, get some spawn if needed for the jugger....but if no Huron I would take 2 or 3 smaller Berzerker units in Rhinos instead (save 1 for the Land Raider); and maybe a Heldrake or Maulerfiend, or even some Flesh Hounds for the Daemonic Allies (great for line breaker/outflanking)

[Mad Cat]

I would take a look at the humble CSM with MoK, IoK and extra CCW in place of berserkers. Yes you loose WS5 and fearless but your units each gain 2 meltaguns and have bolters too making them able to defend or thin out the enemy at 12" range etc. Ever tried trying to thin out a gene stealer wave with bolt pistols? Not good.

Khorn CSMs have a lot more functions than simply charging into combat and of course they can still do that but the multirole facility to take on tanks or defend objectives and still contribute to the fight make them well worth while.

[azog4]

I would take a look at the humble CSM with MoK, IoK and extra CCW in place of berserkers.

I've read this multiple times in previous forum threads, and I see what you're getting at. However, it sorta ruins the fluffiness of my army, aside from the fact that I consider the extra weapon skill and Fearless and Furious Charge worth the extra 4 points per model (taking out 2 points per model for MoK). Sure, Zerkers are less versatile, they're very much a one-trick pony, but that one trick they do, they do rather well. Thanks for your feedback though, I really appreciate your oppinion :)


I would say drop the Daemon Prince of Khorne, you've got the Bloodthirster. I find the Axe of Blind Fury to work the best on a Lord on a juggernaut or even on foot.

That's a reasonable idea. I do have a Termi Chaos Lord with an Axe, so that's an option. I also have a squad of termi's I could run as bodyguard/cannon fodder for the Lord. The Lord is also about 100pts cheaper than the Daemon Prince, giving me a few more points to play around with. On the downside, the Rage USR is sort of lost on the Lord, as he will already have a MoK, whereas the Daemon Prince isn't privy to such an upgrade.

The next issue is the Land Raider. I don't yet have a Chaos one, but am definitely considering one. I am upset by the fact that Chaos LR don't have the versatility of those of their Loyalist brethren (i.e. Crusader, Redeemer, etc.), which has made me hesitate going down that road to date. I'm thinking I'll probably break the 20-man squad into 2 smaller, 10-man squads. This makes them more versatile, at the cost of a few points, and hopefully prevents a less significant part of my army from getting bogged down in combat. Speaking of versatility, that's the reason I love my Oblits, the weapons options keep it fresh, even if you can't use the same weapon twice in a row. Between Plasma Cannons and Assault Cannons for Infantry, and Lascannons or Melta weapons for vehicles, not to mention they're pretty robust, means that they're a great fire support for my berserkers as they run up the field.

Lastly, a Heldrake is something I've been looking into getting for some time, particularly after getting burned last year with the sheer number of flyers everybody was using. However, since 6.5th Ed (or whatever) they seem to have been nerfed slightly and now I'm hesitating. I'm hoping my two FMC's will deal with most aerial threats that I face in the future. Thanks to you too for your input, I will definitely look into this LR affair, and maybe I'll fiddle around a bit with the Daemon side of my list.

On a final note, I was able to play a few games with some friends today, using the above list, with varied results.
-First game was against pure Daemons army, 5 flying Monstrous Creatures and a handful of lesser demons. I was winning up until the last turn, where 12 Warp Charges were enough to remove my last remaining models from the board, completely turning the tides of the battle.
-Second game was against a CSM army, with a dose of Possessed, a Nurgle Daemon Prince and Nurgle Sorcerer. This time I succeeded in tabling my opponent in just shy of 5 turns.
WHAT DID I LEARN?
-That I absolutely, positively, resolutely HATE all forms of Psykers, particularly those using Biomancy.
-Bloodletters really aren't particularly effective against other Daemons, rather underwhelming... Possibly swap out Daemon allies for Land Raider in future games.
-Kharn is a freaking GOD! Managed to kill the Nurgle Daemon Prince in 1 turn of combat, only losing a single wound, among other feats of grandeur...

[Lord Krungharr]

Ha! Yes, Kharn is always fun to use. The hitting on 2+ is so awesome!

Psychic powers are definitely annoying sometimes, especially with so many armies depending on them, and using so many of them, and winning because of them :) It's refreshing to not even have a psychic phase. I almost wanna play against Necrons sometimes just because of that.

Bloodletters unfortunately got nerfed with only 1 base attack now. Not sure why they thought that was necessary. But they can work vs most other armies. Outflank 20 of them with Karanak. That would be fun.

For anti-air, you can either just not worry about it and pay the tax, or go with the Hades AC Drake.....or Hellblade. Both are good, though the Drake is more durable of course. With the 7th changes to FMCs, I almost wouldn't have my Bloodthirster in the air as he needs to get into assault, so just jump him up behind terrain or the Land Raider, which you should get for a Khorne CSM army. Yeah it's not as versatile as the Imperium's styles, but it gets your heavy hitter(s) where they need to be.

MoK CSMs do get the special weapons, but I agree, Bezerkers are more fluffy, and they can take plasma pistols, that's something. I think the Champion could still take a combi-melta can't he? Either unit would wanna charge after shooting anyways; though I do remember those super old World Eaters had bolters.

[daboarder]

Consider a raider (or spartan) for Kharne and his buddies. Give is one of the AWESOME legacies that are khorne specific while you're at it. The 12 FNP bubble is my favourite, like the IoE it makes khorne units as statistically tough or tougher as Nurgle units in most situatioons.

[Lord Krungharr]

Ooh, I just read the Spartan rules, that's a huge spicy meatball! 25 models is an amazing capacity, and with armored ceramite it would be tough for enemy melta to do much at all. Perfect for delivery of the precious cargo to the backfield.

I wish the Ordnance rules didn't make all other weapons fire snap shots, that screws over some other vehicle upgrades on some of the cool new IA13 flyers too.

[daboarder]

Ooh, I just read the Spartan rules, that's a huge spicy meatball! 25 models is an amazing capacity, and with armored ceramite it would be tough for enemy melta to do much at all. Perfect for delivery of the precious cargo to the backfield.

I wish the Ordnance rules didn't make all other weapons fire snap shots, that screws over some other vehicle upgrades on some of the cool new IA13 flyers too.

which flyers have ordnance?

[Mad Cat]

Hellstrike missiles are common on many flyers and they are Ordnance. The Valkyrie for example unless you upgrade them to ricket pods.

[daboarder]

sure, but I don't tink any of the chaos fliers have access to them do they?

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, the Thunderhawk and Fire Raptor come with Hellstrike Missiles, so it's almost a requirement to either not use them (and you could really only want to use 1 of them per turn since Ordnance....) or to exchange them for an upgrade of some sort. It would be nice to have some good anti-air Str 8 and be able to fire the big D-cannon on the Thunderhawk in the same turn

[Mad Cat]

Note the Thunderhawk is a super-heavy and can therefore fire ordnance missiles without making other weapons snap fire.

I don't think the fire raptor is though and without POTMS it is tricky to justify firing a hellstrike.

[Filthspew]

Going back to the first post question :)

Demon Prince is way overpriced and too fragile, and cannot charge when he lands. Pass on him.
Bloodthirster lost a lot with land and charge the turn after, so Id look elsewhere for cost effectiveness, but as fluff and coolness goes, he is awesome.

Bezerkers die as any other power armor, but are way more expensive. Get at least one landraider, or maybe even two. Or one landraider and one Spartan, if Forge World is an option.

I really like the 20 Bezerkers running skreaming psychopath across the board, not the most effective but it has stule and might just also psyche out opponents sometimes. If you do this, matbe look towards three units of say 15. You dont want to overkill too much.

You need to deal with AV 12 and even AV 13 in cc. Getting those Bezerkers caught by a 100 pts Dread is just a bad day at the Chaos office. You look towards Demon allies, the Soulgrinder in the Khorne variant is a freaking steal! AV 13 and massive CC punch, 5++ save and more for the same price as a maulerfiend with tendrils. But saturation says you should have at least two AV threats, so I would suggest pairing it with a twin or a Maulerfiend for variation.

Finally, you should never overlook Cultists. Cheap as dirt, get a small unit or two to sit on objectives in cover or out of sight. Or 20+ guys with flamers to charge, especially with a lord (Fearless). Mark of Khorne is relatively cheap on them, but not necesary, and they can be a great surprise for even seasoned opponents.

[Katharon]

I'd drop the Allied Detachment and buy more transports for all but your big blob of 'Zerkers.

[Denzark]

For me Katharon has it. Drop the allies, and get transports. The 20 mob of zerkers is fearsome, spelt T-A-R-G-E-T! If you could sub in a Spartan they would all get on board.

Next comment - the Oblits are the only unfluffy thing about this list. They are the only unit which screams 'attempt to be competitive'. You could use them to recapture some points - they're not hugely Khorne.

Next - Kharn. If you stick him in a Rhino he ain't charging until turn 3. This is wrong for Kharn. You need some sort of assault vehicle so I would again look to Raptor (but still turn 3) or LR, to get him in as quick as possible.

I echo the comments about Lord on jugger with axe of blind hitty. He is awesome. Just remember to get the 4++ upgrade to insure your points somewhat against insta-gib.

Good luck and remember, Khorne cares not from whence the skulls flow.