Glottkin - Spolierific Discussion

[Mr Mystery]

Morning all.

Just a groovy little place holder until later, when I get my (disappoingly not diseased) mitts on the book.

Expect it to be like all my other gibbering threads - incomplete, incoherent, but largely fun!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Detached, preliminary thoughts. More later.

If you strike the Emperor down, he'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Kurt Helborg! Louen Leoncouer! Noooo~!

(Louen wasn't dead, now he is!)

Half the population of the Empire.

Most of the military strength of Bretonnia.

Vlad von Carstein, Elector Count of the Empire.

Festus!

The Imperial dragon!

Archaon comes.

[daboarder]

so have they murdered brettonia yet? or they still hoping to sell the last few kits first?

[Mr Mystery]

The King is dead, but the proper proper King of Kingly Shiny Kingliness, and founder of the Kingly Kingdom is all back and stuff.

And probably immortal.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The focus of this book is all on the Empire. We know what's happened in Bretonnia up to the end of the current timeline; it was in Nagash. The Bretonnians sent a massive crusade to the aid of Altdorf; a lot of it isn't making its way back. So it's still there and Gilles is still the king.

Louen is recorded as "High Paladin Louen".

[daboarder]

and is dead again?

[Mr Mystery]

Apparently.

But Gilles is back - and I'd rather have a demi-god on my side than some noble oik :p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

He wasn't dead the first time, just missing. Now he definitely is.

It's a layered narrative with incomplete information at different points.

[eldargal]

Any word on Nuln and the Elector Countess?

[Morgrim]

Is it all Nurgle or does the rest of chaos get a look in? Nurgle is, frankly, boring, and I probably won't bother with the book if it's solely focused on the one element of chaos I don't care for.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's almost all Nurgle as Archaon's vanguard. There's some mention of what the forces of the other Gods are doing; but Archaon's main horde only starts to move at the very end of the book. There'll be more.

Nothing on Nuln. The book is much more focused than Nagash; it's all about Nurgle's gambit.

[Theik]

Is it all Nurgle or does the rest of chaos get a look in? Nurgle is, frankly, boring, and I probably won't bother with the book if it's solely focused on the one element of chaos I don't care for.

Lorewise the entire story is indeed pretty much all nurgle, but rule wise, it is still a pretty neat book for you, with the legions of chaos allowing you to combine 3 armies, enjoy no demonic instability, a better eye of the gods table, beastmen with marks and a better storm of chaos table.

[Houghten]

no demonic instability

WHAT THE WHAT

what is this

how does that even

what

[daboarder]

word is they crumble instead

[lobster-overlord]

We are getting all these gnarled, nasty, bloated or disgusting, chaosified giant models. I'm hoping we find that the Brets are coming into the fight with something large and extremely elegant. I want a giant model that is pretty, and not these horrors of chaos to build for my fantasy army.

[Erik Setzer]

word is they crumble instead

Sort of.

The base rules are that Daemons replace Daemonic Instability with Unbreakable and Unstable. However, if you're playing using the Chaos Ascendant rules (I think they only apply to certain scenarios, mercifully, and not all Legions of Chaos armies), you can choose a Chaos God (roll off if there's two Chaos players to see who gets to pick) and Daemons of the god who is "ascendant" drop the Unstable rule, so they're just Unbreakable.

[Theik]

We are getting all these gnarled, nasty, bloated or disgusting, chaosified giant models. I'm hoping we find that the Brets are coming into the fight with something large and extremely elegant. I want a giant model that is pretty, and not these horrors of chaos to build for my fantasy army.

How about a king on a hippogryph? He...dies, but still. He was totally oozing golden blood.

[el_tigre]

King sized Grail-Relique anyone?

[Mr Mystery]

Bound to be Gilles!

Also, Karl Franz Ascendant seems to answer the Nagash issue very nicely

[Death Shroud]

Fateweaver to Archon
"It is no mortal man that you should fear..."

Could be Karl Franz (who is now more than a mere mortal man). Could be Nagash (who was a man but is now neither that or mortal). It could be a Dwarf, Elf, Lizardman. Could even be some other chaotic force (you know the Horned Rat is gonna be tearing up all sorts of stuff). Lot's of possibilities. Either way Karl Franz has become a serious badass (not that he was a slouch in the first place).

I wonder how the arrival of the comet ties in with the Lizardmen as the twin-tailed comet is linked with Sotek very strongly too!

Amazing book. Can't wait for the next one.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm wondering if it will be Settra that does Archaon in....the Gods do like their games!

And when you think about it, total dominion diminishes them, after a fashion. Beastmen are less favoured than other mortals, because they're born into thrall. Valued yes, but not favoured. If Chaos dominates, all mortals either perish, or turn to Chaos, and thereafter all will be as the Beastmen in terms of value.

[Theik]

Fateweaver to Archon
"It is no mortal man that you should fear..."

Could be Karl Franz (who is now more than a mere mortal man). Could be Nagash (who was a man but is now neither that or mortal). It could be a Dwarf, Elf, Lizardman. Could even be some other chaotic force (you know the Horned Rat is gonna be tearing up all sorts of stuff). Lot's of possibilities. Either way Karl Franz has become a serious badass (not that he was a slouch in the first place).

I wonder how the arrival of the comet ties in with the Lizardmen as the twin-tailed comet is linked with Sotek very strongly too!

Amazing book. Can't wait for the next one.

Could be a woman. Games Workshop going to pull a Tolkien.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

(It's Karl Franz. He's not mortal anymore.)

I love this book. It's not as big as Nagash, but it's got some lovely stories and setpieces. Vlad is a delight. Such a charmer!

I bought a Mortarch!

[Mr Mystery]

Found the sack of Marienburg bit slightly meh, but into Altdorf now, and wow!!

Really liking the characterisation of Festus.

[flipchuck]

Ok....I heard someone say Imperial Dragon. What's the skinny on him now? And now that there is a new and improved Karl, how about a new kit? :D

[Theik]

Ok....I heard someone say Imperial Dragon. What's the skinny on him now? And now that there is a new and improved Karl, how about a new kit? :D

Towards the very end of the book, the new grand master of the mage guilds loses his mount and flees into the imperial zoo. He's followed there by the Harbringer, the big bad Beastman shaman from this book, who goes on to do the classic villain talk-too-much bit instead of downright killing the guy. Then he gets blasted to smithereens by Imperial Dragon who's apparently buddy-buds with the beast mage and the rest of the beastmen run off in terror.

[eldargal]

Are there any women in it who do more than die to add grimdark grittiness to the story?

[Mr Mystery]

Dunno.

But seems the Countess of Nuln is in Altdorf in the beginning bit.

[eldargal]

She's probably dead then.><

[Mr Mystery]

Dunno.

Haven't read that far.

I had forgotten quite how heavy going these can be! Normally I polish books off dead quick - but these just take longer!

[eldargal]

Apparently she fought at Altdorf and her fate remains unknown. I really, really hope they do something with her in the vein of giving her a ******* model and making her be badass and not die because between Nagash, Glottkin, Embiggened Karl Franz and potentially Tyrion being an avatar of Khaine impressive wimmins is looking mighty thin at the moment. I still think we will end up with some kind of restored Ariel and Alarielle nature godess avatar combo though.

[Mr Mystery]

Ariel and Alarielle super-combine, grab the Sword of Khaine, tell it 'don't give us any gyp, bumface' and then wail on everyone?

[eldargal]

Something like that ypu, still not keen on a permanent melding of the two, there are few enough powerful wimmins in WFB without combining two of them (less problematic if we got a new female High Elf heroine with a bloody model).

[Mr Mystery]

I'm interested to see how the Khaldia and Neferata thing plays out in the end....very interested.

Got a mate round for Walking Dead tonight, so will have to pick up on the reading further tomorrow.

[eldargal]

Khalida and Neferata end up resolving all that sexual tension and frick.

[Mr Mystery]

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Carry-on-Henry-VIII-Terry-Scott-Kenneth-Williams-shocked-faces-original-photo-/00/s/Mzk4WDUwMA==/z/qUEAAOxy8HlSdDTI/$(KGrHqEOKpgFJjUOhd0cBSdDTId2Ug~~60_35.JPG

[Erik Setzer]

...impressive wimmins is looking mighty thin at the moment. I still think we will end up with some kind of restored Ariel and Alarielle nature godess avatar combo though.

Hey, the Everqueen's daughter did something major! She became part of Nagash!

Okay, yeah, that's not really helping things.

It's kind of funny - but in a sad way - that as Blizzard prepares an expansion for World of Warcraft that someone called a "boy's party" or something like that (the actual name escapes me, but it was a play on how it was so focused on guys and not women), they still have a lot more strong female characters around than Warhammer does, and are adding more rather than removing them. Granted, they know that a lot of their player base is female. GW might attract more female customers if they actually had females in their games that weren't just scantily clad lunatic killers (or elves that are all so feminine looking that the only way you can tell which model is meant to be a woman is the two bumps on their chest).

- - - Updated - - -


Khalida and Neferata end up resolving all that sexual tension and frick.

Is it necrophilia if they're both dead?

Also, folks, don't forget: You can't spell "necromancer" without "romance!"

[eldargal]

Yeah the new WoW expansion is pretty horrific when it comes to women. It has some nice features though, but you would think they would know better by now. They do have a lot of strong women, but they write them really, really badly. At this point Tyrande basically exists to make King Wrynn look awesome by knowing how to do everything better than the 10,000 year old plus Night Elf queen. Jaina doesn't fair quite so bad. Blizzard have a really, really mixed record. One one hand you get really great characters like Kerrigan, but then they sexualise the living **** out of her.

The sad thing is GW could be laying the groundwork for better representation of women with End Times, or they may make it worse. It's just not clear what the hell is going on.

I don't know I'm not an expert on necrophilia. I suspect not as they aren't corpses but consenting undead...

[Erik Setzer]

The sad thing is GW could be laying the groundwork for better representation of women with End Times, or they may make it worse. It's just not clear what the hell is going on.

I honestly think it ties back to the lack of really studying the market and thinking about how they could grow their customer base. The suits and ties running the joint probably don't think women would have any interest in the hobby, so why bother catering to them? The thing is, they *would* be interested, if it wasn't such a blatant "boys club" with the way the games' background and model selection work. It's like females and non-white humans practically don't exist in the Warhammer universes (and they're about to destroy Nippon and Cathay, already wiped out Estalia and Tilea, and I think Araby's pretty much gone, so there goes every non-Caucasian group of humans, too).

I think more gender representation would be great. I'd love to include more interesting female characters/models in my armies. I don't trust myself to convert them because, well, I'm just not that great with green stuff.

[eldargal]

That's my worry. I've heard from a couple of people within GW and BL that they are aware they have women fans and want to do more to a) keep them and b) get more but how aware and conscious they are of that at the designer level is unknown.

[Wildeybeast]

Apparently she fought at Altdorf and her fate remains unknown. I really, really hope they do something with her in the vein of giving her a ******* model and making her be badass and not die because between Nagash, Glottkin, Embiggened Karl Franz and potentially Tyrion being an avatar of Khaine impressive wimmins is looking mighty thin at the moment. I still think we will end up with some kind of restored Ariel and Alarielle nature godess avatar combo though.

Countess is mentioned briefly as one of the squabbling elector counts Helborg has to deal with at court in KF's absence. Zero mention of her fighting in the battle of Altdorf and the suggestion that Vlad is the only elector count defending the city probably means they all found reasons to be elsewhere before the literal poo hit the fan in Altdorf.

[eldargal]

Apparently that was from the novel not the End Times book.

[Mr Mystery]

Really enjoying this book now!

Just hit Chapter 4

[Cap'nSmurfs]

God you're slow. I've done two passes already!*

*admittedly I was stuck in a car, a doctor's waiting room, then a car again for ~8 hours on Tuesday

Ask me anything!

[Erik Setzer]

I've done two passes already!* Ask me anything!

Sure. Let me ask you:

How do you find the will to do it?!?

Seriously, I'm still trying to get through Nagash. The story's good and all, but there's something about it that's making it hard for me to get through, even harder than it usually is when I'm not in "a reading mood" (long story, short version is I'm sort of ADD, I guess). And I feel like I should finish Nagash before I jump into Glottkin, but I'm only like 70-80 pages in.

I guess that's a valid question, then: Do I need to finish Nagash before starting Glottkin?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

You don't *need* to finish Nagash. If you're not interested in the Undead storyline, then you can skip to the chapter which deals with the initial Chaos attack on the Empire. That'll furnish you with what went on at the northern border - Valten announcing himself on the stage; Vlad von Carstein's intercession; Balthasar Gelt's turn to the Dark Side (Wind of Death flavour), as well as what happens to the Emperor.

You can probably find a summary somewhere. There's a lot going on in that first book. Glottkin is much more straightforward.

How I do it? I love this ****, man. :)

[Mr Mystery]

I'm really enjoying the greater presence of the non-Chaos Gods, like Shallya/Isha (who are probably the same), and Taal.

Really, really nice to see that happening.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yeah, I enjoy that very much!

[Wildeybeast]

Apparently that was from the novel not the End Times book.

Ah. I had wondered why that book existed when so much stuff was covered in the background book. I may pick it up.


Sure. Let me ask you:

How do you find the will to do it?!?

Seriously, I'm still trying to get through Nagash. The story's good and all, but there's something about it that's making it hard for me to get through, even harder than it usually is when I'm not in "a reading mood" (long story, short version is I'm sort of ADD, I guess). And I feel like I should finish Nagash before I jump into Glottkin, but I'm only like 70-80 pages in.

I guess that's a valid question, then: Do I need to finish Nagash before starting Glottkin?

I found Nagash I bit of a plod at times. Two reasons for me; it was largely about armies I don't have much interest in and that it was predictable. We knew Nagash was going to rise, but about a quarter of the book is leading up to that. Then it was just a procession of bad guys winning. I only really got interested at the end when there was some minor doubt that Settra and Khalida might stop them.

I found Glotkin much more interesting. For a start it is significantly shorter, so easier to get through and there was genuine doubt about whether Nurgle would win or the good guys would pull it out of the fire at the last. I think now the plot device of Nagash is sorted, anything is on the cards. Plus I'm a big Empire fan.

[Mr Mystery]

Really liking the interaction of the characters, spesh Helborg and Vlad

[Wildeybeast]

My favourite part was the Huntsmarshall popping up on the tower to take down that giant brass Minotaur. Just a little snippet but such an awesome moment. That and the Dragon.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I really like Gregor Martak. Also Vlad and Otto Glott's back-and-forth was delightful.

The best part is Festus and the Shroudling, though. They're so cute!

[CrimsonTurkey]

What if the "no mortal man" bit ends up referring to Vlad? Archaon and Nagash or Franz could go to town on one another leaving the opportunistic vampire to sneak a quick stab in there to finish things off. I'm loving Vlad more and more as the unlikely and unlooked-for antihero/savior, and that ring does open him up to simply being massively ballsy on the attack.

That said, in more than half of his appearances thus far, he's been mounted and in the lead of the Drakenhof Templars. I really, really want a model for that.