Shooting Ranges in US causing lead poisoning.

[YorkNecromancer]

This seems like it may be of interest to some members here, given that I know we have many, many shooting enthusiasts on BoLS:

http://io9.com/lead-poisoning-has-become-a-serious-health-threat-at-sh-1649785369

Given that lead poisoning makes you stupid (http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthingsworkfaqs/f/leadpoisoning.htm) and that there are a number of worrying links between lead poisoning and violent behaviour (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20961241) perhaps America should shift to making bullets out of pewter?

Or maybe Finecast?

[40kGamer]

Brass or silver could both work too...

[YorkNecromancer]

Ha! America full of nothing but silver bullets. Werewolves would s*** themselves.

[40kGamer]

Better than Wolfsbane... and we Yanks prefer stupid levels of overkill whenever possible. :)

[YorkNecromancer]

You are indeed a curious people. :)

http://i.imgur.com/wnrFgly.jpg

[40kGamer]

Curious is a very flattering way of putting it. ;)

[Kirsten]

going by most gun enthusiasts I would say it is a bit late to worry :p

[DarkLink]

Cause I'm sure you know so many American gun enthusiasts so well.

Some of the comments are pretty funny though.


It's pretty surprising that it isn't more prevalent considering every time one fires a gun there is gunpowder residue. Multiply that a lot, and clearly you have a problem with with the dust from high powered guns shooting bullet after bullet per fraction of a second.

Gun powder residue doesn't contain the lead, the bullets do. Nor are you going to see many fully automatic firearms at the range, and even if you did most ranges restrict you from rapid firing.

I'd be pretty insulted by some of the stuff people say if it wasn't so blatently obvious they don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about. Not that there aren't some silly things we do. Indoor ranges probably do have a lead poisoning problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Ranges are required to get special building permits. Military ranges often have lead related issues. There's significant political resistance because there have been more than a few attempts to ban lead ammo in various parts of America. Since lead is really the only viable "cheap" ammo option, ban attempts have not been taken to kindly. Steel ammo and other options are generally much more expensive if you want to buy in any real quantity.

[Denzark]

In 13 years of service I have never heard of any British studies or concerns into lead poisoning at military ranges - even from teeth arm units who put far more down the range than I ever have or will. Believe me in this increasingly litigious society people would have tried to sue by now if it had happened and the MOD would fight shy - but as they don't and even let cadet units on with no quibbling, I think the problem is not that great.

[CoffeeGrunt]

As amusing as it is to imagine a load of Americans with miniguns unloading Orkish torrents of dakka and huffing pure, vaporous lead, it's sadly probably not true. Would fit the stereotype damn well, though. Definitely reminds me of the TF2 soldier.

I wouldn't be surprised if gunpowder residue contained lead though, lead is a soft metal and a small explosion propelling it would be likely to cause some of it to be removed and expelled with the rest of the exhaust gases. Probably not enough to really harm someone unless they're doing it daily or something.

[Psychosplodge]

You mean the Heavy CG?

Aren't most bullets copper jacketed? I remember them being copper coloured not lead coloured when I was in cadets as a teen.
Do recreational shooters not use the same?

[CoffeeGrunt]

You mean the Heavy CG?

The Soldier suits the stereotypical American thing better. Besides, in the most recent comics it's noted that he actually has lead poisoning.

[Psychosplodge]

Ah sorry I was thinking the minigun angle, yeah as a character the Soldier suits the stereotype.

[Wolfshade]

This is why one should use depleted heavy metals.

[Mr Mystery]

Do we still use Lead bullets at all? I'm confused.

Apparently, Silver is too soft for dakka - but lead isn't>

[DWest]

All projectiles that go down a rifled barrel have a coating of soft metal (pretty much always lead or copper) in order to engage the rifling grooves. Even huge artillery shells have a driving band of copper around the middle. The coating or driving band needs to be a soft metal, because you want it to conform to the rifling, rather than the other way around (i.e. scrape the rifling off on the way out). Most modern rounds have a copper jacketing of some sort to improve the effects on impact, but not all of these coat the entire bullet, and even those that do still have a lead core.

However, the problem this article is discussing is not going to come from lead vaporized in the barrel as such, but instead from the bullet striking the backstop at the other end of the range. A rifle range is almost always going to be outside, because of the ranges involved, and the backstop is usually a tall earthen berm, where the bullets just bury themselves into the dirt. An indoor pistol range, on the other hand, is going to have a hardened wall as a backstop, which will cause the bullet to smash up on impact, converting some % of its mass into fine dust, and that's where the problem comes from.

[Mr Mystery]

Ah, I see. So it's not the actual bullet itself, but the coating.

Cheers!

[DarkLink]

Do we still use Lead bullets at all? I'm confused.

Apparently, Silver is too soft for dakka - but lead isn't>

Lead is the main component of most bullets, with a copper jacket. It's where the term full metal jacket comes from.

Some bullets use steel or tugsten, mostly for military use since they penetrate armor more easily, though steel shotgun rounds are common due to environmental concerns. It wears out rifle barrels rapidly, though.

There are a few other exotic material options, but those are almost exclusively for things like nonlethal rubber bullets.

[DarkLink]

In 13 years of service I have never heard of any British studies or concerns into lead poisoning at military ranges - even from teeth arm units who put far more down the range than I ever have or will. Believe me in this increasingly litigious society people would have tried to sue by now if it had happened and the MOD would fight shy - but as they don't and even let cadet units on with no quibbling, I think the problem is not that great.

America can be a very litigious society sometimes, and politics comes into play as often as not. If the Brady campaign could ban gun ranges over what may or may not be a legitimate environmental concern, they would do it in a heartbeat.

[Denzark]

Exactly.

[YorkNecromancer]

nonlethal rubber bullets.

As probably this forum's premier gun enthusiast (and one who gets annoyed when the gun hobby is misrepresented on this forum), I am surprised to see you use this term.

I thought rubber bullets were now described as 'less lethal'? Because I remember a number of cases over here in the UK during The Troubles, when rubber bullets were discovered to be very lethal indeed. They're nonlethal in the same way a kitchen knife is; no, they're not designed to kill, but they're still quite capable of it. I mean, yes, it was mostly when headshots occurred, true, but that's why 'less lethal' replaced 'nonlethal', because they're safer than regular bullets but still, well, lethal. It was part of the reason we stopped using them; they became a serious embarrassment for Westminster; the IRA used the shootings for serious political leverage.

[Anthrax ion pusscabe]

I watched a documentary on the production of less lethal crowd control ammunition and it said your average rubber bullet is more then capable of sesiously wounding or killing someone if fired directly at them (they tested it against ballistics jel blocks and it got a good 3inches or something penetration) and that the correct procedure was to "bounce" it off the ground to reduce its total velocity so it will hurt like a kick from a horse but not penetrat the skin

[Gotthammer]

Rubber bullets:

https://31.media.tumblr.com/2a420760e5c58962e8d70d19627acb9f/tumblr_najp9x6Kwm1ql1v50o1_1280.jpg

https://38.media.tumblr.com/102e16823346706e514192b38be84fb4/tumblr_najp9x6Kwm1ql1v50o2_1280.jpg

https://33.media.tumblr.com/6b89ebf6538d13fdde1d2864adac5489/tumblr_najp9x6Kwm1ql1v50o3_1280.jpg

[Morgrim]

Do we still use Lead bullets at all? I'm confused.

Apparently, Silver is too soft for dakka - but lead isn't>
Silver is harder than lead but softer than copper. The trick is that silver, for some reason that I've never seen explained, tends to be really bad at accepting the rifling in the barrel. So silver bullets do not like travelling in a straight line and also have lower penetration.

Amusingly gold bullets work better than lead does. It's just that they're gold and wildly expensive.

[Wolfshade]

The denser the metal the better,

[Gotthammer]

Silver is quite brittle, especially at temperature, so I would imagine would be prone to flaking and shattering if forced through rifling at very high speeds.

[Mr Mystery]

Silver is quite brittle, especially at temperature, so I would imagine would be prone to flaking and shattering if forced through rifling at very high speeds.

Make even more sense!

Stupid chemistry and physics and that. Now how am I meant to knack those Werewolves?

[DarkLink]

Right, bullets require a unique mix of ductility, strength, and high density. Lead just happens to be an ideal material that falls right in the sweet spot and isn't super expensive like gold.


As probably this forum's premier gun enthusiast (and one who gets annoyed when the gun hobby is misrepresented on this forum), I am surprised to see you use this term.

Actually a good point. I just kind of randomly threw it out there. I think I posted from my tablet, which I don't check my wording as much on since the keyboard is more awkward than a physical one. Less than lethal is definitely a more accurate term.