What's missing?

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

40k - a colossal sandbox setting for our gaming pleasure. Built up over nearly three decades (though in four different ones. Stupid time!) it's rich, and gloriously detailed, without being completely set in stone. The scale is clear - billions of worlds in the Imperium alone, and near infinite threat - from the extremely ancient Necrons, the upstart Tau, even entire planets in the shape of Deathworlds are all waiting to give you a proper kicking and run off with your wallet.

But the detail is incomplete, and deliberately so. We know who the big players are, and we have named dozens of other, minor races, tantalising glimpses of less widespread, but no less serious threats to whichever race we ally with. They may not be poised to threaten our favourites continued existence, but they may yet prove distraction enough for another big boy to come along and mess with our sweet ride.

And it's those lesser covered things I want to discuss.

What aspect of the galaxy do you feel isn't represented enough. What would you like to see delved into in more depth? Perhaps it's the lesser races themselves - some kind of sourcebook or limited range force for the battlefield. Maybe you want more definition on the different kinds of planets? For the most part, the scenery is focussed on the Imperium. They may not be the biggest (definitely Orks!) or the most unified (Necrons and Craftworld Eldar are my faves there), but they are the most constant in terms of look and approach, and that leads most gaming boards to look broadly similar - industrialised Imperial Worlds in various states of repair. But we know that out there are Feudal Worlds, Agri-Worlds, Prison-Worlds, Maiden-Worlds, Death-Worlds, Daemon-Worlds - in short, just about anything we can conceive is arguably out there (except that planet I want, which I can't discuss on a family board. Or over PM. Trust me, some things are best kept to oneself).

What's missing for you?

[Cactus]

I think, overall, there is a distinct lack of fluff and races of Xenos armies. IMHO, there should be far more Xenos armies/models (and novels) than Imperium, but that's just my opinion.

[Wolfshade]

I think I agree with cactus, xenos are lacking

[Mr Mystery]

Exploration of existing, or investigation into different species?

I was tantalised by the Xeno Biology book - which I sadly lent to a mate and never saw again!

[Wolfshade]

There are lots of references to all kinds of exotic aliens, but they seem to be the disperate paragraph here or there, but no indepth of the little guy.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Obviously, some decent f**king looking aliens. I'm sure most people know by now that it is my biggest passion within SF and the reason I invented my own damn SF game to "fix" this issue but for those that arent aware ; I detest anything remotely earthlike or humanoid - and it's the make or break for me in so many SF settings. I grew up on H.P. Lovecraft, Daleks and Vorlons and later on discovered Baxter and Stapledon, setting my standard even higher.

The moment I see something with 2 arms and 2 legs I want to burn it for being Unalien looking and the same when it's a god damn Military SF "space bug" or H.R. Giger Xenomorph ripoff that adds nothing to the style, so it's not really so much a criticism of 40k but of Visual SF in general. 40k has no decent Xenos to me, infact I don't even see most of the Xenos as "Xenos" but human standins.

These days I'm so passionate about this I actually feel the need to design and sculpt an "original" Alien race every time I see a wargame put out another one of the same boring tired tropes, just to try and balance things a bit.

[jonsgot]

Matt Ward or anyone with a taste for some controversy. A new race would be good to. squat the kroot and bring in some new exenos.

[vharing]

I just want to see the timeline of the fluff progress beyond the 13th crusade.

[daboarder]

I just want to see the timeline of the fluff progress beyond the 13th crusade.

I NEVER EVER WANT TO SEE THAT IN 40K.

Not after what GW is potentially doing with endtimes (I say potentially because given that they refuse to discuss ANYTHING with the community means that I wont invest in endtimes until I know I wont be screwed over by them arbitrarily destroying parts of my army because they are "old" or whatever bull**** reason they come up with

[Psychosplodge]

What's missing for you?

Some sort of space dwarf would be nice...

[Path Walker]

I NEVER EVER WANT TO SEE THAT IN 40K.

Not after what GW is potentially doing with endtimes (I say potentially because given that they refuse to discuss ANYTHING with the community means that I wont invest in endtimes until I know I wont be screwed over by them arbitrarily destroying parts of my army because they are "old" or whatever bull**** reason they come up with

Are you just a parody of yourself at this point? You're literally getting mad at something that hasn't and probably won't happen

[daboarder]

Are you just a parody of yourself at this point? You're literally getting mad at something that hasn't and probably won't happen

wow, I am in awe of your ability to read tone from text, caveat and all....did you actually read the caveat?

I'm not mad at GW, I am merely hesitant of the complete unknown that is the future of fantasy and GWs refusal to interact with their customers merely exacerbates that hesitancy and makes that unknown financially dangerous for the customers.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I can see where daboarder is coming from - The hobby is at least for some of us a lot of money, and when you don't know what's coming it can create hesitation as there is simply a big giant question mark floating over what you want to know before you spend money on something. I think he is merely being cautious.

[Arkhan Land]

Webway creatures

[CoffeeGrunt]

The Tau client races alone would be interesting, an expansion on Kroot as some sort of supplement or mini-Codex at least. Most of them merely work with the Tau rather than fully devote themselves to them, so there's a lot of scope for them working autonomously.

R.e. the humanoid subtype of alien being so prevalent, there is scientific backing that this could be an archetype that would be common amongst technologically advanced species. Heck, even among that subtype there are aliens that it seems impossible to become a technological civilisation. For example, how the heck do the Elcor even build anything?

Still, proof will be in the pudding if we ever get out into the stars.

[AirHorse]

I'd like to see more lower level detail in 40k, all around! Stuff like necromunda, gorkamorka etc I love because its so low level inside the universe!

40k is amazing because of its scale! But I'd love to find out more, and play more at a lower level! Not that I don't love the high level perspective talking about sector spanning crusades lasting years and talking about events on a yearly basis etc, but I love it when battles and campaigns are fleshed out down to the lowest levels, down to what happened each day etc!

As an example I've been toying with the idea of creating my own necromunda style rule set, based amongst the dark eldar down at the grotty upstarts level! Not even a hint at anything that is relevant on the grand scale of 40k, but is so utterly relevant to those upstarts trying to make a reputation for themselves!

[Caitsidhe]

Heh. I sold the lot. It was kind of like Bilbo letting go of the one ring. Once I did it and the stuff passed from my possession I felt better immediately. :D So what is missing for me? Players and regular games. The poorly balanced game, the glittering generality setting, and the outrageous prices didn't drive me from the game. I did, after all, already have enough models to play without buying anything. What caused me to sell it off was the fact that pick up games in my area fell through the floor. My shelf space is just too valuable to waste on things which don't get regular use.

I realize that Mr. Mystery was looking for a "in setting" answer, but I think it bears mentioning that actually having a community that is growing rather than vanishing is what is required.

[This Dave]

H
I'd like to see more lower level detail in 40k, all around! Stuff like necromunda, gorkamorka etc I love because its so low level inside the universe!

40k is amazing because of its scale! But I'd love to find out more, and play more at a lower level! Not that I don't love the high level perspective talking about sector spanning crusades lasting years and talking about events on a yearly basis etc, but I love it when battles and campaigns are fleshed out down to the lowest levels, down to what happened each day etc!

As an example I've been toying with the idea of creating my own necromunda style rule set, based amongst the dark eldar down at the grotty upstarts level! Not even a hint at anything that is relevant on the grand scale of 40k, but is so utterly relevant to those upstarts trying to make a reputation for themselves!

While not Games Workshop stuff Fantasy Flight Games series of RPGs set in the 40K universe does a pretty good job fleshing out the "day to day" stuff of the Imperium. Little things like what money is used for example makes a fluff monkey like me happy. :)

[Mr Mystery]

I can second that. FFG have done a bang up job with the roleplay game.

If only my Rogue Trader hadn't leapt off that archeotech Titan to escape the Genestealers, and then had the Ultramarine land on him (true story!)

[AirHorse]

Yeah, I love the ffg stuff!! Own most of their "big" books, despite never having actually played any of their rpgs XD(would love to!).

Also love the amount of novels we get from black library these days, a lot more details about normal stuff gets thrown in to those which I love!!

[40kGamer]

Yeah, I love the ffg stuff!! Own most of their "big" books, despite never having actually played any of their rpgs.

Same here... I really enjoy the extra backstory that things like this flush out. :)

[CoffeeGrunt]

Dark Heresy is my first roleplay, and I've been thoroughly enjoying it a my semi-pacifistic Priest who refuses to kill humans, (but burned so many Orks and has 70 Medicae after his third session!)

As far as the game shrinking, over here for us it's been steadily growing. However, I think that the majority of users online are US, which seems to be a lot more oriented around the tournament scene and how that's growing or shrinking.

[Haighus]

CoffeeGrunt do you have a source for the research you mentioned? :) Sounds like an interesting read.

[Edweird]

Well let's start with filling the holes in themes that are not represented in the game as a full focused force...
Chaos book did well to represent most of chaos, but left out Iron Warriors although a formerly valid argument was they were represented with IG allies which has changed in 7th. The same is true with Night Lords, no thematic representation as well as no character slots that fill their needs. And I don't think I need to get into the idea of a unified chaos cult book for the 4 factions that went full retard.

Iron hands, not considering the single forge world model, lack a character as well... MotF should at least be a captain teir(3wound) model for them as well. A Chapter master servo harness option would be enough to feel like a clan forge father, which the Clan Rakkan supplement seemed to avoid doing like the plague.

On the topic of mechanicus... A list for the priesthood of mars would be neat, the fluff is rich enough for both a loyalist and dark mech "sales opportunity" aka split book if they play it right.

IG has a ton of intentionally left holes in it... From Marbo and themeatic chatachan unit builds, to bringing the Elysian and DKoK out from under the Forge world legitimacy greyarea.

Also strangely the other newer books are ripe with discussed characters, with no entry or representation at all... Inquisition screams for getting Eisenhorn, Orks could stand to see where Wazdakka's crusade went, Dark eldar lack closure on Vect.

Personally I think this December is going to be an interesting one, with the return of the advent calendar that went so well last year.

[cadho3]

Squats!

[Psychosplodge]

Only fifteen posts too slow :D