RPGs

[Jwolf]

Should blow tanks up, not be games.

[FirstLegion]

Heh, indeed.

[Oswald Shot First]

Dark Heresy is a lot of fun if you enjoy the possibility that your character will die while crossing the street.

[Bigred]

The adventure books look fantastic, and yes I have heard the weapon damage table can lead to some rather entertaining results.

[Spanky Harrison]

Bleh... I don't like Dark heresy much at all.

Now, that being said, the campaign that I played in was a blast. However, that was in spite of the system, not because of it.

40k Roleplaying has a lot of potential, I just wish we had a system for it that didn't suck.

[ChaosLord127]

I like it primarily for the ability to convert a single miniature, changing them as they commit different acts. Now acting as you were the character may be a little bit out there...

[Spanky Harrison]

Now acting as you were the character may be a little bit out there...

That would be the "Role-playing" part in the "Role-playing Game". =p

Not really as 'out there' as you think.

[Aristus]

Now now, even though the system is pretty easy compared to other RPGs (boom!) i must say that their expansions does the whole thing worthwhile, playing as a battle sister is teh ****?

[GrimDarkOtter]

Absolutely. Dark Heresy is far from the best RPG (boom!) out there. The system has a number of issues and isn't always the best way to get across what you're trying to do. But at the same time, I have found it to be a very effective introduction to the 40K universe for complete novices, and veterans of the system can come up with increasingly crazy modifications to bring in ever more fun. I.E. playing as orks, cultists, tyranids, tau, etc.

[Bronn]

I've played Warhammer Fantasy RPG for years, but haven't tried Dark Heresy yet. I did give the Rogue Trader demo scenario a spin, and it wasn't too bad. A buddy bought all the DH books, but he found Magic, and he has little spare time now, sadly. Maybe one day I'll get a chance to play it.

[Morgrim]

What's the recomended minimum number to play Dark Heresy? Two of my friends are interested and I've offered to DM, but I'm not sure if that will make our group too small to effectively function.

[NegativeK]

Like most RPGs, it can handle as few or as many PCs as you're willing to work for. You'll have to keep your bad guys in small groups to keep from wiping out the PCs constantly, but difficulty scaling is something every DM has to do. ;)

[Voxnovanion]

So do you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a better system to use in stead of the standard Dark Heresy system? I have the DH books and am thinking of starting a campaign, but the rules do seem slightly clunky to me, it looks like starting players have only a small percentage chance of succeeding at anything...

[Plasticfish]

Well, failure also has its charm from time to time.
But when it comes to rank/lvl.-based rpgs I find that most of the time it's more fun to start the players of on, say the third rank/lvl. I'm yet to try that in a Dark Heresy Campaign.

[Joey Boor]

When you play a campaign of dark heresy you need at least two other people. You can npc everything else you will need. If you find that entry level is too hard you can always hand out xp as candy for a while or create a session where all the characters do is wade through room after room of crappy cultists or something similar.

[Bung]

I like the System because Charakters can easily die if the player have crappy ideas.

Im playing P&P RPGs a bit longer than 40k and the most time i think at a higher level the Carakters are invenurable or the players have the idea.

Wiht a bit of luck you have one shot kill but not only for the Carakters.

Sometimes its like Call of Cuthulu: He who runs a away, can invetigate another day ;)

Not like some Fantasy RPGs like the German Main System Das Schwarze Auge (The Black Eye) where Players simple can ignore minor monster meetings or as GM you have to bring more deadly Monsters all sesion.

Kids with Laspistols can be deadly and the players know it, do they are more carefull, therefor i love this system.

[Plasticfish]

I'm with you Bung! I like the system and if the players rush into things too hastly it might end very bad for them!
And just as in Call of Cuthulu the players should be careful when it comes to reading strange, old moldy books, it's neither good for the purity of the soul or their mental sanity...
But on the other hand it's always fun to put strange books in their paths, sit back and watch the players scream: "no..!" when you explain the contents of the book and the effect on their characters pure souls... :D

[Chumbalaya]

I'm new to the RPG thing and Dark Heresy is the first I've played.

I have enjoyed it immensely. It captures the feel of the 40k universe well and it's just fun to sit around with your buds telling a story about space zombies.

I think my favorite moment had my party and I fighting off a Dark Eldar Haemonculus, his Grotesques, and some Warriors. Things were looking bad when the Psyker decided to cast Staunch Bleeding on an ally. He rolls Perils and instead of stopping the blood, he makes it rain from the sky! Then he decides to toss a grenade and drops it at his feet. 2 hours later, my Guardsman and our Tech Priest wake up with 0 wounds (burned Fate to not die), take in the carnage (nobody else was as lucky), collect our objective and high tail it out of there.

[NegativeK]

I've actually used the Hero system to run a 40K game, and it worked out fairly well. The biggest downside was that only one other player knew the 40K universe that well - which is something that DH would've handled better.

But it was fun to come up with stats in the Hero system for things like power weapons, invulnerable saves, and bolt pistols.

[Madjob]

So do you guys have any suggestions as to what would be a better system to use in stead of the standard Dark Heresy system? I have the DH books and am thinking of starting a campaign, but the rules do seem slightly clunky to me, it looks like starting players have only a small percentage chance of succeeding at anything...

If you're coming into DH or WFRP having played primarily d20 systems for most of your life, it's not surprising you would think that. Most people run d20 games as a 'make a check if you want to do something or you can't, period' affair. While both of these systems can be punishing, they depend on having a GM that makes intelligent decisions on when it's appropriate to have a player take a skill check at all (certainly not for routine actions such as casually driving a vehicle in normal traffic - unless the driver lacks the skill in question, of course), and one that also knows how to soften a blow when its appropriate for the narrative.

As a player it's also important to remember that both systems focus on the nitty gritty of both settings. In DH, the familiar line "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions" is the credo, even working for the Inquisition you are starting off at the lowest of rungs. In WFRP it's essential to realize that your character is likely a bumpkin that had their unpleasant life made even more unpleasant and decided to wander the world instead of sit around and wait to be killed. In either case, you're not a hero - yet.

On that note if you want an RPG that has you go in expecting to pull off all sorts of daring stunts and getting away with it, Rogue Trader uses the same skill/talent/career system as DH but is scaled up in both character power and authority. If that's STILL not enough for you, Fantasy Flight Games is, as far as we know, still following the original plan for the three different 40k RPGs all revolving around an interchangeable system throughout different Imperial institutions. Dark Heresy was the first, Rogue Trader was planned for the second (and will be), and finally following that should be Deathwatch, which of course will have the players as veteran Space Marines in one of the titular squads dedicated to eradicating dangerous and hostile xenos at the behest of the Ordos Xenos. If FFG's schedule so far continues as it has been, we might expect to see it at the end of next year.

[Voxnovanion]

While I am a player in a D&D 3.5 campaign at the moment, that is actually far from the only RPG experience I have. I've succesfully GM'd both a Star Wars (old West End Games system, not D20) and a Serenity campaign, and played in a long running Pendragon campaign as well as dabbling in several other systems.
I agree with you that the GM really needs to know when to ask for what kind of skill check in Dark Heresy, since the difference between easy tasks (with +20 etc. to the die roll, or not requiring a roll at all) and difficult tasks (with -20 and such) is huge.
From previous sci-fi games, I guess I'm just used to really cinematic effects, where the heroes can improvise really wild actions (flying space ships into buildings while jumping out at the last moment etc.). In Dark Heresy, the fairly narrow skill descriptions force a much more 'realistic' kind of roleplaying, it seems. The characters are, as you say, not heroes (yet).
It's a change of pace for me but I'm going to give it a try, I just hope my players can adjust as well. I'll give them some warnings at the start though.

As a side note: I pre-ordered Rogue Trader as well (although I think I prefer the Inquisition fluf). I'll probably be buying Deathwatch if the system is compatible, although I would never dream of playing a space marine myself (neither in a roleplaying game nor on the tabletop...)

[Spanky Harrison]

Really, after a long time of consideration and thought, I have in fact figured out the ultimate reason I dont like DH. (and d% based systems in general actually)

The reason is that being lucky is always better than being good.

For example: My character is an aweseome assassin that has super skill training in awareness, has great perception, and heightened senses in everything that matters. Im good at noticing things.

My friend's character is a guardsman with average human perception, and is trained in awareness. Aka, he is not oblivious, and can see things that arent completely obvious.

Time comes to roll an awareness check. I roll a 70, he rolls a 20. Result? I fail utterly, and he succeeds spectacularly.

Now, the initial response to this is of course "Well duh, he rolled better than you". But thats just it, I can never be so skilled that it doesnt matter if he rolls better than me. If he rolls better, he performs better, almost regardless of his level of skill and proficiency. (this isnt entirely true to be fair, since they do have degrees of success, but in most cases those are of dubious value, and if I roll 'failure' he still infinitely out-performs me)

Consider a similar situation in DnD. I am awesome and have a high wisdom, training, and skill focus, so my bonus is +15. He has an average wisdom, and is trained. He has a +8. (and being trained in a skill in 4th is a much bigger investment than it is in DH)

We roll perception, and he rolls a 17, and I roll a 9. His total result is a 25, and mine is a 24. We achieve almost the same result, he because he was lucky, and I because I invested resources into being good at something. And if he wasnt trained, I would have gotten a better result than he did.

Ultimately, when I play DH, I just never feel like the skills and talents that my character has really matter at all. Especially when someone else has a guy with a heavy stubber and the ability to roll below 20 every now and then.

Also, melee sucks >=P

[Spartan]

I love DH because it`s 40k! Simple as that!

After reading the Eisenhorn trilogy I just couldn`t believe it when they announced that the roleplaying game was going to be released!

Being a GM also makes me shape the world to fit my twisted imagination. And, believe me, it`s not always "pretty"... I can`t elaborate as children may be reading this :rolleyes:

[ChaosLord127]

Being a GM also makes me shape the world to fit my twisted imagination. And, believe me, it`s not always "pretty"... I can`t elaborate as children may be reading this :rolleyes:


Argh, a daemonworld!? EXTERMINATUS!

[robertsjf]

I'm sorry but DH=Paranoia+CoC which means that DH=win QED

[Spartan]

Have just finished a mission based on the Anphelion Project IA book. it was absolutely awesome! The book contains alot of cool pictures and telepathic messages that one can use to enhance the feel of the story.

Being in an inquisitor`s retinue and getting in battle reports containing cool images of Space Marines and scary ones of Tyranids really helped the players get the feeling of being in a world of pain!

I used the Genestealer stats from Creatures Anathema and made other "versions" like Termagaunts, Hormagaunts, Harridans, fexes aso based on those. Being in the situation they were, the players got access to every piece of equipment listed in Anphelion Project book. Not surprisingly, two players decided to man the twin-linked lascannons in the main base complex shooting harridans and fexes, while four others drove around in 2 Hellhounds dodging, shooting and running over genestealers and gaunts!

All in all a very nice and deadly mission full of action, consentrated on survival. Everyone had a ball!

To my big surprise they actually got off-moon with the leaving Red Scorpions... by threatening to blow up the Thunderhawk with their manned lascannons. Needless to say, Commander Cull wasn`t very pleased.

I wonder what the Red Scorpions will do with them...?

Any evil suggestions is welcome gentlemen. :D

[Gotthammer]

Wait til they hit orbit. The Red Scorpions put on their armour and open the airlock. Save vs explosive decompression.

Or wait til the guys go to sleep and just have the marines kill them then. Or when they need to eat or something the marines tell them they have no food with them. Save vs passing out from hunger.

[brominated]

I'm running my 2nd DH Campaign and I have to say my players love it. Personally I think that working for the Inquisition means you should be doing great things as opposed to the whole unwashed masses things. Now the first part of the campaign for us was running around a Space Station generally wreaking havoc. That got me a chance to gauge the players and allows me to fluff up for the real meat of the campaign which is going to result in a major decision for the players that would affect the entire galaxy. I like the system and they personally love the crunch factor that a stray shell can obliterate a character.

[mono]

I love DH because it`s 40k! Simple as that!

After reading the Eisenhorn trilogy I just couldn`t believe it when they announced that the roleplaying game was going to be released!


The problem with this is that DH doesn't represent the Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies well at all...how many times in the Ravenor trilogy did Nayl and Swole get into a fight where the deciding factor was their agility? Almost always, but that's very little like how combat works in DH. In DH, the better character will be the Guardsman with the heavy stubber and carapace armor, despite the fact that--in Abnett's inquisitorial fiction at least--most acolytes will wear armor no more blatant than an armored bodysuit (definitely NOT carapace) and carry little hideout stubbers for concealability.

This all being said, I was in the campaign with Spanky (though my "Westworld" bandit had some teething problems, eventually she became moderately reliable as far as rolling was concerned), and it was a blast. Honestly, for all the faults, I'd like to run a DH campaign sometime; unfortunately, I'm too flighty and too moody for any of my regular group to trust me as a GM any longer. :(

[robertsjf]

The problem with this is that DH doesn't represent the Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies well at all...how many times in the Ravenor trilogy did Nayl and Swole get into a fight where the deciding factor was their agility? Almost always, but that's very little like how combat works in DH. In DH, the better character will be the Guardsman with the heavy stubber and carapace armor, despite the fact that--in Abnett's inquisitorial fiction at least--most acolytes will wear armor no more blatant than an armored bodysuit (definitely NOT carapace) and carry little hideout stubbers for concealability.


Sounds like the GM has an issue with controlling resources, not an issue with DH....

[Voxnovanion]

Sounds like the GM has an issue with controlling resources, not an issue with DH....

Not quite, the rules of DH really encourage the use of (heavy) armour if you want a good chance to survive. It's either that or pump up your dodge skill as high as it will go, but since you can dodge only once per round and armour subtracts its rating from _every_ hit you take (except stuff with really high penetration values), armour still wins out.

I've just started a new DH campaign myself and plan to (a) limit the resources the characters have at their disposal (mesh armour will be available, carapace armour or power armour not so much) and (b) focus on investigation/research/infiltration missions. This will hopefully mean the players tend towards less obvious arms and armour (try charming the locals into giving you some info while your dressed in power armor and wielding a chain axe... well I guess they might try Intimidate instead :) )

[mono]

Not quite, the rules of DH really encourage the use of (heavy) armour if you want a good chance to survive. It's either that or pump up your dodge skill as high as it will go, but since you can dodge only once per round and armour subtracts its rating from _every_ hit you take (except stuff with really high penetration values), armour still wins out.

This sums up the basic problem: there's no effective repeat-dodge mechanic without house rules. Personally, if I ever do run DH, a repeat dodge mechanic that doesn't degrade will be a house rule, as will encouraging a bit more subtlety than I've seen most players and groups use.

[Bung]

I think the lethalitz is one of the core points in dh.

It encourages the players to think befor they are doing some stupid action like entering an underground bar shooting through the door.

For the most characters armour is still not that available with their income if u are not playing a noble ore some other sort of char with high income oryo u let armour drop from bees like in Blizzards Diablo 2 videogame.

After all the gm has to know what campaign he want to run, if he seend the players in a warzone he should give them some armour but investigating in the spire of a hive those armour wouldnt that usefull cause which noble wants to talk to some lesser beeing wearing some dirty armour of a warzone?

Its less about controlling the ressurces than controlling the environment of your adventures.

There may be the guardsman with carapace armour and heavy stubber but the challange for this caracter will be an undercover investigation in noble surroundungs. ;)

[Blaznak]

The Dark Heresy stuff seems to be a hoot. I"m waiting for Rogue Trader!

[Dragonmann]

Dark Heresy is the story of ordinary people struggling to live in the Dark Millennium, and to make their story even more tragic they dis something to get the attention of an Inquisitor who is now going to use them until they die.

It is a chance to look at the 40k world and see there is more than war, there is intrigue, corruption, pain, suffering, mystery, and so much more.

[Dragonmann]

Another round of people making the heavy armor argument.

Yes, armor helps you on every hit to a covered location while dodge only protects you from one attack per round.

But showing up in armor to a noble's ball, or a imperial sermon is out.

Also, the guy dressed like a turtle is going to attract the attention of the baddies equipped to deal with that. Two handed swords, man stopper rounds, and anything else with a penetration rating has no bonus against an unarmored target. A few dozen Thrones worth of gear can put a real hurting on somebody even with their armor.

It is far better to utilize tactics, and cover, so you only have to dodge once a round or so.

[Okidus]

I slightly modified the systems to make it a little more streamlined and fun.

The Blue Table group changed to TT style D6 instead, which can also work, and if you players are already familiar w the WS/BS of TT, it will speed up the clunkyness

[jezzicaz789]

Hi !
I've just visited this forum. Happy to get acquainted with you. Thanks.
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