Endless End Times?

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Just been pondering this....

What if there isn't an immediate conclusion to End Times?

What if this is the Warhammer World we now play in? Do the events we're seeing unfold actually require a defined ending?

[StarWarsDoug]

Interesting observation.

What if this is the new norm for WFB? Year plus long story driven campaigns broken by occasional major rule updates? With army books becoming obsolete as models gain rules in box.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm still not at all sold that we're seeing the demise of entire armies.

Undead Horde is an amalgamation of the two Undead books - but no reason we'd see just a single Undead book. Bretonnia for instance might be in fairly dire straits, but it is still very much there.

Daemons, Warriors and Beasts of Chaos? All play differently from each other, but an Undead Horde style of unity would be nice (and is already available in Tamurkhan to some extent).

Elves? Yeah, all three just got decent updates. But, End Times promises 'the mirror between light and dark shattered'. Sounds more like a political change than a 'yeah all the Stick Pixies are D.E.D - and no more Dark Elves neither because reasons'.

End Times as an ongoing setting gives Warhammer something it has needed for a while - a permanent threat for us to play against.

Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of being able to mix and match my force more. That's very cool. But no need to remove them as separate entities in the background and books.

[vonDietdrich]

Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of being able to mix and match my force more. That's very cool. But no need to remove them as separate entities in the background and books.

To be fair, the price tag would be a lot easier to swallow if they'd tacked on an extra $10-$15, added an extra hundred pages to the rules book, and included everything you needed to play both/all armies involved in each alliance in the cost. If each End Times Book were a super-army book, they'd be able to keep selling them and turning a nice profit in hardback until the army books involved got updated (so, a couple of years).

They won't do this, however, due to their iterative update system. Because they only update army rules one at a time, there's no way that they'll ever merge Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts into one all you can eat grimoire. They'll keep them separate so they can release each army individually and continue their current design paradigm.

Don't get me wrong, I bought End Times: Nagash and enjoyed it, but for most of the content.. it's a novel. Albeit an involved novel that's been a very long time in the making, and with cool art work and nice binding. But a novel nonetheless.

[Mr Mystery]

There's also the flipside to 'all in one' books.

Me, I like Vampire Counts. Tomb Kings - not so much. I mean, I like their background and stuff, but I prefer my wet dead. A bumper book would just mean a chunk of stuff I don't want to use, so I'd rather just pay for the one book of stuff I will use.

Also one of things that puts me off Warmachine. To stay up to date, I need to keep buying the books. But those books come with stuff I'm not going to use.

[Houghten]

The latest amendment to the rulebook certainly seems to suggest the End Times are here to stay:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer/WARHAMMER_RULEBOOKv1.9.pdf

50% Lords, 50% Heroes and the Lore of Undeath are now part of the core rules... although you'll still need a separate publication to find out what the Lore of Undeath does.

[Cutter]

It's not just for Christmas...

[BeardMonk]

Also one of things that puts me off Warmachine. To stay up to date, I need to keep buying the books. But those books come with stuff I'm not going to use.

Thats not actually how it works for WM/H. The new books just add new units and caster. Nothing is ever taken away, re-pointed, gets its rules changed etc. Its just new units and warjacks/beasts added for each faction.

Oh and the story moves forward a little. But nobody iv ever met plays WM/H for the fluff.

But this is why a constantly moving forward story line constantly moving forward wouldn't work for GW. Each edition new units are added, taken away, re-pointed and their rules amended. New kits are made. Its a different set up. I think we will have EoT for about 6 months then a whole new edition will be released to set all the changes and gameplay "in stone2.

[Mr Mystery]

Thats not actually how it works for WM/H. The new books just add new units and caster. Nothing is ever taken away, re-pointed, gets its rules changed etc. Its just new units and warjacks/beasts added for each faction.

Oh and the story moves forward a little. But nobody iv ever met plays WM/H for the fluff.

But this is why a constantly moving forward story line constantly moving forward wouldn't work for GW. Each edition new units are added, taken away, re-pointed and their rules amended. New kits are made. Its a different set up. I think we will have EoT for about 6 months then a whole new edition will be released to set all the changes and gameplay "in stone2.

It's more having to keep buying books to make sure I have all the rules for the new models.

Both methods have their good points - certainly Warmahordes is good for those starting out, as you only need the one book, whereas Warhammer has the continuation advantage, as you only need the rules and your army book.

Not knocking the WM method, it's just not for me :)

[Xathrodox86]

I don't think that GW will prolong the End Times ad infinitum. If anything I'm more worried about the future edition of WFB, since more and more people talk about this post-apoc scenario. As for the End Times themselves they're doing well I think. It'd be nice to have a unified Empire/Brettonia/Dwarfs army, tough I'm speaking from the perspective of and Empire player so that's that. ;)

[Carlo Riolo]

Thats not actually how it works for WM/H. The new books just add new units and caster. Nothing is ever taken away, re-pointed, gets its rules changed etc. Its just new units and warjacks/beasts added for each faction.

Oh and the story moves forward a little. But nobody iv ever met plays WM/H for the fluff.

But this is why a constantly moving forward story line constantly moving forward wouldn't work for GW. Each edition new units are added, taken away, re-pointed and their rules amended. New kits are made. Its a different set up. I think we will have EoT for about 6 months then a whole new edition will be released to set all the changes and gameplay "in stone2.

That's the way I see it too, well written Beard'.

I can see the business side of it to keep evolving, keep coming out with new models and new rules and constant updates. Which, I wouldn't put past GW in the interest of generating ongoing revenue each year. But I don't think they'll be able to keep the process indefinitely and will eventually settle on a new edition released to set all changes in stone. I feel these individual army releases are addendums/updates leading to a larger compilation text. At least, that's what I'd hope for.

I for one, have always like games with narratives and running campaigns with purpose. I think WHFB is a rich environment where stories can unfold and great scenarios made. I know I've had a lot of fun with Storm of Magic and now the prospects of End Times.

[DarkLink]

It's more having to keep buying books to make sure I have all the rules for the new models.

Their rules come with their models. You don't need to buy any of the books other than for fluff and core rules.