Imperial Armour 13

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Got the book now. Time for questions.

1. No, there are no Knights in it. Update - I spoke with the Forgeworld Knight Sculptor, Darren Parwood, about whether we might see Chaos Knights. Started off with 'I can't really talk about that', which became 'trouble is, boxed into a corner with the whole 'paragons and exemplars of Good', which turned into 'but never say never'. Make of that what you will. Just info, rather than something solid enough to become Rumour. Later conversation was about Mechanicum, and complimenting his work - he's keen to make the Dark Mechanicm even gribblier, taking the merely Darkly Gothic, and making it truly, mind numbingly horrifying, as the Adepts are no longer constrained by 'no'....

So that one out the way, start asking. Will do a super post tonight to answer :)

[Houghten]

Nurglesque pus-spewing variant on the Malcador Infernus?

[biteymcrunrun]

Is the decimator in there and are its rules similar to the current ones? Which space marine vehicles have chaos equivilents? What is the traitor guard army list like?

[DrLove42]

Can you list what relicc vehicles are in there?

Like Chaos Relic Sicaran and stuff

Nd is there an equivilent to the rites of war options the loyalists can take?

[Mr Mystery]

Right, here goes.....contents!

]Chaos Astartes Battle Tanks
Chaos Predator Battle Tank
Chaos Infernal Relic Battle Tank (all the Heresy versions. Autocannon on that is AP3...)
Chaos Vindicator Siege Tank
Chaos Relican Sicaran Battle Tank

Chaos Astartes Assault Vehicles
Chaos Land Raider
Chaos Land Raider Proteus
Chaos Infernal Relic Land Raider Achilles (oh, and for every HP knocked off that? Bigdakkafourboom gains +1S, lowers the AP by 1 (unit entry oddly worded, but example given on Pp195), and adds -1 to enemy Pinning Tests, on top of it's base -1 for Shellshock. Example mentioned? 2 HP lost makes it S7, AP3, Pinning tests at -3...
Chaos Rhino Armoured Troop Carrier

Chaos Astartes Heavy Tanks
Chaos Fellblade Super-heavy Tank
Chaos Typhon Heavy Siege Tank
Chaos Spartan Assault Tank

Chaos Astartes Attack Craft
Chaos Fire Raptor Gunship
Chaos Thunderhawk Gunsip
Chaos Hellblade (Autocannon can be upgraded to Heavy 3, Rending which I think is new? Oh, and at the start of play, you can nominate a Flyer or Flying Monstrous Creature or Gargantuan Flappy Nasty, including those in reserve. When making AP rolls or To Wound against the chosen model, 1's can be re-rolled. Which is pretty *****ing if you ask me)
Chaos Hell Talon (Again, Autocannon can be souped up)
Chaos Dreadclaw Drop Pod (does what it does. Has Assault Vehicle, and Frag Launchers. And does burninating when zipping about)
Chaos Kharybdis Assault Cloaw (biggerer version of the Dreadclaw)

Chaos Dreadnoughts & Helbrutes
Ferrum Infernus Chaos Dreadnought (Daemon Prince waiting to happen, for 25 points)
Emperor's Children Sonic Dreadnought (Warp Amp doubles the shots of it's Sonic weapons if it remains stationary in a turn, and can give all sonic weapons Rending at the price of Gets Hot!)
Chaos Contemptor Dreadnought

Daemon Engines
The Machine Daemonica (fluff stuff, but reading through the contents as printed to avoid missing gubbins off)
Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne
Blood Slaughterer of Khorne
Chaos Rapier Weapons Carrier
Chaos Decimator
Blight Drones
Plague Hulk of Nurgle

Chaos Titans
Chaos Reaver Battle Titan
Chaos Warhound Titan

Renegades and Heretics
Full army list and that.

Appendices
Appendix I - Legacies of Ruin ( I assume the Rites of War equivalent, but see below *)
Appendix II - Special Rules
- Vehicle Summary
- Weapons Summary
Appendix III: Lords of the Abyss (honking geet Daemons

There, that's what's in it.

*I'm not presently up to date on my IA collection, so sadly I can't say if something has been nerfed, buffed, zerged, zomg'd, buggered, petted, polished or pooped on. All I can give is the rule, and my opinion on it based on what is in front of me. Nor can I go comparing across Loyalist stuff, except using HH Vol 1, which may not be a fair comparison, as I don't have the Loyalist books for a three way (oooer!) comparison.

Pick of the book for me, based on what I've read so far.....

Hell Talon and Hell Blade. Not only am I a sucker for Flyers, not only are they really nice models, but they have an X-Wing style Barrel Roll in the shape of 'Baleful Aberration'....


Tainted by the vile rites performed during it's creation, this vehicle is a wound in the fabric of reality and it's presence is accompanied by visual and auditory hallucinations, as well as atmospheric disturbances, darkening the very skies as it passes. A vehicle with this special rule gains a 5+ Invulnerable Save and during the Movement Phase, before the vehicle is moved, it may be repositioned D6+2" in any direction (but may not change it's current facing, or be repositioned over another model or its base

Ace rule - though a bit concerned by the lack of 'up to' on the D6+2"....

[Mr Mystery]

Nurglesque pus-spewing variant on the Malcador Infernus?

Sadly not :)

[Mr Mystery]

Legacies of Ruin anyone? I shan't post points in line with posting rules. I don't want anyone to get into troub (especially me)

Veteran of the Scouring
Any Tank or Super Heavy (sep costs) - It Will Not Die, and Preferred Enemy (Space Marines). Can be taken by a CSM Walker or Super-heavy Walker - It Will Not Die, Hatred (SM)

War within the Eye
Tank and Supes (sep costs) - Adamantium Will, Preferred Enemy (CSM). Walker or Supe Walker - Adamantium Will, Hated (CSM)

Maelstrom Rider (I likes this one!)
Vehicle or Supes - Outflank and Fear

Death of Kasyr Lutien
Vehicle or Supes - Fear, and any friendly Malific powers cast within 12" can re-roll one D6 for each remaining Hull Point

Blood of Mackan
Tank or Supes - Preferred Enemy (Blood Angels), Defence Lines and Barricades do not count as Dangerous Terrain. If fitted with Destroyer Blades, when Tank Shocking, and after Death or Glorying, gains AP equal to it's remaining Hull Points (in excess of 6 being - instead)

Siege of Vraks
Vehicle or Supes - Ignores Dangerous Terrain damage on a 4+, and re=roll failed To Hits against targets located in Defence Lines

Fourth Quadrant Rebellion
Vehicles and Supes - Friendly units of Cultists within 12" are Fearless, and when down to it's last Hull Point, gets a 4+ Invulnerable

Badab Uprising
Tank and Supes - Fear and Preferred Enemy (SM). Walkers and Supe Walkers - Rage and Hatred (CSM)

Scourge of the Greenskins
Tanks only - extra D6" when Tank Shocking, and Preferred Enemy (Orks)

Last of the Forge
Vehicle with Transport Capacity only - Stunned and Shaken ignored on a 4+ (hull points lost as normal), Preferred Enemy (Tyranids), and transported unit gains Hatred (Tyranids)....*cough Kharybdis cough*

Screams of Lugganath
Vehicle or Supes - When attacked by Eldar, has Fear, and if equipped with a Dirge Caster, increases the range of it by 12"

Perdus Rift Anamoly
Vehicles and Supes - If deployed (as in, on the board, not held in reserves) at the beginning of the game, you can re-roll to seize the initiative, Preferred Enemy (Tau)

1st War for Armageddon
Vehicle or Supes - Daemonic Saves made within 6" improve by 1, to a max of 2+, and has Fear when attacked by Astra Militarum Forces

(almost there! Stay on target!)

Vessel of Akashneth of the Boiling Brass
Vehicle or Supes - Fear, and friendly units with an Icon of Wrath within 12" count as having inflicted an additional D3 wounds for the purposes of working out who wins an assault, (also counts as Daemonic Possession as per CSM book)

Vessel of Shyak The Seeker
Vehicle or Supes - Fear, enemy units within 12" of an Icon of Excess roll an additional D6 and discard the lowest on ANY Leadership based test (emphasis mine) (also counts as Daemonic Possession as per CSM book)

Vessel of Dhornurgh The Reborn
Vehicles and Supes - Fear, all friendly units within 6" with the Icon of Despair have the Gets Hot! and Rending special rules in HTH (also counts as Daemonic Possession as per CSM book)

Vessel of Tzenahk the Occluder
Vehicle and Supes - Fear. At the beginning of the game, roll a D6... 1. If this vehicle is destroyed, opponent bags an extra VP. 2-6. If it survives, you get an additional D3 VPs. (also counts as Daemonic Possession as per CSM book)

Auloth the Primordial Iterator
Vehicle and Supes - Fear, all weapons gain Pinning. All friendly units within 12" have the Fear and FnP special rules (also counts as Daemonic Possession as per CSM book)


Crikey. Blimey. Fingers tired. Hopefully that's enough for you to salivate over (and hopefully not rage over. I like the rules, but as above, have no objective opinion as to points and effectiveness. I just think the rules sound cool :)

[Zeratil]

What sort of special rules or flavour do the chaos versions have generally? Do they appear different to the loyalist ones through getting dedications or similar?

What are the Chaos Fire Raptor rules like?

[Lexington]

Thanks for the sneak peek, Mystery. Holy...hell. Those sound almost too good to be true. IA13 is going to be a must-own for Chaos players, I think.

Would love to hear what's in the Lost & the Damned army list, if/when you've got time.

[bodhimind]

Any chance you could say what Lords of War are allowed for the renegades?

[Mr Mystery]

Depends which God you follow, and who your Bossman is....

All get - Malcador, Malador Defender, Minotaur and Bandblades.

Demagogue Devotions open up...

The Bloody Handed Reaver
Lord of Skulls
Greater Brass Scorpion

Primaris-rogue Witch
All for of the big Daemons, but no more than 25% of your army's total points

Mutant Overlord
Giant Chaos Spawn
Spined Chaos Beast
Both are 1-3 per choice, but no mixy-matchy.

Master of the Horde
Nowt!

Arch-heretic Revolutionary
Macharius Heavy Tank
Macharius Vanquisher
Macharius Vulcan
Macharius Omega (IA Vol 1, 2nd Ed)

Heretek Magus (yep, you read that right!)
Valdor Tank Hnt (IA Vol 1, 2nd Ed)
Chaos Warhound
Chaos Reaver
Greater Brass Scorpion

[Zeratil]

Thanks for the info! Do the Chaos Sicaran or Fire Raptor have any special chaos-y rules? What missile options does the Fire Raptor have?

[Mr Mystery]

Thanks for the sneak peek, Mystery. Holy...hell. Those sound almost too good to be true. IA13 is going to be a must-own for Chaos players, I think.

Would love to hear what's in the Lost & the Damned army list, if/when you've got time.

You're a hard task master - but I've got 40 minutes before Doctor Who....

LOTS of special rules.....

Vox-Caster

Command Net Vox

Sub-flak Armour (6+ sv)

Chaos Sigil (ignore first failed Morale or Pinning test each game turn

Combat Drug Injectors - activate on charge. gains Rage, but T test at end of combat or remove D3 models, no saves at all at all.

Banner of Hate - All infantry from same Primary detachment with one or more models (Clarity!) within 12" roll 3D6 for Pinning and Morale, discarding the lowest

Banner of the Apostate - +1 to combat score, not cumulative with each other

Army Special Rules

Uncertain Worth - Random Ld - D6+4, roll when it's first used (sticks for the rest of the game, usual modifiers apply)

Curse of Mutation - before deployment, D6. 1-2, Fear and all friendly units without Curse of Mutation rule -1 Ld when within 6". 3-4, Unnatural Sense. Acute Senses and Scout, but count all Blast, Barrage and Heavy Weapons as having the Blind Special Rule. 5-6, Horns, Claws and Fangs. Hammer of Wrath, HoW +1 S, but must always declare a charge in any friendly assault phase when enemy are within 12". If multiple qualifying units, you get to choose who you declare the charge against.

Chaos Covenant (hold onto your pants, and grab the Kleenex....)
Renegades and Heretics with this may select one of the following.
Khorne - Any unit with at least one model with this re-roll ALL failed to wound in the first round of any Close Combat
Nurgle - As above, but FnP 6+
Slaanesh - As above, Fleet
Tzeentch - As above, but BS2(!) Snap Shots......

Fanatic
When determining Ld for Uncertain Worth, roll an additional D6 and ditch the lowest.

Aura of the Witch
Unit must be modelled with a pointy hat, a Parsnip nose, and a Wart. Gains 5+ Invulnerable save, and Fear, but cannot join another unit, or be the Warlord. Part of this listing is untrue. Can you spots it?

Bloody hell. There's loads and loads more! Need a break. Gimme a couple of hours! For now - BUGGER OFF! :p

[Lexington]

You've done your duty, sir. Go enjoy yourself. Thanks a ton this sneak peek!

[Deadlift]

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/joenortonjones/34fb4955c42b9d0f8b485bb859b3e6e0.jpg

Thank matey. Lots of info there. You've twisted my arm, I'm buying the book.

[Mr Mystery]

Right...Demagogue Devotions. A single Demagogue in any one Command Squad (so just the one devotion then!) can have one of the follow upgrades.

Primaris-rogue Witch. Lvl 1 Psyker, Upgradeable to Lvl 2, opens up Malefic, Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telekinesis. Cannot then take Covenant of Khorne, BT, Rogue Psyker Covens become Elites as well as HQ (Witches, Witches as far as the eye can see!)

Mutant Overlord
Roll three times on the following table, and both the dude and his squad get the Curse of Mutation rule.... 1 - Reduce I or A of model by -1, re-roll additionals of this result. 2 -3. +1 to WS or BS, 4-5 +1 to S or T, 6 - +1 W, gains Slow and Purposeful and Bulky - re-roll additional results. Must take at least TWO Mutant Rabble units, and may select a single unit of Renegade Chaos Spawn as a non-Compulsory Troops choice, allows Ogryn Brutes to purchase Curse of Mutation for +15 points.

Master of the Horde
When an individual Renegade Infantry Squad bought as part of the same army as this dude, and numbering 15+ at the start of game, when wiped out, recycle on a 5+. Identical bar Ded Trans. Must take at least TWO Renegade Infantry Platoons, but squad size of those goes up to 30....

Arch-Heretic Revolutionary
ains Zealot, and can take a Covenant of Chaos for no additional cost. Renegade Infantry and Renegade Veterans can have Fanatic for fixed points per unit, and Enforcer Cadres can include up to 10, instead of 5 Enforcers

Heretek Magus
3+ Sv, T+1, FnP 6+. Can now take Defilers as HS, and Decimators as Elite. And the following units get FnP 6+ for a very modest cost.... Command Squads, Infantry Platoons, Veteran Squads, Disciple Squads, Heavy Ordnance Batteries, Support Squads, Rapier Laser Destroyer Batteries, Field Artillery Batteries

Bloody-handed Reaver
Refractor Field and Krak Grenades, can replace pistol with hot-shot las pistol or hot shot las gun. Infantry Veterans can upgrade to Renegade Grenadiers for modest points. BS+1, all pistol replace with hot-shot Lasguns or Hot-shot Pistols. For every 5 models, Grenadiers can replace a hot-shot Lasgun for a Hot-shot Volley Gun, again for modest points. Militia Training can be purchased for the following units, giving them proper, 5+ Flak - Infantry Platoons, Mutant Rabble, Heavy Ordnance Batteries, Support Squads, Laser Destroyer Batteries, Field Artillery Batteries.

Right.....15 minutes to Dr Who.....

WARLORD TRAITS!

1. Fanatical Convert - When a unit with Uncertain Worth is destroyed within 12" of this model, roll a D6 - on a 5+, you get a VP too (sorry what????)
2. Iron-Fisted Tyrant - At the start of your turn, you can remove D3 models from the Warlords unit from play, and a single fleeing friendly unit with Uncertain Worth may immediately regroup (anything but a 2 you say?
3. Prophet of Doom - Beginning of any turn, including your opponents, pick a Reserve roll. You can make it a 2+ for success, or 6+ for success, regardless of current turn or any other modifiers (now imagining a Lictor being doused in Febreze)
4. Arisan of Death - If engage in HTH during its I step, but not in base to base with an enemy model, you can forfeit all his attacks to inflict on S3, AP2, Poison 4+ on any enemy model (mmm, snipey!) within 3"....including models in a challenge
5. Blasphemous Iconoclast - Once per turn, during your shooting phase, nominate a friendly unit within 12" - It rolls an additional D6 when rolling on the Building Damage table, using the highest (erm....kinda useful. Sometimes. But I guess when it is, it really is?)
6. Soul-scarred Terror. At I1 step of any Fight sub-phase, roll a D6 for each enemy model in btb with this Warlord. On a 6, they take an automatic wound. He also causes Fear (not bad. Still want a 1 though. 1 is ace!)

[Mr Mystery]

Fave Units Part Twooooooo!

Ferrum Infernus Dreadnought.

It's a Venerable Dread type, without the BLARG GRIBBLE NO BINKY THEY'RE ON OUR SIDE! table. Instead, it has a choice of three upgrades.

1 is Host of Daemonic Icon - Gains Daemonic Resilience (need to look that up), and any Hull Point lost in HTH causes a S4 AP3 on the offending unit - MEH!

Destroyer of Cities - Gets the Assault Drill (fun!) and Flamespurt Cannon(?), +1 front AV, and has Move Through Cover, and in Cities of Death gets Wrecker.

But the besterest?

Lord of the Long War. I'll skip the flavour text for now....but...if it's destroyed by an EXPLODES result? Roll a D6.
1-2 Replace it with a Chaos Spawn
3-4 Re-roll the damage dice. Needs a second ASPLODE result to do so, otherwise apply the re-roll result
5-6 DEAR GODS. IT'S ONLY GONE AND HATCHED INTO A SODDING GREAT DAEMON PRINCE! (as per Dark Apotheosis result on Boon table).
And he can fight in challenges (no, I bloody well would not like to accept that. I'm taking my power fist and going home. Sod the lot of you...hold on, I'm sure I had legs a second ago).

Loads of the usual toys for it to pick as well. And can have Malefic Ammo, which in this case grants all Heavy Bolters or Autocannon carried Rending. Wee bit pricey though...

[Lexington]

Woo hoo!

Specific Q: is the Dreadclaw A Dedicated Transport, or does it take up its own slot?

[Mr Mystery]

CSM Squads, Chosen, Ferrum Infernus, Sonic Dread, Helbrutes - Dedicated Transport (and it's an Assault Vehicle, but no Assault from Deep Strike still).

Also a Fast Attack choice.

Same cost as a Nightscythe.

[Mr Mystery]

Renegades list is.....comprehensive!

And it includes Wyverns. And Griffons. And loads of stuff. Very much IG but with lots of knobs on. Different choices depending on your Demagogue.

And....souped up Spawn. They've got a random mutation table....4+ Armour Save is one of the results, another is roll an additional D6 for the attacks, using the highest.

- - - Updated - - -

Right. Been up since 6:00 am, and driven for around 6 hours. I'm off to my bed, and will be giving this book a damned good read!

[daboarder]

Mucho apprecio.

Sound lkke they fixed chaos dreads...so AWESOME.

can we get clarrification on how dread claws enter....are they stuck flying in turn two (meaning turn 3 drop at earliest) or can we get T1 drops like pods?

[NoiseMarine19]

I'd hate to be a bother, but could you maybe list a list of what units are available for the Lost and the Damned? It'll help when I'm making a shopping list for my traitor guard!

[FalxCerebri]

Man, thank you so much for sharing this knowledge with us! Damn, I'd buy this book if could get myself to Games Day. Anyway, could you write something more about Noise Dreadnoughts? Are these Warp Amp options or are included? I'd love to know the points etc. as I'm having 5 of these guys... :>

[bodhimind]

Mucho apprecio.

Sound lkke they fixed chaos dreads...so AWESOME.

can we get clarrification on how dread claws enter....are they stuck flying in turn two (meaning turn 3 drop at earliest) or can we get T1 drops like pods?

Both assault claws have Drop Pod Assault in 30k, and the big one is usable by chaos in 40k with it already, so it's probably safe to assume they will keep it. Interestingly only the larger one has internal guidance, but landing in hover mode means if you get shot down, you're not going to all die in a flaming wreck.

[Nid Bits]

Any difference for the blight drones compared to IA Apocalypse?

[Mr Mystery]

That I can't say - I don't currently own IA Apocalypse.

And now for something slightly different.

As I headed off into the land of nod last night, I was reading some of the background in the book. Sporadic and spotty page hopping was done.

Timeline is pretty extensive, and usual Forgeworld quality. Particular giggle was a reference to Metamarines...

But, most importantly? We have absolute, 100% confirmation that there are Daemon Engine Knights. Two page Inquisitorial letter 'The Machina Daemonica' mentions, right at the end sez...


The class (referring to Manifest or Incarnate Daemon Engines) may also include those engines that appear to be debased mockeries of our own glorious and noble Knights; the Hell Knight, Questor, Subdjugtor, Hell Scourge and Hell Strider. My studies on this matter remain inclusive (sic) and incomplete, and my agents have made contact with our allies, the Relictors, so that the matter be addressed more thoroughly

Now, combine with my chinwag with Darren Parwood (lovely bloke!) and we may have something approaching a rumour....

[DrLove42]

I am really looking forward to this now.

My chaos have been played alotrecently and are lagging a bit. Some fresh blood and some chaos drop pods (yay!) are good.

Did they give any indicaton on regular release?

[Mr Mystery]

Didn't think to ask!

I'd reckon within the next few weeks though.

Also worth noting - the burninating thing on the Dreadclaw is an optional rather than compulsory attack, so when Deep Striking in, you don't need to worry about roasting your own dude!

[DrLove42]

For a normal chaos army does it still have the rule that you need to take a Warpsmith to take more than one relic vehicle?

[Mr Mystery]

Kind of!

One Relic can be taken. But, if you want more than one, you need Abaddon, OR a Warpsmith, OR a Sorceror with Maelfic.

[DrLove42]

Well i refuse to take Abaddon in a Word Bearers list, i actively despise Deamonic powers so Warpsmith it is!

[Nid Bits]

Are blight drones still flyers, av?, daenomic special powers (5++), resilence (fnp), etc?

[daboarder]

in a Word Bearers list, i actively despise Deamonic powers

wait...isn't that an oxymoron?

[Mr Mystery]

Are blight drones still flyers, av?, daenomic special powers (5++), resilence (fnp), etc?

Flyer, Hover. 12/11/10, Daemon of Nurgle, Daemonic Resilience.

Also, not sure if new, but Titans can be made Daemons now.

[DrLove42]

Happy with allied deamons, but hate the summoning powers as i feel they unbalence the game massively

[daboarder]

Happy with allied deamons, but hate the summoning powers as i feel they unbalence the game massively

Eh they only really do that when they are spammed, its too hit and miss/ risky with just one of two summoners

[Mr Mystery]

Any other questions out there?

[NoiseMarine19]

Could you maybe give us a list of what AM/IG units are available for the Lost and the Damned list?

[CrownAxe]

What about the plague hulk? what weapons does it have and is it still the same cost as a blight drone?

[CrownAxe]

What about the Plague Hulk? what guns does it have?

Also The Chaos Rapier Carrier is a daemon engine? How does that work?

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

what did they do with blight drones did they stay at 2hp or did they go back to 3 hp? so far they have changed each and every time they have been updated?

[Defibrillator-Saurus]

How has scaebithrax (the nurgle daemon lord) changed from previous editions? What are some of his cool special rules? Do the daemon lords finally have the character rule!?! Thank you so much for doing this, so excited about this book.

[bodhimind]

Any other questions out there?

Do the rhinos/predators/land raiders/vindicators have any additional options or just in there for fun?

What is the armament like on the Hell Blade? Apoc barrage?

What are the sonic dreads weapon options like?

Does the decimators finally not suck?

Why are Rapier weapons in the daemon section?

Can the options in the renegade list be taken within a CSM army, or is it a totally stand alone list that can be allied in?

Thanks so much!

[Devilmixer]

What can you tell us abut th sonic dread??

and can noise marines go in a deathclaw

[nurglesrott]

Really would like to know about the big daemons, but mostly stats questions and comparisons to the apoc book, which you already said you aren't doing. So... how many wounds does scabby have in this one?? :P And are the daemon saves still 3+ for the big guys? Thanks!

[Venomlust]

Wow. This is the book I was hoping for. Thanks so much for sharing all the info thus far.

How is the Blood Slaughterer? Does it have 2 CCW now? How many base attacks?

What weapon options are available for the Rapier?

What options does the Land Raider Proteus have? Same as loyalists or modified?

Thanks for your time!

[Mr Mystery]

Rhinos/Predators/Land Raiders/Vindicators - they're in there for completeness. Don't even have rules!

Hell Talon - Now a Fast Attack choice. Comes with a choice of bombs. Eight Pyrax (S5, AP4, Ignore Cover, Blast) the standard. These can be switched out, on a one for one basis for Baletalon Shatter Charge (S*, AP4, Heavy 3, Unguided*), Alchem Cluster Bomb (S-, AP5, Heavy 3, Barrage, Blast, Poisoned 4+) Warp-pulse bombs (S2, AP2, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind, Haywire).

*Unguided - always treated as a Snap Shot

Sonic weapons are sonic weapons. Can overdrive them to gain Gets Hot! and Rending. Warp Amp doubles the output if the Dread remains Stationary

No idea. Rules are in there, but I have no point of reference I'm afraid.

Rapier - Because it's cool? I dunno. It's not especially Daemonic, but I do like the idea of it being a teenytiny posssed dakka platform. Perhaps yapping like a Yorkshire Terrier when not shooting. Oh and it has extra weapon options - Quad Heavy Bolter (standard), Laser Destroyer, Ectoplasma Cannon, Hades Autocannon, Cyclotrathe patter conversion beamer.

Renegade and Heretic Armies are a full stand alone army. For the purpose of Allies, book says 'When selecting an allied contingent for an army using the Allies Matrix, a Renegades and Heretics army is considered identical to a standard CSM ary; save that it may select an allied contingent from a CSM Faction as Battle Brothers**, and a CSM army may select an allied contingent from the Renegades and Heretics list as Battle Brothers**

**Battle Big Brothers, given what's likey to occur after the victory.
*** Battle Little Brothers, given what's like to occur after the victory.


Blight Drones now HP2.

[Sinner098]

Any other questions out there?

Can we get a full break down of units in the renegades list? Thanks for everything! Very excited for this to go on order!

[Scabs]

Thank you for posting Mr Mystery. Can you please shed any light on the Daemon Lords if they are indeed included in the book?

[Sinner098]

Any other questions out there?

Could we get a full unit break down on the renegade list? Thanks for all the info!

[Devilmixer]

is the sonic dread an upgrade for hellbrutes or a unit in it self?

what is the standart load out for one?

[Syphid]

Any other questions out there?

Are chem mortars still available for traitor guard?

[Syphid]

Any other questions out there?

Are chem mortars still available to renegades and heretics list?

[kontraktkiller]

Just really want to clarify the rules on the dreadclaw. Does it have the drop pod assault rule? Also, does it come with any weapons/attacks/special rules?

[kontraktkiller]

Can you give us the rules for the dreadclaw?

[Mr Mystery]

Just had a PM question from a newcomer who can't yet post, and it's regarding Drop Pod Assault for the Dreadclaw and Kharybdis....


A Chaos Dreadclaw, and any unit it transports, must always be held in reserve and always enters play using the Deep Strike rules, and counts as a Drop Pod for the wider use of the Drop Pod Assault rule for the army (eg, if a Kharybdis Assault Claw is also taken). At the beginning of the controlling player's first turn, they must choose half of their Drop Pod units (rounding up) to make a Drop Pod Assault., These units arrive on their controlling player's first player turn. The arrival of the remaining Drop Pods in the player's force is rolled for as usual for the mission. A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod may not assault in the turn it arrives. In the case of the Chaos Dreadclaw, unlike other Drop Pods, it is not immobile. However, after it has landed, it is treated as a Flyer with Hover mode (which starts off as hovering after it has arrived via Deep Strike)

Above is verbatim from the book.

[ChaosReigns]

Wow! Thanks for all of the info Mr. Mystery. I'm definitely looking forward to this release. :)

I do have a couple questions:

In the original Siege of Vraks books the Renegades and Heretics (in different god-specific army lists) could take Beastmen and Plague Zombies as troops. Is this still a possibility, albeit in the same list? Maybe they can be unlocked?

On that note, how many "Chaosy" options can the Renegades and Heretics take in terms of units? Is it mostly just a Traitor Guard army, or are there a lot of "Lost and the Damned" style units as well? Are there any Chaos Space Marines in the army at all? You used to be able to take Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers or generic Chaos Marines as elites and there were some Chaos Marine HQ choices available as well.

Thanks again!

[bodhimind]

The Talon sounds fun! Anything that lets it drop more than 1 bomb a turn?

Oh and about the sonic dread, I meant what other options it has, like can it take a missile launcher, or stuck with a power fist, etc.

[Mr Mystery]

Not that I can see. However, never used a bomber in my puff, so dunno what the usual rules are. Does seem a bit odd, seeing as it has 8 of them!

Also, smidge more on the Sonic Dread...

Better WS and BS than most, no Rampage table, comes with twin linked Sonic Blaster (upgradeable to Blastmaster), Chainfist with built-in Storm Bolter (NOT combi bolter), Doom Siren, Smoke Launcher and Searchlight. Dedicated to Slaanesh - counts as having Assault and Defensive Grenades.

[Mr Mystery]

Contemptor Dread - is pretty filth.

WS5, BS4, S7, 13/12/10, IdA3 HP3

Pretty standard loadout to start, but has Fleet (really), Adamantium Will (really) and Hellfire Reactor - 4+ Inv against Glancing, 6+ Inv against Penetrating. In close combat, and model with the Psyker special rule takes an automatic S2 AP2 hit at Initiative 10 step (oh HAI GREY KNIGHTS!). Downside? +D3 to asplosion radius and hits from that have Soul Blaze.

But....the upgrades...LAWKSAMERCY!

Usual toys for Contemptors (see Forgeworld website) along with? Butcher Cannon, and any CombiBolter can be upgraded to Heavy Flamer, Plasma Blaster, Meltagun, or a Soul Burner (24", S4, AP4, Blast, Rending). Can also have a carapace mounted Havoc Launcher.

Dedication's what ya need, sang Roy Castle at the start of Record Breakers when I was a nipper, and it's good advice for a Contemptor...

Khorne's your daddy? Rage and Rampage for you.
Nurgle's your Grandpa? It Will Not Die
Slaanesh your biatch? Assault and Defensive Grenades counts as
Tzeentch your bird? Re-roll Inv saves of 1, and all Heavy Flamers get Soul Blaze.

I like Khorne and Nurgle the best!

[bodhimind]

Oh I love Contemptor! How's that decimator then? :D

[Mr Mystery]

WS3, BS3 12/12/11 I3 A3 HP3

Daemon, Unholy Vigour (potentially unkillable, 5+ to avoid explode, instead being left on it's side. If so, every turn roll a D6. 1? Take it off. 2-5 leave it, 6+ back up with D3 hull points, all weapons and legs fixed.

Siege Claws S user, AP2, Shred, Smash (D6 heavy flamer hits on units inside a building suffering a penetrating hit, for each Heavy Flamer the model has).

Khorne - Rampage
Nurgle - It Will Not Die
Slaanesh - Assault and Defensive Grenades
Tzeentch - re-roll shooting attacks of 1, and Heavy Flamers gain Soul Blaze.

Ignores Crew Shaken and Stunned on a 2+.

Nowt wrong with it, but I prefer the look of the Contemptor :)

[Torquato]

Question: what are the infantry units represented in the renegades list? is it an IG or a Vraks (IA 5, 6, 7) equivalent? What options can the infantry units take?

Are there any commands like the Imperial Guard? What kind of synnergies can special characters give to the footsoldiers (like heretic preachers, traitor-commisars etc.)?

Is the plague mortars cheese still in?


Thank You in advance.

[Torquato]

What are the options for chaos infantry? What kind of units do we have and what kind of synnergies (like ministorum Priest + loyalist AM guardsmen) can we have?

[bodhimind]

Tell me if this is too much, but how about just a list of units in the Renegades list? No details (unless you see something really exciting), but it would be cool to know the options available to these guys. I've got a copy already coming to me in the post from the UK, haha.

[Mr Mystery]

Right. The big one. List of what's in the Renegade army list.....

HQ
1+ Renegade Command Squad
0-1 Rogue Psyker Coven (well funny. If you Perils, model becomes Possessed!)
0-1 Renegade Enforce Cadre

Elites
Renegade Marauder Squad (Mercs essentially, think IG Veterans but can take Brutes which are like Ogryns, sort of. Really hard to describe!)
Renegade Chaos Spawn (as normal, but with gribbly bonus table for HTH - 1-2 4+ Sv 3-4 2D6 pick highest for attacks 5-6 Poisoned 4+)
Renegade Disciple Squad (again, kinda IG Veterans, options for Carapace and that)
Renegade Ogryn Brutes (can buy hunting hounds - which are ace!)
Renegade Blood Slaughters (Master of Renegade Demagogue only, and need Covenant of Khorne, 0-1)
Renegade Blight Drones (Master of Renegade Demagogue only, and need Covenant of Nurgle, 0-1)

Troops
Renegade Infantry Platoon (can increase numbers in squads, one squad nominated as Command Squad, otherwise 3pt IG, WS2 and BS2)
Renegade Mutant Rabble
Renegade Infantry Veterans
Plague Zombie Horde (Warp Plague special rule - gain D3 Zombies every time it destroys, or breaks, and enemy unit in HTH, 3pts a chuck, FnP 4+....needs Master of Renegades Demagogue)

Dedicated Transports
Renegade Chimera

Fast Attack
Renegade Hellhound Squadron (1-4, all variants available)
Renegade Sentinel Squadron (3, can include up to 3 more per squadron, WS2 and BS2, which can be upgraded to WS3 BS3)
Renegade Salamander Squadron
Renegade Arvus Lighter Squadron
Renegade Valkyrie Squadron (BS2, can upgrade to BS3). No option for Vendetta.

Heavy Support
Renegade Tank Squadron (All Russ variants, BS2, 1-3, can upgrade to BS3)
Renegade Artillery Squadron (Basilisk and Medusa, BS2, 1-3, can upgrade to BS3)
Renegade Strike Battery (Griffons and Wyverns, 1-5...yes, 5 sodding Wyverns per choice, BS2 as if it mattered with that much dakka, can upgrade to BS3)
Renegade Hydra Battery (BS2, upgrades to BS3, 1-3)
Renegade Bombard Battery (1-3 Colossus, BS2 upgradeable to BS3)
Renegade Heavy Ordnance Battery (immobile Earthshakers, can upgrade to Medusa Siege Guns, 1-3, usual BS stuff)
Renegade Support Squad (Weapons Teams, 3-6)
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (1-3)
Renegade Field Artillery Battery (1-4 Heavy Quad Launchers or Heavy Mortars, usual BS stuff)

Lords of War already covered.

- - - Updated - - -

In short? Renegades are more IG than wot IG are! So, so much Dakka, and I suspect Chaos Players will be allying for a little revenge, using the 5 Wyvern option....

[Venomlust]

Wow. That army sounds terrible with BS2 across the board.

[bodhimind]

Thank you kindly!

[daboarder]

This is great, so much fixed for chaos. A plethora of unique weapons and wargear that really really makes us stand out from the loyalists and not just be ****ty marines....SOOOOOO GOOD

Bit disapointed that the renegades are WS/BS 2 as opposed to 3, I was hoping they'd have a stat distinction from cultists....ah well that is a minor minor quibble next to the rest of this glory....

AND WORKING DREADCLAWS FINALLY!!!

[Mr Mystery]

Infantry Squads can be upgraded to BS and WS3, at a flat cost for the unit.

So, good value for a 10 man squad, twice as good for 20 man squads, and if you've taken Master of the Horde, opening up a squad size of 30, frankly bloody excellent value....

Other flat value upgrades are Sub-Flak (so they get a 6+ save as opposed to none), and Krak Grenades.

For every 5 models, you can have one of the following - Flamer, Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Vox Caster, Chaos Sigil.

For every 10, you can add a Weapons Team with the usual, plus Heavy Stubber option.

Pistol and CCW standard, free upgrade to pistol to Lasgun, Autogun or Shotgun....

Sample?

Let's say I have a Master of the Horde, and max out a troop choice, without the BS upgrade. 5 Squads would be 450 points, with a total of 150 oiks.

Same, but upgraded to WS3 BS3? 500 points.......

- - - Updated - - -

Sicaran...

Comes with Twin-linked Sicaran autocannon, which are hideous, 6 shot, Rending Autocannon which deny jink saves, and a heavy bolter. Can have sponson Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, and all heavy bolters can be upgraded to rending.

In short, it's a very, very bad day waiting to happen to MEQ and Tau etc!

[bodhimind]

Wow those infantry sound great, how about the mutant rabble?!

[daboarder]

Infantry Squads can be upgraded to BS and WS3, at a flat cost for the unit.

So, good value for a 10 man squad, twice as good for 20 man squads, and if you've taken Master of the Horde, opening up a squad size of 30, frankly bloody excellent value....

Other flat value upgrades are Sub-Flak (so they get a 6+ save as opposed to none), and Krak Grenades.

For every 5 models, you can have one of the following - Flamer, Grenade Launcher, Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Vox Caster, Chaos Sigil.

For every 10, you can add a Weapons Team with the usual, plus Heavy Stubber option.

Pistol and CCW standard, free upgrade to pistol to Lasgun, Autogun or Shotgun....

Sample?

Let's say I have a Master of the Horde, and max out a troop choice, without the BS upgrade. 5 Squads would be 450 points, with a total of 150 oiks.

Same, but upgraded to WS3 BS3? 500 points.......

- - - Updated - - -

Sicaran...

Comes with Twin-linked Sicaran autocannon, which are hideous, 6 shot, Rending Autocannon which deny jink saves, and a heavy bolter. Can have sponson Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, and all heavy bolters can be upgraded to rending.

In short, it's a very, very bad day waiting to happen to MEQ and Tau etc!


awesome great to hear.

[Mr Mystery]

Wow those infantry sound great, how about the mutant rabble?!

Much as the infantry, but fewer options. They do however come with that mutation rule I waffled about earlier, which can make them pretty pokey.

- - - Updated - - -

And apologies for the lack of cohesion in my posts. I'm a bugger for page hopping on new books, and often forget to check everything in the first sweep, typically out of warm, nerdy excitement at new stuff to read!

[daboarder]

dude, dont apologise, this is great, a real treat for us chaos players man

[Mr Mystery]

I am halfway tempted by a Renegade army - mostly because as much as FW do gorgeous models, they can be made up from IG kits with a suitable paintjob - which is pretty cool.

But, gonna stick with my Mechanicum route for now. Main reason is my local club often do multiple player Heresy games, and Mechanicum can join either side. Plus, Darren Parwood is promising some really, really grotesque stuff to come, especially for the Dark Mechanicum, who get to do all the forbidden stuff. And that psychology really appears to me. Having the ethical restraints, which already don't include lobotomised, zombie like tech thralls, removed - who knows where that might end up? I'm imaging a much less artful, far more brutally efficient version of Haemonculi dabblings. That'd be ace!

Hope this book comes out soon. I'd be surprised if it's not out by the end of the month like!

Best horror thing in the Mechanicum so far? Those Tech Thralls? The helmet they wear gives the Tech Priest total control over them. And the mind inside that helmet? Fully. Aware. You know what is going on around you, but you have absolutely no control at all. Which is a far worse fate than being a Servitor, where you're (allegedly) fully mind-wiped.....

[Lexington]

So, on the Contemptor Dread, can the Chaos version wield double-shooty like some of their Imperial counterparts can?

[Mr Mystery]

Yuparoo.

Though I'd be tempted by DCW, Chainfist, both with Soul Burners, and a Havoc Launcher. Does horrible things to most troops, and can smack seven shades of something unpleasant out of anything it can't reliably dakka up.

Arm options are.....

To replace Twinlinked Heavy Bolters....

Multi-melta, Twin-linked Auto Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Butcher Cannon (36" S8 AP4 Heavy 4), Heavy Conversion Beamer, DCW with combibolter

To replace the DCW

Chainfist, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Auto Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Butcher Cannon, Twin-linked Lascannon

- - - Updated - - -

They too get Malefic Ammo for Heavy Bolters, giving them Rending.

Weird upgrade. It's nicey but pricey if you ask me. On some stuff, it gives HBs and Autocannon rending, but on most, it's just HBs that benefit.

And defo worth it on the Sicaran. I don't think anyone could possibly fail to fear 15 rending shots a turn!

[Crowleraptor]

Firstly thanks for all your work posting this up - much appreciated!

I do have a few burning questions!

Does the Sicaran have chaosy wargear options, havok launcher etc

Your writeup of the decimator looked like it was nerfed in a few ways, did it drop in points? It sat around the defiler mark before.

You mentioned the predator autocannon as AP 3 on the relic pred... Is it heavy 4 like the horus heresy versions?

What chaotic rules does the fellblade have? Upgrades are also something im interested in!

[McGibs]

Wow, thanks so much for this peek! I'm super excited by all these shiny new reinforcements.
Contemptor sounds about the same as the Apoc2013 version, unless there's some price differences (easy to get to landraider costs)

Some questions:
Whats up with the Giant Chaos Spawn, and Spined Chaos Beast? They also have rules in the Apoc2013 book, with the spawn being cheap carnifex-esque MCs, and the beasts being utter trash by comparison. I noticed you listed them as LoW choices? Have they been beefed up into gargants?

Any more information on the Blood Slaughterers? Mainly how their harpoon/impaler works. Currently, it doesnt use BS to hit for some reason, and hits on a 4+, making it a sticky area as far as snapshots and flyers are concerned. Are they still AV13, with super-rage and rampage?

Does the Dreadclaw (the little one) have Inertial Guidance Systems? I know in the Horus Heresy rules, it does not, which makes it seem rather risky to use.

Could you also clarify the renegade demagogue mechanics? Are they like regimental advisors that you add to command squads?

[daboarder]

can I also be a pain and ask a few questions about the Talon.

Is it possible to have a bit more info on how the bombs work? Because I see two potential issues, either the bombs are bombs weapon type, in which case the talon can only drop 1 a turn (limiting it to a maximum of 6 bombs in a 7 turn game) when it has 8 thats a bit silly. Does it have a way of dropping more than 1 a turn?
OR
If the bombs aren't weapon type "bomb" does it have its own unique rules for dropping them, because if they aren't then they would be a normal weapon type but no range.....which is really really weird.

edit: Also how do the "snap shot" bombs work?

[Mr Mystery]

All are 'Bomb', but I'm not seeing anything which allows them to drop more than one. My guess is a copy/paste issue from it's previous incarnations.

- - - Updated - - -

From a post I'm trying to make on B&C - under an old pseudonym of Mad Doc Grotsnik.

The Renegade Psykers actually come with their own powers. You buy the coven a single HQ slot, with 1-5. You then split them off into units. Have the Character rule, not IC.


Powers of the Witch

A Rogue Psyker must randomly select one of the following psychic powers and may not select powers from an of the tables presented in the Warhammer 40,000 rulbook. Use the table below to determine which powers each Rogue Psyker in the coven has access to.

D6 result

1-2 Creeping Terror, WC 1
12" Malediction, targets a single unit. Target unit reduces it's Initiative value to 1 (not by 1, to 1, emphasis mine), and may only fire snap shots until the end of that unit's next turn. No effect on Fearless units. ATSKNF or Stubborn get a Ld test to resist.

3-4 Warp Flux, WC1
Wtichfire. 12", S7, AP-, Assault 1, Blast, Haywire

5-6 Unnatural Vigour, WC1
Blessing, targets one friendly unit within 12" of the Rogue Psyker. Affected unit gains Fleet and Crusader for it's duration.

The Daemon Unbound

If a model with this special rule takes a wound from Perils of the Warp, it is immediately replaced by a Possessed model and removed from play. The Possessed enters play with it's full wounds value regardless of how many wound the Rogue Psyker had remaining

Possessed stats?

WS5, BS1, S5, T3, W2, I4, A3, Ld 10. Gains FnP 4+ and Rending.

[daboarder]

hmm seems really really wierd.....I mean how do you snapshot a "bomb".....dont they auto-hit?

Cheers mystery.

Guess Im going to have to facebook or email FW, at least they provide answers with reasonable consitency

[Mr Mystery]

Land Raider Proteus is what it is, but the Exploratory Augur Web is replaced by a fairly pricey upgrade called 'Ark of Unnameable Horror'.

And though I said it's pricey, it's potentially completely bloody awesome in every way. Anyone attempting to shoot at the Land Raider Proteus must first take a Pinning Test. If the test is passed, nothing happens. If the test is failed? You don't get to shoot, and you go to ground immediately. Doesn't apply to units firing without LoS (such as Barrage weapons), Fearless units, or any model without a Ld.

[daboarder]

does the fire raptor still have the rule that lets it target different units with its guns?

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Wording is that as long as it's eligible to fire a weapon in the Shooting Phase, each waist mounted turret may fire at a target of it's own and it's weapons do not count towards the number of weapons the gunship may fire each turn.

Autocannon and Heavy Bolters can be upgraded to Rending, but it's cheaper for Autocannon.

[daboarder]

brilliant

[Mr Mystery]

It's also dead cheap...

Kitted out with Autocannon, and Malefic Ammo? A piffling 245 points.

Oh, and it has Strafing Run. And comes with Extra Armour for free.

[daboarder]

honestly. I just want the Talon to be workable, I have an awesome conversion idea form a drake that I want to do.


edit: But the infernus dread is a dream come true for me

[Mr Mystery]

Ferrum Infernus also comes with options for all the DCW variants in the Chaos Book. For both arms.

Scourge and Hammer could be a laugh for challenges!

[CrownAxe]

Anything about the plague hulk? what weapons does it have?

[Mr Mystery]

Unchanged as far as I can see. Big sword is an upgrade to the Claw, but only AP3, so not entirely sure why you'd want that, other than aesthetics!

[Zeratil]

The special edition is up on FW now btw. Mystery, can the sonic dread replace its chainfist with anything (such as a missile launcher?) My friend has one modelled with Blastmaster and ML and want's to know if that's still legal.

Also what is the profile on the cyclotrathe conversion beamer from the rapier?


Edit: Thanks Mystery! Enjoy your evening and thanks again for all the info :)

[Mr Mystery]

The special edition is up on FW now btw. Mystery, can the sonic dread replace its chainfist with anything (such as a missile launcher?) My friend has one modelled with Blastmaster and ML and want's to know if that's still legal.

Also what is the profile on the cyclotrathe conversion beamer from the rapier?

Yep on the Sonic.

Others will have to wait until tomorrow - at work just now, and Walking Dead tonight (TV show. Not me. I'm a Mystery, not a Zombie)

Of course, this is the point where I reveal I've actually been making all this stuff up. Except....

1. Totally not that creative
2. Lies suck
3. If I had, there would be nowhere to hide, and I'd likely be flayed alive!

[mountaincycle661]

Mystery, thanks so much for shedding light on all this stuff!

Can you talk about the BIG greater demons? the demon lords? Between my friend and I, we have all four of them. You could say we have a vested interest in what their rules are....

In particular, I reeeeally want to know what they've done with the Big Thunder Chicken. His rules have pretty much been sucky / lackluster for 3 renditions now and Im hoping they finally did it right this time...

...*sigh* hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. I wont hold it against you if you disappoint me, Mystery.

[Mr Mystery]

Not properly look at them yet.

Can tell you the Nurgle guy has horrendous wind. Anyone within 6" that isn't Nurglesque or Daemon must pass a T test every turn, or suffer a wound with no saves allowed. GARGANTUAN GUFFERS AHOY!

[mountaincycle661]

Thanks for looking into this, dude. no rush, digest that new book and fill us all in whenever you get a chance!


Also, if its not too much to ask, what are the price points on the decimators like? From what youve told us thus far, they got way squishier (only AV12 on the front now?! Dang it! They used to be AV13!). If they did get way squishier, im hoping for a significant price drop...

[Mr Mystery]

Pretty sure they're AV13 - might have been a typo on my behalf (especially if posting from my phone).

Just checked ebay - they're going for £100 a chuck, and I can see three sold at that price. Man, I feel sorry for those who splashed out. And perhaps a little guilty due to the froth I've whipped up! But hey ho, is only money.

Oh, Big Daemons? Retain the 3+ Invulnerable, that much I can confirm. Big Bird - from memory, has a really, really horrible Apocalyptic Barrage attack, with lots of shots (think it was D6+3, but don't quote me on that just yet).

Also contains rules for the two FW Daemon Princes.

[Mr Mystery]

And just to reiterate chatter across the webs about the Renegade list - it really is amazingly flexible.

Can do Beastman, or Pirates, Renegade Guard, hacked off citizens - all up to you!

[mountaincycle661]

Pretty sure they're AV13 - might have been a typo on my behalf (especially if posting from my phone).

Just checked ebay - they're going for £100 a chuck, and I can see three sold at that price. Man, I feel sorry for those who splashed out. And perhaps a little guilty due to the froth I've whipped up! But hey ho, is only money.

Oh, Big Daemons? Retain the 3+ Invulnerable, that much I can confirm. Big Bird - from memory, has a really, really horrible Apocalyptic Barrage attack, with lots of shots (think it was D6+3, but don't quote me on that just yet).

Also contains rules for the two FW Daemon Princes.

Good to hear they kept their +3 invos...

For me, the big cliffhanger is what they're doing with my precious decimators...

Ive got three of these guys and im terrified that they'll do something stupid with them. Can you tell me: the cost of a decimator with two seige claws and no dedications or upgrades....greater than or less than 205pts? How about butcher cannons? Greater than, less than or equal to 20pts?

[Ang56]

This sounds sounds kind of amazing, like everything I wanted it to be.

One thing tho, wyrdvanes weren't on your renegade unit list wondering if there's any brotherhood of psykers unit that has access to malefic powers, the coven sounds like primaris.

Not that it's good but i converted 3 wyrdvane units and I like using them to summon demons, mostly cause they suck at it and tend to just perils themselves to death by mid game but it's fun and they do generate a few demon units. I think it's fits in my chaos guard well.

-------

nevermind, just saw that the advisor that lets coven units be taken as elites. so, awesome for me not having wasted time and effort on conversions.

[Mr Mystery]

This sounds sounds kind of amazing, like everything I wanted it to be.

One thing tho, wyrdvanes weren't on your renegade unit list wondering if there's any brotherhood of psykers unit that has access to malefic powers, the coven sounds like primaris.

Not that it's good but i converted 3 wyrdvane units and I like using them to summon demons, mostly cause they suck at it and tend to just perils themselves to death by mid game but it's fun and they do generate a few demon units. I think it's fits in my chaos guard well.

Rogue Psyker Covens cover that. No access to the main powers, instead a D3 table of their own. Oh, and if they suffer a wound to Perils, they go possessed :p

[Venomlust]

Sounds like a reward for playing aggressively. Throw enough dice to pop off a good power and then eat some faces.

[Venomlust]

I have another one: Are there still random Leadership values? Not sure if this one was answered yet, sorry.

[Torquato]

I have another one: Are there still random Leadership values? Not sure if this one was answered yet, sorry.

yes. it is called the Uncertain Worth rule. D6+4.



Question> what are the weapon loadouts for infantry choices? I am interested in sniper rifles, and wether troop choices can take heavy weapon teams?

[Venomlust]

yes. it is called the Uncertain Worth rule. D6+4.

Cool, thanks. Sounds like a wacky time, but really, their Ld isn't that important. Hopefully their wholesale slaughter accomplishes the goals of my warlord. I was reading about the "recent renegade" option that includes Alpha Legion in the older rules, disguised as loyalists trying to turn the renegades away from the Imperium. That's super cool!

[Ishibei]

Thanks for this Mr M

Can you let us know what is field-able by a daemon army is it just the old demon engines, gargantuan's and Decimator like before? Or is there shiny new toys

[Big_jon]

Contemptor Dread - is pretty filth.

WS5, BS4, S7, 13/12/10, IdA3 HP3

Pretty standard loadout to start, but has Fleet (really), Adamantium Will (really) and Hellfire Reactor - 4+ Inv against Glancing, 6+ Inv against Penetrating. In close combat, and model with the Psyker special rule takes an automatic S2 AP2 hit at Initiative 10 step (oh HAI GREY KNIGHTS!). Downside? +D3 to asplosion radius and hits from that have Soul Blaze.

But....the upgrades...LAWKSAMERCY!

Usual toys for Contemptors (see Forgeworld website) along with? Butcher Cannon, and any CombiBolter can be upgraded to Heavy Flamer, Plasma Blaster, Meltagun, or a Soul Burner (24", S4, AP4, Blast, Rending). Can also have a carapace mounted Havoc Launcher.

Dedication's what ya need, sang Roy Castle at the start of Record Breakers when I was a nipper, and it's good advice for a Contemptor...

Khorne's your daddy? Rage and Rampage for you.
Nurgle's your Grandpa? It Will Not Die
Slaanesh your biatch? Assault and Defensive Grenades counts as
Tzeentch your bird? Re-roll Inv saves of 1, and all Heavy Flamers get Soul Blaze.

I like Khorne and Nurgle the best!

Did they make butcher cannons any better? Did the points cost go down in general?

Any word on if the Spartan has changed?

Do any of these crazy things I hear about ammo types on reapers and stuff apply to CSM?

[Mr Mystery]

Sadly I don't have reference material to say what has changed. Only got IA13

- - - Updated - - -


yes. it is called the Uncertain Worth rule. D6+4.



Question> what are the weapon loadouts for infantry choices? I am interested in sniper rifles, and wether troop choices can take heavy weapon teams?

In regard to Uncertain Worth, Ld is determined at the point of the unit's first test. Potentially game breaking if anyone is wanting to field in a competitive setting, but for scenario/campaign type play, just a bit of extra book keeping.

No option for Sniper Rifles so far as I can see for Renegade Infantry, but for every ten models, two can form a single weapons team.

Also had questions about the Blood Slaughterers - WS5, BS1, S6, 13/12/10, I4, A3, HP3.

Two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons (doesn't say if bonus attack in profile). Must also close with the closest visible enemy unit every turn, but does not need to run.

+D3 attacks on the charge instead of +1.

Harpoon is a flat 4+ to hit. Doesn't mention Flyers and that.

[daboarder]

Does the spartan still lack POTMS with no alternative rule?

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed so. But 55 points more than a Landraider....

[daboarder]

that would make it only 30-40 pts cheaper and it still can't effectively use its weaposn making it a transport box....I'll stick with the raider

[Venomlust]

that would make it only 30-40 pts cheaper and it still can't effectively use its weaposn making it a transport box....I'll stick with the raider

I've really been trying to come up with the ideal unit to field in a Spartan, to justify the potential purchase. I haven't been able to come up with anything great. Plenty of fluffy things (Kharn + 20 Berzerkers is my choice), but that's a crap ton of points into one unit and their transport.

[daboarder]

I've really been trying to come up with the ideal unit to field in a Spartan, to justify the potential purchase. I haven't been able to come up with anything great. Plenty of fluffy things (Kharn + 20 Berzerkers is my choice), but that's a crap ton of points into one unit and their transport.

About the only thing worth spending the points on is that or say a big terminator unit (likely slaaneshi with IoE) and a beffy character or two.

[Venomlust]

About the only thing worth spending the points on is that or say a big terminator unit (likely slaaneshi with IoE) and a beffy character or two.

Yeah, maybe take lightning claws if Slaaneshi for choppy fun.

[daboarder]

Personally I love lances on Slaaneshi or Khorne Terminators,

The Spartan pretty much ensures you get the charge and S5, Ap3 I5 attacks are nothing to sneeze at, particularly when the unit has FNP. (S6 Ap3 I4 +1A for Khorne)

Pretty rough to be on the wrong end of that

[Arlekin]

Sadly I don't have reference material to say what has changed. Only got IA13

- - - Updated - - -



In regard to Uncertain Worth, Ld is determined at the point of the unit's first test. Potentially game breaking if anyone is wanting to field in a competitive setting, but for scenario/campaign type play, just a bit of extra book keeping.

No option for Sniper Rifles so far as I can see for Renegade Infantry, but for every ten models, two can form a single weapons team.

Also had questions about the Blood Slaughterers - WS5, BS1, S6, 13/12/10, I4, A3, HP3.

Two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons (doesn't say if bonus attack in profile). Must also close with the closest visible enemy unit every turn, but does not need to run.

+D3 attacks on the charge instead of +1.

Harpoon is a flat 4+ to hit. Doesn't mention Flyers and that.
Thank,s.
What about Rampage rule?

[DarkLink]

Spartans are everything Land Raiders wish they could be.


So, how do Dreadclaw Drop Pods work? I mean, I know they're a drop pod that can fly away again, but what's the ballpark point cost relative to normal drop pods, what guns can they take, etc? Not that I'm not getting the book anyways, but Forgeworld is slow to ship to the USA.

[Big_jon]

Thanks for all this. A couple more questions.

Specifics on the Great Brass Scorpion?

Are these legacies of ruin available to any vehicle? Are they available to CSM or limited to these renegades?

Is the Contemptor less than 175pts?

Is the infernus dread the same stats as a regular dread base?

[Venomlust]

Spartans are everything Land Raiders wish they could be.


So, how do Dreadclaw Drop Pods work? I mean, I know they're a drop pod that can fly away again, but what's the ballpark point cost relative to normal drop pods, what guns can they take, etc? Not that I'm not getting the book anyways, but Forgeworld is slow to ship to the USA.

"About" 10 Meltaguns per pod.

[McGibs]

Is that pointcost confirmed from IA13, or just speculation based on the Heresy rules (which normally have inflated point costs). The old dreadclaw was 6.5 meltaguns, and going up to 10 for an AV12 flyer with no real guns seems like a lot.

[Venomlust]

Is that pointcost confirmed from IA13, or just speculation based on the Heresy rules (which normally have inflated point costs). The old dreadclaw was 6.5 meltaguns, and going up to 10 for an AV12 flyer with no real guns seems like a lot.

The info comes from a different player from OP who bought the book. Not having seen the book myself I can't guarantee it, but I see no reason the guy would make it up.

From everything I've read here and elsewhere, the Dreadclaw just isn't the SM drop pod equivalent most of us want it to be. We can only realistically alpha strike one squad, (Chosen seem like a good choice) unless you fork out 30 meltas just so you can have a second alpha striking unit. Don't think I won't buy 3, either :D. But those points (and dollars) would probably be better spent elsewhere.

However, there is the attack capability. One pod alone isn't going to do much. But drop 3 near some weiner troops and then skim all over them all game long. Or use its ability to drop to strategically set a unit up to jump across the table using skimmer rules and grab an objective. With a unit of CSM it will be ob.sec., and a unit marked with Khorne can pop out and flame/melta/charge/doubletap+overwatch. It will take 2 turns to move and unload, but how many other transports do we have that can jump across the table and not be at risk for crashing and burning?

Is CSM the new flavor and tourney champ? Maybe (probably not), but 7th rules and this IA13 have given us a **** load more options.

[DarkLink]

I heard mention of a flamer on it.

[Mr Mystery]

I heard mention of a flamer on it.

Sort of. It has the option of burninating stuff on landing and when flying.

And yep. If Meltaguns are shorthand for 15 points, they're just shy of 7.

[Mr Mystery]

Thanks for all this. A couple more questions.

Specifics on the Great Brass Scorpion?

Are these legacies of ruin available to any vehicle? Are they available to CSM or limited to these renegades?

Is the Contemptor less than 175pts?

Is the infernus dread the same stats as a regular dread base?

WS3, BS3, S10, 14/13/10, I3, A6, HP9. Scorpion Cannon (many dakkas), Soulburner Cannon (cover ignoring demolisher) and two Hellmaw Cannon (same burninators as those Landraiders with burninators). 3D6 charge reach, any psyker trying a power on it suffers an auto Perils, whether power works or not, +2 Modifier on Catastrophic Damage, and does D3+2 Stomps.

Yes, any vehicle. One vehicle per 1,000 points can have one or more (it's not terribly clear if it means one per 1,000, and same vehicle can hog them, or if just one vehicle per 1,000 can be upgraded with as many as it wants).

No. Does have Fleet and Adamantium Will though.

No, it's betterer.

[bodhimind]

Spartans are everything Land Raiders wish they could be.


So, how do Dreadclaw Drop Pods work? I mean, I know they're a drop pod that can fly away again, but what's the ballpark point cost relative to normal drop pods, what guns can they take, etc? Not that I'm not getting the book anyways, but Forgeworld is slow to ship to the USA.

It's identical to HH3

So it's an AV12 HP3 flyer, deepstrikes into hover mode. The weapon has 2 attacks, when it deep strikes, it hits every enemy model within D3+3" with S6 AP5. Additionally, it can be used in the movement phase when hovering causing D6 S5 Ap5 hits to every enemy unit it moves over (each time you use it this way, roll a D6, on a 1 you suffer a pen).

The big thing is that it doesn't need to land even remotely close to where you need it since it can flat out 18" after landing, then next turn you can move 6" more and disembark 6", so as long as you're within 30" of where you want to be, you're fine. Since you don't need to (and frequently wont) disembark immediately when you land, it also protects whatever unit is inside from enemy shooting, and if it gets killed, the guys inside are fine since you're in hover mode.

Definitely not as spammable, but potentially useful.

[daboarder]

Any chance we could get a rundown of the Big Bad Four Daemons?
pretty please

[Mr Mystery]

Will endeavour to remember tonight.

I know they retain their 3+ Invulnerable. And the Slaaneshi one gains wound from it's sword.

[Mr Mystery]

Right then.....

Mamon, Daemon Prince of Nurgle.

10 points less than a Land Raider.WS7, BS5, S6, T7, W5, I4, A4, Ld9, Sv 5+.

Daemon of Nurgle, Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, FnP 5+, Poisoned 2+. With a Poison 2+ AP3 Flamer.

Big Fat Nurgle Blob.

Toughest thing in the game at T9, 6 Wounds, 3+ Invulnerable, and FnP 4+ - basically precious little short of a jammy Strength D shot is going to drop this puppy! Hellstorm Heavy Flamer equivalent, +D3 attacks on the charge, but can only wal 6" on account of being a bigfattyboomboom.

Dead Killy Khorne Dave

Flying Gargantuan with T8, W8, 2+ save and a 3+ Invulnerable. Must charge if he possibly can. Do I not want to face that!

Uraka 'The Warfiend', Daemon Prince of Khorne

WS7, BS5, S7, T5, W4, I6, A5, Ld9 3+Sv

Fleshbane Ap2 CCW that does Instant Death on a 6 to wound. 20 points cheaper than his Nurgle compadre.

Kinky Slaaneshi Giant Daemon Wench

Probably my favourite. Pretty cheap as these things go. T7, W6, I10, 3+ Inv.

CCW is user's S (so 7 then!), AP1, always does Instant Death, and any combat where it causes a wound, roll a D6 at the end of the sub-phase, and on a 2+ you get a wound back. This can raise it's wounds to 10! But.....there's MOAR! 36", S6, AP3, Assault D6 Pinning shootydeathkill. Angel of Despair - +D3 attacks when charging, and any non-Fearless unit in TH must pass a Ld test or be unable to strike blows that turn. Roll for entire unit once, IC roll separately.

And now the one I've been asked most about....

THE VICIOUS CHICKEN OF BRISTOL

Flying Gargantuan, WS9, BS6, S8, T8, W9, I9, A5, Ld10, 3+ Inv

Riftbringer, Soul Eater, Wind of Chaos Daemonic Rewards.

Lvl 4 Psyker

Chosen of Tzeentch - four psychic powers, must roll for two from the Discipline of Change in Daemons book, ignoring the usual maximum for generating powers from his patron's discipline. Other powers may be generated from any one discipline chosen from Pyromancy, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Divination or Biomacy. He may not use Daemonology at all (one assumes, because REASONS).

Mantle of Twisted Fates - If he successfully nullifies an enemy psychic power, on a 4+, it's reflected back on it's caster. Count as shooting attacks, hit their target automatically, and in the case of Blast Markers, centred on the originator with no scatter. Where both have to take a test (so say, Mind War), Vicious Chicken of Bristol counts as being the user/caster....

Dark Jealousy - Chicken is a bit of a knob. If there's another Greater Daemon (including Lords of Change), Daemon Prince or Daemon Lord is within 18", Chicken has to direct all his ranged attacks against them. Friend and foe......

Staff of Cataclysm - Must remain stationary in the movement phase, cannot be used via other Rewards, and cannot use in HTH. It's a shooting attack - Unlimited Range, S-, AP3, Apocalyptic Barrage 6+D3, Haywire, Poison 3+. Every time it's used, take a Ld test. If you fail, your opponent chooses the target. If it entirely wipes out an enemy infantry unit, place a Large Blast template centred where the Apocalyptic Barrage template was centred, and place a new unit of Pink Horrors equal to the number of models from entirely destroyed units removed as casualties under the marker. The new unit acts precisely as if it had Deep Striked onto the board, but may not fire in this turn. You must have the correct models, and the unit gives no VPs or KPs, nor can this be used to bolster an existing unit of Pinkies.

[daboarder]

cheers mystery

[Nid Bits]

Specifically says no daemonolgy, malefic in particular? If not then maybe straight out cut and paste from IA Apocalypse and if so then follows the fluff about not voluntarily summoning other Gd especially through possession lol

[Torquato]

From everything I've read here and elsewhere, the Dreadclaw just isn't the SM drop pod equivalent most of us want it to be.

Clarifying Dreadclaw:

Vehicle (hover, flyer).

Frag assauolt launchers.

Special rules: assault vehicle, deep strike, srop pod assault, heat blast, daemonic possession.

Capacity: 10 models or 1 sonic dreadnaught, 1 ferrum infernus dreadnaught, chaos contemptor dreadnaught or helbrute.

Access point: one access point beneath the hull. In practice, passengers can disembark at ground level within 2" of the hull.

Can be taken as a dedicated transport for CSM and Chosen, Sonic dreadnaught, chaos contemptor dreadnaught, ferrum infernus dreadnaught and helbrute + must deploy within the dreadclaw. (shortened, but basically this is it)


Drop pod rules are the same, BUT it is not immobile once it arrives, once it landed it is treated as in hover mode and starts off as in hover mode.

heat blast in skimmer mode/arriving via deep strike: units may not embark/disembark. Immediately after deep striking measure a radius of 3+D3 horizontally outward from MAIN HULL (landing struts do not count). Enemies inside the radius suffer S6 Ap 5 attack which si counted as a flamer attack, vehicles are hit in their weakest armour value.

heat blast fire sweep: every unit the Dreadclaw moves over suffers D6 S5 Ap5 flamer hits, vehicles are hit in their weakest armour value. Wounds are distributed by the player suffering the hits as he wishes. Roll D6 every time this attack is inflicted, on a 1 the drop pod suffers a penetrating hit.

[daboarder]

wait, so are they STILL specifically bared from disembarking the turn they deepstrike?

[Mr Mystery]

Specifically says no daemonolgy, malefic in particular? If not then maybe straight out cut and paste from IA Apocalypse and if so then follows the fluff about not voluntarily summoning other Gd especially through possession lol


Specifically states no Daemonology for the Vicious Chicken of Bristiol.

[Venomlust]

wait, so are they STILL specifically bared from disembarking the turn they deepstrike?

I pray to the gods that it only means you can't buy the Dreadclaw for a unit, then deploy that unit outside of the transport when the game starts.

Please let us have an alpha strike, overpriced as it is.

[daboarder]

I was refering to the heat blast attack

[Venomlust]

I was refering to the heat blast attack


Oh, balls. Damnit! The flame attack is easily not worth the loss of shooting.

[Mr Mystery]

I was refering to the heat blast attack

Ah, that's clearly listed as an optional attack, even on Deep Strike. No need to ever burninate if you don't wants to, so 0% chance of accidentially roasting it's riders.

[daboarder]

good to hear

[Mr Mystery]

Yarp.

I was a little confused about those on B&C saying stuff couldn't disembark. I had assumed it was a core rule I'm not familiar with!

[Venomlust]

Excellent!

[Mr Mystery]

And yes, Kharybdis is identical - no need to roast if you don't wanna.

They otherwise follow the same rules as regular Drop Pods - if it's a DT, must be transporting it's unit etc.

Cannot remember if they're now available as separate FA slots. Will check when I'm home (saturday shift!)

[Venomlust]

And yes, Kharybdis is identical - no need to roast if you don't wanna.

They otherwise follow the same rules as regular Drop Pods - if it's a DT, must be transporting it's unit etc.

Cannot remember if they're now available as separate FA slots. Will check when I'm home (saturday shift!)

I imagine they're still way too expensive to be worthwhile. Still AV12?

[Lord Krungharr]

I think getting some hardcore assault unit across the table and only scattering like a Drop Pod on Turn 1 is pretty darn awesome. That would let Abaddon or Typhus or Kharn charge Turn 2 into deep territory, whereas usually they'd have to wait until Turn 3 to do that, or take a Land Raider and meet enemies in the middle of the table (usually). For the price of that 1 Land Raider you can get what, like 3 Dreadclaws and 2 come in Turn 1? That's pretty good I think! Heck, I'd even put Obliterators in that, they do better damage closer up, and join a Sorcerer with them for kicks.

[darth_business]

That's the thing a spartan or kharybdis for the points is really good considering you could put a full 10 man squad of terminators or a combination with a lord and be in their base killing their dudes turn 2. Think about it for the cost of 3 meltas more than a land raider in the case of the claw you get the transport capacity of two land raiders. That's 46 melta guns for the price of 26 and when you cut the cost of your terminators from that you have completely saved the cost of the 5 aditional terminators who would not normally been able to catch a ride otherwise. Nothing we have will do better in CC for the points so I think it's great. And honestly for 4 meltas more you can really bring the heat with a spartan upgraded to ignore melta. What ever the case the point is you are getting the functionality of a second landraider for just abut free. The key here is that you look at what it is facilitating (10 terminators in assault turn 2) and see that for the cost you can't do better out of anyone's codex. Also pro tip for the termies multiple assault with them so you don't kill the hell out of everything in your turn. Kill them in their turn and move back into assault in your next turn :)

[Venomlust]

Slap a Mark of Khorne on them and toss Cypher with 'em for Hit and Run :D. I lack the skill and luck, but I wonder how crazy that would be.

[daboarder]

The Kharybdis aso puts out some descent firepower while its at it, I am really going to try subbing one into my list and see how it goes in place of my defiler/sorc

[Dyemor]

Thanks for all the info so far.

Can you give some more information on the Sonic Dreadnaught?

Who can take it? Do you need to have Noise Marines units (similar to Blood Slaughterer) to take one in a CSM list? What slot does it take up? Roughly how many melta's :)

[Venomlust]

I'm a bit wary of AV 12 for such a huge investment, though.

[daboarder]

Thanks for all the info so far.

Can you give some more information on the Sonic Dreadnaught?

Who can take it? Do you need to have Noise Marines units (similar to Blood Slaughterer) to take one in a CSM list? What slot does it take up? Roughly how many melta's :)

Appears to be just an elite choice, no noise required....its pricey though

its more like a slaanesh dedicated infernus dread than a brute

[Venomlust]

Is it true that the Giant Chaos Spawn is now a Daemons Heavy Support instead of a CSM Elites?

[daboarder]

Is it true that the Giant Chaos Spawn is now a Daemons Heavy Support instead of a CSM Elites?

Yes, and the spined beast is now elites for both.

Generally considered to be a typo since they are the copy n pasted profiles from Apoc 2013 but on opposite pages....so typical GW Frak up

[Venomlust]

Yes, and the spined beast is now elites for both.

Generally considered to be a typo since they are the copy n pasted profiles from Apoc 2013 but on opposite pages....so typical GW Frak up

:rolleyes: At least if it's a typo FW will fix it within the next year? Let's hope?

[daboarder]

:rolleyes: At least if it's a typo FW will fix it within the next year? Let's hope?

Unlikely, FW is even worse with typos that GW, See the Wraith cannon/D-cannon Frak up on the wraithseer

[Defenestratus]

Unlikely, FW is even worse with typos that GW, See the Wraith cannon/D-cannon Frak up on the wraithseer

Thankfully that one is so egregious that there's not a single person on the planet that will hold you to using the Wraithcannon rules.

At least not in my experience.

[Strigis]

Can you clarify the Infernal Relic USR please? Mainly the portion about a chaos sorcerer with Malefic Daemonlogy. Can someone take any sorcerer (ex. Ahriman) and burn one of his spells on Malefic, or is it specifically only "Sorcerers" from the CSM HQ list.

I ask because post FAQ, all sorcerers may take powers from Malefic and I'm not keen on adding in Failbaddon or a Warpsmith to my Thousand Sons.

[Mr Mystery]

Will try to remember once I'm home - but if memory serves, that's one I copied out verbatim earlier in the thread.

[Strigis]

Will try to remember once I'm home - but if memory serves, that's one I copied out verbatim earlier in the thread.

It says you just need a sorcerer with Malefic; so by that line of thought I could in fact have Ahriman as my HQ, grab one of his 4 powers from Malefic and scoot my way into a pair of Sicaran's or relic preds with plasma destroyers (that are now 5 points cheaper than in IA Apoc)

Thanks Mr. Mystery!

[Boscolamb]

Whatever happened to rules for the Apostate Preachers of Nurgle? FW still sells the models, but they no longer put them in their codex?!

[Renegade]

Thoughts on how viable a renegade centric mob list would be?

Told there was something to make the army infiltrate, can this be confirmed?

Told there was a Leman Russ variant in the FA slot, can this be confirmed?

[Mr Mystery]

Have good trawl through the thread duder. Most info is in there somewhere, even if it's all higgledy piggledy!