FW Typhon cannon-24" range if moved...but Super-Heavies count as Stationary

[JMichael]

From ForgeWorld Imperial Armour 2 2nd edition. The Space Marine Super-Heavy tank, Typhon.
It's Dreadhammer cannon has a range of 24"/48".
It specifically says that it has two ranges depending on whether it moved or not.
If it moved in the preceding Movement phase then 24". If it did not move, then 48"
This rule was the same in the IA Apocalypse 2013 book..

Rulebook p94 (and also the Apocalypse book) states that when shooting, a Super-Heavy vehicle is always treated as if it was stationary even if it did actually move.

I think that since the Dreadhammer has a specific rule, that would trump the rulebook rule.

You thoughts?
Anyone disagree?

[daboarder]

yeah the idea is faitrly obvious for how its meant to work

[JMichael]

I agree that it is pretty clear how the rule is intended. But, just looking at RAW.
I have a big game coming up and I want to be clear on this.

The rule in the rulebook that allows specific rules to trump rulebook is on p13 'Basic vs Advanced'.
It pretty much specifies that Codex or Army List Entry rules take precedence.
I wish it said something like 'GW publications' instead to cover ForgeWorld.
None of the GW, Forgeworld, NOVA open, or BAO FAQs address this rule either.

I tend to look at release dates and consider the newer rule to apply (months are best guess based on net 'Book has been released' articles. But again that is not necessarily RAW.
July 2013 - Apocalypse 6th edition (this is where the Super-Heavies count as stationary when shooting rule first.
Aug 2013 - FW Apocalypse (Has the Typhon Tank with the Dreadhammer weapon 24"/48")
Nov 2013 - FW Imperial Armour Two, 2nd Edition. This has the Typhon and wording for the Dreadhammer cannon is unchanged from the FW APoc book.
May 2014 - 7th Edition rulebook.

- - - Updated - - -

So playing Devil's Advocate here and arguing the opposite point.

Rule book p94, Super Heavy Vehicles - Shooting: When making a shooting attach it is always treated as if it had remained stationary in the Movement Phase.
The Dreadhammer weapon says: If it moved in the preceding Movement phase then range is 24". If it did not move, then range is 48".

If the Rulebook rule makes the Typhon's Unit Type of Super-Heavy Vehicle always be treated as Stationary, then the weapon's range should be 48".

[CoffeeGrunt]

The Macharius Vulcan/Stormlord has a similar situation in this regard. If they move they may only fire the VMB once, if they don't, it's twice. This RAW interpretation never occurred to me, and while I agree with it in a RAW sense, I do not feel it's the intention of the rules.

[JMichael]

The Macharius Vulcan/Stormlord has a similar situation in this regard. If they move they may only fire the VMB once, if they don't, it's twice. This RAW interpretation never occurred to me, and while I agree with it in a RAW sense, I do not feel it's the intention of the rules.

That is interesting.
The Stormlord is actually IN the GW Apocalypse book.
That book has the 'Super Heavy vehicles count as stationary' rule. But the vehicle has the 'All Power to Weapons' that allow it to fire the VMB twice if it didn't move.
Only difference is the Stormlord itself has that rule listed as a 'Special Rule', where as for the Typhon the rule is just with the weapon.

[Mr Mystery]

Counting as stationary, and having actually been stationary strike me as two different things. There's no rule I'm aware of for me to back this up though!

So in this instance....

Typhon moves, it can fire a number of weapons equal to a tank that remained stationary. But, for the purposes of it's dakkacannon, it gets the shorter range, because it did move.

In short, the weapon rule itself trumps the Super Heavy rule.

Hope that makes sense :)

[daboarder]

Counting as stationary, and having actually been stationary strike me as two different things. There's no rule I'm aware of for me to back this up though!


Start of the book, For all intents and purposes "counts as" = "is"

[JMichael]

Start of the book, For all intents and purposes "counts as" = "is"

page #?

[Mr Mystery]

And book! (I assume rulebook)

[JMichael]

I wrote Forgeworld with the question and received a prompt reply!
They said that the specific rule over rides the rulebook general rule and that the Dreadhammer weapon range is 24" if the Typhon moved.

[Mr Mystery]

IA13, page 63

The Dreadhammer siege cannon has two ranges depending on whether the vehicle has moves or remained stationary.

Seems to clear this question up.

[hisdudeness]

And Stationary only effects number of weapons the super-heavy can fire and nothing else.

[DarkLink]

Sounds pretty explicit to me. Forgeworld is pretty notorious for not knowing the rules to their own game, though.

[daboarder]

page #?

Same pages that explain dice stats etc