3000 Dark Elves. New, please help

[WarHammerman]

Let me begin by saying: I don't (yet) play WHFB

I have been given some education on the game, and have played a bit but without an army of my own.


So, here is an idea I'd like to run past everyone.
Please, let me know what you think.
Say whatever you like, but please know I'm new and don't fully understand what I'm doing. So saying "That's stupid" isn't helpful. Following that up with "But here is how you can fix it." helps a lot.



Here is the list I've tooled around with:
Themes: Fast, Ranged combat
+ Magical Oomph

3000 points

Lord: (320)
Supreme Sorceress (general)
Level 4 upgrade
Sword of Anti-Heroes
Dispel Scroll
Dawnstone
Dark Steed
Lore of Darkness

Hero: (745)
Death Hag
Battle Standard Bearer (Wailing Banner)
Gift: Cry of War
Mounted on Cauldron of Blood
(3 Cauldrons)
- fast, magical, scythed wheels, causes fear and terror =D

Core (995)
(20) Dark Riders, full command, repeater crossbows & Shields

(20) Darkshards, full command, shields & magic banner (banner of Eternal Flame)

(20) Corsairs, full command, repeater handbows & magic banner (Banner of Swiftness)

Special (430)
(10) Harpies

(4) Reaper Bolt Throwers (thunderfire cannons)

Rare (510)
(20) Doomfire Warlocks, W/ Master
Soulblight

[WarHammerman]

It has been pointed out to me that I've made a major error - and i can only bring 1 cauldron of blood.

Here is the revised list!


Lord: (320)
Supreme Sorceress (general)
Level 4 upgrade
Sword of Anti-Heroes
Dispel Scroll
Dawnstone
Dark Steed
Lore of Dark Magic.

Hero: (745)
Death Hag
Battle Standard Bearer (War Banner)
Gift: Cry of War
+ Cauldron of Blood

Core (1400)
(20) Dark Riders, full command, repeater crossbows & Shields

(20) Darkshards, full command, shields & magic banner (banner of Eternal Flame)

(20) Corsairs, full command, repeater handbows & magic banner (Banner of Swiftness)

(30) Witch Elves, full command & magic banner (Razor Standard)

Special (430)
(10) Harpies

(4) Reaper Bolt Throwers

Rare (510)
(20) Doomfire Warlocks, W/ Master
Soulblight

[Katharon]

Looks good to me. I'd probably have taken one or two more magic users, but then that's just me.

[WarHammerman]

Looks good to me. I'd probably have taken one or two more magic users, but then that's just me.

How about I split the Warlocks into 2 squads of 10?


Here is the updated list, lemmie know YAAY or NUU!

Supreme Sorceress
General, Level 4 (Lore of Death)
Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dispel Scroll, Dawnstone, Dark Steed

10 Dark Riders
Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

10 Dark Riders
Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

10 Dark Riders
Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

20 Corsairs
Full Command, Repeater Handbows + Banner of Swiftness

10 Doomfire Warlocks
Master, Soulblight

10 Doomfire Warlocks
Master, Soulblight

10 Harpies

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers

30 Witch Elves
Full Command + Razor Standard

Death Hag
BSB, Cry of War, Rampager's Standard
Cauldron of Blood

[Learn2Eel]

How about I split the Warlocks into 2 squads of 10?


Here is the updated list, lemmie know YAAY or NUU!

Supreme Sorceress
General, Level 4 (Lore of Death)
Sword of Anti-Heroes, Dispel Scroll, Dawnstone, Dark Steed

10 Dark Riders
Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

10 Dark Riders
Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

10 Dark Riders
Full Command, Crossbows & Shields

20 Corsairs
Full Command, Repeater Handbows + Banner of Swiftness

10 Doomfire Warlocks
Master, Soulblight

10 Doomfire Warlocks
Master, Soulblight

10 Harpies

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers

30 Witch Elves
Full Command + Razor Standard

Death Hag
BSB, Cry of War, Rampager's Standard
Cauldron of Blood

Your Supreme Sorceress has wonky items. Magic users (with very few exceptions) are not built for combat, so drop the Sword of Anti-Heroes and do not bother with a Magic Weapon. The best armour save she can get is a 6+, so don't ever bother with the Dawnstone on her either - replace that and the Sword with a Talisman of Preservation. Otherwise, not bad - have her riding with the Warlocks and stay out of combat unless it is against an enemy "light" unit or war machine.

Dark Riders should almost always be in units of 5, as you are new I am guessing you don't understand the concepts of "chaff", frenzy-baiting, double-fleeing and so on but trust me, they are not a front-line combat unit. Don't bother with full command on them, only the musician is necessary; the standard bearer is nice but entirely optional, while the champion is a waste.

Don't bother with Repeater Handbows on Corsairs, if you want a ranged infantry unit just take Darkshards instead who will perform far better. If you want to use Corsairs, take them in minimum unit sizes of 25 and give them the additional hand weapons. Drop the champion and keep the musician and standard bearer, also get rid of the magic standard as they really don't need it.

Warlocks are best either in groups of 5 or units of 16+ with attached characters and a champion, otherwise don't bother with big units or the champion upgrade.

Split the Harpies up into two units of 5 for the same reasons as why Dark Riders should be in small units.

The Bolt Throwers are excellent, keep them.

The Witch Elves are perfect, keep them as well. Your list lacks real punch outside of the Witch Elves and Bolt Throwers, you should consider adding any number of Hydras, Kharibdyss' or Executioners to alleviate this issue.

Your Death Hag really doesn't want to be the BSB, she dies far too easily and will give up a lot of extra victory points to your opponent. The Cry of War is ok but unnecessary, you mostly take the Death Hag for the Cauldron - if you do keep her as a BSB, drop the Rampager Standard. It is unnecessary and unwanted.

You have spent way too many points on units at inefficient sizes for their role, I would explain more on that but I am in a bit of a rush, sorry :(

Drop 10 of your Dark Riders and take 4 units of 5, cut your Warlocks down either to two units of 5 or one big unit of 20 - though if you do that you will need to put your Supreme Sorceress and a number of Masters and Dreadlords also on Dark Steeds in there.

You can drop the Harpies as well, you do not need them once you consider how many Dark Riders and Warlocks you have. Anti-chaff and hunting war machines is not an issue for your army as-is.

Being perfectly honest, your army list does not look anything like a 3000 point Dark Elf list really should. Twenty Dark Riders and 10 Warlocks in six units of 5 each will fulfill your chaff role, and the Level 4 once you make the changes will give you good magic. Otherwise, you have almost zero punch outside of the Witch Elves and Bolt Throwers, and those will drop pretty quickly in a 3000 point game once your opponent realizes they are the only ones that do significant damage. Free up some points and make sure you are doing your calculations correctly, then try and fit a 30+ strong unit of Executioners or a 10+ strong unit of Cold One Knights in, your choice. Throw in as many of those types of units as well as Kharibdyss' as you can, and possibly Black Guard as well.

I would honestly just drop the Corsairs in favour of either more Witch Elves or Darkshards but that is just me.

[Learn2Eel]

Going off of your very mixed theme with lots of Fast Cavalry, here is an army list I devised that you should follow and make modifications to as you see fit so that you can take what you like. As a note, the general advice for almost any army is to take the minimum Core points (so in your 3000 point list, only take 750 points of Core) as generally they are points-inefficient compared to your Special and Rare choices. You can exceed it slightly to fit in some good units but I wouldn't exceed it too much if I were you, try to only go above the requirement by 50 points or so.

LORDS
Supreme Sorceress w/ Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Dark Steed
Level 4 Wizard, Lore of Death

HEROES
Death Hag w/ Cauldron of Blood
Master w/ BSB, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Sword of Might

CORE
Dark Riders (5) w/ shields, repeater crossbows, musician
Dark Riders (5) w/ shields, repeater crossbows, musician
Dark Riders (5) w/ shields, repeater crossbows, musician
Witch Elves (35) w/ musician, standard bearer, razor standard

SPECIAL
Cold One Knights (10) w/ champion, musician, standard bearer, banner of eternal flame
Executioners (30) w/ musician, standard bearer
Cold One Chariot
Cold One Chariot
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower

RARE
Doomfire Warlocks (5)
Doomfire Warlocks (5)

That is 3000 points on the nose and offers not one, not two but three incredibly scary combat units for your opponent to deal with. You have five chaff units that are among the best in their game at what they do, four war machines for dealing with monsters and chaff, a well protected Level 4 Wizard that can scoot around the battlefield using deadly Death magic, an extremely survivable BSB on foot that goes with the Executioners, a Death Hag on a Cauldron of Blood with no problematic upgrades and just a generally well balanced list. It isn't anything special but it should be perfect for a beginner to learn with!

On the Witch Elves, you go with a unit of 35 deployed ten-wide and five-deep with the Cauldron of Blood smack in the middle for a perfect formation that doesn't look messy. This is because a Cauldron of Blood model is "three wide and five deep" technically, meaning when you join it to a horde formation of Witch Elves they will be perfectly ranked up in a 10 wide 5 deep formation. It is also a death-star and will annihilate almost anything it touches. Have fun! :)

[WarHammerman]

Thank you everyone for all the great advice.

I am really, really glad I've gotten so much wonderful advice.

Now, here is yet another updated list - and I think it will be MUCH better then what I've posted previously =D


So, let's try this one out...

Supreme Sorceress [General]
w/ Level 4, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Protection and a Dark Steed
+ 5 Doomfire Warlocks
(The sorceress will join one unit of Warlocks)

5 Doomfire Warlocks

Death Hag, w/ Witchbrew & Cauldron of Blood
+ 35 Witch Elves w/ Musician, Standard Bearer (Razor Standard)
[10 wide, 5 deep centered around the cauldron of blood]


Master BSB w/ Repeater Crossbow, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone.
+ 30 Har Ganeth Executioners w/ Full Command & War Banner
(Master will join the executioners on foot.)

5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbow & Shield
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbow & Shield
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbow & Shield

Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower

10 Cold One Knights w/ Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

War Hydra w/ Spit Fire.

That's 3K on the nose.

As you see I have listened to a lot of advice. The Hydra comes in from a suggestion that I have a big war monster in there. I was unsure, and still am.

Please, let me know if this is going well or what?

Thank you all again, so very much
- Hammerman