Templates and blasts injuring squadmates

[Mike X]

Played a game today with my friend, and I need verification on these two things.

My 10-man combat squad was equipped with a plasmacannon and a flamer. My friend deep striked (or is it deep struck?) his Mycetic Spore + Genestealers right behind my squad.

Now, because there was a Marine model between the flamer and the 'Nids, my friend says that he'll get hit by the flamer. I say he won't, because the rule book states under line of sight that models within a single unit don't affect each others line of sight and are imaginatively removed for such a purpose, but he says that only counts for line of sight and not templates.

Secondly, we agreed that the Mycetic Spore grants a 4+ cover save to the units... but after the flamer annihilated most of the visual models, my friend says that the plasmacannon and bolters from the squad would be unable to see the other models (the ones under the flamer template were removed as casualties).

Mind you, this all took place in just one shooting phase.

So here are my questions:

1) Does a flamer model hit squadmates?

2) Would the rest of the squad suddenly become unable to see the other enemy models once the ones in sight are killed and removed?

[Faultie]

1. I'm pretty sure you cannot place a flame template such that it is even touching your own models. Page 29 in the BRB is what you want.
2. All shooting from the same squad is simultaneous. Thus, if one guy had a flamer, you wouldn't roll wounds immediately and then remove models. You roll all weapons' to-hits, then all-to wounds (make sure you differentiate which weapons are which), then he allocates wounds and makes saves (noting which ones don't allow armor/cover/invulnerable saves). Pages 15- 25 is where you find the sequence of events.

[Ferro]

Your opponent was right on templates, and wrong on cover/casualties:

A template weapon cannot be placed touching any friendly models; generally, you will need to plan ahead with your model placement so that your flamer is available to use.

All shooting from a single unit is considered to happen simultaneously. It's fine to place the template first (though in this particular case it sounds like it shouldn't have been possible), but no casualty models are actually removed until the shooting from the rest of the unit has been resolved also.

Then, wounds/armor saves are taken. Then, models get removed.

[Mike X]

Your opponent was right on templates, and wrong on cover/casualties:

A template weapon cannot be placed touching any friendly models; generally, you will need to plan ahead with your model placement so that your flamer is available to use.

All shooting from a single unit is considered to happen simultaneously. It's fine to place the template first (though in this particular case it sounds like it shouldn't have been possible), but no casualty models are actually removed until the shooting from the rest of the unit has been resolved also.

Then, wounds/armor saves are taken. Then, models get removed.

Interesting. Thanks for the help!

[Magos Bellum]

So, since the topic also says blasts...

Would you still take casualties say if the guy with the plasma cannon scattered horribly and the shot landed behind him, hitting several of his comrades?

[Lerra]

Yes. You can scatter and kill your own guys, or scatter and kill guys who are locked in close combat. You can't intentionally place the blast marker on those targets, though.

[Nabterayl]

Yes, you would. The reason template weapons can't hurt friendlies is because page 29 says you can't place the template so it touches any friendlies, and templates never scatter. Blast weapons cannot be placed so that the template would touch a friendly, but once they scatter, all models under the template are affected, according to page 30.

The short version of pages 29 and 30 is that you can't aim a template or blast weapon so it would hurt friendlies, but if it scatters onto friendlies, that's perfectly fine.

[Wulfric]

... but if it scatters onto friendlies, that's perfectly fine.

For a given, and fairly small, value of 'fine'.

[BuFFo]

1) Does a flamer model hit squadmates?

No, because you cannot place the template over friendly models in the first place.