nurgle psycher questions

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

so you already come with the primaris for the nurgle disciplines for both csm and deamons. that is a specific rule for them so a lvl 2 sorcerer would still get to roll 2 power from another discipline. and in order to get the free primaris those power's have to be from the same discipline. so if you take 2 powers from say biomancy then you would also get the primaris as you took all of your actual power's from the same discipline. the nurgle power is basically a free power or am i interperating this incorrectly?

[Theik]

so you already come with the primaris for the nurgle disciplines for both csm and deamons. that is a specific rule for them so a lvl 2 sorcerer would still get to roll 2 power from another discipline. and in order to get the free primaris those power's have to be from the same discipline. so if you take 2 powers from say biomancy then you would also get the primaris as you took all of your actual power's from the same discipline. the nurgle power is basically a free power or am i interperating this incorrectly?

The rule that gives you the nurgle primaris for free overrides the rule that you get the primaris for free if you take everything from the same discipline, because chaos sorcerers can't do that. (They have to take at least one from their mark, but may not take more than half, meaning that they'd never get a free primaris.) You do not get two free primaris powers.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

yes the CSM rule book states that a player must select one power from their god's discipline... so which way do you rule that. the rule book tell you your getting the power for free and then the codex tells you your have to draw a power from nurgle as well.

[Theik]

yes the CSM rule book states that a player must select one power from their god's discipline... so which way do you rule that. the rule book tell you your getting the power for free and then the codex tells you your have to draw a power from nurgle as well.

Most people can't seem to agree on that. There are some who say you still need to pick one power yourself, while others say your free power counts as the one you "must" have.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Most people can't seem to agree on that. There are some who say you still need to pick one power yourself, while others say your free power counts as the one you "must" have.


Ya i am one of those who says that's what makes sense to me i wont argue for a 2nd primaris but i would strongly argue that you get to take the primaris which in turn counts as you mandatory chaos power and are allowed to make 2 rolls on another chart if you please

[DarkLink]

Honestly, don't look too closely at any of the psychic rules. They kind of completely fall apart if you do so.

[Charistoph]

I always thought the Focus rules came in to play after the powers were chosen. It wouldn't make much sense to come in to play before hand, after all, since they are "in addition to what what you know".

[Lord Krungharr]

The Chaos Focus for CSM sorcerers does not 'generate' the Primaris for them. They still must 'generate' one power from the list as per the Codex rule. Then they get the Chaos Primaris power as a bonus (or boner if you're Slaanesh :) )

[DarkLink]

That's really the crux of the issue. To gain normal psychic focus, you may only "generate" powers from a single discipline. So, does the free chaos psychic focus power count as "generating" or not? It's one of many areas of the psychic phase that simply is not clarified.

[daboarder]

Counts to my reading. Its in the generating psychic powers what else would it be.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

The Chaos Focus for CSM sorcerers does not 'generate' the Primaris for them. They still must 'generate' one power from the list as per the Codex rule. Then they get the Chaos Primaris power as a bonus (or boner if you're Slaanesh :) )

I would completely disagree with that. If you look at chaos focus its seperate from the psychic focus rule. I would push forth the concept that you are given the primaris or as some have said a d6 power role for your specific god which would then fill the requirement that you need to take a power from the CSM book. when you look at how they are selected they do not have an order for when chaos focus comes into play. there is no step by step order of operations. therefore taking that power as a free roll still allows you to roll for you mastery levels. thus taking say typhus you would end up with your primaris or free roll then 2 additional rolls along with force for a total of 4 powers for your level 2 psycher.

From what i have seen and seen it ruled as your not able to have psychic focus for a particular discipline via the chaos CSM codex as its currently written thus to balance it out you have chaos focus which means your not penalized for taking a marked sorceer. other wise if you look at a marker sorceer then they completely fail when compared to psychers from other armies as well as unmarked sorceer's. chaos focus is just a balancing tools. other wise as you would want it played the CSM marked sorceer would only ever have 3 powers force being one of them and they are penalized for taking said marks. if you look at the intend its all there. other wise chaos focus makes no sense what so ever. yet when you look at is as being the tool to fufill the codex requirement it makes is so that you do not loose the benefit of being psychically focused in a particular discipline.

[Lord Krungharr]

This issue is actually very very very clear RAW. In the Chaos Marines Codex, page 70 it states verbatim:

If the psyker has a Mark of Chaos, or is a Daemon of a particular Chaos God, they must roll at least one, and may roll up to half, of their powers on the table that corrsponds to their patron deity.

The rule in the Codex is NOT changed by anything in the Chaos Psychic Focus rule on page 22 of the main rule book (in the lower right blackened area), dupiclated below:

If a psyker has a Mark of Chaos or is a Daemon of a particular Chaos God (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Daemons), that model automatically knows the primaris power of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, in addition to any other powers it knows.

Nowhere do we get out of rolling at least one power for our Marked or Daemon of... CSM psykers. CSM Codex says we must roll at least one power from the appropriate table, and BRB says the psyker just knows the Primaris. That's the fair trade. But on the bright side, a Daemon Prince of Nurgle from the Daemons book CAN take all 3 rolls on Biomancy and will still automatically know the Nurgle Daemons Primaris.

[daboarder]

He roll is old obsolete t r rminology and no longer the only way to generate powers. Furthermore even by your idea you are breaking that rule. Because a ML1 psycker would have all powers from his god which is illegal.

The one/half restriction is far more important that the use of the old "roll" terminology for generate

[Lord Krungharr]

Hmmm, not so, a Mastery 1 psyker would only be able to know 2 powers from the Chaos god's discipline and I have not said otherwise. How did you get that from what I said?
A Mastery 3 CSM Nurgle psyker could roll up to 2 powers from the Nurgle Discipline (why it would want to? who knows...), and it would know the Primaris because of Chaos Focus. He could not know all 3 powers. A Daemons Nurgle psyker could indeed know all the Daemons Nurgle powers. Nothing illegal about that.

The way powers are generated from psychic disciplines is to roll on the table, there is not an alternative method unless the psyker has special rules about specific powers they already know (like Draigo knowing Gate of Infinity for example). So the word 'roll' in the CSM rules is not old terminology, it's current and applicable terminology in the current Codex; which I might add is not in conflict with the BRB.

[daboarder]

They may only ever know at maximum HALF their powers from their gods tables thats in the rules. A ML1 with two nurgle powers is clearly violating that rule

[Lord Krungharr]

They may only ever know at maximum HALF their powers from their gods tables thats in the rules. A ML1 with two nurgle powers is clearly violating that rule

That is absolutely NOT what it says in the Chaos Codex. It says they may roll up to half of their powers on the table that corresponds to their patron deity. Re-read the words on the CSM page 70. The Chaos Focus of the BRB does not violate that.