Forgotten Lore...

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Decided to start this topic because of a (now ancient) short story printed in an obscure WD, around about the time of Eye of Terror. In this story, a top secret, quite possibly rogue Magos Biologis installation is raided by Fabius Bile, who makes off with something - something heavily implied to be a clone of a Primarch (if not in fact the body of a Primarch).

Couldn't tell you the issue number beyond 'around about Eye of Terror time, or just immediately before' but I can tell you it was a cool read.

What other dribs and drabs of Lore have fallen by the way side? Doesn't have to be Galaxy changing, just favoured short stories and that.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'm fairly sure that short story was in reference to the Cursed Founding (Black Dragons, Legion of the Damned, Lamenters, Flame Falcons etc). I thought that corpse was "simply" one of the more heavily altered geneseed test subjects?

[Mr Mystery]

Could well be - certainly wasn't at all clear what precisely the body was, but I seem to recall (with absolutely no certainty!) that the sheer size of the body was referred to.

Oh what I would give for a collected edition of WD short stories!

[Morgrim]

The old Dark Eldar codex mentioned that some Kabalites actually do have psychic talents comparable to their Craftworld brethren, despite it being widely assumed that the whole race is incapable of it. But those that manifest them keep that knowledge tightly to themselves because being outed as a psyker automatically sentences one to being handed over to the haemonculi.

I think there was a reference to that in Lady Malys' tale, since her rivals suspect she may be and if they could prove it (or plausibly frame her for it) it'd be a quick way of getting rid of her.

[Path Walker]

How do?

Decided to start this topic because of a (now ancient) short story printed in an obscure WD, around about the time of Eye of Terror. In this story, a top secret, quite possibly rogue Magos Biologis installation is raided by Fabius Bile, who makes off with something - something heavily implied to be a clone of a Primarch (if not in fact the body of a Primarch).

Couldn't tell you the issue number beyond 'around about Eye of Terror time, or just immediately before' but I can tell you it was a cool read.

What other dribs and drabs of Lore have fallen by the way side? Doesn't have to be Galaxy changing, just favoured short stories and that.

I always thought it was one of the Horus clones that the Imperium had gotten hold of, and the tie into the cursed founding was because those Chapters were based on his gene seed.

[Mr Mystery]

That's possible.

Don't suppose anyone has a WD issue number for that short story? I know it was tiddly, but it was an absolute cracker!

[Aaron LeClair]

quick searching these are the 3 that have lore on him it seems. not sure if one of them is the one you are looking for.

White Dwarf 278 (US), "Heroes & Villains of the 41st Millennium: Fabius Bile"
White Dwarf 255 (US), "Index Astartes First Founding: Children of the Emperor"
White Dwarf 227 (US), "Chapter Approved - Fabius Bile: Chaos Lord", pp. 73-80

[40kGamer]

Can someone point me to the hiding place of the original Deathwing Native American lore? I found a digital copy years ago but seem to have misplaced the pdf and a google search turned up very little.

[Aaron LeClair]

Unless you mean when he got his hands on Horus body and he did make a clone of him....

[Houghten]

Can someone point me to the hiding place of the original Deathwing Native American lore? I found a digital copy years ago but seem to have misplaced the pdf and a google search turned up very little.

You want the short story "Deathwing," (http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/deathwing-short-story-ebook.html) also found in the anthology of the same name. (http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/deathwing-ebook.html)

[40kGamer]

You want the short story "Deathwing," (http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/deathwing-short-story-ebook.html) also found in the anthology of the same name. (http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/deathwing-ebook.html)

Thanks mate. Is this an actual reprint of the first work or a revised telling?

[Houghten]

I don't know how true to the original the ebook is, I'm afraid.

[40kGamer]

I don't know how true to the original the ebook is, I'm afraid.

I'll give it a read. Hopefully if they edited anything it would just be a prologue/epilogue edit while maintaining the original story. :)

[Blood Shadow]

I'd love to know whether my GK fluff memory was correct or not.....I'm sure I recall around the time of Space Hulk expansions (Deathwing etc) there were mentions of the Grey knights either being actually gold, either they're grey but they look gold because of their aura or they're actually gold and look grey...

It's stuck in my mind from somewhere and remains the justification for painting mine gold, rather than the traditional silver.

Also I remember at the same time, Terminator armour was said to be so precious because each Crux symbol (LH shoulder) had a sliver of the emperors armour from the final battle with Horus, this was the origin of it's inherent invulnerable save, rather than an in built refractor field as I believe it is today. Weirdly I've never liked taking Terminators because if they die, then I was scared that I'd lose a little piece of the Emperors soul
:(

I was young so may have not remembered this right or ay have simple misread it....but regardless they both stuck

[40kGamer]

I'd love to know whether my GK fluff memory was correct or not.....I'm sure I recall around the time of Space Hulk expansions (Deathwing etc) there were mentions of the Grey knights either being actually gold, either they're grey but they look gold because of their aura or they're actually gold and look grey...

It's stuck in my mind from somewhere and remains the justification for painting mine gold, rather than the traditional silver.

Also I remember at the same time, Terminator armour was said to be so precious because each Crux symbol (LH shoulder) had a sliver of the emperors armour from the final battle with Horus, this was the origin of it's inherent invulnerable save, rather than an in built refractor field as I believe it is today. Weirdly I've never liked taking Terminators because if they die, then I was scared that I'd lose a little piece of the Emperors soul
:(

I was young so may have not remembered this right or ay have simple misread it....but regardless they both stuck


Some of the early Grey Knight appearances look to be in Slaves to Darkness and White Dwarf 113/114. I'll blow the dust off of these tonight and see what I can find.

[khambatta]

I definitely remember gold Grey Knights in old WD photos of the studio Epic army. That piece might be from some of the Adeptus Titanicus material, but I've no idea which edition.

[Blood Shadow]

I definitely remember gold Grey Knights in old WD photos of the studio Epic army. That piece might be from some of the Adeptus Titanicus material, but I've no idea which edition.

I have a feeling it was just a short piece of fluff inserted randomly amongst a Death Wing article.... At a complete guess I'd go for the WD with the Death Wing guy on the front c.WD115 - WD135

[Mr Mystery]

I'd love to know whether my GK fluff memory was correct or not.....I'm sure I recall around the time of Space Hulk expansions (Deathwing etc) there were mentions of the Grey knights either being actually gold, either they're grey but they look gold because of their aura or they're actually gold and look grey...

It's stuck in my mind from somewhere and remains the justification for painting mine gold, rather than the traditional silver.

Also I remember at the same time, Terminator armour was said to be so precious because each Crux symbol (LH shoulder) had a sliver of the emperors armour from the final battle with Horus, this was the origin of it's inherent invulnerable save, rather than an in built refractor field as I believe it is today. Weirdly I've never liked taking Terminators because if they die, then I was scared that I'd lose a little piece of the Emperors soul
:(

I was young so may have not remembered this right or ay have simple misread it....but regardless they both stuck

Correct on both accounts.

Silver and Gold armour for Grey Knights was the norm.

And yep, every Crux Terminatus is said to have a fragment of the Emperor's armour within it. Though Terminator armour gets it's 5+ Inv from just being really, really thick!

[Path Walker]

Yeah the 5+ invulenerable save was to make it better than just the 2+ save when they first made 3rd edition and had too many AP2 weapons, I miss save modifiers, much better way of working it out.

[40kGamer]

I have a feeling it was just a short piece of fluff inserted randomly amongst a Death Wing article.... At a complete guess I'd go for the WD with the Death Wing guy on the front c.WD115 - WD135

Most likely! I didn't find any colour descriptions in WD113/114 or Slaves to Darkness. Just general fluff and Army lists. I'll scan through the 115-135 over the weekend and see if anything pops out... I love original fluff so I would really like to find this now... Plus it would give me a valid excuse to paint some unusual Grey Knights. :D

- - - Updated - - -

I also found the original Deathwing fluff in the, wait for it... "Deathwing" expansion for Space Hulk. [insert facepalm]... The only piece I didn't see when I scanned through it was the original roster for the Deathwing that listed their birth names alongside the Imperial names they adopted when they joined the Dark Angels. Maybe that piece is in an old WD article.

[Blood Shadow]

Correct on both accounts.

Silver and Gold armour for Grey Knights was the norm.

And yep, every Crux Terminatus is said to have a fragment of the Emperor's armour within it. Though Terminator armour gets it's 5+ Inv from just being really, really thick!

Awesome!!! Do you happen to have a reference?

[Charon]

The old Dark Eldar codex mentioned that some Kabalites actually do have psychic talents comparable to their Craftworld brethren, despite it being widely assumed that the whole race is incapable of it. But those that manifest them keep that knowledge tightly to themselves because being outed as a psyker automatically sentences one to being handed over to the haemonculi.

I think there was a reference to that in Lady Malys' tale, since her rivals suspect she may be and if they could prove it (or plausibly frame her for it) it'd be a quick way of getting rid of her.

The 3 major books (Path of the Renegade/Inccubus/Archon) made it clear that they are still psychic but supress it. Craftworlders also supress their potential and only learn to re-utilize it when they trod on certain paths (Path of the Seer/Warrior/Outcast)

[Mr Mystery]

The 3 major books (Path of the Renegade/Inccubus/Archon) made it clear that they are still psychic but supress it. Craftworlders also supress their potential and only learn to re-utilize it when they trod on certain paths (Path of the Seer/Warrior/Outcast)

That's pretty cool!

Will need to track down copies of the Dark Eldar Path books.

[PGTipMonkey]

Hello Mr Mystery

The issue was WD260 page 98 the story is called the Cursed Founding by Graham McNeail. I remember it vividly from when i was younger and still read it on a regular basis.

[The Imperial Fist]

I certainly remember gold grey knights in white dwarf. I'd thought the invulnerable save came from the crux terminatus too, I thought I'd seem it called a crux terminatus save somewhere years ago.

[Wolfshade]

I thought so too, might need to go a trawling through the old books

[evilruss]

Can someone point me to the hiding place of the original Deathwing Native American lore? I found a digital copy years ago but seem to have misplaced the pdf and a google search turned up very little.

That would be the "Deathwing" short story/ collection. It's been reprinted a few times. The original deathwing were from one of the planets that the DA replinish from.

[0rph3u5]

The 3 major books (Path of the Renegade/Inccubus/Archon) made it clear that they are still psychic but supress it.

The books also mention that there actually is a pysker fringe in the Outer Realms of Commorragh (or at least there was in Shaa-dom, which is the pick-up point for the whole cycle)

There is also a fluff bit in the 5ed Codex about events around 248.M41 that can be interpreded that an Archon harboured psykers to summon daemons by way of an undiscolsed ritual

[Mr Mystery]

Hello Mr Mystery

The issue was WD260 page 98 the story is called the Cursed Founding by Graham McNeail. I remember it vividly from when i was younger and still read it on a regular basis.

Ace! Cheers dude!

[Darren Richardson]

taking a look back through the White Dwarf Issue 112 when Termies were first introduced, it's interesting to note that the Dark Angels had a black colour scheme for them as well, it seems it was several months later when they introduced the Bone White colours for the Deathwing.

on a side note, it's interesting to see that Forge Worlds favourite Marine sons the Red Scorpions were around so early... the epic article mentions them :)

[Tim Kaye]

I had recently listened to Deathwing on a Youtube channel called Grimdark narrator; unfortunately GW got wind of him making narrations of their books and he's had to stop. I do remember, however, very clearly, that it is a direct result of the events told in that story that they start painting their armour bone-white. If memory serves correctly, I think it was to honour the tribespeople that they originated from, who had been subjugated by a Genestealer cult. I think the colour was representative of those who were 'living ghosts' and didn't expect to live through the upcoming battle.

[Mr Mystery]

The bonewhite came from a tribal custom the squad followed upon finding the devastation of their people - they covered their armour in the ashes of the fallen.

[LonewolfRJ]

Does it tick anyone else off when new editions of codexes or new novels show that the authors / editors didn' t read the original material on the subject and thereby totally screw-up the storyline?

[This Dave]

Does it tick anyone else off when new editions of codexes or new novels show that the authors / editors didn' t read the original material on the subject and thereby totally screw-up the storyline?

Unless they actually improve it yes. I read somewhere that Dan Abnett didn't know much about the 40k universe before he started writing the Gaunt's Ghosts stories. And now the stuff he's made up for his stories is now canon.