Tactical ideas for all infantry Astra Militarum

[Halollet]

I love play all infantry guard, I love winning even though my opponent took 100+ models of mine off the field. Now with the new Dex and veterans and conscripts getting cheaper and with commissars being cheap and flexible and priests adding fun stuff, its looking better then ever for my army!

But now I've got some deciding to do. Where is the best place to put heavy weapons? In HWT would give me the most for the point cost but low leadership and low model count makes me hesitate. Infantry blob squads gives me lots of fodder but a lot of 'wasted' points on those models that may not do anything all game. Veterans bring the better BS and lots of special weapons, has a few fodder models but its only 10 guardsmen and can be a poi t sink pretty quick.

For the assault/move up blobs I'm trying to decide between combined squads, conscripts, or both. Combined squads allow me to take upgrades and special weapons and they'll be able to hit something when they shoot. Conscripts are so damn cheap though I can just send them off to be slaughtered without batting an eye. However, taking two conscript squads would require me taking 2 PCS and 4 infantry squads. That's a heavy tax if I'm adding in veterans so I might limit myself to one conscript blob and take both kind of blobs.

Primaris pskyers also strike me as new and happy tools. Just wondering which deciples I should take and where to put them. I am planning to take 3.

Anyone have luck with rough riders in this addition or is overwatch the end for this unit?

[This Dave]

I've actually had decent luck with Rough Riders though oddly usually not through charging things. I give them two Flamers and usually keep them near a blob of infantry or behind some kind of blocking terrain. Then if something gets annoyingly close to them I ride forward and torch them (because what can go wrong with flamethrowers from horseback? :) ), chuck a grenade, and flail with their pistols. If the target is sufficiently weakened then ill charge in and finish them off. It's always amusing when you kill a Marine with Hammer of Wrath. :) I've actually killed off entire Ork mobs this way. They can also ambush an unsuspecting vehicle as they come with Krak grenades too.

I also understand about the HWTs too. I had 6 of them and I failed to give them orders over half the time because all dice hate me. I have had luck putting Heavy Bolters in large blob mobs actually. If they stand still they help the firepower of the blob a lot. And even if they have to snap shoot due to moving on average a Heavy Bolter will still wound more often than a Lasgun. And even then, the HB team can fire its Lasgun if you really want them to join in a FRFSRF mad minute.

Not a big fan of Conscripts myself. Yeah they can soak damage especially if you put a Priest or Commissar in with them but the points difference between them and normal Guardsmen isn't that great and they're damn near useless for anything else. Plus as slow as I build and paint I don't like to make a lot of thing I know aren't going to be all that useful.

[Katharon]

Never, ever, never, ever replace a Rough Rider's hunting lance for another special weapon like a Flamer, Grenade Launcher, melta gun, or plasma gun. Just DON'T. The moment you take away the Hunting Lance, that guardsman stops being a Rough Rider and starts being a liability. You want plasma guns, buy one for an Infantry Veteran. Don't waste the effectiveness of the Rough Rider close combat charge by lessening it by fielding a rough rider with a flamer. If you want to give them an extra edge of power, then have the sgt take melta bombs.

Best thing is to never put heavy weapons in a regular Infantry Squad (only flamers and grenade launchers -- if that), you have HWSs for that and sometimes its better to have a Veteran Squad hunkered down in cover with a lascannon or ML so you can use their higher ballistic skill.

You can also take towed artillery in the new IA book, for extra umphf.

[This Dave]

Never, ever, never, ever replace a Rough Rider's hunting lance for another special weapon like a Flamer, Grenade Launcher, melta gun, or plasma gun. Just DON'T. The moment you take away the Hunting Lance, that guardsman stops being a Rough Rider and starts being a liability. You want plasma guns, buy one for an Infantry Veteran. Don't waste the effectiveness of the Rough Rider close combat charge by lessening it by fielding a rough rider with a flamer. If you want to give them an extra edge of power, then have the sgt take melta bombs.

Best thing is to never put heavy weapons in a regular Infantry Squad (only flamers and grenade launchers -- if that), you have HWSs for that and sometimes its better to have a Veteran Squad hunkered down in cover with a lascannon or ML so you can use their higher ballistic skill.

You can also take towed artillery in the new IA book, for extra umphf.

You say that yet my RRs have killed far more with their two Flamers than they have with their charges. I think their record is fifteen Orks with just the two flame shots. On a charge the unit could at best have got 20 assuming every single one hit and killed, which just doesn't ever happen. Even against Marines the Flamers tend to get one or two kills before they even charge in. They don't even have to risk Overwatch to do it either. And against Eldar and many Tyranids they're great as those things can still strike first even with the Hunting Lance.

It also helps if they are the ones getting charged. 2d3 automatic Flamer hits are a LOT better than one or maybe two Laspistol hits at breaking up a charge.

Also, Flamers can be used more than once. Hunting Lances are one and done. So once they do a charge with them they revert to just poor two or three S 3 WS 3 attacks or crappy Laspistol shooting. Flamers really help keep them useful.

[Halollet]

I did some rough number crunching and it looks like the lance and a flamer hitting 4 models is about the same when compared to TEQ and MEQ. So that's worth a play test. Thanks!

If I have a veteran squad with a lascannon, what special weapons, if any, would I equip the rest of the squad?

The new orders are awesome so I'm wondering if I should double up op on the company command or the platoon command? I was leaning towards having two CCS to have two MoO and psykers on the table. But PCS are cheap. Maybe have two of each for games that are over 1500?

[Katharon]

Sniper rifles or plasma guns.

The more orders you can give out, the better.

[Denzark]

I have just used my first 50 man blob. They killed a dreadknight in one round of FRF,SRF. I gave them no special or HW, leaving the specials on the Vets and leaving the heavies on the tanks. I am not sure on HWT other than lascannons or Sabres. I would consider hiding 5 lascannons in a blob in a defensive position, or maybe 5 HBs. Split fire with orders means it is not always a waste.

[This Dave]

I wouldn't go too nuts with Masters of Ordnance. They're horribly inaccurate since they always scatter and as it is Ordnance you can't even use it if the unit moves. They're nice if you're fighting another large mob enemy since it's hard to miss something but otherwise I wouldn't get your hopes up. Also, the CCS has to shoot at whatever the MoO shoots at (or vice versa) so unless it's loaded with long ranged weapons you start dropping shells danger close to yourself.

- - - Updated - - -


I have just used my first 50 man blob. They killed a dreadknight in one round of FRF,SRF. I gave them no special or HW, leaving the specials on the Vets and leaving the heavies on the tanks. I am not sure on HWT other than lascannons or Sabres. I would consider hiding 5 lascannons in a blob in a defensive position, or maybe 5 HBs. Split fire with orders means it is not always a waste.

How did they do that with just Lasguns? I didn't think they could wound a T8 thing?

[Katharon]

Dreadknights are T6...unless they changed that in the new edition? Lasguns can still hurt it.

[Denzark]

What he said. S3 needs 6 to wound T6. I fired somewhere in excess of 140 shots and got 17 wounds, he failed 4 saves.

[This Dave]

What he said. S3 needs 6 to wound T6. I fired somewhere in excess of 140 shots and got 17 wounds, he failed 4 saves.

Oops! My bad. I was thinking Wraithknight for some reason.

Don't mind me, carry on!

[Mr.Pickelz]

I tried doing an Artillery support army list with Vostroyans, when the 5th ed. book first came out, and it worked really well. However it slowed the game down because i took 9 Mortar squads.... The infantry only lists tend to do well due to saturation, and as long as you play the attrition game, you'll win. When in doubt, throw more bodies at it.
One strategy is, "do not assault, but wrap", if your opponent gets close throw a Ten man unit at it by moving and running to surround the unit, forcing the unit to assault the ten man squad. If your positioning is right, the enemy will wipe out the unit in their turn leaving them open for another round of shooting in your turn.

[Halollet]

Looking at the company command squad. Good point about the MoO but I'm not sure about adding heavy weapons to them. Because as soon as you add a vox you only have 3 chumps to take wounds. Add in a heavy weapon and you're left with one before you start loosing something important. Would it be best to just leave them cheap and naked?

[This Dave]

Looking at the company command squad. Good point about the MoO but I'm not sure about adding heavy weapons to them. Because as soon as you add a vox you only have 3 chumps to take wounds. Add in a heavy weapon and you're left with one before you start loosing something important. Would it be best to just leave them cheap and naked?

If you're just using them as a source of orders definitely. But since they have BS of 4 it's usually worth it to arm anyone not doing something else with a cheap weapon like a Grenade Launcher or Sniper Rifle. The GL lets you move the squad around while still having decent range and punch while the Sniper Rifles let you stay back and plink at stuff should you choose from farther back. Plus they can wound anything and have the chance for an AP 2 Precision Shot, which is always a nice bonus.

[Halollet]

Well, based on this thread, I've come up with this list.

HQ
Company Command
Astropath Master of Ordanance Vox-Caster Camo gear x4
Company Command
Astropath Officer of the Fleet Vox-Caster Camo gear x4
Ministorum Priest x2
Primaris Psyker Mastery Level 2 x3

Troops

Veterans
Sniper Rifles x3 Lascannon Forward Sentries Vox Caster
Veterans
Bolter Grenade Launcher x3 Missile Launcher Forward Sentries Vox Caster

Platoon Command
Vox-Caster Meltagun x2
Infantry Squad
Power Axe Meltabomb Flamer Vox
Infantry Squad
Power Axe Meltabomb Flamer
Infantry Squad
Flamer
Special Weapon Squad
Flamer x2 Demo Charge
Special Weapon Squad
Flamer x2 Demo Charge
Heavy Weapon Squad
AutoCannon
Heavy Weapon Squad
Mortar
Heavy Weapon Squad
Missile Launcher
Heavy Weapon Squad
Lascannon
Conscripts x30

Elite

Tempestus Scions
Meltagun x2
Tempestus Scions
Meltagun x2

Fast Attack

Rough Riders x7
Flamer x2

Aegis Line

1850 points
145 models! :)

That's a lot of guys.... I likes this!

[Katharon]

You need *all* the commissars.

[Halollet]

You need *all* the commissars.
I was thinking I needed one, but I couldn't figure out where to put him. Thoughts?

[This Dave]

I was thinking I needed one, but I couldn't figure out where to put him. Thoughts?

Put one in the first squad of the infantry platoon. That way if/when you combine the squads the entire blob gets the benefits of his higher Leadership for morale and taking orders and his Bolt Pistol of judgement if they decide to do something you don't like.

Remember one thing with those Priests, because they make a unit Fearless that unit can't go to ground which can be a vital survival tactic for Guard. And unlike other armies you can order your units to Get Back in the Fight so they can still act normally next turn so other than using up an Order there isn't a penalty for doing it.

[Katharon]

Commissars > Priests, imho. but both are good.

[Halollet]

Put one in the first squad of the infantry platoon. That way if/when you combine the squads the entire blob gets the benefits of his higher Leadership for morale and taking orders and his Bolt Pistol of judgement if they decide to do something you don't like.

Remember one thing with those Priests, because they make a unit Fearless that unit can't go to ground which can be a vital survival tactic for Guard. And unlike other armies you can order your units to Get Back in the Fight so they can still act normally next turn so other than using up an Order there isn't a penalty for doing it.

That's all true, but I'm bringing 3 psykers that he'll shoot pretty quick with the frequency of perils these days. So if I did bring a Commi, where do I put my psykers?

[Mad Cat]

I would stick with preists as you have plenty of voxes.

Have you thought about inquisitors instead of preists/commisars/psykers? You can get a level 1 psyker with Ld10, 3W and stubourn for 55 points with the option to go for fancy grenades or power armour for a little extra. Add one of these to each blob for prescience and to keep the units from running.

Also take a look at Forgeworld Rapier laser destroyers. For about 50% more than a lascannon HWS they get 3+ armour, twin linked, ordnance (pick the best of 2D6 for armour pen) T7 and extra wounds. It stops them being such an easy unit to pick off and they are better at shooting apart from only having 36" range which isn't so bad.

[This Dave]

That's all true, but I'm bringing 3 psykers that he'll shoot pretty quick with the frequency of perils these days. So if I did bring a Commi, where do I put my psykers?

What are you messing about with mind powers when you could be taking more big guns? This is the Guard after all! :)

Unless you're counting on the Psykers' abilities I actually like Mad Cat's suggestion to take an Inquisitor or two. It'll give Psyker abilities, nice wargear, and give whatever unit they're attached to Leadership 10. If you are counting on getting off some powers then keep the Psykers and don't take a Commissar.

[clever handle]

I would also suggest Mad Cat's idea regarding rapier laser destroyer squads. HWT being 2W, T3 with no eternal warrior still (even though its two men! seriously GW?) just explode in a meta of serpent shields and missile pods.