Does this annoy anyone else?

[YorkNecromancer]

So 40K is built on over the top imagery, and I can accept most of it as just that. But the one thing that totally stops me from suspending my disbelief?

Any time a gun with gatling barrels is on a model without a significant ammunition container.

Seriously, this is the size of a typical assault cannon ammo box:

http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/images/dark_angel_assault_cannon_large.jpg?osCsid=fos7vk7 ogilerivo85pdfcrin4

Compare it to the size needed for a modern gatling gun:

http://www.liveactionfx.com/Images/Pictures/minigun2.gif

The ammo pack is bigger than the gun! And that backpack would give you exactly five seconds of firepower!

Then compare it to something 40K sized - the avenger cannon off an A-10 tankbuster...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg/800px-GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg

THE AMMO DRUM IS THE SIZE OF A CAR!

AND THAT WOULD LOOK AWESOME ON A TERMINATOR'S BACK!!!

http://www.angelfire.com/on2/snakesdomain/images/raven.jpg

I'm just saying...

[Psychosplodge]

Maybe it includes teleportation tech and the ammo is stored in a warehouse...

[Gotthammer]

Behold the power of the holy STC! Bow before the Machine God! Praise the Omnisiah!

01001110011001010110001101110010011011110110111001 11001100100000011001000110100101100100001000000110 100101110100

[Wolfshade]

But it only needs to fire a maximum of what 28 shots? 28 bullets won't take up that much room...

[Arkhan Land]

6 turns, 24 bullets, double for overwatch and if need be you send a young scout to run across the battlefield, back into reserves and then all the way back up to the deep striking terminators. High five and then a pat on the back.


Maybe it includes teleportation tech and the ammo is stored in a warehouse...

without a brick and mortar ammunition box, the assault cannon can shoot its full rate of fire with 15-20% off the amount of bullets

[This Dave]

You worry about ammo when the barrels don't actually line up with the firing chamber? Talk about magic bullets! Or that only the barrels rotate, what's up with that?

And don't get me started on the Heavy Bolters where the ammo belt feeds right behind the muzzle. What is going on in the rest of the weapon's length, heating up tea?

[Psychosplodge]

6 turns, 24 bullets, double for overwatch and if need be you send a young scout to run across the battlefield, back into reserves and then all the way back up to the deep striking terminators. High five and then a pat on the back.

without a brick and mortar ammunition box, the assault cannon can shoot its full rate of fire with 15-20% off the amount of bullets

Yes but maybe it fires the whole bullet, that's 65% more bullet.


You worry about ammo when the barrels don't actually line up with the firing chamber? Talk about magic bullets! Or that only the barrels rotate, what's up with that?

And don't get me started on the Heavy Bolters where the ammo belt feeds right behind the muzzle. What is going on in the rest of the weapon's length, heating up tea?

Well don't forget they were designed in the UK and heating tea has been an important part of the British Army's kit since we had access to tea.

[Wolfshade]

You worry about ammo when the barrels don't actually line up with the firing chamber? Talk about magic bullets! Or that only the barrels rotate, what's up with that?
Obviously the ammo gets injected in the middle then by the power of the the centripetal force it spins the bullets to the edges and into a chamber


And don't get me started on the Heavy Bolters where the ammo belt feeds right behind the muzzle. What is going on in the rest of the weapon's length, heating up tea?

Well you know it was originally designed by a Brit...

[Denzark]

On the subject of heating tea I understand the water cooling system in the vickers machine gun got so hot you could make a brew with it. But ot if you can believe there is space in the turret of a Russ for the breech and it's recoil, you can believe anything...

[CoffeeGrunt]

How does a Russ Demolisher even work? That's another biggie, that turret is tiny for such a large round. Not to mention the Punisher, though it is said that gunners using it only fire it in minute bursts and gut the tank out to pack spare ammo in.

Hell, even the numble Bolt Pistol makes no sense.

[clever handle]

so you're cool with the fact that the collective human empire builds space ships that dwarf continents and contain munitions to completely eradicate all life on a planet. They then fly these through a realm of nightmare made real to cross the galaxy. Upon reaching their destination, they shoot giant space-bullets at the ground. These space bullets impact the earth and disgorge their contents - genetically enhanced super-soldiers, wearing high-tech battle armor equipped with all sorts of neat target-finders, sensors and communications devices. These warriors un-sling their armaments - veritable cannons that fire rounds so large they can punch through battle-tank armor - and then charge headlong into the enemy, where they can punch them in the face repeatedly with oversized, glowing gloves?

You're cool with that, but the fact that the assault cannon's ammunition hopper is a bit small breaks your suspension of disbelief?

=)

naw, this is the same as "how does a space marine actually fit in his armor?" or "how would a Cadian fit inside a suit of space marine armor?" or "how do 10 space marines fit inside a rhino?" or "how is a tervigon able to gestate & hatch potentially 105 gants in a mater of minutes?", etc.

[40kGamer]

So 40K is built on over the top imagery, and I can accept most of it as just that. But the one thing that totally stops me from suspending my disbelief?

Any time a gun with gatling barrels is on a model without a significant ammunition container.

Seriously, this is the size of a typical assault cannon ammo box:

http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/images/dark_angel_assault_cannon_large.jpg?osCsid=fos7vk7 ogilerivo85pdfcrin4

This just came up with my Truscale Bjorn model. I hadn't even thought about it but now I'm mapping a way to rework the model to have a serious ammo hopper. :)

[YorkNecromancer]

so you're cool with the fact that the collective human empire builds space ships that dwarf continents and contain munitions to completely eradicate all life on a planet. They then fly these through a realm of nightmare made real to cross the galaxy. Upon reaching their destination, they shoot giant space-bullets at the ground. These space bullets impact the earth and disgorge their contents - genetically enhanced super-soldiers, wearing high-tech battle armor equipped with all sorts of neat target-finders, sensors and communications devices. These warriors un-sling their armaments - veritable cannons that fire rounds so large they can punch through battle-tank armor - and then charge headlong into the enemy, where they can punch them in the face repeatedly with oversized, glowing gloves?

OF COURSE I AM THAT'S ALL PERFECTLY FINE, IS UTTERLY JUSTIFIABLE BASED ON REAL WORLD TECHNOLOGY AND MAKES COMPLETE AND TOTAL SENSE. I HAVE LITERALLY NO IDEA HOW ANYONE COULD POSSIBLY FAIL TO FIND ANY OF THESE THINGS CONVINCING OR BELIVABLE IN ANY WAY.


You're cool with that, but the fact that the assault cannon's ammunition hopper is a bit small breaks your suspension of disbelief?

THAT WAS THE GIST OF MY ARGUMENT, YES.

It's just silly is what I'm saying. No one could believe it. It stretches credibility.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I think everyone has a niggle that can interrupt a good universe they're interested in. For example, I used to love Harry Potter until I thought about how the wizards withhold magic and all the benefits it can bring from humanity at large, and slowly began to hate them as a result.

There's a lot of things I think are pretty dumb in 40K, but I simply ignore them and appreciate that they draw others in. I think I have the strangest love-hate relationship with GW vehicles. Vehicles like the Valkyrie, Storm Talon and Leman Russ look excellent, proportion and aerodynamics be damned! However, I just really dislike the box-on-wheels/wings look that Space Marines roll with. It always feels a little hypocritical that I point out how damn silly the Storm Raven looks while my 30-foot high mech suit jetpacks around the battlefield.

[This Dave]

Yes but maybe it fires the whole bullet, that's 65% more bullet.



Well don't forget they were designed in the UK and heating tea has been an important part of the British Army's kit since we had access to tea.

True, I believe it's the Challenger tank the British made that actually has a water heater in the turret so the crew can brew tea without leaving the tank.

Then again, we in the US Army pioneered the idea of cooking food and brewing coffee with C4 explosive I guess I can't say too much about it. :)

[Anggul]

so you're cool with the fact that the collective human empire builds space ships that dwarf continents and contain munitions to completely eradicate all life on a planet. They then fly these through a realm of nightmare made real to cross the galaxy. Upon reaching their destination, they shoot giant space-bullets at the ground. These space bullets impact the earth and disgorge their contents - genetically enhanced super-soldiers, wearing high-tech battle armor equipped with all sorts of neat target-finders, sensors and communications devices. These warriors un-sling their armaments - veritable cannons that fire rounds so large they can punch through battle-tank armor - and then charge headlong into the enemy, where they can punch them in the face repeatedly with oversized, glowing gloves?

You're cool with that, but the fact that the assault cannon's ammunition hopper is a bit small breaks your suspension of disbelief?

=)

naw, this is the same as "how does a space marine actually fit in his armor?" or "how would a Cadian fit inside a suit of space marine armor?" or "how do 10 space marines fit inside a rhino?" or "how is a tervigon able to gestate & hatch potentially 105 gants in a mater of minutes?", etc.

Yup.

All of those things are explained in-universe. The warp is a parallel dimension that doesn't abide by the laws of our universe, anything can happen.

The assault cannon and various other things are supposed to work mechanically but obviously don't.

[Faultie]

You worry about ammo when the barrels don't actually line up with the firing chamber?
Oh damn, now I can't not-see that! Now it really looks like it would just sit there and wirr.

[This Dave]

How does a Russ Demolisher even work? That's another biggie, that turret is tiny for such a large round. Not to mention the Punisher, though it is said that gunners using it only fire it in minute bursts and gut the tank out to pack spare ammo in.

Hell, even the numble Bolt Pistol makes no sense.

I don't worry about that quite as much as how a Bolt Pistol with a huge magazine in front of the trigger can fit into those tiny normal looking holsters the Marines have.

[DWest]

I don't worry about that quite as much as how a Bolt Pistol with a huge magazine in front of the trigger can fit into those tiny normal looking holsters the Marines have.
I rather assumed the holster-type bolt pistol was more of an emergency back-up weapon (maybe a 5 shot internal magazine?) as opposed to the "I actually intend to use this" pistols the Assault Marines get.

[Wolfshade]

Then again, we in the US Army pioneered the idea of cooking food and brewing coffee with C4 explosive I guess I can't say too much about it. :)

Coffee, how positively barbaric...

Crews will always exploit any heat source for their own requirements, back in steam locomotives it was not uncommon to have two shovels. One for coal, the other for bacon, eggs, sausages etc. and a tin kettle full of water etc.

[Psychosplodge]

I think everyone has a niggle that can interrupt a good universe they're interested in. For example, I used to love Harry Potter until I thought about how the wizards withhold magic and all the benefits it can bring from humanity at large, and slowly began to hate them as a result.



Thanks for ruining Harry Potter for me :mad:


True, I believe it's the Challenger tank the British made that actually has a water heater in the turret so the crew can brew tea without leaving the tank.

Then again, we in the US Army pioneered the idea of cooking food and brewing coffee with C4 explosive I guess I can't say too much about it. :)

I don't think its unique to the challenger, think its a feature across the armoured vehicle range.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Thanks for ruining Harry Potter for me :mad:

I have the amazing power to ruin Harry Potter for people by bringing that up. You'd be amazed at how outright furious people get while defending it, though. Especially when they bring up the Witch Hunts and I point out that wizards had a Fire-Freezing Spell that rendered witch-burning so ineffective some of them deliberately let themselves get captured repeatedly because it tickled.

Anyway, a conversation for another time/thread. :P

As far as the bivvy, as much as I love the stereotype of Brits building a teapot into their main battle tanks, it also serves an essential use for sterilising water and providing hot water for various ration packs and stuff. However the tea brewing is paramount, apparently during the incident where a Challenger II got stuck in a ditch and was attacked with RPG fire for 7 hours, the crew sat inside drinking tea while listening to the patter of small arms fire with the occasionally metallic thud of an RPG-7 bouncing off the ERA.

That image is forever and always the reason why the Challenger II is best tank. You can weather anti-tank fire for hours in it, and you can enjoy a nice cuppa while you do so.

[Wolfshade]

As far as the bivvy, as much as I love the stereotype of Brits building a teapot into their main battle tanks, it also serves an essential use for sterilising water and providing hot water for various ration packs and stuff. However the tea brewing is paramount, apparently during the incident where a Challenger II got stuck in a ditch and was attacked with RPG fire for 7 hours, the crew sat inside drinking tea while listening to the patter of small arms fire with the occasionally metallic thud of an RPG-7 bouncing off the ERA.

That image is forever and always the reason why the Challenger II is best tank. You can weather anti-tank fire for hours in it, and you can enjoy a nice cuppa while you do so.

Awesome.

Also reason #2, longest range confirmed tank on tank kill.

[Psychosplodge]

Also only ever lost one and that was to another challenger 2.

[Mr Mystery]

True, I believe it's the Challenger tank the British made that actually has a water heater in the turret so the crew can brew tea without leaving the tank.


Nope. It's not for brewing tea.

It's actually located behind a strategic weakspot in the turret armour. A weakspot we have let everyone else know about.

The purpose of this is to make the Tank crew truly beserk when their tea brewing capacity is taken away from them.

- - - Updated - - -


I have the amazing power to ruin Harry Potter for people by bringing that up. You'd be amazed at how outright furious people get while defending it, though. Especially when they bring up the Witch Hunts and I point out that wizards had a Fire-Freezing Spell that rendered witch-burning so ineffective some of them deliberately let themselves get captured repeatedly because it tickled.


And how come Harry, around the age of what, 13-14, and being in secondary school, had no distracting spells to fling at Voldermort when he was duelling Dumbledore in the Ministry of Magic? I'm pretty sure a long ranged purplenurple, noogie, wedgie, pill-flick or even chinese burn would have tipped things in Dumbledore's favour neatly. You'd think every wizard school boy would have picked those cantrips up on their first day?

[Aldavaer]

Running with the built in tea making facility for the heavy bolter.

When the Israeli Defence Force designed the Galil assault rifle, based heavily on the AK47; one addition was a bottle opener to stop jams caused by troops using the edge of the magazine receiver to open bottles and bending it.

[Mr Mystery]

Running with the built in tea making facility for the heavy bolter.

When the Israeli Defence Force designed the Galil assault rifle, based heavily on the AK47; one addition was a bottle opener to stop jams caused by troops using the edge of the magazine receiver to open bottles and bending it.

Actually sounds like a fairly sensible idea.

[This Dave]

Running with the built in tea making facility for the heavy bolter.

When the Israeli Defence Force designed the Galil assault rifle, based heavily on the AK47; one addition was a bottle opener to stop jams caused by troops using the edge of the magazine receiver to open bottles and bending it.

That was combined with the bipod that could be used as a wire cutter for getting through barbed wire. The Swiss Army knife of rifles!

[Arkhan Land]

add on a muzzle brake that can fit an m1-grenade adapter and there you are shooting limes and lemons at 70 fps at the cops

[CoffeeGrunt]

Combustible lemons?

[Arkhan Land]

nope standard supermarket. I do believe concealing explosives in household items and food products is banned by international law

[Gingerpanda]

I always wondered how on earth a Razorback worked as a transport vehicle when the drive motor and the ammo feeds/power supply for the the Heavy bolters/Lascannons when you consider that it would be fitted near the exit ramp of the Razorback. :)

[crandall87]

GW Eventually got it right(ish)

11092

[Lee D Boosey]

The thing that bothers me most is other Imperial forces using bolt guns and pistols that are designed to be used by 8ft super humans in power armour. After all these weapons in the hands of your average sized human would be bloody huge and quite unwieldy. And if the Mechanicus actually make them in more human sizes, which we can assume they do, for the likes of the Adeptus Sororitas then they would in fact have to be a much less powerful version than the standard ones issued to the Astartes surely.

[bravofour]

Well if you consider the standard grenade round of a MRk-19 or 203 grenade launcher as the size and kick of a bolter, its not unreasonable for a normal human to carry such a weapon.

Now my biggest issue within 40K is the track system for the imperial guard. Most of the tanks have no boogie system for traversing rough ground. the Russ on anything besides from a flat surface, would have traction issues as well as being a very rough ride. At least the Rhinos have some road clearance and a boogie system that would allow for cross country travel.

[LTKlaudius]

This is like two cavemen arguing about how laser guns can be put on a satellite.
In 40000 years the technology will not even use the same math principles you know.
With infinite technology comes infinite artistic possibilities.
You are working with magic that far in the future. Dont try to understand it. Anything is possible :)

[This Dave]

The thing that bothers me most is other Imperial forces using bolt guns and pistols that are designed to be used by 8ft super humans in power armour. After all these weapons in the hands of your average sized human would be bloody huge and quite unwieldy. And if the Mechanicus actually make them in more human sizes, which we can assume they do, for the likes of the Adeptus Sororitas then they would in fact have to be a much less powerful version than the standard ones issued to the Astartes surely.

That's actually explained in the 40K RPGs from Fantasy Flight. The ones for Marines are in fact more powerful and if a normal human tries to use one they'll probably injure themselves in the process. But in the scale of tabletop 40K the difference isn't great enough to see a difference.

- - - Updated - - -


Well if you consider the standard grenade round of a MRk-19 or 203 grenade launcher as the size and kick of a bolter, its not unreasonable for a normal human to carry such a weapon.

Now my biggest issue within 40K is the track system for the imperial guard. Most of the tanks have no boogie system for traversing rough ground. the Russ on anything besides from a flat surface, would have traction issues as well as being a very rough ride. At least the Rhinos have some road clearance and a boogie system that would allow for cross country travel.

Don't get me started again on the bucket of fail that is the Leman Russ tank. As much as I love them in game the models scratch the backs of my eyes with all the bad things to have on an armored vehicle.

[Moriar52]

with regards to the bolter feeds on the various types this has been explained by the fact that the ammunition is rocket propelled. two stage with a standard method of firing which activates the rocket propulsion so the barrel (apparently) doesn't need to be that long. with regards to the rhino if they built it to scale it would be the size of a land raider which would make the land raider about the size of a baneblade which would then make the baneblade the size of..... well you get the picture. the assault cannon and all the other gatling weapons that have that mechanism exposed has been a niggle for me for a while (ever since I saw the first one to be honest..... so pretty much since I started the hobby all those years ago.).
so have the tank tracks for the guard vehicles and the land raider. also with regards to tech don't forget they are actually regressing in some respects since the heresy as it is now a religion rather then a science

the way I look at it is similar to when I watch an action movie I sort of blank the bits out that are too ludicrous to be true and try to enjoy the film. unless it's something like Armageddon *shudder* and revenge of the fallen *retch*

[PaladinSL]

Pick up a Rhino.

Look at it.

Open the back hatch.

WHERE IS THE ENGINE?

[This Dave]

Pick up a Rhino.

Look at it.

Open the back hatch.

WHERE IS THE ENGINE?

In the sides of the thing right near the exhaust pipes. The same with the Chimeras and all its variants.

[helline9]

THE AMMO DRUM IS THE SIZE OF A CAR!

AND THAT WOULD LOOK AWESOME ON A TERMINATOR'S BACK!!!



i agree, will have to put empty paint-pots on the back of terminators now as ammo drums and mold up some ammo feeds! :)
...i don't think Dev' packs would fit a Termi'

[daboarder]

The thing that bothers me most is other Imperial forces using bolt guns and pistols that are designed to be used by 8ft super humans in power armour. After all these weapons in the hands of your average sized human would be bloody huge and quite unwieldy. And if the Mechanicus actually make them in more human sizes, which we can assume they do, for the likes of the Adeptus Sororitas then they would in fact have to be a much less powerful version than the standard ones issued to the Astartes surely.

not really, the calibre is the same and being self propelled and explosive its doubtfullt eh muzzle velocity has a major effect on the velocity of the bullet when it reaches the target

- - - Updated - - -


Awesome.

Also reason #2, longest range confirmed tank on tank kill.

turns out rifling is still a good idea, heres looking at you abrams

[Andrew Thomas]

The thing that bothers me most is other Imperial forces using bolt guns and pistols that are designed to be used by 8ft super humans in power armour. After all these weapons in the hands of your average sized human would be bloody huge and quite unwieldy. And if the Mechanicus actually make them in more human sizes, which we can assume they do, for the likes of the Adeptus Sororitas then they would in fact have to be a much less powerful version than the standard ones issued to the Astartes surely.

In the canon, a Space Marine is 2 meters tall out of armor, where the average European adult tends to be around 5'8", 175 lbs. 2M≈6'7". My father, who is 6'7" and muscular, can handle a .22 pistol without suffering much Homer Simpson Syndrome. And while your typical Astartes-Grade bolter is chambered for a .75 caliber round, in the books, smaller bolter rounds exist. A bolt is rather simple, as far as construction is concerned, so keeping relative stopping power and range is not an issue. Additionally, most of the weight in the Bolter, apart from the Magazine, is devoted to biometric security, fire-control hardware, range and target acquisition, and the Mag-Lock system to secure it to their armor. Even if the trigger mechanism on the Astartes bolter is sized more generously then that of a mundane, Munitorum-issue weapon, the difference in usability would be negligible.

[Andrew Thomas]

So 40K is built on over the top imagery, and I can accept most of it as just that. But the one thing that totally stops me from suspending my disbelief?

Any time a gun with gatling barrels is on a model without a significant ammunition container.

Seriously, this is the size of a typical assault cannon ammo box:

http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/images/dark_angel_assault_cannon_large.jpg?osCsid=fos7vk7 ogilerivo85pdfcrin4

Compare it to the size needed for a modern gatling gun:

http://www.liveactionfx.com/Images/Pictures/minigun2.gif

The ammo pack is bigger than the gun! And that backpack would give you exactly five seconds of firepower!

Then compare it to something 40K sized - the avenger cannon off an A-10 tankbuster...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg/800px-GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg

THE AMMO DRUM IS THE SIZE OF A CAR!

AND THAT WOULD LOOK AWESOME ON A TERMINATOR'S BACK!!!

http://www.angelfire.com/on2/snakesdomain/images/raven.jpg

I'm just saying...
Panniers, and smaller, denser bullets, likely a depleted heavy metal with better penetration. Possibly self-sharpening and/or pyrophoric. Plus that gun has to be about a meter and half long. Might even use a transverse feed mechanism, like a P-90 (OK, maybe a stretch).

[CoffeeGrunt]

Worth noting that Heavy Weapons Team Lascannons are massive compared to the ones Astartes carry on their shoulders, and yet have identical stats.

[Psychosplodge]

Pick up a Rhino.

Look at it.

Open the back hatch.

WHERE IS THE ENGINE?



To the left of the driver.

[daboarder]

Rhinos have 2 crew

[Psychosplodge]

yeah but he's hanging out the hatching manning the stormbolter

[Path Walker]

Everyone knows that Imperial vehicles and weaponary are powered by unshakeable faith in the Emperor

[matgc]

What about the space marine pistol holster?

11100

Put it besides a bolt pistol, and you'll see that is no way it is holding one of those. It gotta be something else, much smaller. But space marines don't carry pistols smaller than these. Makes no sense.

[Arkhan Land]

In the center of the chimera there is a power supply and an energy converter which is sent to the moving parts in each side wall, it is specifically noted that chimeras are made to run on a wide range of energy sources so long as they can be made into electrical current. IA 1

the rhino is a bit weirder where there truly is a small amount of engine stuff up front, by the driver and right behind him is a "generator" about the size of a 3 liter bottle that somehow runs the whole damn show (IA 2)

I Arkhan Land am respobsible for about lets say 45% of this nonsense and I spent my whole life looking for and died trying to find even more nonsense

[Psychosplodge]

But was it an intelligent mem virus that got you?

[Wolfshade]

Don't forget that the allied were not concerned about rockets from the axis powers because "it was impossible to build an engine that small", then the V2s...

[Andrew Thomas]

Worth noting that Heavy Weapons Team Lascannons are massive compared to the ones Astartes carry on their shoulders, and yet have identical stats.
Yeah, but AM infantry don't carry high efficiency microreactors on their backs, so at a minimum, they'd need a high-capacity power pack to power an MP Lascannon, if not a portable power generator, especially if they aren't holed up in an ammo dump or power plant.

- - - Updated - - -


What about the space marine pistol holster?

11100

Put it besides a bolt pistol, and you'll see that is no way it is holding one of those. It gotta be something else, much smaller. But space marines don't carry pistols smaller than these. Makes no sense.
Limitations in sculpting? You could always bulk it out with plastic card and/or Green Stuff.

[Takerukau]

I can't say that it bugs me all that much. Keeping in mind that we are playing a game with guns and space-wizards, ammo belts tend to fall pretty low on my list of "things I pay attention to" lol

[Darren Richardson]

What about the space marine pistol holster?

11100

Put it besides a bolt pistol, and you'll see that is no way it is holding one of those. It gotta be something else, much smaller. But space marines don't carry pistols smaller than these. Makes no sense.

I've always imagined it to be a One-Shot Bolt Pistol, similar to a single shot flare pistol....

[Mr Mystery]

I've always imagined it to be a One-Shot Bolt Pistol, similar to a single shot flare pistol....

My old Inquisitor character (from the game of the same name) had one like that.

Custom designed ruleswise, and inspired by a gun carried by Lance Henriksen in a Jean Claude Van Damme film - seemed a one shot Bolt weapon for executions was the very dab for the debonair/psychotic Inquisitor about Town.

[Brakkart]

I don't think its unique to the challenger, think its a feature across the armoured vehicle range.

true. The BV or Boiling Vessel (nicknamed the bivvie) is a feature unique to the armoured vehicles of the British Armed Forces. It can be found in quite a few of them, including the mighty Challenger 2 as well as the equally awesome AS90 self-propelled gun (which seriously needs a better name). From wikipedia:


The "Vessel Boiling Electric" or "BV" was an innovation at the very end of World War II, when the Centurion tank was introduced with the device fitted inside the turret.[2][3] Previously, British tank crews had disembarked when they wanted to "brew-up" (make tea), using a petrol cooker improvised from empty fuel cans[4] called a "Benghazi burner".[5] Use of the BV enabled the crew to stay safely inside the tank and reduced the time taken for breaks.[6]

The first version, known as VBE No 1, began to be replaced in the early 1950s by the stainless steel No 2 version. A VBE No 3 had improved electrical sockets and was less prone to leakage. Besides being fitted to every tank designed since the Centurion, in the 1960s, the BV was fitted to the FV432 armoured personnel carrier for the benefit of the infantry carried on board. It is now fitted to almost every major type of vehicle used by the British Army.

The principle use of the BV is to heat ration pouches; the hot water is then used for making drinks. The BV has recently been designated "Cooking Vessel FV706656" or "CV". It runs off the 24 Volt electrical system of the vehicle and is manufactured by Electrothermal Engineering Ltd in Rochford, Essex. Vehicles fitted with the BV include Challenger 2 tanks, MAN trucks, and Warrior, Warthog, Mastiff, Jackal and Foxhound armoured fighting vehicles.

Don't mess with the British Army, not only can we destroy your land forces but we can have a brew and a hot meal while we do it, all without having to leave our vehicle!

EDIT: Did a little more reading on it and turns out that other armed forces around the world have started to adopt the idea as BV's have been added to M1 Abrams tanks and Bradley APC's in the States and various other countries have begun adding them to their armoured vehicles too.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Ugh, bet those bloody Yanks use it for making gritz or some other dross. Pip-pop, those bloody colonial savages!

[Halollet]

OP

So something more like this would work for you?

http://x4.fjcdn.com/comments/Where+is+Edward+s+Big+Tittied+Police+Girl+_697b55b b6e9bae7916a6bdc83262ad2b.jpg

[CoffeeGrunt]

Oh Anime, your conservative realism is endlessly entertaining. :P

[Andrew Thomas]

I can't say that it bugs me all that much. Keeping in mind that we are playing a game with guns and space-wizards, ammo belts tend to fall pretty low on my list of "things I pay attention to" lol

Amen to that.

[Psychosplodge]

OP

So something more like this would work for you?

http://x4.fjcdn.com/comments/Where+is+Edward+s+Big+Tittied+Police+Girl+_697b55b b6e9bae7916a6bdc83262ad2b.jpg

Well of course, and thats before she became really badass...

[Arkhan Land]

But was it an intelligent mem virus that got you?

sadly no, Life below Mar's surface is just too harsh, when I tell people that Ill die without coffee, they shouldnt laugh

[CoffeeGrunt]

sadly no, Life below Mar's surface is just too harsh, when I tell people that Ill die without coffee, they shouldnt laugh

I'm here for you senpai.

[Da Gargoyle]

I don't get it. The gun works because they believe it will. I know everyone thinks that is just Orks, but when the Chaplain is standing behind you saying what are you waiting for, small things like ammunition pale into insignificance.

In regards to the Rhino, have you never looked in an M113 personnel carrier. Basically a box on tracks and the inspiration for the Rhino I bet. The Aust army version carried a squad of grunts in the back, driver in the front, a turret on top with the commander in it and the engine in the front of the driver, transverse mounted. No BV though, they didn't want the grunts getting used to luxury. I wonder if the SM's have a straw attachment for their tea?

[Arkhan Land]

Space Marines are given the standard Eviscerator Pattern Camel Packs and Worldkiller Pattern Snickers Bars