Warhammer Forge - End Times causing the delay?

[Mr Mystery]

Just a bit of idle speculation really, and certainly I have bugger all to back it up beyond that....

So Warhammer Forge is apparently on the back burner, and has been for a while.

Could End Times be the cause? I mean it's a pretty major shake up of the lore, so it does make sense to hold development on spangles until the Design Studio had finished their grand plan.

Just a bit speculation like I said. Thoughts?

[lobster-overlord]

Didn't they announce that Warhammer Forge was going away in general due to lack of interest/sales compared to 40k ForgeWorld sales?

John M>

[MajorMcNicol]

Didn't they announce that Warhammer Forge was going away in general due to lack of interest/sales compared to 40k ForgeWorld sales?

John M>

I had not seen/heard that

[eldargal]

Didn't they announce that Warhammer Forge was going away in general due to lack of interest/sales compared to 40k ForgeWorld sales?

John M>

Well, they said it was going away because they were focusing more on HH.

[Mr.Pickelz]

HH series is pretty much taking up all of Forgeworld's resources, between all the ideas and models they are making for that timeline, Forgeworld should be called H.H. World. 40k kits aren't exactly getting made either. Most of the Space Marine stuff is interchangable with 40k stuff, so I guess they kinda get away with it for that faction, but for Xenos... Nope.

[Wildeybeast]

People didn't buy much of the Warhammer stuff because it was either big monsters/war machines, so they only needed one of those, or command groups, which were way too expensive for most people to stomach (£30 for three models). Put simply, what they were making wasn't selling enough to make it worthwhile continuing, whereas people apparently couldn't get enough of the HH stuff. I think that decision was probably made before the End Times was started.

[Darren Richardson]

People didn't buy much of the Warhammer stuff because it was either big monsters/war machines, so they only needed one of those, or command groups, which were way too expensive for most people to stomach (£30 for three models). Put simply, what they were making wasn't selling enough to make it worthwhile continuing, whereas people apparently couldn't get enough of the HH stuff. I think that decision was probably made before the End Times was started.

yeah that may be the case, but they didn't have to discontuine the entire scenery range as well!

That IS something that is more likely to sell over a long term, as every Warhammer general needs terrain to fight over, I really wanted to get some of their village pieces.

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah, it's a shame, but what can we do? At least Warhammer is getting some love in one form, I was seriously worried that they were scaling things back after the wood elves. It remains to be seen how much support armies get in terms of models, but at least people are buzzing about it again.

[Learn2Eel]

Just to add to the discussion, the Monstrous Arcanum book disappeared on or before Saturday - just on the day I went to order it too! :(
My local Games Workshop manager e-mailed them about it and the reply was this:


Hi, Thank you for your email. The Monstrous Arcanum book is currently unavailable and we have no immediate plans to reprint the book, in time, we will put out some pdf's for the rules of the monsters we have released as models on to our website.

So basically things like the Necrofex Colossus, Khemric Titan and so on are bung out of luck unless you already had the book. I'm really annoyed as I just spent $170 on different kits to convert a Nightmare Colossus (the bigger version of the Necrofex), hopefully I am able to work out a compromise as I am going to be royally pissed if I am not able to use the conversion as what it was intended to be.

[Darren Richardson]

see, this is why Forgeworld are behind the times regarding their books, they should have digital copies available by now.

[Mr Mystery]

Just to add to the discussion, the Monstrous Arcanum book disappeared on or before Saturday - just on the day I went to order it too! :(
My local Games Workshop manager e-mailed them about it and the reply was this:



So basically things like the Necrofex Colossus, Khemric Titan and so on are bung out of luck unless you already had the book. I'm really annoyed as I just spent $170 on different kits to convert a Nightmare Colossus (the bigger version of the Necrofex), hopefully I am able to work out a compromise as I am going to be royally pissed if I am not able to use the conversion as what it was intended to be.

I has the book! And no it's not for sale!

[Morgrim]

See if someone can photocopy the relevant pages of their book for you? Given it's no longer for sale I can't see a reasonable opponent objecting.

[Tronzor]

The MA book was bundled with Tamurkhan over the summer, basically buy Tamurkhan, get MA for free, so I have a copy.

Forgeworld came out with an official statement saying that they were not getting rid of the Forge, but that they would essentially be waiting until the 30k series ran its course. They ended up putting models like the K'daii destroyer on hold. Over the summer they also discontinued the Empire Land ship due to issues with the current mould and the fact that the designers had left the studio.

30/40k is a huge market for them and they'd be dumb not to focus their resources there, it's what all the cool kids are rocking these days.

[Sven Miller]

See if someone can photocopy the relevant pages of their book for you? Given it's no longer for sale I can't see a reasonable opponent objecting.

I have the book, unfortunately i do not have a scanner but since this news has broken i will be posting all the rules from it, items, scenarios monster etc (cant remember whats all in it, might be confusing some bits with tamurkhan atm) i cant gaurentee itll be up anytime soon as i have work but i will work on it then post it on the forums when its done. its complete BS what forgeworld are doing.

[Wildeybeast]

You may want to drop Big Red a message first. I'm not certain, but there may be forum rules about wholesale posting of copyrighted material.

[flipchuck]

Getting back to the topic of the thread, I can understand why gammers are disipointed with Forge World Warhammer Fantasy stuff, even though I don't buy Forge World stuff. I agree when you guys say that forge world is making stuff for fantasy that no one buys that much. I'm an empire player and I don't have much need for large monsters. Nor do I care for the Steam Boat land machine (or whatever it is). The Command Group s cool but cost too much for what you get.

What Forge World should do is start doing what they used to do for 40k. That is, the conversion kits. They used to do (and I guess still do) conversion kits for different 40k units and different armies like the IG Harden Veteran kits with the shotguns and air breather masks etc...plus sholder pads for different space marine chapters. Baiscly, they did kits for regiments, chapters and units that were inthe rule books and background fluff but no actual GW models.

They could start doing the same for Warhammer Fantasy. Start off with a magical weapons converion kits based on the magical weapons and items from the common magical weapons list from the rule book. Make so that the magic items could glue on any race. Also a kit for the common magical standards.

Then make race only (empire only, wood elf only) magical items from their army books (ie The Helmet of the Skavenslayer from the Empirea..etc). Then once those start to pick up, make models for the fluff inspired regiments for the different races the GW doesn't normally make. Heck, I would like to see Forge World make an Imperial Dragon for Karl Franz to ride into battle. The option in the army book is there but no actual model. And to convert with the GW models they have now, would cost more then a Forge World model or at least the same price but less hassle. Not all of us players have the mad conversion skills or money to do that.

[Wildeybeast]

It's an interesting idea, but I don't see it being anything like a success. The rule book clearly allows you to use any weapon as a 'counts as' for magic weapons, since they are all generic, so the number of people who will go out and buy them is very limited, especially when you get plenty of fancy champion weapons that you can easily kit bash. Most people simply won't bother.
Furthermore, how do you make them physically unique? What differentiates an ogre blade from a sword of striking and who actually cares? It's not like chapter logos or alternative heads/torsos where there are clear visual differences, already established in the back ground and art.
Lastly, there is the issue of cost. To get single weapons cheap enough to persuade anyone to buy them won't be worth the cost of designing them, never mind manufacturing and shipping. Who is going to pay more than a pound for a single hand weapon? You could sell them in bulk packets but then most people do not need more than two or three for a whole army.

The problem with conversion kits is that they work in 40k because so many of the models are wearing distinctive but if ethical uniforms, so it is both easy and desirable to have alternatives. Virtually every model in Warhammer is already fairly unique as the few models with what passes for uniforms are designed in such a way that you apply any paint scheme you like to distinguish them.

Btw, if you want KF on a dragon then just buy one of the elf ones. A FW one isn't going to be any cheaper, even if they did get round to making one.

[flipchuck]

Furthermore, how do you make them physically unique? What differentiates an ogre blade from a sword of striking and who actually cares? It's not like chapter logos or alternative heads/torsos where there are clear visual differences, already established in the back ground and art.
Lastly, there is the issue of cost. To get single weapons cheap enough to persuade anyone to buy them won't be worth the cost of designing them, never mind manufacturing and shipping. Who is going to pay more than a pound for a single hand weapon? You could sell them in bulk packets but then most people do not need more than two or three for a whole army.

The problem with conversion kits is that they work in 40k because so many of the models are wearing distinctive but if ethical uniforms, so it is both easy and desirable to have alternatives. Virtually every model in Warhammer is already fairly unique as the few models with what passes for uniforms are designed in such a way that you apply any paint scheme you like to distinguish them.

Btw, if you want KF on a dragon then just buy one of the elf ones. A FW one isn't going to be any cheaper, even if they did get round to making one.

For starters, you're right. Not everyone would bother with it but then again, not every player buys FW products in the 1st place. It would be for the player who was ts a little extra in their army. The ones who dont want 'count as'. As for making the weapons different, FW could make a kit with 3 different swords. Each with a different magic or rune symbol. Each have a different handle. It may still be a bit 'count as' but it will deffiently look like a magic weapon. Then do the same for maces, hammers and or axes.

It could be easier to do the magical standards. Each different standard would have a different picture etiched into it. For example A magical standard for causing fear could be a picture of a wailing banshee. And just FW could just do the flag part itself so it could attach to any standard.

Some of the magical may not be done like this but some could be.

As for Karl on a dragon, i have to buy the elven dragon kit plus the karl on Deathclaw kit. Both which i have order online now. A FW kit would be one kit only. Much easier. Even if i have to order online. And this way if i dont want left over elf models or a Deathclaw, i wouldnt have to worry about it.

Its a start and might work better then what FW has now.

[Wildeybeast]

The banners are a nice idea I'll grant you. I hadn't thought of them. But I just don't see there being any sort of market in the weapons, or them actually making GW any money. Certainly not enough to warrant them starting up the forge for.

[flipchuck]

With the magic weapons, its a crapshoot. It could work. Its worth a shot since it wouldn't cost much money to make since they are small and simple (compared to a large monster). It would be nice and cheap for players that want a little WYSiWYG in their models. The only magical looking weapons for the Empire are the Runefang and hammer in the general of the empire kit, flaming sword in the wizard kit and a unit champion in the great words kit. Each kit cost over $35.00. With the End of Times rules that allow 50 % lords and heroes, players will have more characters on the table that would want magical weapons. This would bea cheaper way ofgetting those weapons. Mind you FW shouldn't bank on it to make a lot of money but a cast to order style of sellingcould work. And that's just to start though.

How about haracter option and unit options that are in the army books but not in models? Karl on a dragon is an example but how about a warrior priest on a horse? FW could make those, they might sell more. Or a captian or general of the empire on a winged horse? The options are in the book but not as a model. Some of the special charcters have some options but are not as models. Like Karl. Having him on foot and not riding Deathclaw. That would be cool. Or karl on a warhorse. Have that as a kit, instead of a speical character that Fw creates but requires more sorce matieral that may that nbe offical and therefore not as playible. Just some ideas that could help FW warhammer....at least some of them are worth a shot.