2k Tournament Eldar

[JMichael]

I have a local tournament coming up and it will be my first tourney since 7th.
Interestingly my typical list is very similar to the Nova Open winner's list bit without the Swooping Hawks.
THe extra points I threw in the Vengenace Weapon platform to deploy next to an objective in my deployment zone. Holding it so the rest of my army can be mobile and work on the other objectives.
Extra 85 points, I decided to try out 1 unit of Swooping Hawks. The Autarch can help ensure they come on later and since they don't scatter can grab an out of reach objectice as well.

I also hope (and will reroll to get) the Warlord Trait '6' where deep strikers w/in 6" don't scatter. If I do, then one of the WraithKnights will deep strike after the Autarch speeds behind the enemy lines.

Comments, ideas, and criticism welcome!

HQ
Autarch - Banshee Mask, Fusion GUn

Elite
Fire Dragons x5
Wave Serpent - Scatter Laser, ShuriCannon, Spirit Stones, Holo-Field

Fire Dragons x5
Wave Serpent - Scatter Laser, ShuriCannon, Spirit Stones, Holo-Field

Troops
Dire Avengers x5
Wave Serpent - Scatter Laser, ShuriCannon, Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers x5
Wave Serpent - Scatter Laser, ShuriCannon, Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers x5
Wave Serpent - Scatter Laser, ShuriCannon, Spirit Stones

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks x5

Heavy Support
WraithKnight

WraithKnight

Night Spinner - Holo-Field

Fortification
Wall of Martyrs Vengeance Weapon Battery - Quad-Icarus Lascannon

[DarkLink]

No reason to deepstrike the Wraithknights for the sake of deepstriking the Wraithknights. Do it, and your expensive unit will spend at least one turn doing absolutely nothing for you, and it's not like they're already fast.

To be honest, a good rule of thumb is that if you're not in a drop pod, don't deepstrike. There are a few rare exceptions (Swooping Hawks are one, since they drop bombs and jump in and out of reserves), but there aren't many.

[JMichael]

No reason to deepstrike the Wraithknights for the sake of deepstriking the Wraithknights. Do it, and your expensive unit will spend at least one turn doing absolutely nothing for you, and it's not like they're already fast.

To be honest, a good rule of thumb is that if you're not in a drop pod, don't deepstrike. There are a few rare exceptions (Swooping Hawks are one, since they drop bombs and jump in and out of reserves), but there aren't many.

Its a fun thing to do, and my WraithKnights are mostly there to shoot armor and soak up fire to leave my Wave Serpents free to secure objectives.
I have only done it once and it took out a tank on the turn it arrived and then assaulted and killed Typhus among other units.
Deep Striking (only one of them) depends on my Warlord Trait and mostly my opponent and the mission/deployment type. By no means the point of my list.

[DarkLink]

Well, there's not much more to add. Kopach won nova with a (suspiciosly ;) ) similar list, so really you just need to play it well and it'll work for you.

[Katharon]

Yeah...it's practically the same NOVA list as Kopach's. What DL said, "play it well and it'll work for you."

[JMichael]

Well, there's not much more to add. Kopach won nova with a (suspiciosly ;) ) similar list, so really you just need to play it well and it'll work for you.

I said in my OP that it is very much like Kopach's NOVA list though, very similar to my lists since 5th edition. I've always enjoyed the full mech lists (and the Night Spinner is a must for me) as it allows me to effectively redeploy my whole army in 1-2 turns. Typical Eldar trickery and unpredictability! Though I usually take 4 7man DA squads in Wave Serpents.
I did take the Autarch w/no Seer support (I rarely keep units in reserves) and the Swooping Hawks from the NOVA winner.

I don't think Kopach's list is a great 'always winning' list, and other than the Swooping Hawks, nothing we don't all see normally. We are not playing NOVA missions, FAQs, or using their terrain setup. Just regular Rulebook missions. The Iyanden player that came in 2nd also had a wonderful list..
Wave Serpents are especially well tasked for claiming the Tactical Objectives of the Maelstrom missions.
We are not allowing Lords of War, but since Imperial Knights are not LoW I'm bringing the two WraithKnights to help deal with those.

[Dave Mcturk]

just moved up from 6th to 7th and three things occur to me.

since almost all units have objective secured is there much point in taking any more than two minimum avengers squads ? another unit of dragons gives much more versatility and better armour saves ? [you have an elite spot spare!]

not got my book with me but unless i'm missing something don't see the point of spirit stones in 7th ed - especially on serpents ?

i really see a huge added value on serpents - especially if they are dragon wagons - from taking ghostwalk - gets them onto drop point without any grief!

[Arkhan Land]

With my serpents I usually dont mix/match stones and holo, usually just pick one or the other for a grav group cause were either gonna be dodging em or taking the hits. Maybe usefull to have either or on the elites serpents as they cant grab objectives the same way and will be better suited for the movement bound holo save, but for the troops serpents ide take them stock and then invest the rest of those points into a few more men per squad. Always a good idea for the non-fearless/tougher eldar units and the serpents do have the room.

I would also like to add though ive had some mesmerizing moments of durability when having both stones/holos but usually only if its the ONLY serpent I take in the army

[JMichael]

just moved up from 6th to 7th and three things occur to me.

since almost all units have objective secured is there much point in taking any more than two minimum avengers squads ? another unit of dragons gives much more versatility and better armour saves ? [you have an elite spot spare!]

not got my book with me but unless i'm missing something don't see the point of spirit stones in 7th ed - especially on serpents ?

i really see a huge added value on serpents - especially if they are dragon wagons - from taking ghostwalk - gets them onto drop point without any grief!

In a Battle-Forged Combined Army Detachment only Troops choices have the Objective Secured rule. Though the unit AND their dedicated transport do!

I generally run both Spirit Stone and Holo-Fields on my Serpents. This helps keep the Fire Dragons alive and mobile long enough to take out their priority target. I tend to maneuver to utilize cover and being obscured (even if just by another Wave Serpent) and that's what the Holo-Fields are for. Not so much the Jink, but if I need too....

I usually run 7-8man Dire Avenger squads. Seems to be a good number. But I don't feel that taking out 3 Holo-Fields just to add 3 more Dire Avengers would be worth it.

The Swooping Hawks are my unknown. Inspired by the NOVA open winner, and wanting to try them out as a back field objective grabber (or to finish off a small unit). Removing them would allow larger Dive Avenger and/or Fire Dragon squads. Though only S3 shots, they are Assault 3. So 15 shots is enough to hopefully wipe out some small unit or maybe devastator squad that is secured in a ruin. Plus they do have Haywire grenades!

Originally my list had 1 Fire Dragon and 1 Wraithguard squad and a SpiritSeer. I swapped them out for the Autarch, 2nd Fire Dragons, and Vengeance Weapon Battery.

I always put Holo-Fields on my Night Spinners and keep them behind some 4+ cover. They are one of my favorite and most effective units.


Do you think the Swooping Hawks are worth it, or should I beef up my DA squads to 7man each?

[Dave Mcturk]

In a Battle-Forged Combined Army Detachment only Troops choices have the Objective Secured rule. Though the unit AND their dedicated transport do!

I generally run both Spirit Stone and Holo-Fields on my Serpents. This helps keep the Fire Dragons alive and mobile long enough to take out their priority target. I tend to maneuver to utilize cover and being obscured (even if just by another Wave Serpent) and that's what the Holo-Fields are for. Not so much the Jink, but if I need too....

I usually run 7-8man Dire Avenger squads. Seems to be a good number. But I don't feel that taking out 3 Holo-Fields just to add 3 more Dire Avengers would be worth it.

The Swooping Hawks are my unknown. Inspired by the NOVA open winner, and wanting to try them out as a back field objective grabber (or to finish off a small unit). Removing them would allow larger Dive Avenger and/or Fire Dragon squads. Though only S3 shots, they are Assault 3. So 15 shots is enough to hopefully wipe out some small unit or maybe devastator squad that is secured in a ruin. Plus they do have Haywire grenades!

Originally my list had 1 Fire Dragon and 1 Wraithguard squad and a SpiritSeer. I swapped them out for the Autarch, 2nd Fire Dragons, and Vengeance Weapon Battery.

I always put Holo-Fields on my Night Spinners and keep them behind some 4+ cover. They are one of my favorite and most effective units.


Do you think the Swooping Hawks are worth it, or should I beef up my DA squads to 7man each?


imo hawks are far inferior to spiderz, but i cant make a 4 up armour save for toffee :rolleyes:

i once ran [flew ?] three groups of hawks and spent the entire game chasing two hammerheads around the table - point for point it was worth it and very funny - but they are very situational and even 8 haywire attacks isnt a guaranteed vehicle kill!

again its fascinating how everyone has different tweaks they like - i suppose the logic of a 9 man avenger squad - other than slightly better firepower is a more certain morale position but i dont see how 7 is much better than 5 ? - after all the key to small squads is very often 'hideability' :D i really prefer max squads with the shield but they are obviously point heavy and very hard to keep out of trouble !

not yet tried the spinners in 7th - but my worry is they will have to jink and then cannot fire. - again my preference is to stick ghostwalk on them and hide and snipe and only come out to fry up if the enemy get too close to avoid.

[JMichael]

I've used the Night Spinner in almost every list since it came out in 5th. The new codex did nerf it a bit vs infantry, but being Str8 vs most vehicles is wonderful!
I always put Holo-Fields on it and keep it behind cover or at least obscured by another tank. If I do have to Jink, then I may just use the next turn to move flat out and get to a safer spot.

My list would've had 1 WraithKnight and 2 Night Spinners, but I expect to see many Imperial Knights in the Tournament and I need the extra punch.

[Dave Mcturk]

I've used the Night Spinner in almost every list since it came out in 5th. The new codex did nerf it a bit vs infantry, but being Str8 vs most vehicles is wonderful!
I always put Holo-Fields on it and keep it behind cover or at least obscured by another tank. If I do have to Jink, then I may just use the next turn to move flat out and get to a safer spot.

My list would've had 1 WraithKnight and 2 Night Spinners, but I expect to see many Imperial Knights in the Tournament and I need the extra punch.

i seem to remember the doomweaver weapon being reduced from base st7 to base st6 in a 7th ed faq. june 2014. perhaps a TO could confirm ?

[JMichael]

The Shadow weaver is in the GW Erratta/FAQ, but just updated the Ref page to match the description on p63 of the codex to have 'Blast' not 'Large Blast'.
The Doom Weaver (Night Spinner's weapon) is Str7, but the Monofiliment rule (p63) states that if the target has an Init of 3 or less (or no Init) then the attack gets +1 Str.
So even the Shadow Weaver and the Warp Spider's Death Spinners are Str7 vs most vehicles and anything else with Init 3 or less!

[JMichael]

Well 1st round of the tournament with that list and I tabled my MC Tyranid opponent.
Some crazy lucky rolls!
I went first and my Wave Serpents killed the Malanthrope (needed to secure First Blood) and then a WraithKnight's Heavy Wraithcannon Instadeathed his Dimachaeron! The other WraithKnight Instadeathed an Excorene!
Turn 2 and another WraithKnight's shooting insta killed a Carnifex.
Over the next few turns I just stayed along my table edge and my Wave Serpents chewed through his MCs and Hormogaunt and Termagant squads.
And in Turn 5 another lucky Heavy Wraithcannon shot hit the Swooping Tyrant and InstaDeathed it!
Then Scatter laser fire dropped his warlord Tyrant.
Tabled in turn 5!
I lost a single Fire Dragon to a sabotaged objective!

[JMichael]

I won the tournament with that list!
The Swooping Hawks are fun and I see the merit in taking 2 squads, especially for Maelstrom missions. They are just great at grabbing those distant objectives.
As usual the Wave Serpent's firepower proved overwhelming and light AV11 vehicles went down fast.

But mostly playing smart and objective minded instead of 'kill 'em all' is what won me the games. Keeping track on a turn by turn basis and speeding Wave Serpents out in later turns for quick, even sacrificial, objective grabs made the difference.

[Pssyche]

Well done!