GW's New Releases: A Positive Perspective

[Just_Me]

Everyone has been taken aback by the rapid-fire release (and re-release) schedule GW has been using with 7th edition, it's a big departure and sometimes feels a little rushed. As one who has always tried to own ALL of the current Codexes (for fluff and completeness as well as rules) I won't deny that the speed of these releases has given me pause. To add to my list of concerns, I would prefer to see some new models and I'm not particularly comfortable with the new layout.

However, if I take a step back and take a look at what's going on a big part of me is actually pretty hopeful. For starters it seems like, for the first time in decades we will have all of the Codexes updated to the current edition. That's huge and really pretty exciting. Having all the armies speaking the same "language" and starting (more or less) on par can only encourage more diversity.

I also can't help but be excited by the possibilities opened when they get everyone's book "caught up." They have recently shown themselves willing to add some new armies (albeit nothing radical as yet) in the form of the Militarum Tempestus, Knights, and (finally) an independent Inquisition, not to mention all of the supplements to specific armies. While we may lament the price tags that debate is frankly old hat that we have all heard and said time and again and, objectively, the sheer variety is exciting! This may be the dawn of a new age of freedom for them to create small but exciting introductions to the game, and/or return to cool little additions like Deathwatch Kill-Teams, Kroot Mercenaries, and Lost and the Damned. They even have the potential to introduce small "pocket-factions" in the same vein as the Militarum Tempestus, even adding whole new Xenos species or factions of the Imperium. We might see the things like the Hrud, Khrave, Eldar Exodites, Adeptus Arbites, etc.

Perhaps this is an overly optimistic view, but as someone who loves the hobby and loves the universe GW has created I would prefer to be hopeful.

[Azrell]

Everyone has been taken aback by the rapid-fire release (and re-release) schedule GW has been using with 7th edition, it's a big departure and sometimes feels a little rushed. As so one who has always tried to own ALL of the current Codexes (for fluff and completeness as well as rules) I won't deny that the speed of these releases has given me pause. To add to my list of concerns, I would prefer to see some new models and I'm not particularly comfortable with the new layout.

However, if I take a step back and take a look at what's going on a big part of me is actually pretty hopeful. For starters it seems like, for the first time in decades we will have all of the Codexes updated to the current edition. That's huge and really pretty exciting. Having all the armies speaking the same "language" and starting (more or less) on par can only encourage more diversity.

I also can't help but be excited by the possibilities opened when they get everyone's book "caught up." They have recently shown themselves willing to add some new armies (albeit nothing radical as yet) in the form of the Militarum Tempestus, Knights, and (finally) an independent Inquisition, not to mention all of the supplements to specific armies. While we may lament the price tags that debate is frankly old hat that we have all heard and said time and again and, objectively, the sheer variety is exciting! This may be the dawn of a new age of freedom for them to create small but exciting introductions to the game, and/or return to cool little additions like Deathwatch Kill-Teams, Kroot Mercenaries, and Lost and the Damned. They even have the potential to introduce small "pocket-factions" in the same vein as the Militarum Tempestus, even adding whole new Xenos species or factions of the Imperium. We might see the things like the Hurd, Khrave, Eldar Exodites, Adeptus Arbites, etc.

Perhaps this is an overly optimistic view, but as someone who loves the hobby and loves the universe GW has created I would prefer to be hopeful.

I somewhat share you view on this. However i had much of the same view going into 6th edition... than the DA codex happend, then they released 7th or as i like to call it 6.5

Also the 7th edition format for codices is downright mindbogglingly bad.

[Wildcard]

Before i can say anything positive towards rules or gameplay, i would like to know how waterproof is the GWs claim "first and foremost a model company" - as in what is the ratio random collectors buy versus those that actually play (even rarely).

That said, I 120% agree what Azrell said about the 7th edition format..

Also a rumor/claim/statement that has been floating around that "GW is planning of getting new unit out for each faction every once in a while".. Now, it all comes down to the implementation, but i'll be damned if i had to buy rules for that box of miniatures separately, yet alone buy a whole frigging box containing multiple different unit for different factions (like starterbox / those new 'story boxes') just to get that one new toy..

[MajorWesJanson]

No matter what you think about the new dataslate style format for codices (I don't mind them, just wish they used art instead of model pictures), they do make it much easier to add new units. Everything is on a single concise page (or gatefold for some units) so they can add it in White Dwarf (see Geranitus or the Ork Looted Wagon entry), or potentially a mini-booklet with the dataslate in a bunch of languages, like they did for the Vengeance Weapons Battery and ilk.

[Aegis]

I wonder if this will lead to a resurgence of Chapter Approved, in some form or another.

[silashand]

Also the 7th edition format for codices is downright mindbogglingly bad.

This. I have no idea who thought this was a good change, but they were obviously smoking something illegal IMO...

[daboarder]

Before i can say anything positive towards rules or gameplay, i would like to know how waterproof is the GWs claim "first and foremost a model company" - as in what is the ratio random collectors buy versus those that actually play (even rarely).


about as waterproof as a sponge if one actually READS their investor relations pages/ bussiness statements

[John Bower]

This. I have no idea who thought this was a good change, but they were obviously smoking something illegal IMO...

What's so bad? Not having to flick through pages of rules to find different bits for a unit; it's all on 1 or 2 pages now. More room for fluff (if that's your thing) and all the pertinent rules for a unit are there; no stats on 1 page, special rules on another and equipment on yet another like we used to see in 5th. You can find it all on 2 pages now; and all the special rules for the army are very easy to find at the back of the book if you need them quickly.

Personally I don't mind it. The new Ork codex is hands down better than the old one.

[Charon]

More room for fluff (if that's your thing) and all the pertinent rules for a unit are there

More room? Yes. Is that Room used? Looking at the recent GK codex with about 5 - 7 sentences of fluff per unit and comparing that to the Eldar codex with a full page of Fluff per unit, I dont see how it is "more".
The reson why the Orc codex is hands down better than the previous was is because it was what? 4th Edition?
Compared to earlier 6th or even late 5th edition it is lacking.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm also enjoying the rapid releases, as I am a committed hobby magpie. I like the shiney.

Currently, spangliest of all is of course Nagash, and volume 1 of The End Times. Currently up to page 101, and absolutely loving it.

And to think, just a couple of years ago the Interwebs were alive to people complaining about a slow release schedule. Now, it seems the eternal whiners have decided having now got what they asked, it's not what they wanted at all, and it should be slower...

[Charon]

And to think, just a couple of years ago the Interwebs were alive to people complaining about a slow release schedule. Now, it seems the eternal whiners have decided having now got what they asked, it's not what they wanted at all, and it should be slower...

How about a reasonable pace "in between"? Impossible? It must be either crawling or sprinting? 2nd Edition was the only Edition which managed to get every codex + (free) datasheets within one edition.
Every other edition was a chaos of outdated codices and incompatible rules. And while they started to sprint for 6th to 7th and try to rush out the remaining codices, 6th edition codex are not quite as compatible with 7th as the players would like to have (starting with PSI equipment). No problem as GW offers a regularly updated Errata and FAQ to... oh wait... they dont.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh there could be a happy middle ground for sure.

But I'd rather a rush of releases than a slow drip. Can make it tricky to keep up (I'm two books behind now), but I'd rather they were out there and updated than languishing with ancient Codecies as Necrons and Dark Eldar once did.

[Charon]

Sure... the rushed GK codex was amazing... so much new and exiting stuff...

[Mr Mystery]

One of the two I don't currently have (well, three if you count the Blood Angels Codex), so I can't make any kind of comment on that one.

However, does strike me that as an entirely psychic army, they were a bit of a priority for 7th Ed in general.

[Just_Me]

Once again, I do agree that I agree that a slightly slower pace (and maybe a few more creative additions/changes) would be preferable, and that the format is... questionable. However I think that, as a community, we do get too caught up in the nitpicking negativity sometimes. Even if the pacing isn't perfect it's exciting that we ARE getting everything updated, and after waiting for so long maybe faster isn't a bad thing.

The simple fact is that GW is never going to satisfy everyone, both their universe and us as a community are too diverse to make that realistic. The exciting thing (for me) is that they are showing that they are trying new things (not all of which are great). In the long run it makes me hopeful that they have an opportunity to really spice things up with new, fun, flavorful stuff like the old Chapter Approved used to. New characters, new units, new factions, new expansions; these things are now much MUCH more likely to become a reality.

In the end I figure we can either be upset that we aren't getting everything perfect, or we can look at a everything we ARE getting and the potential that we might get back some (or many) of the things we thought had disappeared (e.g. Knights) and even things we never thought we'd see.

[Lord-Boofhead]

How about a reasonable pace "in between"? Impossible? It must be either crawling or sprinting? 2nd Edition was the only Edition which managed to get every codex + (free) datasheets within one edition.

Someone forgot to tell the Squats,, Adeptus Arbites, Adeptus Mechanicus and the Grey Knights they had a codex, it will be news to them. ;)

- - - Updated - - -


Sure... the rushed GK codex was amazing... so much new and exiting stuff...

What did it need?

If they added new stuff folks would moan that the new stuff is over powered/underpowerd/looks stupid. They add nothing new, people moan that there isn't anything new.

[eldargal]

Yep it wasn't too long ago that people were complaining about every release needlessly inserting new units into books with retcons and whatnot and then when they don't GW are being lazy and it's soo reprehensible.:rolleyes:

[Arkhan Land]

In the information age where everything is available online via sharing sites this kind of release schedule doesnt bug me, everybody gets the new codex/rulebook in one form or another and slowly as the release continues people buy the legal/and or hard copy. In an era where this wasnt the case it could be way more brutal financially to stay abreast of all the releases GW does

[Mr Mystery]

In the information age where everything is available online via sharing sites this kind of release schedule doesnt bug me, everybody gets the new codex/rulebook in one form or another and slowly as the release continues people buy the legal/and or hard copy. In an era where this wasnt the case it could be way more brutal financially to stay abreast of all the releases GW does

I just buy a legal copy off the bat, mostly because although I am really rather special, the laws of the land and respect for those who put time, effort and money into producing something I want, still compel me not to be a thieving git :p

[DarkLink]

What did it need?

Only to update a few rules and upgrades to bring some units that had fallen by the wayside (Dreadknights, Brotherhood Champions, etc) up to speed. And, sure, it did that with a few units (Dreadknights, Librarians, and Terminators, mainly), but it also castrated basically everything else (Dreadnoughts, Grand Masters, Interceptors, Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Dreadnoughts). Plus when they removed half the codex (which was an ok thing, Inquisition and Assassins fit much better as an independent codex and dataslate respectively) they removed a number of key units that filled roles like, oh, anti-tank and cheap scoring units that were just a little bit important, and instead of giving GKs some new rules or tools to fill those now vacant gaps, they removed a lot of cool things like The Grand Strategy and didn't fill those roles.

So, sure, they didn't really need to add any new kits. On the other hand, being turned into a mono-build allied detachment for other armies is kind of annoying for people who actually like to play Grey Knights as actual Grey Knights. Both sides deserve the criticisms leveled at them, really. GW wrote a crappy book, but it isn't crappy in the ways that a lot of players have made it out to be.

- - - Updated - - -

The fluff is pretty cool, though. There's some entertaining stuff in there.

[Charon]

Yep it wasn't too long ago that people were complaining about every release needlessly inserting new units into books with retcons and whatnot and then when they don't GW are being lazy and it's soo reprehensible.:rolleyes:

Probably because retcon is a horrible tool and deserves a special place in hell next to deus ex machina?
There may be examples of good retcons where the basic story arcs where kept in place. That would be the whole HH story which is still true to the basic story but refines it and still manages to introduce "new-old" units. Also the Dark eldar retcon was absolutely amazing leaving the feel and mannerism intact.
They have a rich background and in most cases there is absolutely no need for a retcon. We still have TONS of units in the background (Slicing orbs, Warpspider Phoenixlord,...) which do not need ANY retcon at all. FW has done an amazing job with the Spectres and their Phoenixlord creating a meaningful Camapain and made it feel like the universe is alive and new stuff happens.
The GW approach is just squeeze it in the Background, add hyperboles, pretend it was always there and hope nobody notices.

So yes, the complaint of "needlessly inserting new units into books with retcons" is a valid one. They dont complain about new units but about stupid retcons when other styles of injecting units could have been easily utilized.

[Mr Mystery]

And the alternative would be stagnation, with a constant resculpting of existing models.

If you're objecting to Retcons, you'd best object to power armoured Grey Knights as well, seeing as they are something of a retcon in themselves.

[Charon]

And the alternative would be stagnation, with a constant resculpting of existing models.

That was not what I wrote. This is a stupid claim as I clearly provided other styles of injecting new units without resorting to retcon.


If you're objecting to Retcons, you'd best object to power armoured Grey Knights as well, seeing as they are something of a retcon in themselves.

Check your facts please. The first Terminators where introduced in Space Hulk. Grey Knights predate that.

[Mr Mystery]

So GK Terminators, and indeed the entire Chapter being equipped with it was the retcon.

As were all Aspect Warriors. Back in the days of Codex Titanicus, which as far as I'm aware introduced the first proper Eldar background (saving their souls up so they could all translate into the Warp as a single entity, birthing a new God and incorporating Slaanesh)? No Aspect Warriors. At all. At all at all. So best object to all Aspects, especially those Johnny Comelately Warp Spiders and Phoenix Lords (first showed up in Codex Eldar, and certainly for the Warp Spiders, possibly the Phoenix Lords, a WD article)

What else?

Space Marines being genetically modified to the extent they are no longer really human? Retcon.

Most of the Horus Heresy, and specifically Horus being a Primarch (and thus Primarchs themselves)? Retcon.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I think the models at least are roughly contemporary - about 1989. It's not the best example. Tigurius no longer being a half-Eldar, on the other hand, is certainly a retcon for the better.

[Arkhan Land]

I just buy a legal copy off the bat, mostly because although I am really rather special, the laws of the land and respect for those who put time, effort and money into producing something I want, still compel me not to be a thieving git :p

Rright off the bat I scope army lists, then pay honor to GW in form of buying neccesary kits/upgrades from them, then buying the codex when im ready to play with other people. otherwise ill prolly spend twice the time not playing, with the end results being the same.
Sometimes it aint worth it to rush out and grab it, kinda wished I had just waited till next year to get the nids codex as I prolly wont use it till I can do a few upgrades after a crazy winter of tours.

I guess as a sum-up Ide happily always go out and buy a new codex if it in some ways didn't heavily invalidate some units and boost the need of new kits. If GW does a better job this round and with all these hardbacks perhaps my mind will change.

[Charon]

So GK Terminators, and indeed the entire Chapter being equipped with it was the retcon.

As were all Aspect Warriors. Back in the days of Codex Titanicus, which as far as I'm aware introduced the first proper Eldar background (saving their souls up so they could all translate into the Warp as a single entity, birthing a new God and incorporating Slaanesh)? No Aspect Warriors. At all. At all at all. So best object to all Aspects, especially those Johnny Comelately Warp Spiders and Phoenix Lords (first showed up in Codex Eldar, and certainly for the Warp Spiders, possibly the Phoenix Lords, a WD article)

What else?

Space Marines being genetically modified to the extent they are no longer really human? Retcon.

Most of the Horus Heresy, and specifically Horus being a Primarch (and thus Primarchs themselves)? Retcon.

Again. How does this prove my point (retcon is a horrible style) wrong?
Retcon and Deus ex machina are "last resort" tools. When your storyline is so horribly ****ed up that you cant save it anymore. Not a your first pick because its "easier" to just pretend it never happened otherwise and create a huge **** up between codices.

[eldargal]

Saying 'here is a new vehicle you haven't encountered before' isn't a retcon. Adding new things information is not a retcon. People just like having something to whine about because they are petulant arseholes by and large. Get new units, whine, don't get new units, whine.

[Mr Mystery]

Again. How does this prove my point (retcon is a horrible style) wrong?
Retcon and Deus ex machina are "last resort" tools. When your storyline is so horribly ****ed up that you cant save it anymore. Not a your first pick because its "easier" to just pretend it never happened otherwise and create a huge **** up between codices.

It more proves how selective you're being about what is and isn't a good retcon.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I like how a thread about positivity descended into the same old arguments we always have. Why do we have a discussion board for 40k? There's only ever one conversation.

Part of the reason I'm enjoying Nagash so much is that - my Eldar and a few other things aside - it's convincing me ever more that sidestepping into Fantasy as my primary game is a good idea. The 40k community drives me up the wall.

[eldargal]

It's funny 'cos I've been playing a lot more WFB since Codex: Eldar was released (it's a good book, I just can't play the lists I want to) and now I'm even more enthusiastic because of End Times.:)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I went all-in with Ghost Warriors using the Iyanden book; have all the stuff for the dataslate formation and converted a Spiritseer coven out of Dark Elf models (the cauldron of blood crew). I'll get some pictures up at some point. I like that army a lot.

[daboarder]

I like how a thread about positivity descended into the same old arguments we always have. Why do we have a discussion board for 40k? There's only ever one conversation.


This goes both ways mate, the "positive side" is never anything but shouting the love of all things GW loudly, Even if its the exact opposite of what GW was doing last week.

The arguement is always
"the new direction/codex split/fluff makes complete sense. Even though I didn't bring this up before because I must remain 100% positive all the time"

OR

" The New Direction is so retro, I love it despite my high praises for the old direction last week because I must remain 100% positive all the time"

[eldargal]

Not really. There is plenty of nuanced discussion about where GW needs to improve it's just it gets lost in 'WAAAAAAAH MY ARMY ISN'T EVERYTHING I WANTED IT TO BE, GW R EVIL!' and 'NUH UH UR EVIL!' type discussions.

[daboarder]

Not really. There is plenty of nuanced discussion about where GW needs to improve it's just it gets lost in 'WAAAAAAAH MY ARMY ISN'T EVERYTHING I WANTED IT TO BE, GW R EVIL!' and 'NUH UH UR EVIL!' type discussions.

Expect anytime someone mentions anything they are "eternally negative"

EDIT: And its ALWAYS the same posters which are ready to level the claim of anything not a 100% positive review being just the poster and "masses" hating GW

[eldargal]

Some people are eternally negative though, like legitimately they whine at everything no matter what. I mean you talk about people being positive all the time at least hat is ****ing healthy, it's a damned hobby afterall. If GW were causing me to be so grumpy that I felt compelled to complain as much as some people I'd just stop playing. I wasn't enjoying 40k much anymore so I stopped playing and started playing more WFB and just focused on painting and terrain building for 40k.

[daboarder]

Some people are eternally negative though, like legitimately they whine at everything no matter what.

sure, fine and they should get called on it just as much as those who are eternally positive, but Smurfs post above is just the other side of that coin he's being as bad as those he's whining to the high heaven about

[eldargal]

No, because peopel who are eternally positive are at least enjoying their ****ing hobby and not making themselves and otehrs miserable.

I became dissatisfied with 40k so I stopped. EldarGal has stopped playing Eldar. You don't see me whining about it though do you, because at the end of the day it's a hobby and I just want to have fun so if I'm not it is time to focus on something else.

[daboarder]

No, because peopel who are eternally positive are at least enjoying their ****ing hobby and not making themselves and otehrs miserable.

And yet I never see them in the hobby forum, involved in the tactis forum, or in proposing other ways to play the game, they just spout the same old in general constantly, so I dont know what basis you can decide who is enjoying the game or not based solely on general.

edit: And yeah about half the posters here probably find the eternal optimism makes them miserable, so thats also a thing

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I wouldn't describe what I see on this board as "eternal optimism". I know that some of the accusations of pessimism are overdone too; what gets me is the sheer repetitive nature of all these discussions. A bunch of people think there's Another Side who are wrong and don't listen; a bunch of other people think it's That Side who are wrong and don't listen. We never get anywhere. It's just always back and forth, back and forth, the same.

I enjoy this game. I like painting armies. I play games when I can. I like reading the books. I'm not a very good player, but I'm okay with that. I like models I like; I have reservations about models I have reservations about. I get excited by new things and big events. I hope everyone has fun with the things they have fun with. That's me. I'm out.

[eldargal]

So? Hobby plogs take time and dedicated and the tactics forum is a cesspool of ****wittery.

People who are made miserable by others peoples enjoyment of the hobby are ****ing idiots and should re-examine their life.

[daboarder]

I wouldn't describe what I see on this board as "eternal optimism". I know that some of the accusations of pessimism are overdone too; what gets me is the sheer repetitive nature of all these discussions. A bunch of people think there's Another Side who are wrong and don't listen; a bunch of other people think it's That Side who are wrong and don't listen. We never get anywhere. It's just always back and forth, back and forth, the same.

I can agree with this, its probably why I'm spending less time in general these days

[Charon]

People who are made miserable by others peoples enjoyment of the hobby are ****ing idiots and should re-examine their life.

Not by their enjoyment. But by their mindset of "I like it and so everybody has to and if you dont you are a ****ing ******* that should rethink his life"

Im not beeing negative when I say I like additions more than retcons. Or that I outright despise bad reboots (for me necrons had a strong theme in being soulless ancient silent mystery machines and not pokemon ctan wielding space tomb kings). But these "everything they do is brilliant and you just want to whine" is getting tiresome.

[eldargal]

Sure, and that kind of attitude isn't helpful because we still need to be critical fans and offer constructive feedback.

[Path Walker]

Not by their enjoyment. But by their mindset of "I like it and so everybody has to and if you dont you are a ****ing ******* that should rethink his life"

Im not beeing negative when I say I like additions more than retcons. Or that I outright despise bad reboots (for me necrons had a strong theme in being soulless ancient silent mystery machines and not pokemon ctan wielding space tomb kings). But these "everything they do is brilliant and you just want to whine" is getting tiresome.

Except that its the same people who do nothing but complain and whine about a hobby that others enjoy, you can't write anything positive about GW without the same people piping up and moaning, telling you you're wrong for enjoying the thing you do in your spare time. Its tiring.

When you tell people that if they're not enjoying thier hobby they should stop doing it, thats good advice, spending your free time doing something that makes you unhappy or angry is really not healthy.

Calling negative people out for simply being negative above all else isn't a bad thing, I enjoy my hobby, others enjoy their hobby, whiners who don't do anything but complain, often pointlessly and for the point of whining are telling people they're wrong to enjoy their hobby.

As an example of someone whining and moaning needlessly, Necrons wasn't a retcon, it was an addition.

They always had an egyptian flavour, they had scarabs and the leaders had wesekh collars. They have pyramids.

They were always Tomb Kings in Space.

They can still be the soulless ancient mystery machines because the new fluff opens up the possibility of different tomb wolrds being part of different dynasties, you want soulless ancient mystery machines? Ok, your army comes from a world where an accident wiped all personalities before they could be uploaded to the bodies. Done.

But now people who don't want the army to be soulless ancient mystery machines can also do what they want.

[40kGamer]

And the alternative would be stagnation, with a constant resculpting of existing models.

Or the introduction of entirely new races maybe... :cool:

I'm ok with some of the retcon they have had to do but some of it (Deathwing and Squats) I absolutely hate.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I don't understand the love of Squats. Squats weren't interesting. They were so "not interesting" that they haven't been in any material published after, like, what, 1993? At the absolute latest? They're gone. They haven't even been "retconned", they're mentioned in the appendix of the 6th edition book. If you have the rules and can find a willing opponent - or the models to represent another army - go ahead, it's your game, nobody at GW will stop you.

The Deathwing thing was a case of having two competing strands of background, and they decided to emphasise one above the other when properly codifying it. Or so Gav Thorpe says.

The other problem which cuts to the heart of the "retcon" idea is... Warhammer 40,000 is a setting, not a narrative. It *has* a narrative, and there are some instances of retroactive continuity - rolling back the Black Crusade certainly counts - but something like removing Squats from the game is not a "retcon". Adding in Centurions is not a "retcon".

[40kGamer]

I don't understand the love of Squats. Squats weren't interesting. They were so "not interesting" that they haven't been in any material published after, like, what, 1993?

The Deathwing thing was a case of having two competing strands of background, and they decided to emphasise one above the other when properly codifying it. Or so Gav Thorpe says.

Squats actually were interesting in the GW Epic game... at least back when Epic was still interesting. GW chose to never properly develop them in the 40k setting and I'll need to refresh my memory but I'm pretty sure they retcon'd portions of the 40k Squat involvement/history.

Regardless of why GW decided to toss Bill King's original Deathwing fluff it comes across as whitewashing. They literally took away the background that made Dark Angels interesting/different and turned them into another cookie cutter marine chapter. What is hilarious is that they have kept the Deathwing feather motif for no reason.

[Deadlift]

I find "Squats" interesting. Only because they were dead and buried before I started playing. What Mantic did with their Forge Fathers I really liked and I would be all over a similar army. Maybe Space Dwarfs are just not grim dark enough any more. But I was hopeful when the Tau / Demiurge starting doing the rounds. Alas it didn't happen.

[40kGamer]

Necrons wasn't a retcon, it was an addition. They always had an egyptian flavour, they had scarabs and the leaders had wesekh collars. They have pyramids. They were always Tomb Kings in Space.

Have to agree that they didn't retcon the Tomb King aspect but they did completely screw over the C'tan storyline. It is understandable from the standpoint of justifying C'tan in games but it was a huge fluff change.

As to all the negative/positive GW stuff... well I'm a Libra so I believe in balance... to achieve this I separately love the game while hating the company. Works quite well actually.

[40kGamer]

I find "Squats" interesting. Only because they were dead and buried before I started playing. What Mantic did with their Forge Fathers I really liked and I would be all over a similar army. Maybe Space Dwarfs are just not grim dark enough any more. But I was hopeful when the Tau / Demiurge starting doing the rounds. Alas it didn't happen.

I had hopes for a reimagining with the Demiurg too... still a possibility. :D

[Lexington]

They can still be the soulless ancient mystery machines because the new fluff opens up the possibility of different tomb wolrds being part of different dynasties, you want soulless ancient mystery machines? Ok, your army comes from a world where an accident wiped all personalities before they could be uploaded to the bodies. Done.
I'm always amazed at the frequency in which this argument gets played out, since it's based entirely on a misconception. The 3rd Ed. Necron book pretty well defined the Necrons as having a hierarchy of consciousness, with Lords' personalities remaining more or less intact, Immortals being a bit dimmer but certainly better off than the practically lobotomized Warriors, etc. Almost identical to the new canon, actually. It just wasn't well-illustrated in the C'Tan-focused Codex, and readers seem to have taken the fact that most Necrons were mindless to mean that they all were.

Really, the big retcon of the new Necron Codex was taking the C'Tan out of the picture in modern times. This removed the Necrons' motivations, leaving a race who've conquered death and scarcity, but seem to need to go wage enormous galactic wars for some reason.

[Charon]

I'm always amazed at the frequency in which this argument gets played out, since it's based entirely on a misconception. The 3rd Ed. Necron book pretty well defined the Necrons as having a hierarchy of consciousness, with Lords' personalities remaining more or less intact, Immortals being a bit dimmer but certainly better off than the practically lobotomized Warriors, etc. Almost identical to the new canon, actually. It just wasn't well-illustrated in the C'Tan-focused Codex, and readers seem to have taken the fact that most Necrons were mindless to mean that they all were.

Not quite..


"Only a few of the very strongest retained their intellect and even they were shadows of their former selves" from the 3rd edition codex. While yes some of them survived with some of ther intelligence intact it does not say "with their personalities intact" which is a huge difference.
This is a huge step to eccentric metal humans which they are now. But yes, the lack of purpose is far worse. For me personally the lack of fluff on one of the most epic story arcs between Necrons and Eldar (War in Heaven) was the final nail.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I think they felt that the C'tan stuff, which they'd been seeding thoroughly into everyone's background from late 3rd-4th edition, was distracting too much from the central conflict with Chaos. Worse, it was diminishing some of the mysteries and particularities of the other races' backgrounds, ie. that it was All Really the C'tan. There's some of that stuff still floating around, though.

Whatever you think of the change, that's probably the reason.

[Mr Mystery]

GW chose to never properly develop them in the 40k setting

Sort of

From the lips of the design studio staff at some Games Day yonks ago (possibly 1999?), their issue with Squats that they just couldn't get the fun of the Epic Squats into 40k.

And to a degree, I can see what they mean.

In Epic, Squats had lots and lots of big, honking Super Heavy vehicles. Land Trains, Colossus, Cyclops, all that stuff. But at the time (and one could argue still, even with the advent of Apocalypse and Escalation) 40k just couldn't do that justice, as the big stuff would pretty much be your army.

None of the efforts put in came up with results the design studio found pleasing, so it was knocked on the head. Seemingly permanently. But then, just ten short years ago, nobody would believe we'd get a Horus Heresy setting, complete with Primarchs!

[40kGamer]

Sort of

From the lips of the design studio staff at some Games Day yonks ago (possibly 1999?), their issue with Squats that they just couldn't get the fun of the Epic Squats into 40k.

In Epic, Squats had lots and lots of big, honking Super Heavy vehicles. Land Trains, Colossus, Cyclops, all that stuff. But at the time (and one could argue still, even with the advent of Apocalypse and Escalation) 40k just couldn't do that justice, as the big stuff would pretty much be your army.

None of the efforts put in came up with results the design studio found pleasing, so it was knocked on the head. Seemingly permanently. But then, just ten short years ago, nobody would believe we'd get a Horus Heresy setting, complete with Primarchs!

Yes indeed! With all of the design advances over the last 15-20 years there is always a chance that anything may make a reappearance. On the downside Squats would require even more reworking then the Dark Eldar did to bring them into the modern era so I don't expect the studio to put that kind of effort into them anytime soon... so many possibilities for the future! :D

[eldargal]

Necrons don't have an Egyptian flavour.><

[daboarder]

Stereotype

[Arkhan Land]

Necrons:
10996



Yes indeed! With all of the design advances over the last 15-20 years there is always a chance that anything may make a reappearance. On the downside Squats would require even more reworking then the Dark Eldar did to bring them into the modern era so I don't expect the studio to put that kind of effort into them anytime soon... so many possibilities for the future! :D

I think it could be started off with something as small as the tempestus release was, Infantry box, HQ, Vehicle dual build.
3 kits, codex, army. kitn kaboodle.

SO

Sqaut HQ In better than normal armour, alternate for sqaut heavier armour (the og exo)
Sqaut Infantry + Mole mortar as heavy weapon option.
Termite-Transport/Alternate Kamikaze Robot Explosive/Sapping Heavy Choice - take out all those strongholds
Mole mortar/Heavy weapons team sprue repack

if its going to be small production perhaps itll even be served up FW similar to the Mechanicus. I dont expect to see anything bigger than those three kits HQ INF TRANS

[Al Shut]

Whatever you think of the change, that's probably the reason.

I always thought the reason was that someone watched the Clone Wars cartoon and thought it was cooler than glimpses at the future from Terminator.

Although it is beyond me how anybody could seriously think that.

[Path Walker]

GW turned them into Tomb Kings in Space.

11014

In 1997.

[Demonus]

I wish the Tyranids would eat the Tau....

[40kGamer]

I think it could be started off with something as small as the tempestus release was, Infantry box, HQ, Vehicle dual build.

Good point. That could work and would take very little effort. Bringing termites into 40k would be cool and go well with the whole mining theme. :)

- - - Updated - - -


I wish the Tyranids would eat the Tau....

:D

[This Dave]

I wish the Tyranids would eat the Tau....

All right thinking people do. :)

[Lord-Boofhead]

They have a rich background and in most cases there is absolutely no need for a retcon. We still have TONS of units in the background (Slicing orbs, Warpspider Phoenixlord,...) which do not need ANY retcon at all. FW has done an amazing job with the Spectres and their Phoenixlord creating a meaningful Camapain and made it feel like the universe is alive and new stuff happens.

So let me get this right, you are complaining that GW hasn't given us the (stated to be rare and obscure) Slicing Orbs of Zandros and then praising FW for giving us the before now never mentioned Sectors.

Consistency isn't your strong spot is it?

- - - Updated - - -


Necrons:
10996




I think it could be started off with something as small as the tempestus release was, Infantry box, HQ, Vehicle dual build.
3 kits, codex, army. kitn kaboodle.

SO

Sqaut HQ In better than normal armour, alternate for sqaut heavier armour (the og exo)
Sqaut Infantry + Mole mortar as heavy weapon option.
Termite-Transport/Alternate Kamikaze Robot Explosive/Sapping Heavy Choice - take out all those strongholds
Mole mortar/Heavy weapons team sprue repack

if its going to be small production perhaps itll even be served up FW similar to the Mechanicus. I dont expect to see anything bigger than those three kits HQ INF TRANS

I've saying simmilar to this for ages, FW needs to do Squats as an IG regiment, Sapper specialists.

[Brenlak]

I just listened to a Vlog from some polish guy that I found on this site he talks about GW's real practice: they sell the hobby.
The down and out truth is that they sell some of the finest models in the world and that is what makes them the MONEY... rules will always be arbitrary to a company that is trying to sell you premium content

That being said as a Tyranid player I am overjoyed at the plethora of models coming out for me, but even when I wasn't painting(or playing...) I would still pick up a white Dwarf and drool over the beautiful mini's (I have a friend that graffiti's all over, he says he see's a wall and it needs him to paint, I do the same with models..)

And if you don't like the rules; change them! We play 7th edition with 6th edition psyker phase.

[DarkLink]

Necrons don't have an Egyptian flavour.><

Someone projecting Tomb Kings onto Necrons?



Consistency isn't your strong spot is it?


Haven't you learned anything from like the last twelve times you've gotten a temporary ban?

[John Bower]

I just listened to a Vlog from some polish guy that I found on this site he talks about GW's real practice: they sell the hobby.
The down and out truth is that they sell some of the finest models in the world and that is what makes them the MONEY... rules will always be arbitrary to a company that is trying to sell you premium content

That being said as a Tyranid player I am overjoyed at the plethora of models coming out for me, but even when I wasn't painting(or playing...) I would still pick up a white Dwarf and drool over the beautiful mini's (I have a friend that graffiti's all over, he says he see's a wall and it needs him to paint, I do the same with models..)

And if you don't like the rules; change them! We play 7th edition with 6th edition psyker phase.

Yep, as a nid player me too, I'm not getting my Spore pod till Xmas (it's a prezzy from my sister) but I am certainly looking forward to working out the best way to build it (I kind of figured as most of the people I play with are pretty reasonable so build it as the Artillery piece and use as whichever I need at the time).

On the whole though I do sometimes read the forums and think that when it comes to GW it is a case of 'Damned if they do, damned if they don't' with people. I know there are some who are 'eternally optimistic' and that is their prerogative after all. Same as it is to those who hate on GW for whatever; but then if you hate them so much; why are you still playing their games and/or buying their models?

I do like 7th ed, I know the psychic phase brassed off a lot of people but I like that it brings all that shenanigans into 1 easy to remember place. The times I forgot blessings/maledictions because they had to be done before you did anything else I lost count of.

Is the release schedule a bit quick? Now that I think yes; it's been very hard to keep up with on a limited budget, and I know I'm not the only one struggling with that. I do like that the codexes are all catching up to 7th ed; that's good, and I like the new campaign supplements adding new stuff to armies and new rules that we had back in 5th and are now way out of date (Planetstrike and Cities of Death). The last one I am truly looking forward to, I like to play a diverse 40k not just the same old missions every time. I have a spreadsheet and have it worked out to nigh on a hundred all told between the Apocalypse books, campaign supplements and Altar of War book.

Are some armies underpowered? Definitely; as said I play nids and I play DE, both of who struggle to win games. Heck my orks do way better and they are very much still CC oriented, it just seems they manage to get there better than my DE or nids do. I'd like to see the Eldar nerfed a bit next time; and to some extent the marines; lose that blasted Drop pod assault (I know it's fluffy but my gosh it gets abused) and make it normal reserve rolls just to tone it down a bit; raining Sternguard on your opponent with meltas is to my thinking just as OP as the Wave Serpent or Adamantine lance.