Scars: Horus Heresy book 28

[Jmaximum]

I am only about 3/4 of the way through, but holy frikkin wow!! There are so many indirect references to so many things:






**********************SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS****************************************** *****
This on page 248: "The rumor had persisted, fueled by past atrocities, that only a Primarch could kill a Primarch."
So maybe 2 and 11 killed each other?????

On page 117: Bjorn is locked in to a cramped one-Astartes boarding torpedo, and thinks to himself: "This is how dreadnoughts must feel, the poor *******s". We all know what happens to Bjorn (and at this point in the story he has already lost his hand), but still, the foreshadowing is a nice nod.

Page 73: Malcador, admonishing Dorn!:"You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him [yes, a lowercase 'H' when referencing he Emperor] to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilized. He thought I was joking. I wasn't." <--All the fans out there almost had there female Space Marines, had Malcador had his way! I know from past fluff that Malcador is second only to the Emperor in psychic might, but was still blown away by his familiar tone with Dorn, and his casual reference of the Emp. Has there been a back story on Malcador? And whatever happened to him (I assume he died, being a mortal, but having that level of psychic I thought perhaps he became a Perpetual, or something).

Finally, the Khan and his legion: the seem very carefree and nonchalant, not making an impression on anyone (The Khan's officers constantly elude to how the other legions have simply forgotten about them, and that is there source of angst). But, apparently the Khan immediately ignored the outcome of the Council of Nikaea, and yet no punishment was visited upon him for it. However, Jaghatai did not try to psychically break in to the Throne Room either, so I wonder, had Magnus left well enough alone, if the Emp would have just let the legions ignore the Council's edict? Did we ever actually hear the Emperor's voice during the Council? It just seems like it could have been a fatherly formality for the Emp to tell his sons "stop looking at my girly magazines" *wink* and that would have been it, had Magnus not persisted.

This book truly portrays the utter chaos of the rebellion, with the only side knowing what's transpiring being the Word Bearers (heck, I don't Horus fully knew the extent of what Erebus and friends had planned out).

Please comment, I would like to see other points of view!

[DWest]

Haven't read the book yet, but a couple things from established background (until or unless it gets changed):
-pg 248: while it's possible, thus far the only confirmed Primarch kill so far was Fulgrim beheading Ferrus. There's also the possibility that Russ had something to do with one of them.

-pg 73: Malchador was seated on the Golden Throne to keep it running when the Emperor went to attack Horus personally, and was consumed by it.

[Dalleron]

Whether or not the Emperor spoke at Nicea is covered in either Prospero Burns or Thousands Sons, or both, as they criss cross at that point. It's been a while since I read those books, but I think they are great reads. The Lion also chooses to ignore the decision as well later on, for reasons that don't need getting into.

Also, Magnus had to do something to piss off daddy, just to further the story along. That's what they went with. We can all make up "what ifs" and Thousand Sons tell you why he does what he did, if you haven't read it yet.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Towards the end of Prospero Burns, Leman Russ mentions his legion possibly fighting another legion, and the Space Wolves are the executioners for the Emperor, so it would make sense that they may have or at least had a hand in killing another Legion.

[Katharon]

It's a fact that one of the "missing primarchs" was executed by Leman Russ on order of the Emperor. The other missing brother was "lost".

Malcador is still set in the shadows as far as his full background is concerned. There was an audio book, but it didn't answer anything we didn't already know and seemed to just confuse the issue even more. What we know of him, he is either the mortal son of the Emperor, a descendant of his, or he was a natural-born powerful psyker who was one of the first warlords of divided-Terra that helped him to Unify the world and thence to govern the Imperium.

The Council of Nikea forbade the use of psykic powers. The Khan's warriors, the stormseers, don't see their gifts as psykic power, but as natural power -- like shamans who believe that they gain energy from the earth and air around them. It's as natural as breathing to them. Also, it only declared that no Astartes should use such power, not that they had to give up their ranks. The Ultramarines and those legions that rigorously enforced the Edict, returned the Librarius warriors to their older ranks, in order for them to be less tempted to use their powers and enforce conformity with the new rules. Not every Primarch felt that they were obliged to follow, even an edict -- the Emperor soon returned to Terra after all and what better way to snub their noses at the newly promoted Warmaster than to show that he cannot even enforce a simple edict. For the Khan, it may have simply been a case of being too distant to hear of the edict or even of his own point of view on what constitutes the use of "psykic power."

There's an Obi-Wan quote to be had in this argument. But the manner in which the Thousand Sons and Crimson King employed their gifts, the sheer destructive harnessing of the weather through the use of willpower -- that kind of display can be nothing less than the definitive example of 'psykic power,' and hence their censure.

Erebus and Kor Phaeron had been planting seeds for years before the Heresy was even the shadow of an idea upon Lorgar's mind. They prepared the way for when they could fully unleash the power of their faith in Chaos. But by the time that Horus had fully executed his plans, by the aftermath of Istvaan III, he was informed by various agents both daemonic and mortal as to the extent of those two plotters plans. You need to remember that it was Horus who interfered with the carefully laid plans that Erebus had made for the Blood Angels to be turned. The same again for other books, that are after Scars, that I won't mention because SPOILERS.

Once the rebellion began and Horus truly became the arch-traitor, the Warmaster, he became the chief architect of the rebellion -- with each plot that Erebus or Kor Phaeron plotted having negative returns.

[Zac78]

Maybe Russ was referring to when he fought Angron

[Katharon]

Maybe Russ was referring to when he fought Angron

Except that he didn't kill Angron, they just beat the snot out of each other.

[Jmaximum]

It's a fact that one of the "missing primarchs" was executed by Leman Russ on order of the Emperor. The other missing brother was "lost". <-- you are correct, I forgot this point, but I thought it was hinted that one was destroyed and the other lost.

Malcador is still set in the shadows as far as his full background is concerned. There was an audio book, but it didn't answer anything we didn't already know and seemed to just confuse the issue even more. What we know of him, he is either the mortal son of the Emperor, a descendant of his, or he was a natural-born powerful psyker who was one of the first warlords of divided-Terra that helped him to Unify the world and thence to govern the Imperium. <-- I listened to the audiobook, and found it almost useless in forwarding the story, even going so far as to call it false advertising, as the cover shows him sitting on a (maybe not THE) golden throne with two skulls: one wih "II" and one with "XI".

The Council of Nikea forbade the use of psykic powers. The Khan's warriors, the stormseers, don't see their gifts as psykic power, but as natural power -- like shamans who believe that they gain energy from the earth and air around them. It's as natural as breathing to them. Also, it only declared that no Astartes should use such power, not that they had to give up their ranks. The Ultramarines and those legions that rigorously enforced the Edict, returned the Librarius warriors to their older ranks, in order for them to be less tempted to use their powers and enforce conformity with the new rules. Not every Primarch felt that they were obliged to follow, even an edict -- the Emperor soon returned to Terra after all and what better way to snub their noses at the newly promoted Warmaster than to show that he cannot even enforce a simple edict. For the Khan, it may have simply been a case of being too distant to hear of the edict or even of his own point of view on what constitutes the use of "psykic power." <-- It just seems so contradictory, and even flimsy, especially in Thousand Sons when the Space Wolf psyker says something to the effect "I can keep using MY powers because they are drawn from Fenris"When it seems like all psychic powers are drawn from the warp

Erebus and Kor Phaeron had been planting seeds for years before the Heresy was even the shadow of an idea upon Lorgar's mind. They prepared the way for when they could fully unleash the power of their faith in Chaos. But by the time that Horus had fully executed his plans, by the aftermath of Istvaan III, he was informed by various agents both daemonic and mortal as to the extent of those two plotters plans. You need to remember that it was Horus who interfered with the carefully laid plans that Erebus had made for the Blood Angels to be turned. The same again for other books, that are after Scars, that I won't mention because SPOILERS. [COLOR="#000080"]<--I don't remember Horus interfering, I thought Sanguinius finally defeated Ka'Banda and struck out on his own to find out was happening.[ (I think this is in Fear to Tread?) Kor Paheron is Horus's mortal father, correct? Or one of the Fulgrim's advisors? /COLOR]


I replied inline to your quote. I hope it comes through. If not, will repost.

[Katharon]

It came through well enough. In reply to the last two paragraphs:

1) It is extremely contradictory. But there is no clarification on the Emperor's or Malcador's thoughts in regards to this rather blatant contradiction. The explanation I gave [ie. that the White Scars stormseers and Space Wolf stormcallers view their psykic powers in a shamanic tradition that is not the same as /full/ manipulation of warp power like the Thousand Sons did] is the best that I've been able to hypothesis considering all the books and circumstantial evidence.

2) If you have read "Fear to Tread" then I suggest re-reading it. If you haven't read it yet, then I definitely suggest reading it ASAP. Horus, as far as we know, never had a mortal figure that acted as a surrogate father figure. Kor Phaeron is the First Captain of the Word Bearers -- before which he was the spiritual adviser and father figure to Lorgar. He is also the one who carried the Chaos-worshiping traditions of Colchis' old faith alive, teaching Erebus as well. The entire Heresy can be traced back to Kor Phaeron and Erebus, combined with Lorgar's weakness.

[Jmaximum]

2) If you have read "Fear to Tread" then I suggest re-reading it. If you haven't read it yet, then I definitely suggest reading it ASAP. Horus, as far as we know, never had a mortal figure that acted as a surrogate father figure. Kor Phaeron is the First Captain of the Word Bearers -- before which he was the spiritual adviser and father figure to Lorgar. He is also the one who carried the Chaos-worshiping traditions of Colchis' old faith alive, teaching Erebus as well. The entire Heresy can be traced back to Kor Phaeron and Erebus, combined with Lorgar's weakness. <---I have read Fear to Tread (I read all of the HH books as soon as they release, so I've read them in order, even though some of them break the continuity of the story line)> I thought Abaddon was Horus's mortal father. Maybe I am mixing him up with Kor Phaeron. I know one of them was at the cusp of being too old to ascend to Astartes-hood, but one of them did anyway, and is always mocked for it.

At any rate, I am really enjoying the book, and the writer's have indeed the fulfilled the wyrd of the Scars: the main angst of the Scars is that they go unnoticed, all but forgotten, and frankly, I forgot about the Scars for the other 27 books LOL. I know there is a Jaghatai novella I would like to read, something called the Stormrider, or the Khan Rides to War....

[Jmaximum]

Just read the scene where Jaghatai speaks with Magnus's shade.
If only other choices had been made, and Magnus agreed to being restored.... Do we know where Magnus is at this point? In the exchange he mentions he is on a barren rock on the other side of the galaxy.
AND OH HOLY CRAP the tantalizing clue as to the Emperor's name!
One thing I don't get though, is that Jaghatai has this one saying, the one true lie, about Emperors, but in M42 his legion is loyal.... So, this law he applies to emperors does not apply to The Emperor?

[Katharon]

Just read the scene where Jaghatai speaks with Magnus's shade.
If only other choices had been made, and Magnus agreed to being restored.... Do we know where Magnus is at this point? In the exchange he mentions he is on a barren rock on the other side of the galaxy.
AND OH HOLY CRAP the tantalizing clue as to the Emperor's name!
One thing I don't get though, is that Jaghatai has this one saying, the one true lie, about Emperors, but in M42 his legion is loyal.... So, this law he applies to emperors does not apply to The Emperor?

Magnus is lying, back-broken, on a world in the Eye of Terror.

As for the rest...finish reading Scars and you might find your answer.

[Jmaximum]

Just completed the book. Still don't get it. It sounds like Mortarion was on the right path, and did not want to be subsumed by Nurgle
Also, in the front of the book, it lists Alpharius as a 'Personae Dramatis', but we never see him....
So yeah, I think I need the Magnus and Mortarion encounters explained a bit.