Calling all Necron players! (all three of you) [Archive] - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Subject Keyword

01-26-2010, 09:51 PM

First of all, I'd like to draw your attention to the lyrics of this song by "Ribspreader."

The Monolith
And it awakens, the horror long gone and hidden
No man has ever known this formless creation of ancient time

the seas are boiling with hate
A monolith rising to seal your fate

And so it rises, the epitome of ancient evil
Constructed to be worshipped and generate doom
Reclaiming reign over all is its only purpose
All those aeons of sleep must now be avenged

Bleed away in seas of blood, drenched in pain
Covered in the sickness of the monolith

Nothing is left alive, the sweeping plague kills all
Preparing the lands for the Ancients return

The monolith, spewing forth its disease
The monolith ridding this world of the living

If that's not pure Necrontyr goodness, I don't know what is.

As a more practical topic, have you Necron players ever gotten any flack from people about Necrons that you thought was a bit unfair?
Personally, in my gaming group, most of our battles take place on tomb worlds and involve Necrons to a great degree. There is plenty of respect for the progeny of the Star Gods in some places.

But in other places (particularity on the internet), people don't even know Necrons exist, or are incredibly rude about them.

There is a specific person on this site (who I agree with on 99% of everything he says) who said, I believe, "There is not a single Necron player on the planet, and for good reason."
I've also encountered people who think that Necrons should not be tournament legal, or are ALREADY not tournament legal, people who don't believe anything I do when I fight them for the first time because they've never fought 'Crons before ("Why aren't you removing your casualties? What do you mean my Meltabomb didn't kill your tank? Why are you shooting my tank with something that's only strength 4?"), and other people who's reaction is "What's a Necron?"

I understand that our codex is severely outdated, and that it takes a great deal of skill to work with them correctly, but, with the possible exception of Dark Eldar (who, by the way, 5th Edition treated VERY well) people don't pull that "why do you exist" **** with other armies.

I love my Necrons! I've said it before and I'll say it again. If GW removes Necrons from 40k, they remove me as well!!!

http://www.steelpenguin.net/games/E20081013100114/Media/5th_ed_necron.jpg

Cryl

01-27-2010, 02:12 AM

Because people don't often play necrons I've found a few classic necron rule myths have sprung up. Those that I've seen include people claiming that you can't shake or stun a monolith, that using the portal to move a squad from close combat is cheating, that a Lord's res orb doesn't work on himself and that the criteria for WBB is the same as FNP, not to mention plenty of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

I love the necrons, the background is awesome, the undead in space imagery is brilliant, I even like the all boltgun metal robot horde look, to me that's just right. So yeah I pretty much agree with your post.

BuFFo

01-27-2010, 02:18 AM

Cryl

01-27-2010, 02:24 AM

There is a FAQ available but like your signature says...

we can hope for a new book sometime soon

Irdion

01-27-2010, 04:25 AM

It is really a fraggin' trtavesty that GW refuses to put out an errata for Necron armies.

Without any exaggeration, two players have quit 40k earlier last year due to the Necrons not being able to compete against an army lead by a blind monkey.

Quit. As in, they play Warmachine now.

Sad, sad....

Trying not to bash GW here, but at least the folks over a Privateer Press can keep everything current as well as release new things at the same time :P

I love my Necrons, but the lack of an update (as well as DE, WH, DH, and Tau) for this long has started to become ridiculous.

As for you OP, I know how you feel. So many problems could be solved if 460 points of our army wasn't pre-constructed for us, (or 640 in most cases for large games). Having nearly or more than a third of your army pre-picked for you, combined with an incredible lack of customization or choice in army construction makes my lone Xenos faction harder and harder to justify seeing playtime. I feel like I have to explain the Necron rules every game nowadays, especially against new folks.

Madness

01-27-2010, 07:25 AM

Tbh the decision GW took to release so many new armies in the 3rd edition was a hazardous one, which apparently came back to bite them in the rear end.

In one edition they released:

Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Witch Hunters (Codex:SoB from second edition was a very slim one)
Codex: Daemonhunters
Codex: Tau
Codex: Necrons (There was a bunch of articles in WD during second etition, for like 4 models total)

Dark Eldars, Tau and Necrons came out pretty much from thin air, there's hardly any tie in before their release.

It's no wonder that Necrons, the ones that received the short straw regarding the backstory, didn't see much popularity outside the normal codex creep upon release.

I'm not saying necrons should be removed or shouldn't have even been existed, but from a writing standpoint, they really failed to catch on. I blame the crappy storytelling and abuse of retcon.

Also, notice how it's 3 Xenos, 2 Imperial, just a reminder to people who complain about that.

ZenPaladin

01-27-2010, 10:46 AM

Well I don't play at my FLGS so I don't meet a lot of local players but the Cron's seem to get quite a bit of attention on the web. More than DE and WH at least.

And they were included in the fluff of the Tyranid book so that would seem to indicate they are not forgoten. Now when I first started playing the game I got a lot of flack about WBB and my Mono. I had one player refuse to play me if I used the Mono. Then he started really reading other rule books and eventualy offered to alow me to play some house rules against his armies. IE gauss = rending.

The cron's are hurting this edition but I wouldn't say they get a lack of respect or anything. They don't seem like a phantom army as far as I can tell. If nothing else playing them gets us some pity points and they are still a very uniquely flavored force.

Lord Azaghul

01-27-2010, 11:13 AM

It is really a fraggin' trtavesty that GW refuses to put out an errata for Necron armies.

Without any exaggeration, two players have quit 40k earlier last year
Quit. As in, they play Warmachine now.

Sad, sad....

That actually wraps up fantasy in my area. A good portion of people of quit playing fantasy have have picked up WM.

BuFFo

01-27-2010, 11:20 AM

Tbh the decision GW took to release so many new armies in the 3rd edition was a hazardous one, which apparently came back to bite them in the rear end.

In one edition they released:

Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Witch Hunters (Codex:SoB from second edition was a very slim one)
Codex: Daemonhunters
Codex: Tau (There was a bunch of articles in WD during second etition, for like 4 models total)
Codex: Necrons

Dark Eldars, Tau and Necrons came out pretty much from thin air, there's hardly any tie in before their release.

It's no wonder that Necrons, the ones that received the short straw regarding the backstory, didn't see much popularity outside the normal codex creep upon release.

I'm not saying necrons should be removed or shouldn't have even been existed, but from a writing standpoint, they really failed to catch on. I blame the crappy storytelling and abuse of retcon.

Also, notice how it's 3 Xenos, 2 Imperial, just a reminder to people who complain about that.

On a side note, Necrons are a 2nd edition army.

Just being nit picky :)

Madness

01-27-2010, 11:24 AM

I mentioned that, I own the WD(s) in which necrons were introduced, and they had 4 units. Lord, warrior, scarab, destroyer, they never got a Codex and it was the last thing done before going to third ed.

Master Bryss

01-27-2010, 11:25 AM

First off, turns out theres a few more than 3 Cron players out here, although I must admit that I don't know any Cron players apart from Cyberscape7, and he uses Eldar more now anyway. I see a lot of younger Cron players in my local GW, but they're not as educated in the whole 'Necrons in 5th' scene.

But as I see it, we shouldn't get any flak at all. We can't use an S4 gun to take down a Land Raider, sure, but we can use Warscythes, occassionally Heavy Ds and 'Liths. Speaking of 'Liths, LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE THING! If only arguments were that simple...

BuFFo

01-27-2010, 11:28 AM

Madness

01-27-2010, 11:30 AM

You put that after Tau :) I.. did?
Fixed the post. Sorry about that.

Vhalyar

01-27-2010, 01:50 PM

I didn't think there was any kind of animosity towards Necron armies; if anything, it'd be like Daemons where people are surprised at everything the army does.

But then I saw this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242061) and now believe there are retarded people who'd love to see Necrons removed just because they don't understand how they work.

Asymmetrical Xeno

01-27-2010, 01:58 PM

I think my next death-robot music project will be called "Give us a new codex".

Subject Keyword

01-27-2010, 04:54 PM

It's no wonder that Necrons, the ones that received the short straw regarding the backstory, didn't see much popularity outside the normal codex creep upon release.

I'm not saying necrons should be removed or shouldn't have even been existed, but from a writing standpoint, they really failed to catch on. I blame the crappy storytelling and abuse of retcon.

If you're talking about Necron fluff, I'm going to have to (very respectfully) disagree with you.
I have a hard time thinking of a plot about an ancient race of lepers who sacrifice their souls to the stars given malevolent humanoid form to become metal skeletons who will stalk the universe for eternity, purging it of the living and feeding their tortured souls to the being that is the SOURCE of the fear and concept of death as "crappy storytelling." 40k is awesome because it seamlessly blends many different genres (Sci Fi, Warfare, etc.) together. Necrons (and DE, for that matter. Wonder if this is a coincidence?) are the HORROR element.

I think my favorite genre is represented rather well, thank you.

By the way, have you read Xenology?

Madness

01-27-2010, 05:47 PM

Yes I have, but I have to tell you, as an oldschool fan (started shortly after 2nd ed. was published) the power escalation kind of bummed me out, when I first read the Necron bg it struck me as pretty immature progress for such a mature universe.

We had Eldar and Ancient ones, the two old races, the second ones being the older but also forgotten, shrouded in mistery and whatnot, we also had powerful entities and manifestation of the gods. Then all of a sudden an ancient-er race pops out, with daemons so much more powerful than the ones we know that they are actual gods. You got to field gods.

One might say "awesome" but honestly it ticks me off, it feels like a dragonballesque progression, you have a bloodthirster with a big axe? Well MY guy's axe IS a bloodthirster, a TWIN LINKED one (Bloodthirster-chucks?).

Always breaking the power limits is the poor author's tool for expanding the universe, vertically instead of horizontally.

Horror. You speak of Horror and think "Dark Eldar/Necrons". Have you ever read the two Realms of Chaos books? Do you REALLY think Necrons and Dark Eldars can top that?

From a miniature/stylistical standpoint Dark Eldar and Necrons are just fine, they developed a look of their own, but story-wise their appearance was unexpected and their interaction with the other races is so nil that they feel foreign to the enviroment. At least that's my point of view.

The Tau received a better treatment, they didn't come out with hey "'sup guys, I know we look new, but actually we've been here the whole time. Yep, the whole time." They bothered placing them outside the Astronomican range, introducing them as a society that is meeting the grimdark just recently, a complex society with more than one facet. Also they don't have uber stuff that's hardly justifiable as a tabletop unit.

How ironic that I just realized how "monolithic" is Necron's BG. The only bits worth mentioning are the c'tan's infighting, so similar to the one between the Chaos gods that's not even funny, and the new Pariah's thing, other than that, necrons' story has little appeal to it.

BuFFo

01-27-2010, 09:45 PM

Madness, what you seem to not understand is that the fluff/history/canon of 40k is NOT static. It changes as each new codex/edition is written.

40k is a game that allows the players to play in the PAST. I know most players, before a game, do not think about what year their game takes place, but, 40k is designed to be a game where players take part in past battles over and over.

So, in a game where it has been 'now' for the past 2 decades, without the time line going any further than it currently is, the only place to play is in the past.

What I am trying to say is, that in 1994, there wasn't a decision to make and keep Eldar mysterious forever.

When the time comes, new races are added, the history rewritten to accommodate them, and that's it.

So for those who felt 'slighted' that Necrons got shoe horned into the Eldar lime light, well, there is nothing I can say except move on....

Madness

01-28-2010, 12:35 AM

Of course, but you can't pretend nothing of what was before ever happened. And even then there was a balance of races in the universe, throwing some new ones in is something that requires skill. Tau were done right, they blend in, Dark Eldar did have a hook altough no reason is given as per their sudden appearance (not even a squat of information).

Also you're not quite correct, as uneventful as it has been, the various editions of the game do push the timeline further on, the latest rumours about the Blood Angels codex are just the last example of that, Tau expansions is another one... etc.

I have NO qualm with new races being added, but it's sad that they do it badly. Necrons were a badly executed power play that could have been done with a more careful touch and with some developement in their interaction with the rest of the universe.

Dark Eldar for instance, there was a big chance for Chaos Eldars as a design, the whole fall event left space for a race of evil/corsair/chaos Eldar but the way they reduced them to "yeah so they go around in webways and take slaves, which they then torture" is pretty one-dimensional, even Khorne has more depth to it.

Not to mention they steamrolled the appeal of some armies that are now left with little to no identity. The egyptian theme was already being developed on the thousand sons, and torture/pleasure would have been nice for slaanesh. We could have had a chaos that didn't look like a custom space marines chapter with some daemons and some spiky bits instead.

It might also be a problem of being introduced in the least fluffy edition ever, a 5th edition codex might re-retcon them into decently shaped armies/societies, not all hope is lost. But as of now Necrons' fluff make me roll my eyes.

BuFFo

01-28-2010, 01:10 AM

The game has been stuck on the year 757998.M41 for the better part of a decade and a half.

Then, the game finally went foward a bit in the 13th Crusade Global Campaign, and the current time was 995999.M41.

Then game finally lurched forward a bit when The Fall of Medusa Campaign happened. The game moved forward to 006.M42.

Besides these last two Campaign events, the game has been stuck at the Third War for Armageddon for a looooong time.

No one has the Blood Angels codex yet, so no one knows if there is any fluff beyond 006.M42. There might be, but we don't know yet.

As for the Tau, they are a perfect example of the past being rewritten. The farthest piece of fluff for them takes place in 977997.M41, which is STILL years before Third War for Armageddon.

40k is a game where we play in the past for the most part.

As for Necrons.... Meh.... I think their fluff is silly personally. It makes no sense to me.

Lerra

01-28-2010, 01:54 AM

Personally, I like the idea of a flawed race that was tricked into eternal slavery by a god who promised eternal life. Now they are trapped, their souls slowly fading away, serving as a gruesome example of what happens when a race falls.

Some of the other parts of the Necron fluff goes too far, but that's a common problem with the 40k writers, imo. They try too hard to one-up each other, to make their army even cooler and more badass than the one before it, even if it's a bit ridiculous.

Of course, GW has been moving away from the better parts of the Necron fluff, imo (the recent stuff seems to imply that the Necrotyr were always evil and are willing servants of the C'tan), but you never know what they'll come out with in the next Necron codex. Apparently the army is being radically redesigned, and I suspect that involves some of the fluff, too.

BuFFo

01-28-2010, 04:33 AM

Personally, I like the idea of a flawed race that was tricked into eternal slavery by a god who promised eternal life. Now they are trapped, their souls slowly fading away, serving as a gruesome example of what happens when a race falls.

Okay, this is the only part of the Necron fluff I do not get.

So the Necrontyr were 'cursed', and couldn't live long lives.

You are telling me that after they left their home world, and colonized other systems, that their life spans didn't get better? Their over all health didn't get better?

On Earth, today, because of our 'primitive' advances in medicine and birth success rates, Humans now live much longer, and much healthier, than man did only a century ago.

So the Necrontyr couldn't manage to find a 'cure' for their radiated bodies?

I know this is science fiction, but the GW Handwavium science here just baffles me.

I can buy the fact that the Necrontyr sold their souls to the 'devil', and now are living undead encased within metal bodies more than the Necrontyr not being able to figure out a way to get healthier once they left their home world.

I guess Necrons on the table top in 5th edition mirror how they used to be; short lived.

Subject Keyword

01-28-2010, 01:05 PM

Ok. I think you're missing a few vital things...

Then all of a sudden an ancient-er race pops out, with daemons so much more powerful than the ones we know that they are actual gods. You got to field gods.

The Nightbringer and Deceiver models that you put on the table ARE NOT the C'Tan. They are small extensions of their power. You cannot put a Star God on the table anymore than you can put Grandfather Nurgle on the table.
Also, the C'Tan are not Daemons in any sense of the word.

One might say "awesome" but honestly it ticks me off, it feels like a dragonballesque progression, you have a bloodthirster with a big axe? Well MY guy's axe IS a bloodthirster, a TWIN LINKED one (Bloodthirster-chucks?).
Always breaking the power limits is the poor author's tool for expanding the universe, vertically instead of horizontally.

The C'Tan models are COMPLETELY impractical. You'd be stupid to field one outside of Apocalypse. And, perhaps you've never fought one, because, let me tell you brother, a Bloodthirster will f*ck up a C'Tan on the tabletop any day of the week (and it's cheaper). Please don't fault an entire race for two of its models.

Horror. You speak of Horror and think "Dark Eldar/Necrons". Have you ever read the two Realms of Chaos books? Do you REALLY think Necrons and Dark Eldars can top that?

Yes. I have read them. And no. DE/'Crons do not "top that." They are just different. Chaos is terrifying, yes, but it's mythology is PURELY Christian in origin (which is really cool).
Necrons move outside of Christian mythology to a more mature and modern model of fear: the looming inevitability of your own weaknesses turning against you (and not in a "infused with the dark power of the gods" kind of way).
Chaos is the monster in the basement. Necrons are the axe over your head that you don't know is there.

From a miniature/stylistical standpoint Dark Eldar and Necrons are just fine, they developed a look of their own, but story-wise their appearance was unexpected and their interaction with the other races is so nil that they feel foreign to the enviroment. At least that's my point of view.

The guys who make the Imperium's Guns worship a C'Tan. The Necrontyr were one of the catalysts for the creation of many of the races. Chaos exists as it does because of a period of Necrontyr power pressuring the Old Ones into drawing on the Warp until the creatures within became malevolent. The Deceiver holds office in the Imperium disguised as a human. The list goes on.
Yes, it's hard to introduce something that influential into a system of mythology, but I think GW did it as well as can be expected.

The Tau received a better treatment, they didn't come out with hey "'sup guys, I know we look new, but actually we've been here the whole time. Yep, the whole time."
The whole time. Underground on dead worlds. Undetectable.

Also they don't have uber stuff that's hardly justifiable as a tabletop unit.

I would pee myself with happiness if I had an uber unit.
Seriously. Wet my pants.

The only bits worth mentioning are the c'tan's infighting, so similar to the one between the Chaos gods that's not even funny.

Chaos gods don't completely consume each other. Necrontyr gods do not pit their armies against each other like Chaos, they fight one on one (though I do like to imagine Tzeentch knocking on Nurgle's door and going "come on out, fatty! Lets go right now! You and me!"). And Chaos gods do not move freely around the material realm. There are a couple of differences.

You are telling me that after they left their home world, and colonized other systems, that their life spans didn't get better? Their over all health didn't get better?

On Earth, today, because of our 'primitive' advances in medicine and birth success rates, Humans now live much longer, and much healthier, than man did only a century ago.

So the Necrontyr couldn't manage to find a 'cure' for their radiated bodies?

Radiation is only part of the puzzle of the "curse of the flesh" the Necrontyr endured. The Radiation was bad on their home planet, yes, but their curse was the plan that the star of their birthplace had for them.
They could not escape it any more than a person could escape having herpes by moving to Switzerland.

I guess Necrons on the table top in 5th edition mirror how they used to be; short lived.
Damn you for being so right...

I think the main problem that people have with Necrons is trouble accepting the new. Most players I know who join the hobby post-Necron just look at the Metal tide as an important, albeit unplayable, part of the mythology of 40,000. I'll admit I was a bit troubled when Radiohead stopped using instruments in their albums. But for another person just being introduced to the band it was one of their drawing factors, and I eventually warmed up to it too.

^^^Opinions... Nothing more...

BuFFo

01-28-2010, 01:12 PM

Radiation is only part of the puzzle of the "curse of the flesh" the Necrontyr endured. The Radiation was bad on their home planet, yes, but their curse was the plan that the star of their birthplace had for them.
They could not escape it any more than a person could escape having herpes by moving to Switzerland.

LOL

"The curse that the Sun had for them?"

You know that even in 40ks Science Fiction, Stars are the same as Stars in real life, right? Stars don't have magical cursing abilities. Its radiation, pure and simple, and its even written in the fluff.

The only curse is the horrible science fiction in the Necron fluff.

A race able to travel faster than light with amazing particle reconstitution abilities could not stick needles and vials in their skins to keep themselves living longer like the 'primitive/dark age' humanity (in 40k, not real life) which currently live longer by centuries by using vials and needles?

Just bad writing.

Asymmetrical Xeno

01-28-2010, 01:30 PM

I know its cool to hate necron backround but I think the necrons have the BEST fluff in the game, a great and innovative mix of terminator and HP Lovecraft, two things I love. Great visuals, awesome history and plenty to let the imagination run riot. The war in heaven has to be the coolest part of the entire 40k history IMO - So much so, my gaming group are doing our own version of it in Epic scale - complete with Old Ones/allies, Enslavers, Necrons and Necrontyr alike.

No other army has inspired me like the necrons, and I have every single army in the game - even to the point of creating an entire music style out of them - and even now im finishing up my admech Cult of the Dragon army. As for it being "silly"...well IMO I feel ALL 40k fluff is over the top and goofy really, I dont know what makes necrons any different. I've been into this game since Rogue Trader and I feel the retcons that have happened over that time have only been for the better.

and since when has 40k ever been "science fiction" ? its pure Space Fantasy ala Dune ect. If you want hard sci-fi, go read Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker.

As for Chaos being more "horror" ? meh, I dont think so either. I find most chaos fluff rather boring - ESPECIALLY the dull chaos legions (with the possible exception of iron warriors and alpha legion I guess). And besides, I find the enslavers far more horrific than Chaos daemons when it comes to warp entities - this coming from someone who owns TWO tzeentch daemon armies. I guess people will love/hate what they like at the end of the day, but I find the necron hate so tiring and boring. I firmly believe its not the army but the person who does that army - any army can be as interesting or dull as one makes it (even the ones I dont particularly like either)

Lord Anubis

01-28-2010, 01:45 PM

ZenPaladin

01-28-2010, 01:46 PM

To be fair 40K fiction is rife with dramtic licence. We can find fluff holes everywhere. The concept remains cool (IMHO) regardless of the fact that it is insuficiantly supported. I mean we've only had one book and aprently some stuff in Xenology.

Give the bots a chance to grow. Eventualy some good writer will step in and fill in the plot holes. We hope...

Cyberscape7

01-28-2010, 02:03 PM

DarkLink

01-28-2010, 02:55 PM

People. Necrons were my first army. They are disturbingly appealing I find and I agree that they have recieved enough abuse. However there is no need to worry about their well being, because the monolith is still invincible(hopefully) and I still hear rumours inside of GW and out, that their update will come mid 2010. Still. Fingers crossed...

Yeah, I've heard some rumors of Necron and Dark Eldar updates before mid-2011, in addition to Grey Knights, Sisters of battle and possibly one or two others. Busy times.

Duke

01-28-2010, 04:11 PM

All I can say about 'crons is: "Don't call it a comeback, Ive been here for ages," - LL Cool J

Duke

Lord Azaghul

01-28-2010, 04:20 PM

All I can say about 'crons is: "Don't call it a comeback, Ive been here for ages," - LL Cool J

Duke
Boo!
You must be a GW fluff writer!:p

Lerra

01-28-2010, 04:49 PM

LOL

"The curse that the Sun had for them?"

You know that even in 40ks Science Fiction, Stars are the same as Stars in real life, right? Stars don't have magical cursing abilities.

Except when those stars are occupied by Star Gods. The Necrontyr were cursed by the star because the C'tan came from the star.

The C'Tan models are COMPLETELY impractical. You'd be stupid to field one outside of Apocalypse. And, perhaps you've never fought one, because, let me tell you brother, a Bloodthirster will f*ck up a C'Tan on the tabletop any day of the week (and it's cheaper). Please don't fault an entire race for two of its models.

I disagree. The Nightbringer is pretty bad, but the Deceiver performs decently compared to the only other option in the HQ slot (a necron lord). Both options are overpointed by 40-50 imo, and when you consider that you are paying that "tax" no matter which HQ you take, the Deceiver doesn't look so bad.

A Bloodthirster will tear him up, but the Bloodthirster will never get into assault due to the Deceiver's special rule that allows him to Hit&Run before combat starts. If you assault a Deceiver with a Bloodletter, you are only springboarding him closer to his target.

The Deceiver fills a gap in the Necron army that nothing else does (assault). Try watching him tear through a squad of TH/SS terminators :D

BuFFo

01-28-2010, 05:11 PM

Except when those stars are occupied by Star Gods. The Necrontyr were cursed by the star because the C'tan came from the star.

lol, not true at all.... You need to buy a Necron Codex and read it for yourself.

Page 24, first paragraph under The Necrontyr. "Atomic winds and plasma storms". There are no Gods meddling with them, nor is the Sun some magical curse slinging machine.

It is just a Star, like our Sun.

Horrible Fiction at its 40k finest.

Subject Keyword

01-28-2010, 06:49 PM

LOL

"The curse that the Sun had for them?"

You know that even in 40ks Science Fiction, Stars are the same as Stars in real life, right? Stars don't have magical cursing abilities. Its radiation, pure and simple, and its even written in the fluff.

The only curse is the horrible science fiction in the Necron fluff.

Wha...? Please tell me you're joking! Or maybe your not joking and you have a problem with the science fiction of every army. Or just science fiction period?
Or do all the following make perfect sense:

A race of sentient, technologically advanced mushrooms who can sometimes develop into goblins or dinosaurs.

A Mech piloted by a corpse.

An iron Demi-God who is awoken by a sacrifice and who's hand drips a constant stream of blood.

Shapeless Daemons who burst forth from another dimension and are somehow able to take shape.

Penis-less super humans who have swords that can cut through rock and can control the weather.

Evil leaders of dystopian gangs who sit around and drink tortured souls.

Bugs with living spaceships.

The list goes on.

With the POSSIBLE exception of IG and Tau, 40k's science is so soft you could spread it on toast and have delicious sci-fi toast! So, no, stars in Warhammer are not the same as stars in our astronomy classes. And, yes, they can put curses on people.
"Their star" was not referring to the sun of the Necrontyr homeworld. I apologize. That's just me being an a$$- hat and indulging in my love of being cryptic. For real. I'm sorry.
Which leads me to this...

The Old Ones were immortal.

Now, granted, I'm not that good with the fancy math-hammer and all, but I believe when stacked up against immortal even a lifespan of a few hundred years looks "short and uncertain."

The "horrible curse" encoded into the Necrontyr genes? They were mortal. That's it. They were a race of people with finite lives that met a race that outlived suns. And just like mortals today and just like mortals in the "today" of 40K, a mortal lifespan felt like you were gettin gypped when those guys over there get to live forever.

Quit giving sh*t away! Damn! Now I have no secrets left (other than the true nature of the Maw that Ogres worship, but that's a different game).
Seriously though, it's pretty simple. Necrons are REALLY ancient Taoists. It's a thousand time more interesting than ANYTHING to do with the Imperium. What's the Imperium's moral of the story? That people can get away with some pretty crazy sh*t?

I know its cool to hate necron backround but I think the necrons have the BEST fluff in the game, a great and innovative mix of terminator and HP Lovecraft, two things I love. Great visuals, awesome history and plenty to let the imagination run riot. The war in heaven has to be the coolest part of the entire 40k history IMO - So much so, my gaming group are doing our own version of it in Epic scale - complete with Old Ones/allies, Enslavers, Necrons and Necrontyr alike.

Asymmetrical Xeno, if I weren't female and gay, I would have a MASSIVE crush on you.

Just sayin'.

Asymmetrical Xeno

01-28-2010, 08:25 PM

Asymmetrical Xeno, if I weren't female and gay, I would have a MASSIVE crush on you.

Just sayin'.

aww thanks :) I appreciate the compliment hehe, so no romantic necron painting sessions then :p "ohhhh my love, have this monolith with a heart shaped gauss crystal of DOOOOM my darling".

I had no idea female necron fanatics even existed, now I have hope for the grim dark future :cool:

BuFFo

01-28-2010, 08:41 PM

With the POSSIBLE exception of IG and Tau, 40k's science is so soft you could spread it on toast and have delicious sci-fi toast! So, no, stars in Warhammer are not the same as stars in our astronomy classes.

Yes they are. Nothing written since the game was created suggests otherwise.

And, yes, they can put curses on people.

Um, no they can't. Nothing written since the game was created suggests otherwise.

As adults, with our sense of tastes for what is done well, there is a clear distinction between something that is well written, and something that is not.

I am not trying to be difficult. I am just pointing out a FACT that the fluff for the entire necron race is utter garbage. It makes no sense, not even from a science fiction stance.

If the fluff flat out said their star cursed them, then I would be happy! But it doesn't! Science is used as a reason for their short life spans, and oddly enough with their superior intelligence, their sceince cannot even add a few decades of life to their race. It is utterly pathetic writing.

The Necrontyr background is just one giant mess that makes no sense. It is so bad it is hard to suspend disbelief even for a sci-fi setting.

Morgrim

01-28-2010, 10:49 PM

Fluff in that particular area? Okay, there is kind of a confusing major plot hole. Not really created in itself, more in a 'well, we have two conflicting ideas and forgot to line them up with each other' sort of thing. Trapped on a planet, short unpleasant lifespans, rather advanced tech (but not faster-than-light travel) and approached by/found and tried to use an immortal presence to advance themselves and then got tricked. Yep, that all hangs together at least as well as any other race's fluff and is interesting.

Short lifespan, advanced tech, expanding empire but running into Old Ones who think they shouldn't exist and are intent on exterminating them, hatred of the 'approved' races, the war in heaven, turning to the other side that is opposing the enemy Old Ones and then getting tricked? Yep, that holds together too, and is interesting.

Mashing them together and having trapped on planet with unpleasant radiation yet interstellar empire and a massive war yet bound to gods eating their own star? Umm, we have a contradiction there.

I also don't believe short lifespan = flaw in technology. Some races are going to live longer than others. I always got the impression that it wasn't that necrontyr didn't live for all that long, but that the radiation made short lives rather messy, cancer ridden, etc. Tau seem to do quite fine living only 40-50 years. Humans don't have issues co-existing with eldar because eldar live centuries (other reasons for them fighting not included). Someone just needs to untangle and expand on the necron fluff to make it a little more coherent.

BuFFo

01-28-2010, 11:08 PM

Fluff in that particular area?

Yeah, when I am talking about the Necron background being crap, I ONLY mean the part about their Star causing them short life spans.

I would be happy if there was no reason to the Necrontyr's short life spans. If they just lived short lives, that would be fine, but the reason given for it, at least for me, is pretty retarded.

I haven't got deep into the rest of the fluff lately, but from what I remembered, everything else is fine. I just hope in the new Necron codex the Lords are given more individual intelligence. When I played Necrons years ago, my Lords were sentient leaders of the battle force.

Subject Keyword

01-29-2010, 12:37 AM

I am not trying to be difficult. I am just pointing out a FACT that the fluff for the entire necron race is utter garbage. It makes no sense, not even from a science fiction stance. If the fluff flat out said their star cursed them, then I would be happy! But it doesn't!
Oh Buffo. You could try your damnedest not to be difficult and your stubbornness and resolve would get the absolute best of you every time. Strangely, it's what I like about you. It's f*cking annoying on the internet, but if I was in, say, a combat situation, I'd want you on my side. And I suppose that's what counts, isn't it?
I'll go ahead and say that the "sentient star" theory is just my own personal interpretation of some very vague fluff. I am probably wrong. Is it far fetched? Nah. I think that saying "it is not directly stated in the fluff so therefore it cannot exist ever at all ever" is a bit nearsighted and limiting, but hey, whatever pickles your gherkin, right? So, do you have a problem with the aforementioned fluff from other armies? Or are mushroom dinosaurs A-Ok?

Science is used as a reason for their short life spans, and oddly enough with their superior intelligence, their science cannot even add a few decades of life to their race. It is utterly pathetic writing.

It has been clarified once or twice in this thread that the Necrontyr didn't want to increase their lives by "a few decades," but by eternity. Mortality and the physical pain (eg. radiation) associated with it are the issue. Not "short" lifespans by our human standards.

aww thanks :) I appreciate the compliment hehe, so no romantic necron painting sessions then :p "ohhhh my love, have this monolith with a heart shaped gauss crystal of DOOOOM my darling".

I had no idea female necron fanatics even existed, now I have hope for the grim dark future :cool:

I don't know... Those Necron painting sessions sound pretty rad...
If we keep it platonic and don't tell my girlfriend (she'll send her Wood Elves after me!), I think you may be onto something. You could melt a girls heart with all this talk of heart shaped doom crystals...
Don't worry. I know plenty of girls who are just waiting to carve out one eye, graph tentacles to their bottoms, grow giant brains and float around commandeering the living with a nice guy like you.:D
Plus, your kick-*** techno would make some lovely mood music.

Commissar Lewis

01-29-2010, 01:17 AM

My friend Fernando plays Necrons, and honestly I'm fine with it. It beats getting Berzerker-butt-****ed by my CSM-playing friend.

Madness

01-29-2010, 06:16 AM

@S_K: I'm not saying that the Necron stuff has no potential, I'm saying that the storytelling was rather lame and unengaging, it can be fixed with a decent author behind it, but as of now there's too much of "OH, so it was Necrons all along, eh?", I just can't buy that much retcon, I guess it's my fault for not reading enough DC comics.

If a god has limitless power, a fraction of that is still a pretty large amount, and even if the tabletop stats suck, you're still playing a god (or fraction thereof) against mortals, and that's silly on the power level scale.

Heck, we don't see units around armed with a "middle finger of the emprah" as it would be too much on its own, but then the necron get to field a unit that's literally called like the god it is a fraction of.

We don't see a "Khorne, fragment of" entry in the Daemons codex, we see a Daemon called Bloodthirster, which is a toy Khorne creates on its free time, we got to see up to Daemon Princes which are pretty much demigods on their own, and then the Necrons field "Deity, fragment of".

You can't really shove bad storytelling down my throat, it's badly done and it relies too much on me "buying" things, there's a spending limit in my willing suspension of disbelief, and Necron maxed it out too soon for me to enjoy the tale. Not even the rule of cool can save them now.

rbryce

01-29-2010, 08:31 AM

@madness: it seems in all the daemons fluff ive read that ALL of the lesser daemons, bloodthirsters, lords of change etc. are just aspects of the ruinous powers e.g a bloodletter is a fragment of Korne that he has shaped and allowed existance on his whim, and can reintegrate them if they fall out of favour. that much is evidenced in just the BRB, let alone their dex etc.

Asymmetrical Xeno

01-29-2010, 09:36 AM

I don't know... Those Necron painting sessions sound pretty rad...
If we keep it platonic and don't tell my girlfriend (she'll send her Wood Elves after me!), I think you may be onto something.

Eek wood elves..and theres alot of woods around where I live too...now im going to be terrified of getting some pointy arrows up me bum when I next go for a walk! :eek:

I know plenty of girls who are just waiting to carve out one eye, graph tentacles to their bottoms, grow giant brains and float around commandeering the living with a nice guy like you.:D.

Dammit, THAT made me spit tea onto the monitor out of sheer laughter! "Oh what beautiful tentacles you have, darling! arghhhhh what are you doing to my mind! yes darling, I WILL make dinner tonight." :D

another thing I love about codex necrons, the enslaver plague! cant beat space squids fighting death-robots :eek:

BuFFo

01-29-2010, 11:10 AM

It has been clarified once or twice in this thread that the Necrontyr didn't want to increase their lives by "a few decades," but by eternity. Mortality and the physical pain (eg. radiation) associated with it are the issue. Not "short" lifespans by our human standards.

lol.... Do you Necron players even read your own book?

Page 24, The Necrontyr, Third Paragraph.

It is CLEAR that the Necrontyr did not initially seek immortality. They weer simply jealous that the Old Ones lived long lives, and they themselves wanted to live longer. No where in the section of fluff I bring up do the Necrontyr seek immortality nor do the Old Ones live immortality themselves. Immortality has nothing to do with this issue at all. This section of fluff even spells it out that the Old Ones are NOT immortal.

Old Ones live long lives and the Necrontyr are jealous of their long lives. That's it.

The only time the Necrontyr even considered the possibility for immortality is when a God offered it to them, but I am not talking about this part of the fiction. That is later on, and is separate from this debate.

Shoddy fiction writing. I see no reason why such an advanced race could not extend their life spans.

Subject Keyword

01-29-2010, 05:43 PM

lol.... Do you Necron players even read your own book?

Yes. A thousand times through. I've also read your codex many times.

Let me just get this out of the way. Let's say, for the sake of sanity, that I am full of sh*t.
There. I admit defeat. The argument that I'm trying to pose is that there is a lot of metaphor in the ancient part of the fluff. So I am stating my OPINION about the fluff, and you are stating FACT about the fluff. Opinion cannot win out over fact. We're not even debating over the same thing.

I just hope that if you're religious you don't interpret your chosen text that closely!

And what about the mushroom dinosaurs!

Oh, yeah, when you guys call Necron fluff "utter garbage," could you cite some that is not?
I'm talking codex fluff only.
I'm genuinely curious

:o

Madness

01-29-2010, 09:28 PM

Uhm, I loved the background parts of Necromunda, Bloodbowl, Codex: Angels of Death (mostly due to nostalgia factor) and Codex: Chaos Daemons.

Btw, the Necron fluff could work decently on its own, it's when you try to put them into the 40kverse that you realize it's patched up at best.

BuFFo

01-30-2010, 10:38 AM

Yes. A thousand times through. I've also read your codex many times.

Let me just get this out of the way. Let's say, for the sake of sanity, that I am full of sh*t.
There. I admit defeat. The argument that I'm trying to pose is that there is a lot of metaphor in the ancient part of the fluff. So I am stating my OPINION about the fluff, and you are stating FACT about the fluff.

You claimed the Necrontyr wanted to be immortal, and this simply is not written anywhere when they first met the Old Ones.

Opinion cannot win out over fact.

I agree completely.

FACT: Necrontyr never sought immortality when they first met the Old Ones.

Subject Keyword

01-30-2010, 04:31 PM

Uhm, I loved the background parts of Necromunda

Hells yes. Me too. Why does everyone ignore Necromunda? I thought it was a great system.
All the different factions were really cool.

You claimed the Necrontyr wanted to be immortal, and this simply is not written anywhere when they first met the Old Ones.
Yes, I did claim that. And then I rescinded that and said that that was just my interpretation. I also stated that I was just as likely to be wrong as any other interpretation...

Please...

Stay away from the bible...
AND WHAT ABOUT THIS?!!!

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6239/4whitetruffle.jpg

=

http://domz60.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dinosaur.jpg

?

BuFFo

01-31-2010, 12:01 PM

Yup, you sure proved you stance on the point.... :confused:

Buy the Necron codex, then get back to me.

Subject Keyword

01-31-2010, 04:37 PM

Yup, you sure proved you stance on the point.... :confused:

Yes. I proved that my stance was a fallible interpretation instead of a verbatim literalist reading of the text. Have you ever read a poem before?

Buy the Necron codex, then get back to me.
Ok, now you're just being rude.
You seem to demonstrate the pattern of ignoring very straightforward questions that I am asking about your opinion, while I take every point you make and comment on it, whether I agree or not. You seem content to beat the same dead "but it never says that in the text so it must not exist" horse that I consented to help you kill two posts ago, hoping that its pulverized entrails will somehow assist you in winning an argument that you've already won. That's not a discussion! Its the masturbatory pleasure of repeatedly being right about something. You can ignore the Mushroom Dinosaurs until the dead horses come home, but I have no time for rude people in real discussions, and even less for rude people on the internet.

;)

BuFFo

01-31-2010, 10:13 PM

'Go buy the codex' is not a rude statement.

If you choose to read emotionless words on your computer screen as negative, that is your problem.

Here is a smiley for you. ;)

Subject Keyword

01-31-2010, 11:40 PM

'Go buy the codex' is not a rude statement.

If you choose to read emotionless words on your computer screen as negative, that is your problem.

Emotionless? Yes. Unnecessarily confrontational? Also yes.
I'm finished with our nerdy little slap fight.
And I appreciate the smiley. it was quite nice.

On to more constructive things...

What changes (other than a more playable codex) do you guys think would get the Necrons a little more respect? I think the inclusion of the C'Tan as playable models not only gets 'Crons a little flack, but is a silly expenditure of the special character slot in the 'dex. Some interesting characters would be cool. Maybe some heroes from the Necrontyr who were allowed to keep their identities because of their unique powers?

What are your thoughts?

Asymmetrical Xeno

02-01-2010, 12:26 AM

All they really have to do with the C'tan models is make them "essence of c'tan" really, or alternatively a lord that thinks its the nightbringer/deceiver. Problem solved and people get to keep their models.

As for new characters, yeah id like to see named lords - Lords are really where the necron army can shine, as their personalities can be reflected in their armies and thus you can have as interesting and unique necrons as you wish. Some lords could also open up potential Force Org changes ; i.e. take this named lord that has a wraith body and wraiths become troops ect.

For new units in general ;

* Exploding Scarabs, I miss em from 2nd ed! I still have a load of those classic Replicator style ones too. So, they wouldnt even have to make new models for them really.

* Builder Scarabs, these would have a number of things they could build but would be limited to lets say 1 type of thing - for example they could lay mines, traps and other obstacles.

* Obelisk, a light monolith type construct would be really useful. I think most agree on this.

* a Harvester type construct, something really brutal and horrific. A machine to bring out the violent side of the Necron's which was touched on with the Flayed Ones. The kind of thing the Nightbringer would love to use on its opponents.

* For a single elite choice type thing, (I posted this on warseer already) A living-metal "shoggoth" type construct, i.e. a necron warrior's living metal that has malfunctioned reducing it to a chaotic beast. Think : The Thing meets the warped T-1000 before it got pushed into the lava. I've always thought this would be perfect to represent their "malfunctioning" aspect - as well as their more lovecraftian side.

* Tomb Guardians - I admit I made these using warriors, and the old 2nd ed necron lord head and staff, but I think shambling guardian type things would be great. One could go crazy with all the damage and weathering effects.

* Void-Dragon Necrons - take a VD Lord, and you can equip Necron Warriors with Lightning guns, and Immortals with a similar (but stronger) variant.

*Abomination of Outsider - I imagine this like yet again another lovecraftian type monstrous creature, but more the size of the Trygon, like an experiment of the Outsider's insanity. A giant metal...abomination! with lots of tentacles, eyes, random mouths, lack of symmetry and exposed circuity in various areas.

Commissar Lewis

02-01-2010, 02:09 AM

Those are some really good idea.

Subject Keyword

02-01-2010, 09:17 PM

*Abomination of Outsider - I imagine this like yet again another lovecraftian type monstrous creature, but more the size of the Trygon, like an experiment of the Outsider's insanity. A giant metal...abomination! with lots of tentacles, eyes, random mouths, lack of symmetry and exposed circuity in various areas.
This is my favorite idea for a model I've heard in a long time!

Asymmetrical Xeno

02-01-2010, 10:54 PM

This is my favorite idea for a model I've heard in a long time!

You want to make one. Yes you do. You know you want to! :p

BlacknightIII

02-01-2010, 11:42 PM

You are telling me that after they left their home world, and colonized other systems, that their life spans didn't get better? Their over all health didn't get better?

On Earth, today, because of our 'primitive' advances in medicine and birth success rates, Humans now live much longer, and much healthier, than man did only a century ago.

This isnt 100% true. People arnt living longer like you would think. While the life expectancy has increased that is based on an average life expectancy. People back in the middle ages who were lucky enough and wealthy enough to live a healthy life free from diseases that plagued the time they would live just as long as a human would today. Humans have yet to fully understand why some people live longer than others.

Why can some people smoke a pack a day from the age of 16 and live to 80 years of age cancer free while a person who runs, eats healthy and lives what is known as a healthy lifestyle die of lung cancer from second hand smoke?

The necrontyr could have a similar experience.

Btw i have over 5,000 points of necrons which spend much of there time on a shelf now. I want to start a new army but im afraid a new necron codex will come out as soon as I do.

As for making them better, no more phase out please! If i lose a game its due to phase out 9 times out of 10.

BuFFo

02-02-2010, 01:09 AM

This isnt 100% true.

I'll take 99% then :D

BlacknightIII

02-02-2010, 10:31 AM

Well played sir!
Its an interesting thing to check out if you ever have that kind of time in your life.
My history teachers doctorates thesis was based on that idea.

As for Necrons i got to thinking last night.

Warriors
WS - 2, BS - 4, S - 3, T - 3, I - 2, A - 1, LD - 10, Sv 4+
Slow and Purposeful, Feel no Pain

Flayed Ones
WS - 4, BS - 0, S - 4, T - 3, I - 4, A - 2, LD - 10, Sv 4+
Feel no Pain, Rending, Power Weapons
Extra points - Scout or infiltrate

The point cost would drop quite a bit and for troop choices i like the idea of the shambling undead hoard.

Lord Azaghul

02-02-2010, 10:42 AM

As for Necrons i got to thinking last night.

Warriors

Slow and Purposeful, Feel no Pain

.
I think the warriors should keep their current stat line - I do like that they are MEQ. We all know the massive difference in a 3 to 4 stat line.

As far as the USR go:
Provided one could still use the monolyth to throw them around the board that would be pretty cool.

I also think phase out should be removed OR (and this one scares me) move WBB to a 3+

Subject Keyword

02-02-2010, 11:08 AM

Warriors
WS - 2, BS - 4, S - 3, T - 3, I - 2, A - 1, LD - 10, Sv 4+
Slow and Purposeful, Feel no Pain

I love the WS drop (WS4? never made any damned sense), but the S+T drop would either constitute a radical points drop, or a complete re-nerfing of the army. S+T 4 seems fluffy to me.

Sv 4+? that sent shivers down my spine. Necrons are giant metal robot skeletons, not zombies.

The change of WBB/PO to SAP/FNP, frankly, scares me. It would just be another step towards GWs plan to homogenize all the Xenos and the Imperium. I don't play Plague Marines, and I don't plan to play them (even though they are badasses). WBB is part of what makes Necrons special. It might be a little bit of a pain to keep track of when compared to FNP, but it's my thing. I don't think most Space Marines players would be very happy if you swapped "and they shall no no fear" for the "cold blooded" rule from fantasy. "We'll be back" is also GWs little way of acknowledging some of the inspiration for Necrons.

Oh, and BlacknightIII? Your idea for the new Flayed One is perfect.

Lerra

02-02-2010, 11:46 AM

Warriors
WS - 2, BS - 4, S - 3, T - 3, I - 2, A - 1, LD - 10, Sv 4+
Slow and Purposeful, Feel no Pain

This makes Necron Warriors too much like Tau Fire Warriors, imo. Necrons should be better than Tau in CC, and dropping them to T3 seems unfluffy and would force a major shift in the army. If you needed 20 warriors in your old Necron army, you'll want 60 warriors now. While GW might do that to sell more models, I'd be very disappointed if they made Necrons a horde army.

I'd rather see something like this:

Necron Warrior
WS3, BS4, S4, T5, I2, A1, Ld10, Sv 4+

Gauss Flayer: 24" S5 AP5, Heavy 1 Rending

Necron warriors may fire heavy weapons after moving, but they take a -1 penalty to their BS if they do so.

Gauss Weapons excel at tearing through armor molecule by molecule, and Gauss weapons may always choose to target side armor of a vehicle regardless of line of sight.

Lord Azaghul

02-02-2010, 12:02 PM

This makes Necron Warriors too much like Tau Fire Warriors, imo. Necrons should be better than Tau in CC, and dropping them to T3 seems unfluffy and would force a major shift in the army. If you needed 20 warriors in your old Necron army, you'll want 60 warriors now. While GW might do that to sell more models, I'd be very disappointed if they made Necrons a horde army.

I'd rather see something like this:

Necron Warrior
WS3, BS4, S4, T5, I2, A1, Ld10, Sv 4+

Gauss Flayer: 24" S5 AP5, Heavy 1 Rending

Necron warriors may fire heavy weapons after moving, but they take a -1 penalty to their BS if they do so.

Gauss Weapons excel at tearing through armor molecule by molecule, and Gauss weapons may always choose to target side armor of a vehicle regardless of line of sight.

I thought you said his suggestion was too much like Tau! S5 guns indeed!

I don't think that would happen. That would remove the need to for any med-fire power - like standard destroyers.

BlacknightIII

02-02-2010, 12:41 PM

GW seems to be using the abilities listed in the main rulebook a lot more and feel no pain with a rez orb that augments it while less fluffy than WBB will cause a lot less headaches for the non necron players.

S - 4 and T - 4 i can equally see but i would lower I to 1 and i would still leave the save to a 4+

Necrons have no bulk to there body a massive round from a heavy bolter or auto cannon would tear them to shreds.

But my idea for the rez orbs would help this. A unit that is within range of a rez orb and has to make a feel no pain roll by a weapon that normally allows a feel no pain roll can re roll failed feel no pain, a unit that suffers a wound from a weapon that would not allow will be back is allowed to make a will be back as normal.

As for a lord to me they see the world as a number of calculations and probabilities, everything they do is cold and calculated.
They are not slow moving like regular necrons and are able to augment the abilites of any necron unit it joins.
(this would not be the only HQ of course)

WS - 5, BS - 5, S - 5, T - 5, W - 3, I - 3, A - 3, LD - 10, Sv 3+
Feel no pain

Never tell me the odds - The Necron lord and any unit within x inches can choose to pass or fail a leadership test caused by shooting as long as the lord is not locked in close combat. In close combat the lord and any other necron unit in close combat with the lord can choose to pass or fail a leadership test caused by combat resolution.

Aim small miss small - If the necron lord joined a unit of warriors the warriors benefit from the lords BS as he is able to transit data to the warriors to better enhance there targeting

below the belt - If the necron lord joins a unit of flayed ones the flayed ones benefit from the lords WS as he is able to enahnce the flayed ones combat abilities.