HOLY SH*T BALLS! Template Blasts & Levels....umm, um...oh boy.

[Katharon]

Hello there BoLS peeps. I have discovered a rather disturbing conundrum. The other day I had my tenth or twelfth game of 7th edition, Tau+Imperium versus Blood Angels. One of my tanks was parked at the bottom of a building, almost inside of it, aiming out a doorway picking off targets. Well, those sneaky Blood Angels (we all know just how sneaky) deep-struck behind that tank with a couple melta guns. Needless to say, that tank did not make up its point cost in that game and blew up like it was the 4th of July. It exploded out five inches! Boom! Even took one Blood Angel marine down with it in death (ok, so almost an 1/8th of its points were made back).

Then we realized something.

I had Tau Broadsides sitting in the upper levels of the building. My friend pointed out that they should be getting hit by the exploding tank too. I disagreed at first and, silly me thinking of 6th, said "Nah, they're on a different level from the blast."

My friend immediately dived into the rulebook and we discovered that there is no longer any written rules pertaining to levels and explosions. Not even templates and levels. For all intents and purposes, if a template is centered over a unit in a building with multiple levels, then it's going to hit EVERYTHING under that template regardless of what level it may have been targeted at.

So...forum fellows and rule hunters. What say thee?

[Wildcard]

We noticed it last weekend ourselves, and after some googleing, it became apparent, that the forums are full of talks of this topic.

So far there seems to be 2 major sides on this:
a) Hits every Model that simply is under the template or blast marker regardless of if you can actually see them
b) Only those are hit that you can see after you've put the marker in place

I cannot remember the exact arguments for one or the other, but that was impression we were left with..

Anyway: Brutal

[DarkLink]

The answer is pretty much "whatever you houserule it to be".

[buggle]

What we've been doing is holding templates/blasts flat and then upright as per the example of the stompa being hit with a blast. Can't remember which page the image is on

[Henry Cabot Henhaus III]

When vehicles explode you do not use the rules for blast markers to assign hits to nearby models. You measure d6 inches from the vehicle to determine who is hit.
Template weapons hit everyone under them. The narrow end must be placed in base contact with the model firing it or the weapon of vehicle firing. It still has a maximum range of effect.

[Mike X]

It makes sense from a fluff point of view that every level gets hit, especially if it's a vehicle exploding beneath upper floors. This could be imagined as infantry getting knocked off a shaky floor, the explosion rising up and incinerating someone through vents, etc.

[clever handle]

Template weapons hit everyone under them. The narrow end must be placed in base contact with the model firing it or the weapon of vehicle firing. It still has a maximum range of effect.

what about torrent weapons? I can place my Burning Brand template anywhere within its range, so if there is a 3-level building with dudes on each floor and i place the template "above" the building, is only the top floor hit, or are the gents on all floors hit? I know the answer I'm prepared to play with, but I'm interested to see what the BoLS community thinks

[Charon]

According to RAW all floors are hit.

[Katharon]

All I can say is that my IG Armored Battle Group just got a whole lot more dangerous.

[John Bower]

I looked this up before after it was discussed on here, and all it says is any model under the template; nothing about whether you can 'see' the model; just under it. That RAW means all models are hit visible or not. It kind of makes sense; explosions aren't flat they are spherical; so should affect the other floors.

[Katharon]

I looked this up before after it was discussed on here, and all it says is any model under the template; nothing about whether you can 'see' the model; just under it. That RAW means all models are hit visible or not. It kind of makes sense; explosions aren't flat they are spherical; so should affect the other floors.

Indeed. It makes template-heavy armies that much more deadly.

I'd be in favor of fixing it so that you simply measure a certain distance from the epicenter of a blast and anything within that distance gets hit. That way you don't have a 3-story building getting hit at its top floor and an entire unit under that template down to the ground being hit...maybe we'll try it out in some test battles.

[John Bower]

Indeed. It makes template-heavy armies that much more deadly.

I'd be in favor of fixing it so that you simply measure a certain distance from the epicenter of a blast and anything within that distance gets hit. That way you don't have a 3-story building getting hit at its top floor and an entire unit under that template down to the ground being hit...maybe we'll try it out in some test battles.

Actually I think 'blasts' and 'templates' are one area where Mantic and their 'Warpath' definitely got it right; no faffing around with markers/templates just X hits. If my memory serves it was D6 for a large blast and D3 for a small or something like that. Flamers too were D6 hits on the unit. Sort of like they are in overwatch (wouldn't mind betting that's where GW got the idea).

[Charon]

Actually I think 'blasts' and 'templates' are one area where Mantic and their 'Warpath' definitely got it right; no faffing around with markers/templates just X hits. If my memory serves it was D6 for a large blast and D3 for a small or something like that. Flamers too were D6 hits on the unit. Sort of like they are in overwatch (wouldn't mind betting that's where GW got the idea).

Actually I like the templates more as it makes a difference if you are spread out or not. There is only one template I absolutely despise for its lack of "realism". Barrage. In 40k Barrage weapons are pin-point accurate sniper tools to weed out special weapons or characters.

[John Bower]

Actually I like the templates more as it makes a difference if you are spread out or not. There is only one template I absolutely despise for its lack of "realism". Barrage. In 40k Barrage weapons are pin-point accurate sniper tools to weed out special weapons or characters.

Hardly pin point accurate, especially if the first blast misses; which as a nid player I want it to do tbh.

[Charon]

Every weapon is inaccurate if it misses...
Blast weapon has the same drawbacks and the shooting comes from the model.
Barrage makes the shot come from the center of the blast which happens to be centered on your heavy weapons guy/squad commander.

[Pssyche]

"...wouldn't mind betting that's where GW got the idea..."

I'd take that bet.
And you'd lose your money.

10821

[Wolfshade]

What you mean a former GW rules writter uses the good ideas elsewhere? Shocking.