Assassins: GW did an am amazing job!

[Blood Shadow]

Got to say the Assassins data slate is really impressive, yes it cost just shy of £12, but finally Assassins will play like they should!

Vindicate new super long range rifle and Turbo rounds become Str 10 vs vehicles, shield breaker is ignores invulnerable, all attacks AP2 ignores cover :)

Callidas can now only infiltrate or come on form opponents edge, but when infiltrating can do so to within 1" phase sword got weirdly complex

Eversor, gauntlet got nerfed but on the large part a great choice for attacking hoards

Cullexus, WOW the boss he/she should always have been.....the only time you'll take psykers is to put bullets in his gun....12" blank bubble just nerfed invisibility to hell and once he can see you, you're going to have a psychic nightmare.....Psychic Death Stars meet your nemesis

[daboarder]

GREAT,

really glad to hear that they decided to put so much effort into a digital only dataslate as opposed to wasting time on actual printed material like the grey knight codex. Its even better that Assasins have been given the recognition they deserve with their own options, I mean its got to have heaps of options to justify its separate existence right?

[Blood Shadow]

Lol...yeah there's lots of options :) you can take one, two, three of four really cool assassins or you can take all four in a c.600point formation.

What there is is lots of fluff and expanded background, anyone whose read Nemesis will recognise each Clade's style. The rules are really nice as they are, the options come down to how best to deploy and which weapon to use each Assassin has lots of flexibility more than ever before.

The only Question I have is about the Precision Shot rule, it seems to imply that the vindicare can pick who it hits, however RAW states only on a 6 to hit.....which raises the Q can I reroll in attempt to get a 6 using BS8?
But still it's really good.

[Charon]

You can only reroll misses. A 2+ is no miss. You can only reroll a 1.

[Blood Shadow]

I think with one shot only per turn the the Vindicare is hoping to be almost exclusive used as a tank hunter, a 72" Str10 AP2 ignores cover (jink?) with a 2+ to hit with a 4+ reroll that can infiltrate to get side armour or even rear armour shots is awesome. The only issue is it is limited to stripping one hull point per turn if you roll poorly on the damage chart. I can see this guy getting used in multiples of two or three would really shut down Wave Serpents, Eldar are going to hate him......perhaps almost as much as the Cullexus ouch...

[Denzark]

GREAT,

really glad to hear that they decided to put so much effort into a digital only dataslate as opposed to wasting time on actual printed material like the grey knight codex. Its even better that Assasins have been given the recognition they deserve with their own options, I mean its got to have heaps of options to justify its separate existence right?

You are a naysayer par excellence, dabby.

[John Bower]

Lol...yeah there's lots of options :) you can take one, two, three of four really cool assassins or you can take all four in a c.600point formation.

What there is is lots of fluff and expanded background, anyone whose read Nemesis will recognise each Clade's style. The rules are really nice as they are, the options come down to how best to deploy and which weapon to use each Assassin has lots of flexibility more than ever before.

The only Question I have is about the Precision Shot rule, it seems to imply that the vindicare can pick who it hits, however RAW states only on a 6 to hit.....which raises the Q can I reroll in attempt to get a 6 using BS8?
But still it's really good.

Does sound like he got a heck of a nerf to me; used to be no Look Out Sir (which made sense as you can't get in the way if you don't know it's coming) and he always had precision on his target which made him(or her come to that) a fantastic way to shut down an enemy warlord. As it sounds from what you've said he/she has lost a lot of options (the 4d6 turbo pen was a bugger vs tanks) and only gained ignores cover and some range.

[Path Walker]

GREAT,

really glad to hear that they decided to put so much effort into a digital only dataslate as opposed to wasting time on actual printed material like the grey knight codex. Its even better that Assasins have been given the recognition they deserve with their own options, I mean its got to have heaps of options to justify its separate existence right?


Once again, why do you partake in a hobby that obviously brings you nothing but pain?

[Blood Shadow]

Does sound like he got a heck of a nerf to me; used to be no Look Out Sir (which made sense as you can't get in the way if you don't know it's coming) and he always had precision on his target which made him(or her come to that) a fantastic way to shut down an enemy warlord. As it sounds from what you've said he/she has lost a lot of options (the 4d6 turbo pen was a bugger vs tanks) and only gained ignores cover and some range.

Perhaps, the 72" range is quite a considerable increase to be fair (x2), all the Assassins now come with the no escape rule giving -2 on LOSir rolls not quite as good as ignoring it completely but it seems fairer.

I'm happy taking a guaranteed Str 10 weapon at 72" vs. a Str 4 to 24 at 36" the probabilities are similar but slightly in favour of the Str 10 in glancing AV12.

I still think he's a solid choice, that's why I think GW did a good job with him, yes he lost a 6+ f'n'p, I do think the dead shot rule is supposed to allow the Vindicare to call precision shots on all shots though, as otherwise its superfluous with the Sniper rule which gives precision shot anyway.

Culexus went beast mode however, this more than makes up for any nerf to the others....

Life Drain- CC attacks ignores armour, instant death on a 6, instant death on any wound caused to a psyker (sorry tyranids)
Psychic abomination - Psykers at -3Ld with 12", no warp charges generated within 12", powers only cast on a 6 within 12", invalidates blessings and maledictions within 12"
Etherium war gear - attacks vs. culexus made at BS and WS 1 (though he also causes fear?)
Animas Spectrum - Similar to before one shot per mastery level within 12", but can now be boosted with up to 3 unspent warp charges. The mastery level thing does stop people from building brotherhood batteries though, as brotherhood of psykers count the unit as mastery level (x).

And he has preferred enemy (psykers) too.... this guy is going to shut down any deathstar that relies on psy-powers....

[daboarder]

Once again, why do you partake in a hobby that obviously brings you nothing but pain?

But...but....you and those like you are constantly screaming that GW is not "the hobby" is that wrong? Or just more hypocrisy?

On a serious note. I give GW credit when I feel its due. The tragedy is that those moments are getting fewer and farther between. I do look forward to these decisions by them if only to see what justification the apologists come up with next.

In other news I might just use the culexus rules for mg DoM model...because you know. Another GREAT decision by GW there

Edit: oh and I think it is probably fair to say I contribute more positive posts to this forum I a month or so than you do in a year...but who really cares about hobby/tactics and missions when theres justifying to be done!

[biteymcrunrun]

Are they roughly the same points as before?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Here I was hoping for an interesting tactica thread. Let's set aside daboarder's potential disdain for GW as that's his prerogative.

I'm thinking the Culexus would be tonnes of fun to Ally in with my Guard, but god damn Vindicares are cool. The ability to smack Psykers into a pulp with the Culexus is too alluring, though.

[daboarder]

we dont really know enough beyond the basics of what each of the 4 temples will obviously entail. the slate hasnt been released yet as far as I am aware

[Blood Shadow]

we dont really know enough beyond the basics of what each of the 4 temples will obviously entail. the slate hasnt been released yet as far as I am aware

I downloaded it this morning....

Points costs are same plus the cost of a Melta bomb....

There's also no RAW that I can see preventing multiple detachments of Assassins so you could take a Culexus and a vindicare. There's a cool formation for just shy of 600 points where you get one of each with all getting PE (Warlord) kind of cool for the Vindicare and Eversor basically gives the vindicare 2+ reroll to hit and wound with hellfires, it improves the other 4+ To wound shots too (similar to before, except shield breaker just ignores invulnerable and cover saves).

Eversor has always been my favourite, I think of him like the Warner Brothers Taz character....he's no longer got a lightning claw....instead he gets 8A on the charge with either a powersword AP3 or 8 AP- 2+ Poisoned shred attacks..... Decent vs marines or hordes, especially at Int 7!

I'm not sure if it mentions battle brothers or transports, but an Eversor on his own in a storm raven, now they get move through cover they can safely deep strike out. But if you can infiltrate from the start not sure if it's worth it.

[daboarder]

oh I dont doubt you have it mate, I mean it hasn't been widely distributed, nor do we have very specific details for exactly HOW the units work these days. so any tactics articles are going t be little thin.

Personally I would really apreciate it if you could provide specifics on the culexus assasin?
Is he painful to your own psykers or just the enemies? whats his shooting attack do these days etc...

[Blood Shadow]

Culexus went beast mode however, this more than makes up for any nerf to the others....

Life Drain- CC attacks ignores armour, instant death on a 6, instant death on any wound caused to a psyker (sorry tyranids)
Psychic abomination - Psykers at -3Ld with 12", no warp charges generated within 12", powers only cast on a 6 within 12", invalidates blessings and maledictions within 12"
Etherium war gear - attacks vs. culexus made at BS and WS 1 (though he also causes fear?)
Animas Spectrum - Similar to before one shot per mastery level within 12", but can now be boosted with up to 3 unspent warp charges. The mastery level thing does stop people from building brotherhood batteries though, as brotherhood of psykers count the unit as mastery level (x).

And he has preferred enemy (psykers) too.... this guy is going to shut down any deathstar that relies on psy-powers....

Basically this, as mentioned no warp charges, blessings or maledictions within 12" - this applies to friend and foe alike. You can still cast powers within 12" but need a 6+ to harness.

The assassin detachment is 1 Assassin (Elite) that's it, no other requirements needed to unlock it.

The Animas Spectrum is 18" S5 AP1 assault X

[Arkhan Land]

Dizamn I was hoping for some info or units from the other temples, the one that focuses on poisons and isnt there one that focuses on economic/poitcal manipulation?

[Charon]

Both do rather try not to take part in any form of physical conflict. You mean the Venenum and Vanus Temples.

[DarkLink]

Are they still T4 2w? No one took them before because they were crazy fragile.

[Arkhan Land]

Both do rather try not to take part in any form of physical conflict. You mean the Venenum and Vanus Temples.

Yep those are the ones. I think though even on a battle field either of these guys would have some sort of worthwhile defense mechanisms or army boosts.

For example with Veneum could be able to somehow inflict a wound or two on an IC/Infantry unit on moderatley difficult dice roll before deployment in addition to some sort of poisoned attack and maybe a defense mechanism similar to that of Nids acid blood.

the Vanus could allow for some sort of deployment bonus/powers, like the ability to force rerolls on succesful reserve rolls or bonuses to seizing the initiative, I also assume that out of all of the assassins hes probably the psyker of the lot. Maybe hook him up with some sort of specialized concealment/reveal, or the ability to "blink" around the board.

[Blood Shadow]

Both do rather try not to take part in any form of physical conflict. You mean the Venenum and Vanus Temples.

They get honourable mentions in the fluff section, but no rules.

As for Wounds they're all 3W a piece now

[40kGamer]

Well I am obviously clueless with all the new digital crap! Do you have to have an iPad to use the new Assassin Dataslate? Do they evetually release basic pdfs for this stuff?

[Blood Shadow]

For the interactive edition you'll need access to ibooks so one type of Apple device or another (Mac,iPad,iPhone,iPod what's it)

BUT there is also a cheaper ebook version that can be viewed on any ebook reader on android phones and tablets etc, regular PC. Well worth doing...

.. I really don't mind paying the extra for the iBook though, the interactive features are so much better than scrolling back and forth between sections.

[Charon]

Yep those are the ones. I think though even on a battle field either of these guys would have some sort of worthwhile defense mechanisms or army boosts.

For example with Veneum could be able to somehow inflict a wound or two on an IC/Infantry unit on moderatley difficult dice roll before deployment in addition to some sort of poisoned attack and maybe a defense mechanism similar to that of Nids acid blood.

the Vanus could allow for some sort of deployment bonus/powers, like the ability to force rerolls on succesful reserve rolls or bonuses to seizing the initiative, I also assume that out of all of the assassins hes probably the psyker of the lot. Maybe hook him up with some sort of specialized concealment/reveal, or the ability to "blink" around the board.

If they have to take part in any battle, they messed up.
Yes they all are assassines but not all assassines are highly trained killer machines. The Vanus is basically a hacker. Nothing anywhere near the combat temples. He sits in his hideout and does his stuff "online". If he gets caught he is not entirely defenseless (about the same level as a IG vet) but nowhere near any battlefield threat. The Vanus would be best represented through strategy cards like in apoc. Not through a model actually on the field.
Nearly the same is for Venenum Assassines.

[Katharon]

Turbo rounds become Str 10 vs vehicles

S10 with armorbane right?

[Wildcard]

Are assassins "unique" or can you take 2-3 Vindicares for example in one way or another?

[JMichael]

For the interactive edition you'll need access to ibooks so one type of Apple device or another (Mac,iPad,iPhone,iPod what's it)

BUT there is also a cheaper ebook version that can be viewed on any ebook reader on android phones and tablets etc, regular PC. Well worth doing...

.. I really don't mind paying the extra for the iBook though, the interactive features are so much better than scrolling back and forth between sections.

I don't own Apple products and thus use the ebook. I find the .mobi version better quality and formatting. I read it in my Kindle app on my phone, tablet, and computer.

- - - Updated - - -

How did you get the digital dataslates? They are only up for pre-order on the Black Library site with a listed release date of September (though I had seen other sources say 8/23).

[40kGamer]

I don't own Apple products and thus use the ebook. I find the .mobi version better quality and formatting. I read it in my Kindle app on my phone, tablet, and computer.

- - - Updated - - -

How did you get the digital dataslates? They are only up for pre-order on the Black Library site with a listed release date of September (though I had seen other sources say 8/23).

The GW site has an Apple version up today but it does look like the other ebooks version is still a few weeks out. Do you have to have something special loaded on your PC to read the Ebook version? I do not want a tablet and am still on a flip phone. :p

[JMichael]

The GW site has an Apple version up today but it does look like the other ebooks version is still a few weeks out. Do you have to have something special loaded on your PC to read the Ebook version? I do not want a tablet and am still on a flip phone. :p

I use the free Amazon Kindle app to read all of my .mobi books. I'm sure there are other ebook (.pub and .mobi) readers available too.

[JMichael]

The GW site has an Apple version up today but it does look like the other ebooks version is still a few weeks out. Do you have to have something special loaded on your PC to read the Ebook version? I do not want a tablet and am still on a flip phone. :p

Well poop! I may just have to buy it on my girl's iPad! I'm playing in a GW league and we can add unit(s) next week and I really want to add an assassin to my Sisters!

[Blood Shadow]

No armour bane just Str10

No assassins are not unique....provided you're allowed to take multiple detachments (i.e. Standard rules) you could take 3 vindicares and a couple of Culexus though be around 700 points for 5 models with 4+ saves

Been rereading the Callidas rules, basically she has precision strikes on a 6 to hit, 6's to wound are "phasing wounds" which ignore invulnerable saves.

The template pistol no longer tests vs. Ld just a straight up AP2 template that causes wounds on a 4+

Callidus also can choose to attack with poison blades instead of the phase sword, they're poisoned 3+ with rending

[JMichael]

eBook version can now be purchased (I just bought mine)!

[hyudun]

BTW, Str 10 is better than 4d6 against everything BUT AV 14.

10804

Edit: 14 or higher I should say, with some of those buildings going to AV 15...

[hyudun]

I realize I'm not taking into account rending (too late for me to try and figure it out), but I think at most it may change my statement to Str 10 being better for AV 12- and 4d6 being better for AV 13+.

Edit: also realizing from other places that apparently some people were playing it as 4d6+4 instead... No point in arguing old rules, but I just found it an interesting question to try and answer.

[Katharon]

Does the anti-armor round also deal 2 wounds, and not merely one, against MCs like it use to or did they change that?

[Neelam]

Does the anti-armor round also deal 2 wounds, and not merely one, against MCs like it use to or did they change that?

"Against all other targets, shots from a turbo-penetrator round inflict D3 Wounds, rather than just 1."

The wording seems a little off with Deadshot but I assume it means all successful hits are considered Precision Shots ? :

"Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, have the Precision Shots special rule."

[Halollet]

I just got the dataslate and here are my first impressions of the assassins. I've played them since they came out and I'm REALLY happy with the way they are right now!

Vinicare
He does what he has always done. The ignore cover, precision shots, and penalty to look out sir is glorious though. He's really good to take that last wound off the warlord to get that extra VP.

Callidus
Always been my favorite and I'm going to play her lots. She has a lot of rules that just make me lol. 1" I filtration? Lol. Snap shot on the turn she arrives? Lol. -3 on first reserve roll? Lol. Very disruptive model. Love it!

Eversor
This guy is interesting. Defiantly anti horde and I'm so happy he still explodes. However, he doesnt have a cc weapon with an ap value, the trade off is fleshbane which I find really interesting. He can take out a wraightknight just as easily as he can take out 5 space marines! Definatly a nasty piece of work.

Culexus
Oh man... This guy is just so scary! Oh you got invisibility off? *shuffle shuffle* and now its gone. Lmao! This thing is one badass models that gw has come out with in a while. There are a lot of things you can pull of with this guy. And his cc attacks just straight up ignoring armour saves and causing instant death to psykers? Oh man! Love it!

I wish I got this excited about all gw releases. If I may make a suggestion, we should all speak with our wallets and buy the crap out of this to show gw that this is what we want; a fun game!

I'm really happy with this. I think I might take the culexus with my tau to help negate psykers and the like. Plus pinning!

[Charon]

I wish I got this excited about all gw releases. If I may make a suggestion, we should all speak with our wallets and buy the crap out of this to show gw that this is what we want; a fun game!

Unless you are a non-imperial player. In this case you get kicks in the balls for free.

[Blood Shadow]

Eversor
However, he doesnt have a cc weapon with an ap value, the trade off is fleshbane which I find really interesting.

He comes with an AP3 powersword, so it's choose between attacking with 2+ flesh bane AP- or wounding T4 on a 4+ AP3

[Katharon]

Btw, am I the only one who wishes that they'd had some variation in the stat line for the Assassins? I kept expecting to see things like the Vindicare having the highest BS, the Eversor having the highest WS and most base Attacks, a Callidus & Culexus being in between the previous two in BS & WS. Eversor being T5. The Callidus having a higher Reflex Save due to being the most lithe and elusive. Things like that.

Instead we just got a single Stat Line without any variation or "character." It's hard to be disappointed with the kind of stat line that they gave us, but I'm still sad to see some of the story-esque characteristics fall to the wayside.

[Blood Shadow]

I know what you mean, for me if the vindicare is the best shot in the galaxy he should be BS10 otherwise were looking at 8 as being the max, not that 8 isn't awesome. If they'd released stats for the Vanus hacker would they have given him the same statline, he's an assassin too!

One thing I did notice is how good assassins are vs. other assassins, the Callidas will have the Vindicare quaking in his boots, whereas the Eversor is a pretty decent counter to the Callidas and Culexus. I like what this means to the tactics of deploying infiltrators first/ second.

If taking the vindicare it could be worth taking a squad of scouts to provide a 1" bubble wrap, the Callidas is a time bomb, at most you're going to get two turns of shooting before she charges in.

The Karamazov + Callidas strike just became a viable first turn attack to drop D3 pie plates/ or Psykout/ Str10 AP1 lance on an opponents high level threat from an inch away, this is viable every turn so long as the Callidas survives. I'd save the Str10 until she's locked in combat with a high value squad of say Terminators or paladins, a small blast over a single model surrounded in CC will hit quite a few guys (6max I think).

[John Bower]

Reading precision shots RAW he still only gets them on a 6; RAI I'd say that's a **** up in the print that should have read 'All his shots are treated as 'precision shots'' which would make more sense; I think TFG could call you out if you try to pick out his character with it. But I wouldn't as after all the guy's an assassin it's what he's trained since almost birth to do.

[Charon]

I know what you mean, for me if the vindicare is the best shot in the galaxy

The best HUMAN. And thats where statlines really get odd. Herpderp I trained 30y and im faster and better than an 300y old Chaptermaster.

Or even better:

DP: Oh yes, after 10.000 years of constant warfare I received the ultimate gift of daemonhood! Tremble mortals!
IA: Well after a few decades of training I still kick your butt easily, seems like the Space Marine plus Daemon thingie is a big waste of time.
DP: ...

[Blood Shadow]

The best HUMAN. And thats where statlines really get odd. Herpderp I trained 30y and im faster and better than an 300y old Chaptermaster.

I'd imagine his eyes would be going at that age...

To be fair I imagine it's also the assassin war gear and reliance on stimulants which would make it impossible to reach more than 30.

[daboarder]

Reading precision shots RAW he still only gets them on a 6; RAI I'd say that's a **** up in the print that should have read 'All his shots are treated as 'precision shots'' which would make more sense; I think TFG could call you out if you try to pick out his character with it. But I wouldn't as after all the guy's an assassin it's what he's trained since almost birth to do.

Following the rules NEVER makes you TFG, he has precision shots....that is all, wouldn't be the first time GW has done this....or are you going to let me take shrouded on my lictors? After all they USED to have 2+ cover sv?

Actually, Given how often you claim that not allowing the bending of the rules makes your Opponent TFG, you are sounding like TFG

[Katharon]

The best HUMAN. And thats where statlines really get odd. Herpderp I trained 30y and im faster and better than an 300y old Chaptermaster.

Focused upon a single facet of warfare.

A Chapter Master by comparison is trained to fight and dominate (to one level or another) in all fields and facets of warfare, diplomacy (between Imperium factions), logistics, leadership, interpersonal skills (to one level or another), strategic and tactical analysis, etc.

It's not hard to see how even a HUMAN could be better at one thing in particular than a Space Marine -- even a Chapter Master.

[daboarder]

Whatever, I'm reasonably sure we can all agree that Illic Nightspear is probably better than a non-named Vindicare.....

[Katharon]

Whatever, I'm reasonably sure we can all agree that Illic Nightspear is probably better than a non-named Vindicare.....

If Illic could get close enough to him before he got shot... ;)

[daboarder]

If Illic could get close enough to him before he got shot... ;)

Mate, he's not a loyalist. do you really expect his rules to be decent?

[MajorWesJanson]

Unless you are a non-imperial player. In this case you get kicks in the balls for free.

Why? Assassins work fine on their own, so the limitation of 6-12" away from the rest of your army for desperate allies/come the apocalypse is not a major problem.

[Charon]

No, the 12" away is not the problem. Its rather the personal justification to have loyalist models in an non-imperial army.

Also every imperial faction can make use of the others vehicles and psi, all others get the middle finger.

[Krefey]

No, the 12" away is not the problem. Its rather the personal justification to have loyalist models in an non-imperial army.

Also every imperial faction can make use of the others vehicles and psi, all others get the middle finger.

I could jsutify an Ork player having a vindicare in his army against my Celestial Lions marines :P

[Anggul]

I was under the impression that Imperial Assassins were extensively modified. I didn't think they were just human. Obviously they aren't made giant like Astartes, but I thought they were improved.

[Charon]

They are improved. But the extent is rather debatable.
In Nemesis the Eversor was the only one of the pack who could kill a Space Marine in melee and that barely, getting himself seriously wounded. Their Tabletop representation kills even Chaos Lords without much of a thought by having better base stats and better equipment at a much lower price.

[DWest]

They are improved. But the extent is rather debatable.
In Nemesis the Eversor was the only one of the pack who could kill a Space Marine in melee and that barely, getting himself seriously wounded. Their Tabletop representation kills even Chaos Lords without much of a thought by having better base stats and better equipment at a much lower price.
I chalk that up to Nemesis being rubbish, but that's an argument for a different section of the forums.

[Anggul]

They are improved. But the extent is rather debatable.
In Nemesis the Eversor was the only one of the pack who could kill a Space Marine in melee and that barely, getting himself seriously wounded. Their Tabletop representation kills even Chaos Lords without much of a thought by having better base stats and better equipment at a much lower price.

In fairness they didn't have all of the fancy weapons they do now. Didn't the Eversor kill the marine with a sharpened piece of a crashed ship used as a shiv, and possibly even the Marine's own helmet?

The Callidus didn't have a phase blade, just that polymorphic blade. They all had the skill, speed and reactions to kill an astartes, but not the gear.

I can't see any of them killing a Chaos Lord in close combat. Even without a 2+ armour save an Eversor isn't likely to kill the Lord in one round of attacks and that's including the many extra attacks for charging. The Chaos Lord will then swing back and has a good chance of splatting the Eversor. With a 2+ armour save the Lord will win pretty easily.

[daboarder]

I chalk that up to Nemesis being rubbish, but that's an argument for a different section of the forums.

Well both perfection and throne of lies have callidus assasins being in similar situation against other startes.

I think its fair to say that an assassin is unable to generally take even a basic space marine, unless they are able to stack the odds heavily in their favour

[Anggul]

Well both perfection and throne of lies have callidus assasins being in similar situation against other startes.

I think its fair to say that an assassin is unable to generally take even a basic space marine, unless they are able to stack the odds heavily in their favour

I don't agree at all. They're quicker and more skilled so with the right gear they can kill them without too much difficulty. Without a power weapon or some other special weapon they couldn't. That's no different to saying a Vindicare would be much less effective against a Marine if you replaced his exitus rifle with a hunting rifle though. The same goes for a Marine against many things. Wargear is a big deal in 40k.

A Callidus with more generically powerful weapons is going to have a hard time, but a Callidus with a phase blade or an Eversor with a power sword is going to carve through them.

[daboarder]

I don't agree at all. They're quicker and more skilled so with the right gear they can kill them without too much difficulty. Without a power weapon or some other special weapon they couldn't. That's no different to saying a Vindicare would be much less effective against a Marine if you replaced his exitus rifle with a hunting rifle though. The same goes for a Marine against many things. Wargear is a big deal in 40k.

A Callidus with more generically powerful weapons is going to have a hard time, but a Callidus with a phase blade or an Eversor with a power sword is going to carve through them.

think what you want, but the background suggests otherwise

[EVIL INC]

For you xenos who want to use assassins, now is the time to have fun converting. No one is to say that the different xenos races wouldnt have their own variants. Imagine an ork wild boy on shrooms going crazy like an eveseror a sniper stormboy or any other weird combination you prefer to create your own personalized assassin.

[Charon]

While "counts as" is acceptable to an extent, they still cant board transports, be targetet by friendly psi powers or benefit from other buffs.

That 50% of all existing armies are battlebrothers while the other 50% got 1 Battlebrother maximum (poor nids) outrights sucks. It sucks even more that the loyalists always get the major portion of the cake plus all the cherries.
Hey we haven an Ranger who does this sniping job since thousands of years with an pre fall tech sniper rifle... herpderp we haven an agumented human how trains since 30 years with better skillz... btw his imperial special munition is better that your prefall eldar tech.

[JMichael]

For you xenos who want to use assassins, now is the time to have fun converting. No one is to say that the different xenos races wouldnt have their own variants. Imagine an ork wild boy on shrooms going crazy like an eveseror a sniper stormboy or any other weird combination you prefer to create your own personalized assassin.

Awesome idea! I love the Ork shroom eversor idea!

[Demonus]

For you xenos who want to use assassins, now is the time to have fun converting. No one is to say that the different xenos races wouldnt have their own variants. Imagine an ork wild boy on shrooms going crazy like an eveseror a sniper stormboy or any other weird combination you prefer to create your own personalized assassin.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Use whatever model you want, "counts as" assassin X. Make cool fluff for your model. Done.

[John Bower]

I agree; I think had I been GW assassins would have been 'factionless' for game purposes, Battle bros with whoever since surely almost all races would have them. Not sure about Orks tbh as they're too brutal for it except yeah, perhaps the Eversor. Eldar certainly wouldn't be above using them and I think Tau too. Daemons could just use a 'possessed' assassin. Chaos would pretty much use a 'converted' assassin to do their dirty work.

Might actually House rule that in my campaign; assassins being 'factionless'.