No 1st Turn Charge

[Demonus]

So my opponent claimed that you can now charge first turn. I was pretty sure you could only charge going second. Was this rule changed or is it still in effect? If so, could someone please point out the pg # in rulebook?

Also the following scenario came up:

WolfLord charged group of guys with 3 TWC buddies. Challenged accepted by Sgt. Sgt died to Hammer of Wrath. Would wolflord (init 1) now get his attacks on the rest of squad, or is he just out of luck?

Thanks

[Wolfshade]

The only way you could end up charging is if you had Scout or Inflitrate both of which say you can't charge on the first game turn.

I think that is slightly re-worded (from 6th) as you could originally change if you were player 2 on turn 1

(Pg 171 Scout, Pg 167 infiltrate)

[Demonus]

Scenario was he had 1st turn. Scouted his two tanks forward. I then stole initiative and his tanks were within charge range (Imp Knight and TWC )

[Wolfshade]

If the units charging didn't scout/infiltrate then that's fine.

I think those are the only two restrictions of charging in turn 1.

A similiar situation would arise assaulting a squad that had arrived in your deployment zone from deepstrike/teleport.

[Charon]

I think the "rule" for no charge at all on player turn 1 was in the 6th edition FAQ. The rules itself also only mentioned infiltrate and scout. With the old FAQ gone and the new one rather... thin, its perfectly fine now.

[Demonus]

Ok thanks. Definitely odd when I heard him say it. I wondered why he was adamant about losing when he rolled right up to my Knight Titan and then I seized LOL. I respectfully didn't charge him in case the rule was still there. He hopped out with 12 melta guns into my Knight titan to thank me.... Wolves prevail 13-12 though

[Mr Mystery]

If the units charging didn't scout/infiltrate then that's fine.

I think those are the only two restrictions of charging in turn 1.

A similiar situation would arise assaulting a squad that had arrived in your deployment zone from deepstrike/teleport.

Yup. Best way to look at it, you can first turn charge, unless you have Scouted, Deep Struck or Infiltrated. And even then the odd Deep Strike unit might have an additional special rule allowing them to do so, as normally Deep Strike prevents you charging whichever turn you land.

[hyudun]

Also the following scenario came up:

WolfLord charged group of guys with 3 TWC buddies. Challenged accepted by Sgt. Sgt died to Hammer of Wrath. Would wolflord (init 1) now get his attacks on the rest of squad, or is he just out of luck?


"If a character that is involved in a challenge slays his opponent, each excess Wound inflicted by the victor is then allocated, one at a time, to the next nearest enemy model that is locked in the combat." (Emphasis mine) (Characters -> Challenges -> Fighting a Challenge)

He gets to allocate WOUNDS to the rest of the squad, but the scenario here is that the Attacks haven't been converted to Wounds yet, so the question is what stats do we use to convert the Attacks to Wounds? Whose WS and T do we use - the character, or the squad?

"For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact with each other and, when rolling To Hit and To Wound, they always use the Weapon Skill and Toughness of their opponent." (Emphasis mine) (Characters -> Challenges -> Fighting a Challenge)

OK, so while the Challenge is going on, you have to use the character's WS and T when converting attacks to wounds. Now, how do we determine the duration of a Challenge? Unfortunately, I didn't find an explicit definition. However, I think the following excerpt gives us a decent implied definition:

"When one of the combatants in a challenge is slain, regardless of which Initiative Step it is, the challenge is still considered to be ongoing until the end of the phase for the purposes of Outside Forces." (Emphasis mine) (Characters -> Challenges -> Fighting a Challenge -> Combatant slain)

So the fact that this needed to be called out implies that for all other purposes, the Challenge is considered to be ended when one of the combatants is slain.

BTW, Outside Forces is not applicable to your Wolf Lord in this scenario because the rule is about "other models [not in the Challenge]" and whether or not they're allowed to allocate wounds to your Wolf Lord while he's in a Challenge. Not quoted since it's not relevant.

My ruling: if you kill your opponent in a Challenge and have further attacks at a lower initiative step, resolve those attacks against the rest of the squad at the squad's WS and T. Keep in mind that your opponent is NOT allowed to allocate wounds to your Wolf Lord until all other models in the assault are dead, until the next assault phase - and even then only if another Challenge is not issued & accepted.

[marful]

It should be noted that the rules for Scout and Infiltrate specifically state that the unit that used those rules cannot charge in the assault phase for the first game turn.

If you look up "Game Turn" in the beginning of the rule book it explains that a "game turn" is both player's turns together.

So even if a player deployed via infiltrate or moved forward via scouts and then went second, they would still have to wait till the second GAME TURN before those unit's could assault.

[DarkLink]

The only way you could end up charging is if you had Scout or Inflitrate both of which say you can't charge on the first game turn.


Your opponent can scout towards you, though, leaving themselves in charge range.

[Wolfshade]

Your opponent can scout towards you, though, leaving themselves in charge range.

As was what happened since scout occurs before seize the initiative.

[John Bower]

It should be noted that the rules for Scout and Infiltrate specifically state that the unit that used those rules cannot charge in the assault phase for the first game turn.

If you look up "Game Turn" in the beginning of the rule book it explains that a "game turn" is both player's turns together.

So even if a player deployed via infiltrate or moved forward via scouts and then went second, they would still have to wait till the second GAME TURN before those unit's could assault.

Just to be a bit pedantic but that is a misquote regarding Infiltrators; they aren't allowed to charge in 'their' first turn. Same difference but just wanted to make it clear so you aren't called out on it.