Is 7th Edition the Time?

[xbenblasterx]

Hey there BOLS forum!

Boy o' boy has it been a while since I've posted here! Well I last played toward the latter stages of 5th edition, however I somewhat fell out of love with this hobby that I coveted for much of my life when 6th edition rolled into town and well with university, job, life, game man just a whole bunch o' stuff really! I pretty muched haven't picked up any dice nor a paint brush for the past two years.

But recently I poked my nose into the hobby just a little and man things sure have changed! It seems to me that GW have really stepped up their game quality wise. So I've been thinking.....

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Is 7th Edition the time to jump back in, I'm sure this is a very difficult question to answer cause as always this hobby depends upon a lot of factors, but In the past I have to say this has been the best forum I've ever been a part of and well I wanted to get your views on whether 7th edition is a good time for a returning player? Is the hobby on the rise? Or do alternate games continue to chew up the market and I'll still struggle to find a game?

hmm tough aye?

Well cheers folks!

- xbenblasterx

[Perturbed Machine Spirit]

I've just jumped into 40k starting with 7th edition. I think the answers to your question will be widely varied depending on the location of the poster. 40k is thriving in my area (which is the reason I chose it over other games) while most alternative games are nonexistent. Whether or not you will struggle to find a game is dependent on 40k's popularity in your specific area.

[Voltigeur]

The game has changed a lot since the end of fifth. Whether that change has been for better or worse, is the subject of endless debate. I can tell you that personally I have never had more fun with the game! I play in a casual game group with my friends and we have a blast. I have heard/read many complaints this edition can be rough for pickup gamers and tournament gamers so if you enjoy playing in those scenarios your mileage may vary.

[jmimbs]

I just got into 40k recently, just as 6th edition was on its way out actually. I can say that for me 7th edition has only served to increase my excitement about the game.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

If you want to get in again, at the start of a new edition is always a good time. There's a lot of buzz, the metagames aren't set in stone yet.

I came back to it at the start of 5th, after being out of it for about eight years. :)

[40kGamer]

It's definitely a different game now that favors a more casual environment. Tournaments and pick up games have taken a hit in my area as the rules have became less restrictive. The crazy fast pace of releases has also created an ever shifting meta too. As long as there is a solid 40k group in your area you should definitely have a look. :)

[Gamgee]

I jumped in on 7th.

[xbenblasterx]

Have you ever played the game prior? How are you finding it?

[Chumbalaya]

As someone who's played 40k since 3rd, 7th has basically killed my interest in the game. The mechanics are clunky and archaic, game balance is a complete crapshoot, any concept of individual army identity is all but gone and GW appears to only care about turning a quick buck instead of growing the game and hobby.

[DarkLink]

It's a much better version of 6th, at least, as long as you avoid delving too deep into the detachment shenanigans.

[daboarder]

It's a much better version of 6th, at least, as long as you avoid delving too deep into the detachment shenanigans.

hmm yes this is valid, you also have to accept that GW botched the change on certain rules. Heres looking at you Shadow in the Warp and Valedor Capillary towers, SERIOUSLY! that damn book was released a WEEK before 7th and they couldnt sort that **** out

[Gamgee]

Have you ever played the game prior? How are you finding it?

I've only observed a few games and fought some with proxies while I build my Tau. (Not endless time guy here). So far I got to say I like it. I had minimal experience with 6th rules. Mainly to look up how to convert the gun stats into the RPG lines which I GM for. So far I'm liking it. I don't feel I have enough skill to make broad sweeping claims one way or the other though other than one thing....

Screw Newcrons and why did they have to suddenly release DE, I wanted to start with them but was advised not to due to old rules. Now rumors have them pegged as soon to be updated. Oh well... for the greater good I suppose.

[xbenblasterx]

It's a much better version of 6th, at least, as long as you avoid delving too deep into the detachment shenanigans.

The detachments was certainly something that drove me away from 6th edition, i didn't really like the idea of seeing armies allied with each other that fluff wise simply wouldnt happen! A large part of what makes this game enjoyable to me is the immersion into the lore while i'm playing. Is there still an awful lot of that going into the book?

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Cheers for the great response guys such a mixed bag! I think i'm still kind of on the fence though, i used to play Grey Knights and it seems that there recieveing a new book soon so amay jump on that!

In terms of GW does it still seem like there intent upon running their company into the ground with constant price hikes and pretty much turning their company into a Space Marine machine?

Also whats the deal with WD now? How comes its weekly! Is it any good? The old monthly issues got to be nought but glorified catalogues.

[CoffeeGrunt]

They've made the allegiances much stricter, which ruined a lot of good army builds sadly. Traitor Guard was one that got kicked in the nuts pretty hard. Personally I preferred the 6th Ed "run it if you can make it work" system.

[Chumbalaya]

Cheers for the great response guys such a mixed bag! I think i'm still kind of on the fence though, i used to play Grey Knights and it seems that there recieveing a new book soon so amay jump on that!

In terms of GW does it still seem like there intent upon running their company into the ground with constant price hikes and pretty much turning their company into a Space Marine machine?

Also whats the deal with WD now? How comes its weekly! Is it any good? The old monthly issues got to be nought but glorified catalogues.

Here's my recommendation for anyone thinking of getting in to 40k. Do you already have models? If so, find a good group and you can have some fun. If you don't, there are a metric ton of other games out there with better quality rules, better value and great models. Dropzone Commander, Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars, All Quiet on the Martian Front, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes, X-Wing, Dark Age and so on. There's even better 40k games, like the LCG and RPGs.

WD is now weekly, basically an advertising pamphlet, but they sometimes release rules in it you can't get anywhere else. So yay.

[SnakeChisler]

Its great and miles better than 6th

There are issues and its and 6/7th have made a right mess of competition play in our area but club play is still going strong and a lot more variety creeping in.

More of us are organizing campaign style games with our friends and using some formations, all in all its really flexible. Your always going to get some who just can't resist the lure of win at all costs but as long as your engaging within your group you normally can find some sort of compromise.

Nearly all my games in 7th as they were in 6th have been single CAD no allies as have my opponents and Maelstrom has featured highly.

[xbenblasterx]

Here's my recommendation for anyone thinking of getting in to 40k. Do you already have models? If so, find a good group and you can have some fun. If you don't, there are a metric ton of other games out there with better quality rules, better value and great models. Dropzone Commander, Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars, All Quiet on the Martian Front, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes, X-Wing, Dark Age and so on. There's even better 40k games, like the LCG and RPGs.

WD is now weekly, basically an advertising pamphlet, but they sometimes release rules in it you can't get anywhere else. So yay.

Ya' know I tried Warmachine and Hordes a couple of years back didn't really get on the with the rules. Now please don't consider me an idiot ha, but one of the things I enjoy most about 40K is the simplicity of the rules. I also enjoy the fluff big time and the figures, damn I'm kinda convincing myself now aint I!

But I don't have the models anymore is there another game you'd recommend I give a try?

cheers guys!

[Chumbalaya]

There's nothing simple about 40k currently. There's too many rules in too many places, exceptions upon exceptions and a lot of needless clutter. On top of that, you have Codices, Supplements, WD rules, dataslates, Forge World, Digital Editions, Formations, allies and so on.

If you want a game that's easy to pick up, I'd recommend X-Wing. It's cheap, quick to learn and an incredibly well balanced and intuitive ruleset. Being a Star Wars game is a bonus.

If you love the lore of 40k, look into RPGs like Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Deathwatch. They are incredible sources of fluff and make for a fun game too.

If you break down and just want to play 40k, try One Page 40k: http://onepagerules.wordpress.com/ Simple system, good gameplay and it's free!

[Mike X]

As someone who's played 40k since 3rd, 7th has basically killed my interest in the game. The mechanics are clunky and archaic, game balance is a complete crapshoot, any concept of individual army identity is all but gone and GW appears to only care about turning a quick buck instead of growing the game and hobby.

I'm with you entirely, the only difference is I've been playing since 4th.

[Katharon]

I was in the hobby during 2nd and the beginning of 3rd, but got out before 3.5. I got back in half-way through 5th and have been happy with it so far. I am slightly disappointed in the further money-grabs and pandering that GW seems to be going towards more and more these days, not to mention that some of the sandbox aspect of the game can now leave you gasping for water in the middle of the Sahara, lost...but all in all things are good.

[Auticus]

6th and 7th in my area resulted in the tournament players mass exodus to warmachine/hoardes and an influx of players from 2nd and 3rd returning plus a new crop of narrative gamers.

It will depend on your area of course as every area is different. For me, I dropped out at the tail end of 4th and most of 5th because I was not happy with the game or armies that were out, and I have exponentially more fun with the current version of the game minus a couple of niggling issues that I can live with.

[xbenblasterx]

6th and 7th in my area resulted in the tournament players mass exodus to warmachine/hoardes and an influx of players from 2nd and 3rd returning plus a new crop of narrative gamers.

It will depend on your area of course as every area is different. For me, I dropped out at the tail end of 4th and most of 5th because I was not happy with the game or armies that were out, and I have exponentially more fun with the current version of the game minus a couple of niggling issues that I can live with.

At a risk of coming across all romantic, would you say that the game has become less competitive, probably owing to the fact I'm actually pretty bad at the playing side but I still enjoy a good game, but I've always enjoyed the more narrative elements of the game and not so much it's competitive nature. I think I might prefer a game that was less hardcore.

[CoffeeGrunt]

In our area there isn't really a tournament presence, so 40K 7th Edition has been thriving lately, and we've got a half dozen people or so who've started playing since it dropped, (given the two dozen or so playerbase of our small store in a small town, it's not too bad IMO.)

WarmaHordes has rocked up and has a half dozen or so people playing, and a lot more interested. So far it seems that the two systems may co-exist in peace. Personally I think it would come down to mood. 40K I generally play with friends as a catalyst for a chat and a catch up. WarmaHordes demands a lot of concentration and tight rules lawyering on movement, LoS and the like which makes for more of a gambit between two gents rather than a casual dice throwing exercise.

[xbenblasterx]

All the differing opinions here, I suppose It's good to see how the whole wargaming hobby is branching out in general, but obviously I think involving yourself in one particular game is quite a big investment both time and money wise. I really enjoyed 40k in the past, the lore, the models, the community it's all been great!

But having getting back in touch with it now it seems that GW in general aren't in the best of positions, so maybe it's best to to climb aboard the sinking ship. Then again maybe competition will force GW to adapt, change and overall improve. In the same way the console market works.

What do people reckon?

Obviously those of you already in bed with plastic crack mistress may have biased opinions, but from an outsider looking in?is 40k still the peak or is it time to roll my dice else where... *more terrible wargaming based puns will follow).

[BrotherErekose]

I'm the opposite of Chumbalaya, in how I feel. I like it. :)

I came in to 40k at the beginning of 4e (2004), and have continually played through now.

I think 5e may have been been the argumentatively best edition. It eliminated many of 4e's glaringly broken items (Consolidate into a *new* h2h combat? :eek: ) and was a good fast paced game.

6e was a distinctly different direction, with lotsa issues.

7e is still *really* good. It's like 5e's improvement on 4e, only for 6e. A lot of wonky 6e mechanics are gone, while keeping many of the cool, new items from 6e. It's not the stream-lined game 5e was, but still a fun, but complex exercise in killing Plastic Space Men. And no real killer stupid mechanics (not a cue to bring the ones that *do* exist up. Let's stay on Topic :) ).

Yes. Jumping back in is a good idea. A whole buncha new codexes in rapid succession means it's going to continually shift the meta and be new and challenging and dynamic for a long time.

[xbenblasterx]

I'm the opposite of Chumbalaya, in how I feel. I like it. :)

I came in to 40k at the beginning of 4e (2004), and have continually played through now.

I think 5e may have been been the argumentatively best edition. It eliminated many of 4e's glaringly broken items (Consolidate into a *new* h2h combat? :eek: ) and was a good fast paced game.

6e was a distinctly different direction, with lotsa issues.

7e is still *really* good. It's like 5e's improvement on 4e, only for 6e. A lot of wonky 6e mechanics are gone, while keeping many of the cool, new items from 6e. It's not the stream-lined game 5e was, but still a fun, but complex exercise in killing Plastic Space Men. And no real killer stupid mechanics (not a cue to bring the ones that *do* exist up. Let's stay on Topic :) ).

Yes. Jumping back in is a good idea. A whole buncha new codexes in rapid succession means it's going to continually shift the meta and be new and challenging and dynamic for a long time.


I like how positive you are ha convincing me a little, i usee to be a Grey Knights player and well the recent reveal on a new Codex is certainly very appealing (even if the price tag is not) but if you were say in my posistion now having played 40k in the played 40k in the past do you think it might be worth trying a new system first? I know i like 40k see and i'm afraid of gettimg to heavily invested in a system only to be burned when i don't enjoy. Does 40k feel fresh?

Man its a tough decision btaking up a hobby like this!

[John Bower]

Speaking for myself I joined in 5th ed; I had dabbled long ago but only really got into 40k in 2009 and 5th. I must confess to having lost my mojo toward the end of that edition; then 6th dropped and I was one of the people that saw it's potential and loved it. Needless to say I played it a lot.

Now we have 7th and tbh yeah, it's not as streamlined as 5th was; but if you like narrative games it has real opportunity for that; sure Tourney crowd aren't over impressed but I don't think they will be until a wych has the same stats as a Terminator. :)

Unbound armies are what you make of them; they can be stupid but then so can any army if TFG builds them. The best part of 7th is really down to 'find somebody or a group that play your way; your style and you will enjoy it'.

Most of my buddies play it the same way I do. We love it.

[Voltigeur]

I like how positive you are ha convincing me a little, i usee to be a Grey Knights player and well the recent reveal on a new Codex is certainly very appealing (even if the price tag is not) but if you were say in my posistion now having played 40k in the played 40k in the past do you think it might be worth trying a new system first? I know i like 40k see and i'm afraid of gettimg to heavily invested in a system only to be burned when i don't enjoy. Does 40k feel fresh?

Man its a tough decision btaking up a hobby like this!

I would say try everything you can! There are so many good games on the market right now, see if you can get some folks at your LGS to run a demo game or two for you. Most people I know love introducing new players to the games they enjoy. There's really no reason (other than financial) to stick to one system in this day and age. I started getting into Warmahordes and Historicals at the recommendation of others and now I have more variety and fun in my hobby while still enjoying 40k.

You'll no doubt meet the fan boys online who are purists of one game system or another. They'll try to convince you that their system is the best wargame and everything else is the worst. These people are liars. Every system is different and has it's own strengths and weaknesses and most of them are at very least worth a try. There has never been a better time to be in the miniatures/wargaming hobby, the quality of games and minis are better than ever and the pure choice available to hobbyists is staggering! Don't limit yourself to one game unless you absolutely have to!

In reply to your second question, I believe that 7th is the freshest edition of 40k in years! The Malestrom missions do wonders to keep the game exciting!

[xbenblasterx]

I would say try everything you can! There are so many good games on the market right now, see if you can get some folks at your LGS to run a demo game or two for you. Most people I know love introducing new players to the games they enjoy. There's really no reason (other than financial) to stick to one system in this day and age. I started getting into Warmahordes and Historicals at the recommendation of others and now I have more variety and fun in my hobby while still enjoying 40k.

You'll no doubt meet the fan boys online who are purists of one game system or another. They'll try to convince you that their system is the best wargame and everything else is the worst. These people are liars. Every system is different and has it's own strengths and weaknesses and most of them are at very least worth a try. There has never been a better time to be in the miniatures/wargaming hobby, the quality of games and minis are better than ever and the pure choice available to hobbyists is staggering! Don't limit yourself to one game unless you absolutely have to!

In reply to your second question, I believe that 7th is the freshest edition of 40k in years! The Malestrom missions do wonders to keep the game exciting!

I certainly would like to try every game I can get my hands on it's just as you say price and also time! Are quite big constraints, I do love this hobby no matter what format I play, but no doubt like many folk here I haven't got heaps of time like i used to during my youth hah to spend dipping my brush in everything.

I suppose I'm looking at 40K as the safety net, I did give WM a good go and arguably that's GW's main competitor, didn't really get on with it. I've always liked the idea of Historical particularly WW II but the rule sets seem whay to deep!

Either way since starting this discussion It's bringing back a lot of good memories about the hobbyist community, I actually freelance in tech and video game journalism as day (and night job) so I'm often reading a lot of community feedback often at times its always a massive pissing contest which gets old quick!

Here however it seems that all the bad taste is aimed directly back at the companies and even though I'm being a whiny little ***** about playing a game I'm getting some awesome feedback so cheers guy's

[HsojVvad]

Just remember, we are already what, close to 25% of the 7th edition cycle. So if you are going to buy 7th edition and want to get as much value you can. 8th edition should released in about 14 months from now. No I am not joking, I am actually being serious.

6th edition only lasted 20 or 22 months. It didn't even survive 2 years let alone the 4 year cycle we are use to.

[BrotherErekose]

6th edition only lasted 20 or 22 months. It didn't even survive 2 years let alone the 4 year cycle we are use to.
Yes, this was a fast turn around between editions. Before you knew it, before the ink was dry, this was all the 6e RB was good for:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i142/erekose42/Bob%20and%20Fred%20Eldar%20jetbike%20cheese/IMG_2998_zps4590fb0e.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/erekose42/media/Bob%20and%20Fred%20Eldar%20jetbike%20cheese/IMG_2998_zps4590fb0e.jpg.html)

But tis not likely to happen a second time. From various sources (store owners complaining about drops in sales) GW saw sales drop throughout 6e, woke up, sat up and listened to feedback; thus 7e got hastened along and fixed major issues. Good-bye broken Ally pairs!

This time round, we're likely to go the few years like 4e to 5e to 6e.

Then again, I could be completely talkin' outta muh butt.

[xbenblasterx]

Well after much deliberation and decision making I've decided to take the plunge on 7th Ed see how much I like it, along with the new GK codex I thought it was worth another try. It seems that no matter where you turn GW always has it's neigh-sayers, so maybe 40K is the in the worst position it's ever been in and maybe not.

Either way GW now have the wolves at their door in terms of competition so maybe we'll start to see some real balls from the company that started it all, that;s my hope at least and if by the time 8th Ed comes around and I'm not really enjoying it, then maybe it's time to roll my die in a different universe.

But for now In the far future of the 41st Millenium, there is only war!

Cheers for the help guys!

[Caitsidhe]

Yes, this was a fast turn around between editions. Before you knew it, before the ink was dry, this was all the 6e RB was good for:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i142/erekose42/Bob%20and%20Fred%20Eldar%20jetbike%20cheese/IMG_2998_zps4590fb0e.jpg (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/erekose42/media/Bob%20and%20Fred%20Eldar%20jetbike%20cheese/IMG_2998_zps4590fb0e.jpg.html)

But tis not likely to happen a second time. From various sources (store owners complaining about drops in sales) GW saw sales drop throughout 6e, woke up, sat up and listened to feedback; thus 7e got hastened along and fixed major issues. Good-bye broken Ally pairs!

This time round, we're likely to go the few years like 4e to 5e to 6e.

Then again, I could be completely talkin' outta muh butt.

I laughed so hard. I think a picture of it being used to prop up a couch leg which is broken would have been even better. :D

[HsojVvad]

It seems that no matter where you turn GW always has it's neigh-sayers, so maybe 40K is the in the worst position it's ever been in and maybe not.


Well put it this way. I think now I am what 10 years or so reading about GW on the net, GW was going to go out of business because of price increases, they didn't listen to their player bases, they make crapy rules and codices, they can't spell but make really really good minis. After 10 years later it's still the same thing. GW is still here. GW doesn't listen to us, can't spell etc etc. Only difference is they release stuff a lot faster now than they did 10 years ago. Maybe they listen after all. :P Other than that, I think it's in our blood to complain about GW. When one person stops complaining, someone takes their place. :P

[GrauGeist]

As someone who's played 40k since 3rd, 7th has basically killed my interest in the game. The mechanics are clunky and archaic, game balance is a complete crapshoot, any concept of individual army identity is all but gone and GW appears to only care about turning a quick buck instead of growing the game and hobby.

I started back in 2nd, and 7th seems to accelerate the push in 6E toward the "bad old days" of rules bloat. Games are slower and less fun, with a lot more un-cool micro-management that I really hate. I don't need a zillion different flavors of different for the sake of being different, which is precisely what GM has been pushing as of late. Maybe I'll just go back to 4th with the 3E rulebook lists.

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It's a much better version of 6th, at least, as long as you avoid delving too deep into the detachment shenanigans.

True, but that's not really a compliment. It's still too bloated for the non-regular player, and too unbalanced for a competitive player.

[Dave Mcturk]

simple house rules fix most of 40k 'issues'. we're sticking to 6th and pulling in things from 7th we like. and modifying our own codexes.
no reason to pay gw for something you dont like.

think dropzone is looking interesting - but their rules are going to be modular - so each 'new' book gives a whole move forward - shame gw cant do it that way! - but a complete and thorough re-write is obviously beyond them. but if you like modelling gw are still streets ahead - only so much you can do with 15mm or fixed metal poses!

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i cut out all the 'required' pages and gave the pretty pictures to the kidz. blow me in 7th theyve finally caught on!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Tbh we've been having a lot of success with new players starting the game, I don't see where this "bloat" is less than GW's habit of scattering the rules around makes it annoying as hell to find them.