What is the best codex currently?

[Denzark]

Having got into a good rhythm and played at least once a week for around 12 months, with eldar, SM, CSM, and Guard, I have suffered some crushing defeats and inflicted some routs. But the one codex (army) that never fails to let me down is my Guard. I have played IG 5 times using the new codex, and have won comprehensively every time.

5 times is nothing for statistical analysis, but my norm is CSM - got into the once a week to warm up for a tourny and the Guard were a dip in, dip out just for a change.

It got me thniking, what is the best overall, all-round codex? Well I think with mech-meta, it has to be the Guard. The opponents MEQ swapped for melta to take your panzers down? Drown them in infantry - or even better, mechanised infantry. Hordes? Tanks, Tanks, and as the colonials so quaintly put it, pie-plates.

I think, point for point, the Guard codex is the most effective all round. Sure a vet can come up with a cheese list to destroyalise them but normal, pick up, regular guys and girls, they rock.

What does everyone else think (bearing in mind not played versus new nids yet but don't think my tactics will change much - HEAT, Carnifex, On. Lasing, Firing now! Target stopped.

[BuFFo]

If you are allowed to make a list to counter an opposing army, then yes, the IG codex is the best.

If not, then the IG codex can face armies that can flatten it if not careful.

In my opinion, Orks are the overall best codex. Not the most powerful, but the best.

[Ordo]

orks have a very solid dex. in my opinion space wolve have the best dex. currently to my knowledge

[DarkLink]

I'm gonna have to go with guard. They can counter anything, and each individual unit is cheap enough that you can get a little of everything you need into a take all comers list. When your opponent has to face a dozen chimeras full of melta and flamers, backed up by plenty of ordinance, they just can't blow up vehicles and kill units fast enough.


I would say Grey Knights, but since it will be at least a year 'till a new codex comes out, I can't really say anything about them.

[Sangre]

Pictured: Sangre voting Eldar, for a giggle.

[Denzark]

Pictured: Sangre voting DARK Eldar, for a giggle.

Here, let me fix that for you...

[Another Random Geek]

I voted for teh sphess mehreens. Combat Tactics is the best special rule in the game, IMHO.

[BuFFo]

I'll change my opinion.

IG have the best dex. If it weren't for the Ogryns and Penal Legion Unit, the IG book would probably be the one codex no dud units!

[therealjohnny5]

wait, what? so squats? i was totally going squats...guess i'll pick my second which would be Guard. They really shine in so many situations, solid options for various play styles, flexible modeling options and conversions, great for GW's business in model sales, competitive and fun, plus Melissa likes them so you can't go wrong being on the side of the girl with all the flamers...:D

[Duke]

Just wait till bloo angels come out... But in all seriousness, IG is tops.

Duke

[Akimbo Lizard]

Let me lay it down:

Ork pros: Infantry horde
Ork cons: losses before combat

There simple to play (Leeeeeeeeeeroy) and they have a unit for everything, them and CSM are the best

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[Cryl]

I'll vote wolves, the sheer versatility of the book does it for me

[rbryce]

depends on the criteria:
1. fluff-i prefer the older dexs for this, WH, DH, Black templars. my top for fluff would be black templars
2. power- i mean the ability to lay waste here, in a pre-planned gaming setting, you know, the "my xxxx will slap your yyyyy to the ground" games with mates. for this one, probably orks, there is so many of them at reasonable strength.
3. versatility- being able to tailor lists. guard. nuff said
4. pleasure to play- sisters here for me, theres nothing like being the only player in your area, especially as there appears to be quite a few psyker heavy builds nearby. also as they can surprise players with their effectiveness.
5. painting- again, sisters for me, they are a joy to paint, and i love the imagary they invoke.
6. conversion- ooooohh, toughy. orks, marines or guard? hmmm, ill have to go with orks, as most converting i do involves orks(currently turning AoBR orks to bloodbowl players), though the immolator kit for sisters can do loads for the money.

overall, id love to say my sisters, or WH as its known, but ill have to say guard, as its does a lot overall.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Enslavers. Your army is now MY army :p

but in seriousness, id go for Guard. They seem to be the best all-rounders iv encountered.

[Alvena]

Blood angels are going to be just so tough with there new dex. a lot's of people will scream to death to the codex creep... believe me

[Subject Keyword]

wait, what? so squats? i was totally going squats...

*Sigh*

I'll go reset the clock...

Oh, by the way, thanks for excluding Necrons.
Seriously. It's better this way.
The more you underestimate us the more you will hurt when Mephet'ran lets you feel the knife he's already got embedded in the heart of your precious Imperium.
When the Star Gods feast on your fear and superstition, and I get a new codex, we shall purge the hated living from every corner of the galaxy!!!
You are naught but food for the gods!!!!!
I really need plastic Immortals!!!!!!
GWAAAHHH!!!!

Eldar gets my vote.
Competitive without wallowing in TOO much cheese.

[MarshalAdamar]

I would love to say Black Templars but alas... no

I would say space wolves have the best codex out right now. I went back and forth between them and guard. And admittedly I don't play guard so I might be mistaken, but I'm going to stick with the sons of Russ.

[rle68]

Wolves hands down...finished 3rd in a local tourny this weekend.. victims: orks crushed ..another wolf army poorly built crushed.. deamons .. draw (terrible dice rolls)

the close combat abilities of the wolves coupled with Njal and ragnar .. close to unbeatable

[MVBrandt]

Quite assuredly Guard. No army has quite the depth of variety in terms of competitive builds, and so no army is quite as difficult to game plan against w/ an all comers', tourney-ready list.

[fuzzbuket]

Hmm.. depends on your skil and main opponent e.g.

wraithguard vs marines = win
GK with skill vs tau/IG = win
wh vs mech = win
radicialDH with luck for hosts vs anything = win
crons with ctan and destroyers and monoliths vs marines = win


It depends on your skill:D

[MVBrandt]

wraithguard vs marines = win
GK with skill vs tau/IG = win

lol

[rle68]

Someone above me ^ is smoking some wacky weed

[Irdion]

I have to vote Guard for one key reason:

Guard have a counter to EVERYTHING. Either ignoring armor, cover, or invulnerable saves with GK allies, the IG have something for any and all opponents. Helping this is the ridiculously cheap point costs for some of the best mech in the game. 55 point Chimeras are simply too good to pass up.

[Force21]

I think overall balance... Guard.


I like the codex it is all around very fun & balanced...

overall best.

But....


I love the Demon Hunters... everything about them. :D

Grey Knight I love...

Fluff about the DH...fun to paint & cool minis.

My favorite.

[DarkLink]

I love the Demon Hunters... everything about them. :D

Grey Knight I love...

Fluff about the DH...fun to paint & cool minis.

My favorite.

If only our rules were as cool as we are:(

[RocketRollRebel]

All of the late 4th Ed (Orks and Daemons) and current 5th ed codex's have been awesome but I'm going to go with IG if I have to pick. Its a strong and balanced book with multiple competitive builds and lots of unit variety and flavor. God, I remember when people were crying at the loss of wargear and doctrines!:rolleyes:

[Denzark]

I am gob-smackedly surprised that to date no one has voted for CSM - even tau before Chaos marines for pete's sake!

This must be why Gav Thorpe took so much flak...

[Melissia]

Well, they are just Marines with an "I'm mad at my dad!" syndrome after all. Very hard for them to get respect.

[Denzark]

Yeah ok, they have a few issues, maybe a bit of teen angst - violent hormones (khorne), orgiastic hyper sex drives (slaanesh) mammoth pustules (nurgle) and dabbling in sh*t they really shouldn't because they want to see trippy colours (tzeentch) so yes very teen.

But surely - not the worst codex - back to my op - talking about the best all rounder - I thought prior to Grey Hunters they had 2 of the best troops choices - 15 points, 3 on the charge vanilla marines and the mighty Death Guard.

Not even sure their tourney placings match this?

[Cryl]

Yeah ok, they have a few issues, maybe a bit of teen angst - violent hormones (khorne), orgiastic hyper sex drives (slaanesh) mammoth pustules (nurgle) and dabbling in sh*t they really shouldn't because they want to see trippy colours (tzeentch) so yes very teen.

But surely - not the worst codex - back to my op - talking about the best all rounder - I thought prior to Grey Hunters they had 2 of the best troops choices - 15 points, 3 on the charge vanilla marines and the mighty Death Guard.

Not even sure their tourney placings match this?

Their troops are amazing, my problem with them is that the number of effective tournament style builds is pretty low whereas the newer books IG and Wolves (and 'nids although I don't have a nid army) have lots of different viable competitive and fun to play builds. So they're good just not the best

[Subject Keyword]

Yeah ok, they have a few issues, maybe a bit of teen angst - violent hormones (khorne), orgiastic hyper sex drives (slaanesh) mammoth pustules (nurgle) and dabbling in sh*t they really shouldn't because they want to see trippy colours (tzeentch) so yes very teen.

This is the funniest thing I've read in Three weeks.:D

[Jardin]

Having played them a few times, if by best you mean, most easily able to subvert anything slightly resembling fair play and winning, I would go with Chaos.

I had to fight against a list with 1 lash, 1 vinidcator and 1 unit of 3 obliterators and it was just brutal, by far in my oppinion a Tzeneetch list with the abuse of lash could just make life friggin misery. (although I have read that grey knights are big fans of those lists as they negate half of it).

Although I have not played the 5th ed. IG, the 4th ed. were sickeningly OP when someone dropped a gangsta wad of $20s on vehicles. Not to mention the ridiculousness of vox casters giving the whole army high LD and facing boat loads of poor BS Krak missles.

However, I voted for the new 'Nid dex. I figure codex creep alone automatically makes the newest one the most powerful, and as Synapse has been gutted of any real threat which was originally their main disadvantage, I'd say with enough cash one could build a very uber list.

[BuFFo]

I figure codex creep alone

No such thing in 5th edition 40k. You must be a Fantasy player! :D

You need to actually play the army a few times before jumping to conclusions kind sir! :cool:

[Melissia]

No such thing in 5th edition 40k.
CodeX: Imperial Guard.

Oh wait, did I just destroy your argument in less than one sentence? Oh, my bad, I think I did!

Codex creep exists whether you want to admit it or not. It's certainly not as bad as in WFB and for that we can be thankful, but it DOES exist.

[Legoklods]

Have any of you ever faced a faith point spaming WH army.
Your plasma cannons and demolishers are worthless when the entire enermy army has got 3+ invl save ALL THE TIME!
Now you might be able to do something if you just have enough dice, say a lot of boyz or guardsmen, but no. They will be flabée by jumptroopers in no time.
The codex might not be powerfull, it's just broken.

[david5th]

No votes for Chaos Space marines them.:(

[Melissia]

Have any of you ever faced a faith point spaming WH army.
Your plasma cannons and demolishers are worthless when the entire enermy army has got 3+ invl save ALL THE TIME!
Now you might be able to do something if you just have enough dice, say a lot of boyz or guardsmen, but no. They will be flabée by jumptroopers in no time.
The codex might not be powerfull, it's just broken.

C:WH is not broken, and "faith point spamming" makes me think you don't actually know how the codex works... you don't "spam" Faith Points, you can "spam" Acts of Faith but Faith Points are limited-- you really don't get much more than one per squad (the Canoness gives you two and the Living Saint gives you three, but the latter also causes you to lose Faith Points the first time she dies), and a faith point is used up for an entire game whenever you call for an Act of Faith regardless of whether or not the Test of Faith is passed. While you CAN get more, it's only through your squads or squad leaders dying. And if a squad's leader dies? That squad can't use Acts of Faith anymore. And passing the Test of Faith for Spirit of the Martyr (armor save becomes an invulnerable save) is not a surefire thing regardless of what the squad size is-- and it's actually impossible once you get past 11 squad members. And furthermore, with only a single exception (Light of the Emperor), the Acts of Faith only last for a SINGLE phase. Not a turn, a phase, and they must be declared in a specific order that allows the opponent to know what they're dealing with-- such as Spirit of the Martyr having to be declared at the beginning of the enemy's shooting or assault phase, so the opponent KNOWS they have 3+ invulnerable saves before they target that specific unit.

It sounds to me like you have faced off against an opponent who is abusing your lack of knowledge about the codex. Or that you ARE one of those opponents and your opinion is worthless. So which one would that be?

[Subject Keyword]

CodeX: Imperial Guard.

Oh wait, did I just destroy your argument in less than one sentence? Oh, my bad, I think I did!

Codex creep exists whether you want to admit it or not. It's certainly not as bad as in WFB and for that we can be thankful, but it DOES exist.

IG? What about wolves? sure, they'll blow in 3 years, but they're crazy now!

Codex creep not existing. Ppppbbth...

[DarkLink]

C:WH is not broken, and "faith point spamming" makes me think you don't actually know how the codex works... you don't "spam" Faith Points, you can "spam" Acts of Faith but Faith Points are limited-- you really don't get much more than one per squad (the Canoness gives you two and the Living Saint gives you three, but the latter also causes you to lose Faith Points the first time she dies), and a faith point is used up for an entire game whenever you call for an Act of Faith regardless of whether or not the Test of Faith is passed. While you CAN get more, it's only through your squads or squad leaders dying. And if a squad's leader dies? That squad can't use Acts of Faith anymore. And passing the Test of Faith for Spirit of the Martyr (armor save becomes an invulnerable save) is not a surefire thing regardless of what the squad size is-- and it's actually impossible once you get past 11 squad members. And furthermore, with only a single exception (Light of the Emperor), the Acts of Faith only last for a SINGLE phase. Not a turn, a phase, and they must be declared in a specific order that allows the opponent to know what they're dealing with-- such as Spirit of the Martyr having to be declared at the beginning of the enemy's shooting or assault phase, so the opponent KNOWS they have 3+ invulnerable saves before they target that specific unit.

It sounds to me like you have faced off against an opponent who is abusing your lack of knowledge about the codex. Or that you ARE one of those opponents and your opinion is worthless. So which one would that be?

Right, CWH is just a solid codex. I've been playing a fair bit of pure Sisters lately, and I've won each game. Most of them due to either tabling or phasing my opponent out.

After playing Grey Knights for so long, playing with a competitive army like Sisters is like taking the gloves off:rolleyes:. Now instead of winning half of my games, I win all of them:D.

[Melissia]

lol... well, to be fair you're fighitng against Crons a lot it seems...

[DarkLink]

In the "wait until my codex gets updated" column, with the current trend of psychic powers, just wait until an actual psychic army gets updated. Grey Knights and Eldar will be brutal:D.



lol... well, to be fair you're fighitng against Crons a lot it seems...

I started tryinig out pure Sisters at my hometown gaming group, which is pretty small and has a Necron player (so I played him a few time). Now I'm in my college gaming group, and we don't have any Necron players here. We'll see how it goes as our escalation league gets up to larger point values.

[sicarius2424]

yeah i'm gunna have to say guard too i play then and they are a lot better i think but my runner up would be the rgular marines

[Melissia]

DarkLink: What would be even more hilarious is if the Sisters' psychic resistance is increased to accomodate the increase in psychic power :D

[Akkon Sek]

Probably have all manner of interwebz nastiness tossed my way for saying this as it tends to bring the hate, but I am extremely fond of the current iteration of Chaos Space Marines. If taken at face value (or my opinion of 'face value') as a renegade template... it's top notch.

Orks would have topped my list, but the codex runs dangerously close to 'too much' and it can be somewhat of a nightmare to track. The sheer number of options is mind boggling. I love that variety, and use it more than any other, but it certainly can't be called straightforward.

As I age (not-so-gracefully) I find I prefer less complexity in 40K games as I have enough to try to remember on a daily basis. Memorizing for the ridiculous CISSP exam at the moment, and the reads-like stereo-instructions is making my brain melt. Don't want to have to dump a chunk of long term memory to recall my army stats accurately.

Way too much info. Time for my pill I reckon. Whippersnappers.

-A

[Akkon Sek]

In the name of bloviation, I claim full kill rights on this once interesting thread!

Fear me!





(hate it when I kill a thread that’s decent)

[david5th]

IG.

[Akkon Sek]

IG.

*shakes fist*

Damn you... usurper!

[Melissia]

Stop spamming. The thread's not "dead" any more than any other poll thread that doesn't end in a huge debate.

[Akkon Sek]

Stop spamming.

Thanks for your input. It will be taken under consideration.