Grey Knights Rumour Roundup

[Tomgar]

Initial Rumor 8-8-2014

So Faeit has the Grey Knights Codex up as next weeks release, rumours seem to be pointing to a model-light release for them.

Here's the link: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/breaking-new-next-week-is-grey-knights.html

8-9-2014

Grey Knight Force Org list accidentally inserted into Space Wolves Digital codex.
Informations is said to outdated and incorrect. An error on GW's part.
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One of Gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/k2bCPIsJkNE/grey-knights-new-info-emerges-along.html) said: 8-10-2014

So... They're out there now, people know they're coming so I can talk about them.

It's true that the Inquisition and assassins were cut. Assassins are getting their own update (similar to 4E) which will let them end up in any Imperial Army without necessarily taking an Inquisitor and have some cool narrative missions/kill team missions.

But we're not here to talk about Assassins.

Grey Knights are definitely getting "stripped" of a lot of the bloat they had before, not necessarily the stuff they had.

What I mean by that is this codex is C:Grey Knights, and NOT Ordo Malleus.

The focus is on the marines and only the marines. If you want to recreate existing armies, its not difficult you just use the inquisitor codex alongside it.

The special characters as rumored at gone, BUT the relics section lets you effectively portray them (functionally) on the table. This lets people convert to their heart's content without conflict as to what is/is not the right way to represent one character or another.

Unlike space wolves and Orks there is no follow up supplement for Grey Knights. It's all in the book already.

Draigo makes paladins troops, but they have to be 4 or more models or else remain elites.

Things got a little bit cheaper to bring them in line with the new base marine costs.

Librarians still require terminator armor.

Land raiders are dedicated transports for strike squads as well.

Deep striking via teleport got more precise.

Grand strategies are warlord traits.

There are 2 new kits only one of which is a vehicle

Have some very unique rules for when playing against daemons primary. /Both/ armies get buffs (fluff wise because GKs only show up when the situation is super dire)

So to reiterate: book is about the grey knights and nothing else cluttering it.

If you want the old book, just grab codex: inquisition to go with it.

It's not GWs fault that TOs are limiting people to two sources. The design process was that the book was too bloated with choices that had nothing to do with grey knights, thus didn't need to be there.

Does it mean less options? Sort of, if you only have one book, but in return you get a more balanced army that isn't being weighed against the strength of inquisitorial henchmen when considering the potency of "GK troops," allowing for a much stronger book if you wanted to play just knights.

Crowe doesn't make purifiers troops in the traditional way, but he has a formation that's him with 2-6 units of purifiers in transports.

In this formation he gets a bodyguard of the new unit that are based roughly on his "story" per se and is the only way to give him a retinue as he is not normally an independent character.

More will hit the internet soon I'm sure but that's all I can say for now

White Dwarf #29 cover - Grey Knights Confirmed 8-11-2014


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One of Gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/k2bCPIsJkNE/grey-knights-new-info-emerges-along.html) said: 8-11-2014


All Pre-Orders August 16th
Release Date August 23rd

Sanctus Reach
Sanctus Reach: Hour of the Wolf $49.50 Hardback

Space Wolves
Warriors of the Fang $170 Plastic box
Space Wolves Skyclaws $37 Plastic box
Space Wolves Long Fangs $37 Plastic box

Grey Knights
Codex: Grey Knights $49.50 Hardback
Codex: Grey Knights (limited edition) $110 Hardback Book (web only)
Datacards: Grey Knights $8 Cards
Grey Knights Purifier Squad $33 Plastic box
Grey Knights Strike Squad $60 Plastic box
Grey Knights Paladin Squad $50 Plastic box
Grey Knights Nemesis Dreadknight $53.75 Plastic box
Grey Knights Land Raider $74.25 Plastic box
Grey Knights Venerable Dreadnought $46.30 Plastic box
Grey Knights Stormraven Gunship $82.50 Plastic box

Black Library
Horus Heresy: Horus Rising $9.99 Novel
Grey Knights Omnibus $17.50 Novel
Sanctus Reach: Blood on the Mountain $24 Novel
Sanctus Reach: Volume 2 $90 other book (web only)


via La Taberna De Laurana (http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com/2014/08/noticias-portada-y-confirmaciones-de.html) 8-12-2014


10519105201052110522

Via Mexican Ork (https://www.facebook.com/mexork) 8-13-2014


GK-Rules / FOC
"warlord may re-roll his warlord trait. Furthermore you can make reserve rolls for the shock troops in the first round. Troops appear at 3+ and are able to run and shoot (or shoot and run). All units must be Grey Knights faction."
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Pics via Grot Orderly (http://grotorderly.blogspot.com/2014/08/grey-knights-plotki-2-rumours-2.html): 8-14-2014


10599106001060110602

Voice of the Chaos Gods says:

Codex Inquisition have a paper edition. The work is almost finished.

The order of the next releases is:
Grey Knights
Dark Eldar
Blood Angels
Inquisition
Necrons

Warhammer Visions magazine will end publication at year end.

via Brovius (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/page-8#entry3782428) on B&C: 8-19-2014


Wargear
~Psycannons became Salvo 2/4 as expected. Heavy Psycannon has a dual profile, area saturation is the same (Heavy 1, large blast) but has a Salvo 3/6 option too.
~Purifiers inflict Soulblaze on all melee attacks, Incinerators have Soulblaze as well.
~Librarians are cheeeeeeeeeaaaap. We're talking ML3 (still in TDA) for the price of a current Psyriflemen dread (unfortunately Psybolts really are gone now)
~Brother-Captains are ML1, can be upgraded to a GM (+1A and ML2) for the same price as the GM's current ML-upgrade. Still under the 200pt mark.
~Nemesis Force Weapons have a few reworks. No more +1 invuln in melee for swords, halberds are +1S instead of +2I and the warding stave is +2S, AP4 and grants Adamantium Will.
~Paladin Apothecary is the same price as the current Apothecary upgrade (a solid 55pts less) and becomes a character. As reported, NFWs now cost points to upgrade, the previously spoiled figures are correct.
~The Titansword is +3S and AP2, all NFW have Daemonbane (successful Force activation grants rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons.
~NDK is a Monstrous Creature (character), same base cost, and all it's options got cheaper. PT is 45 points less than before, and the melee upgrades are dirt-cheap. With how awesome Psylencers are now, you'll be glad to know the Gatling Psylencer dropped 5pts.

RELICS!!
~The Soul Glaive is a halberd that lets you reroll failed Force tests, and while Force is in effect, the weilder rerolls to hit, wound and armour pen rolls. Costs as much as a GK Strike.
~The Bone Shard of Solor gives the weilder a 3++ while within 12" of a Daemon, increasing to a 2++ for Daemons of Khorne within the same distance. Half a GK Strike in points
~Domina Liber Daemonica grants 1 extra psychic power but has to be rolled on the Sanctic chart. The bearer and all friendly GK units within 6" reroll 1s on psychic tests from Sanctic. Costs as much as a GKT Psycannon
~Cuirass of Sacrifice is TDA with FnP and IWND, costs 5 points less than a GK Strike
~The Nemesis Banner is a 12" Fearless bubble for GKs, GKs in the squad get +1A and Daemons treat the fearless bubble as dangerous terrain, but is pretty pricey and only available for Paladins (as is the Brotherhood banner).
~The Fury of Deimos is an Assault 3, 36" master-crafted Storm Bolter with Precision Shot. Not too bad, same points cost as the Bone Shard.

Sanctic is repeated in the book (so no new powers), squads have the same psychic powers as they do in the FAQ, except that Purifiers have Banishment, Hammerhand AND Cleansign Flame. BCs, GMs and Librarians have the same power access as before. Draigo has Gate of Infinity!
No new characters or units as predicted/previously rumoured.

Still no Psycannon upgrades for vehicles.

Formation
There's a biiiig formation though (fittingly called a GK Brotherhood) with a pretty awesome benefit. If you take...

1 Grand Master
1 Brother Captain
3 Strike squads
3 Terminator squads
2 Interceptor squads
2 Purgation squads
1 Dreadnought
1 NDK

...you get Rites of Teleportation (as per the other formation) and Psychic Brotherhood (While the GM is alive, all models in the formation harness Warp Charges on a 3+).

The Aegis is as per the FAQ, all GKs have Purity of Spirit (Which is just the rule that means GKs only Perils by rolling two or more 6's when using Sanctic powers unless otherwise stated (I think this means they'd still Perils if they failed to cast Vortex of Doom).
TGS is the warlord chart, basically.

Warlord Traits:
1) Daemon-slayer- Warlord gains Hatred: Daemons and when casting Banishment, harnesses Warp Charges on a 2+
2) Hammer of Riteousness- Warlord and unit have Hammer of Wrath
3) Unyielding Anvil- Warlord and GKs within 12" have Stubborn
4) First to the Fray- A nod to poor Mordrak, Warlord and unit automatically arrive first turn when Deep Striking and can reroll the scatter
5) Perfect Timing- Warlord and unit gain Counterattack
6) Lore Master- Warlord knows one more psychic power than normal, must be generated from Sanctic

Tac Objectives
...are pretty cool and mostly fluffy, as follows: (they replace results 11-16 on the chart)

11) Destroy the Daemon- 1 VP for killing at least one unit of Daemons. d3 VPs for killing at least 3, and d3+3 if you somehow manage to kill 6 or more! Not limited by turn, going by the wording.
12) Psychic Communion- 1 VP if you've successfully manifested 3 powers this turn. d3 if you manage to rattle off 6 powers.
13) No Witnesses!- 1 VP at the end of your turn if every enemy IC has been removed as a casualty.
14) Deeds of Legend- 1 VP if a GK killed an opponent in a challenge this turn. d4 if it was an IC or MC.
15) Teleport Attack - 1 VP if you killed a unit with a GK unit that deepstriked, shunted or was teleported by Gate of Infinity this turn
16) Rites of Exorcism- When generated, opponent chooses one objective marker. 1 VP if you control the named marker at the end of your turn, or d3 VPs if you control it at the end of the turn this card was generated.

[BrianDavion]

hopefully if it's model light GKs at least are gonna get some spiffy new toys from codex: space marines.

heck I could see, if they keep Inq in their pages giving the inqusition an Inqusitional Taurox.

[Blood Shadow]

Isn't this most likely to be a formation or detachment rather than a full codex, it'll be a few weeks yet before there's a full new dex of any description as GW need to depreciate SW for a bit first....

[Tomgar]

Definitely seems weird to me that they're rushing out a Grey Knights dex so quickly after Space wolves (I was really expecting a Fantasy release) but AFAIK there has been a big increase in talk of Grey Knights recently. And they are in the Sanctus Reach part 3 book so maybe that's a hint?

[eldargal]

Makes sense, most of their range is complete so they can put out a new book, hopefully see a boost in sales without having to invest much into kits.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I can totally see a splash release as part of the ongoing Sanctus Reach carnival, for sure.

[Wildcard]

I hope we get the Prognosticar Hyperion this time.. And GK to feel as elite in skills as they are described..

And more things in general than just point adjustments :P

[StarWarsDoug]

http://waaaghgaming.de/informationen-zu-den-grey-knights/

"For our english friends, I try to translate these information:

It is very likely that we will see the Codex some time soon.
The Interactive Edition of the Space Wolves Codex contains the Army Builder for the Grey Knights including points cost.

- Libby (Librarian?) much cheaper
- Terminators cheaper (2 points more than a Chaos Terminator, still Troops Choice)
- no new Units
- Inquisition no longer in the Codex
- Draigo Lord of War

There is more to read:
Techmarine is still in the Codex
Mordrak and Thawn are out, same for every entry without a modell

- Points cost of the Strike Squad is unchanged
- The number of heavy Weapons in a squad has not changed
- halberd costs 2 pts for all units, falchions 4, warding staff 5 and hammer 10
- The ranged weapons have been changed, flamer 5, psilencer 10, psycannon 15
- The close combat weapons for the terminators cost the same as for the non terminators but ranged weapons are 5 points more

I hope you can understand what I wrote hear. "

[bfmusashi]

boo, boo I say. I'd have thrown down for Grand Master Mordrak and His Amazing Ghost Knights as a big box and I'll be super sad if the GK don't get a new silly kit.

[Agramar]

I have some pics form a french forum.They can confirm that mistake form GW:
http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com/2014/08/confusion-en-el-requisition.html
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10453
10454
But I'm not sure.I put in my blog my own ideas but I need more opinions and ideas...

[Learn2Eel]

Very interesting, I was thinking of starting up a small Grey Knight force to ally with my Astra Militarum and this couldn't come at a better time honestly. This is what I can glean from the pictures/leaks elsewhere;

1) There are at least 5 Relics. The "Bone Shard of Solor", the "Fury of Deimos", the "Cuirass of Sacrifice", the "Soul Glaive" and the "Domina Liber Daemonica".
2) Dreadnoughts have been brought in line with the 6th/7th Edition Space Marine books where the Venerable Dreadnought is an upgrade in the regular Dreadnought entry. This makes the "leak" seem legitimate.
3) You can barely glimpse that the Nemesis Dreadknight is still 130 points by looking at the bottom right of the third picture - assuming no other units were taken - but it is safe to presume that the upgrade costs have been changed. Personal Teleporters, for example, should realistically cost 20-30 points if that given that upgrading a monstrous creature to a flying monstrous creature usually costs 40 points.

It is apparent the Inquisitorial options, i.e. Assassins and the usual stuff have been removed, sadly. No new units is a bummer but given the entire army can be made from three dedicated kits and supporting kits from other armies that probably isn't a surprise. If there is a Digital Edition then that rules out the codex being a White Dwarf exclusive, though whether it is a Digital Exclusive like the Adepta Sororitas remains to be seen - hopefully not as I don't carry my iPad with me to a hobby store!

[Wildcard]

Interesting to notice that the Nemesis Dreadknight didnt have any close combat upgrades.

Also, nemesis Dreadknight "may take up to two shooting weapons".. it shows no restrictions of not being able to take dublicates.

[fedratsailor]

I understand about taking Mordrak out, sucks because you can build him and his ghost knights out of the terminator box. oh well GW does what it does.

[Tomgar]

Seeing as they're cutting out Inquisition units, it'd be nice to have a physical release of the Inquisition mini dex. Not all of us want to buy tablets or cart them around town. Also, it'd give me the perfect excuse to run a fluffy Dark Angels list with attached Inquisitor and retinue, investigating the actions and doctrines of the Unforgiven.

[This Dave]

Seeing as they're cutting out Inquisition units, it'd be nice to have a physical release of the Inquisition mini dex. Not all of us want to buy tablets or cart them around town. Also, it'd give me the perfect excuse to run a fluffy Dark Angels list with attached Inquisitor and retinue, investigating the actions and doctrines of the Unforgiven.

This will also annoy anyone that built their Crusader models with Power Axes, since Power Swords are the only option for them in the Inquisition codex.

[Tomgar]

That would certainly suck. The Inquisition dex was so low-key I still sometimes play against people who don't know it exists (mostly because they don't really use digital releases) so a physical release would be cool and they cold put the power axe option in!

Also, Faeit has some fairly juicy rumours about GKs up. Apparently they're getting 2 new kits (I assume after the dex) and Assassins seem to be getting the dataslate/minidex treatment so all Imperial armies can take one (Vindicare for me!). Also, it seems a lot of HQs are being cut but can be recreated with relics. Here's the link: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/grey-knights-new-info-emerges-along.html

[HsojVvad]

I just thought it was a Grey Knight novel being released on Black Library only was being released next week. I guess the GK codex may come out in 2 or 3 weeks then?

Then again, GW is notorious for very bad copy/paste. Hell look at their FAQ's. Didn't the DA FAQ at one time had it listed as Daemons at one time?

[Bigred]

One of Gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/k2bCPIsJkNE/grey-knights-new-info-emerges-along.html) said: 8-10-2014


So... They're out there now, people know they're coming so I can talk about them.

It's true that the Inquisition and assassins were cut. Assassins are getting their own update (similar to 4E) which will let them end up in any Imperial Army without necessarily taking an Inquisitor and have some cool narrative missions/kill team missions.

But we're not here to talk about Assassins.

Grey Knights are definitely getting "stripped" of a lot of the bloat they had before, not necessarily the stuff they had.

What I mean by that is this codex is C:Grey Knights, and NOT Ordo Malleus.

The focus is on the marines and only the marines. If you want to recreate existing armies, its not difficult you just use the inquisitor codex alongside it.

The special characters as rumored at gone, BUT the relics section lets you effectively portray them (functionally) on the table. This lets people convert to their heart's content without conflict as to what is/is not the right way to represent one character or another.

Unlike space wolves and Orks there is no follow up supplement for Grey Knights. It's all in the book already.

Draigo makes paladins troops, but they have to be 4 or more models or else remain elites.

Things got a little bit cheaper to bring them in line with the new base marine costs.

Librarians still require terminator armor.

Land raiders are dedicated transports for strike squads as well.

Deep striking via teleport got more precise.

Grand strategies are warlord traits.

There are 2 new kits only one of which is a vehicle

Have some very unique rules for when playing against daemons primary. /Both/ armies get buffs (fluff wise because GKs only show up when the situation is super dire)

So to reiterate: book is about the grey knights and nothing else cluttering it.

If you want the old book, just grab codex: inquisition to go with it.

It's not GWs fault that TOs are limiting people to two sources. The design process was that the book was too bloated with choices that had nothing to do with grey knights, thus didn't need to be there.

Does it mean less options? Sort of, if you only have one book, but in return you get a more balanced army that isn't being weighed against the strength of inquisitorial henchmen when considering the potency of "GK troops," allowing for a much stronger book if you wanted to play just knights.

Crowe doesn't make purifiers troops in the traditional way, but he has a formation that's him with 2-6 units of purifiers in transports.

In this formation he gets a bodyguard of the new unit that are based roughly on his "story" per se and is the only way to give him a retinue as he is not normally an independent character.

More will hit the internet soon I'm sure but that's all I can say for now

[theresponsibleone]

This will also annoy anyone that built their Crusader models with Power Axes, since Power Swords are the only option for them in the Inquisition codex.

Honestly, I think the availability of Power Axes at all was likely an oversight. If you look back again to the "what they have models for", there's only power swords.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Would be pretty weird for a codex to not get any new kits whatsoever, so I think I'll believe the "two new kits" rumour.

[Wildcard]

- Land Raiders as dedicated = <3 finally slots for landraiders AND nemesis dreadknights :)
- Relics finally for the marines in silver <3
- Balanced WITHOUT the inquisitorial part (aka hencemen)
- Crowe & stuff
- New units (vehicle) = oh the excitement! <3

[William Lang]

Honestly, I think the availability of Power Axes at all was likely an oversight. If you look back again to the "what they have models for", there's only power swords.Because giving it an ax or a maul is so hard for their consumer base to accomplish?

[bfmusashi]

nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks
nemesis force chucks

[Andrew Thomas]

So long as Inquisition gets a bigger, better 'dex than what they have, then I'll be happy. Until then, I'm going to be more than a little put off about this.

[Galushi]

Any word on whether Psybolts are staying or going?

[Blood Shadow]

So long as Inquisition gets a bigger, better 'dex than what they have, then I'll be happy. Until then, I'm going to be more than a little put off about this.

As long as they don't leave it years before updating the Inquisition book...

I used to complain about how long in the tooth the daemon hunters codex was....yet I find myself trying to build lists based on the combination of GK, Inq, Assassins and stormtroopers.... That'll mean four different books soon...not to mention getting people to agree to play double CAD without spamming ridiculous lists :(

Urgh.....

[Agramar]

Some fresh news from Italy:
http://astropate.blogspot.com/2014/08/nuovi-cavalieri-grigi-lista.html
http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com/2014/08/ultima-hora-se-desvela-la-lista-de-los.html

[Defenestratus]

Some fresh news from Italy:
http://astropate.blogspot.com/2014/08/nuovi-cavalieri-grigi-lista.html
http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com/2014/08/ultima-hora-se-desvela-la-lista-de-los.html

Interesting.

No note of Psybolt ammo anywhere on those. Perhaps it will just be a psychic power like hammerhand.

[Agramar]

Interesting.

No note of Psybolt ammo anywhere on those. Perhaps it will just be a psychic power like hammerhand.

And no new units or characters.But I don't think those are fakes...

[fedratsailor]

if true Dreadknights become 180 for a heavy incinerator and teleporter. YES please.

[DarkLink]

They're not fakes, they're directly from GW., accidentally bundled with the SW digital stuff. They are supposedly out of date, though.

[Galushi]

Seems weird they would remove Psybolts but still have incinerators, which are basically flamers with psyflame.

I'm still holding out some hope, since without psybolts the GK weaponry is very lacking high strength guns aside from Lascannons/Melta on Land Raiders and Stormravens.

[Learn2Eel]

Seems weird they would remove Psybolts but still have incinerators, which are basically flamers with psyflame.

I'm still holding out some hope, since without psybolts the GK weaponry is very lacking high strength guns aside from Lascannons/Melta on Land Raiders and Stormravens.

Well to be fair Psyflame and Psybolt were to allow units that lacked Incinerators and Psycannons (i.e. Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Stormravens) to still fit in with other Grey Knights. Psyflame + Heavy Flamer = Incinerator/ Psybolt + Assault Cannon = Psycannon. The only real abuse was on Heavy Bolter turrets but otherwise it all made sense. As to the new codex, one possibility that has been thrown around is that all Grey Knights come standard with Psybolt - it would certainly explain why the power-armoured models didn't get any cheaper. Also of note is that Draigo has dropped 30 points....I never had a problem with his rules so I hope they haven't been toned down, though I pray they've tweaked his background. Oh, and Nemesis Dreadknights with 30 point Personal Teleporters? Count me in! I am also of the opinion the leaked copy isn't finished as there doesn't seem to be any unit entries for Rhinos/Razorbacks/Land Raiders, that or no-one bothered to look at them.

[Galushi]

Well to be fair Psyflame and Psybolt were to allow units that lacked Incinerators and Psycannons (i.e. Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Stormravens) to still fit in with other Grey Knights. Psyflame + Heavy Flamer = Incinerator/ Psybolt + Assault Cannon = Psycannon. The only real abuse was on Heavy Bolter turrets but otherwise it all made sense. As to the new codex, one possibility that has been thrown around is that all Grey Knights come standard with Psybolt - it would certainly explain why the power-armoured models didn't get any cheaper. Also of note is that Draigo has dropped 30 points....I never had a problem with his rules so I hope they haven't been toned down, though I pray they've tweaked his background. Oh, and Nemesis Dreadknights with 30 point Personal Teleporters? Count me in! I am also of the opinion the leaked copy isn't finished as there doesn't seem to be any unit entries for Rhinos/Razorbacks/Land Raiders, that or no-one bothered to look at them.

I was thinking that as well. Though I have a hard time believing termies got that much cheaper with baked in Psybolts. I'm more inclined to think the entries weren't complete. For Psybolts to stay in I would have expected that we'd be paying per model rather then the flat fee per unit. Something like 3 pts/model. Slightly cheaper on 5man units, slightly more on full 10. That's probably what I'll houserule them if they remove them completely.

[daboarder]

Seems weird they would remove Psybolts but still have incinerators, which are basically flamers with psyflame.

I'm still holding out some hope, since without psybolts the GK weaponry is very lacking high strength guns aside from Lascannons/Melta on Land Raiders and Stormravens.
Its possible Psycannons, Incinerators have had another profile change, taking them back to the unique weapons they used to be and away form the +1 assault cannon/ flamer

[Agramar]

Confirmed,Grey Knigths are next:
http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com/2014/08/se-confiraadios-lobos-espaciales-hola.html
10495

[Wildcard]

Its possible Psycannons, Incinerators have had another profile change, taking them back to the unique weapons they used to be and away form the +1 assault cannon/ flamer

What could those special properties be? (I mean i am not familiar with the previous incarnations)
- Ignore invulnerable save
- ignore cover save
- rending
- something else?

Anyway, so far all i am hearing is what i've always hoped GK to be.. Happy times, now there's only hoping that gw hasn't f*cked this up :)

[daboarder]

The old Incinerator was a heavy flamer that also ignored all invul saves and the Psycannon was like a heavy bolter, but had 2 profiles, one for moving and firing, and it also ignored invuls. was very cool, personally I also thought it should have been taken to the next logical step and applied the AP/Sv rules to invuls, ie, AP4 beats 4+ invuls

personally I dont care, but grey knights need a ballancing, even if its just removing ObjSec from palladins

[Wildcard]

Not sure about the state of your local meta, but where i play the life expectancy is the lowest for any terminator armor with the nemesis dreadknight close in the second. Only time when PAGs will be the number 1 cannon fodder is when there are helldrakes around..

Anyway, anything that makes me able to take more terminators makes me a happy grandmaster :D

DAboarder: You mean GK are somewhat OP now? (or do i just misunderstand your post)

[Chris*ta]

Also, it'd give me the perfect excuse to run a fluffy Dark Angels list with attached Inquisitor and retinue, investigating the actions and doctrines of the Unforgiven.

Umm, wouldn't this be unfluffy? I'd think the Dark Angels would do everything they can to keep Inquisitors away from the Unforgiven, and potentially finding out their dark secret ...

[daboarder]

DAboarder: You mean GK are somewhat OP now? (or do i just misunderstand your post)

Kinda yeah, ObjeSec Palladins are disgusting. they are one of the to beat lists in Australian tournaments at the moment. I haven't been in the scene myself since 7th dropped, but I am friends with most of the top players in NSW.

essentially it boils down to the fact that most deathstars require multiple powers to be cast, the palladins only need 1

[Katharon]

Just so I know what's what...they're going to be removing all Inquisition forces, such as Assassins and henchmen warbands?

[eldargal]

Wonder if this will lead to a Codex: Inquisition, seems like it would fit well into GWs new way of operating. Book, a few models (like Inquisitor Valeria god damnit) then GK and SoB get their own books without being padded with Inquisitorial elements but you can take them using unbound/allies if you want.

[Wildcard]

Kinda yeah, ObjeSec Palladins are disgusting. they are one of the to beat lists in Australian tournaments at the moment. I haven't been in the scene myself since 7th dropped, but I am friends with most of the top players in NSW.

essentially it boils down to the fact that most deathstars require multiple powers to be cast, the palladins only need 1

Oh. Just oh.. Couple of times i've run paladins its ended in complete disaster :D ...Need to try to fit em in next time we play..

Haven't been this excited in ages, not even when Imperial Guard got new Dex as Astra Militarum..

[daboarder]

Oh. Just oh.. Couple of times i've run paladins its ended in complete disaster :D ...Need to try to fit em in next time we play..

Haven't been this excited in ages, not even when Imperial Guard got new Dex as Astra Militarum..

were talking deathstar here, so its basically the army built around them as opposed to them being used as support

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Wonder if this will lead to a Codex: Inquisition, seems like it would fit well into GWs new way of operating. Book, a few models (like Inquisitor Valeria god damnit) then GK and SoB get their own books without being padded with Inquisitorial elements but you can take them using unbound/allies if you want.

Yog, I hope they don't cut Valeria...I'm sort of expecting them too though. Inquisitorial miniature line really needs plastics though, so if they get a hardback codex i'd hope for some decent plastic characters at least.

[Bigred]

White Dwarf #29 cover - Grey Knights Confirmed


10506

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The lack of new models on the cover makes it look like the no new units thing is true. Sucks for GK players. Hopefully that means they'll get something new the week after the codex.

EDIT : How long has the Armies section on the Games-workshop.com website had the "Inquisition" Tab? Is that new or it has been there for a while? I can't remember... If it's new that might lead credence to there being hardback book for them..

[spaceman91]

The lack of new models on the cover makes it look like the no new units thing is true. Sucks for GK players. Hopefully that means they'll get something new the week after the codex.
They have most of what everyone else has. Big mech/suit check, flying gunship check, models for most thing ( characters missing )

Not sure what else you can give them. Want a chariot?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

They have most of what everyone else has. Big mech/suit check, flying gunship check, models for most thing ( characters missing )

Not sure what else you can give them. Want a chariot?

Specialised Knightly orders? Some kind of unique tank ? Plastic characters? Mordrak and his Ghost knights could of made an interesting kit. Seems odd having a hardback codex release with nothing to support it. I dont think they've done that since 3rd ed IIRC. Stuff like that messes with my OCD. My army already has a chariot if you count the Command Barge, I quite like it.

[bfmusashi]

Want a chariot?

Yes, and failing that I want my dreadknights to ride giant robot horses like they're friggin Master Gundam 10507

[Tomgar]

Well a rumour bit did say there'd be two new kits so I think we can assume there'll be models released in the week after the dex. And yeah, I'm pretty sure the Inquisition tab is new! Please, PLEASE let them do a hardback...

[silashand]

They have most of what everyone else has. Big mech/suit check, flying gunship check, models for most thing ( characters missing )

Not sure what else you can give them. Want a chariot?

They need a decent fast attack choice. Interceptor squads are pretty lame as-is. Personally I'd like to see them get Jetbikes. Maybe not ala old Imperial ones, but newer ones either bought/purchased from some xenos source. It's not like they haven't done that already so it wouldn't invalidate the fluff that the Imperium no longer can make them. Plus it would be a unique unit type within the army/Imperium and not just another land raider variant. JMO...

[Kirsten]

I find interceptors awesome personally, but I would certainly agree about more fast attack choices anyway.

[Gwhizz84]

They need a decent fast attack choice. Interceptor squads are pretty lame as-is. Personally I'd like to see them get Jetbikes. Maybe not ala old Imperial ones, but newer ones either bought/purchased from some xenos source. It's not like they haven't done that already so it wouldn't invalidate the fluff that the Imperium no longer can make them. Plus it would be a unique unit type within the army/Imperium and not just another land raider variant. JMO...
I can just imagine that, Sammael riding along on Corvex boasting to everyone about how he has the last imperial jetbike, and then 30 Grey Knights turboboost past him just waving..

[Jgolden]

I donno. I love my Grey Knights but they have more of the "Slo-mo walk against the wind" vibe. So having jet bikes or the like would be kinda odd to me.

- - - Updated - - -


I can just imagine that, Sammael riding along on Corvex boasting to everyone about how he has the last imperial jetbike, and then 30 Grey Knights turboboost past him just waving..
But THIS would be funny!!!!

[silashand]

I donno. I love my Grey Knights but they have more of the "Slo-mo walk against the wind" vibe. So having jet bikes or the like would be kinda odd to me.

- - - Updated - - -

But THIS would be funny!!!!

Given that the fact that you can get personal teleporters I am not sure I agree with that imagery. The idea is that the GK are a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) that needs to respond immediately to daemonic incursions. I would think the imagery should emphasize that speed. I think it is there now, just not highlighted as much as I think it should be.

[bfmusashi]

I can just imagine that, Sammael riding along on Corvex boasting to everyone about how he has the last imperial jetbike, and then 30 Grey Knights turboboost past him just waving..

Well, they do kill or erase the memory of everyone that sees them, so this could have happened like eight times already.

[Jgolden]

Just got a confirmation that there will be a hardback codex and a web only limited edition.

Also:
Grey Knights Datacards
Grey Knights will be reboxed as Purifiers
GK terminators reboxed as Palidins
Specific GREY KNIGHTS LAND RAIDER
Specific GREY KNIGHTS VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT
Specific GREY KNIGHTS STORMRAVEN GUNSHIP

This is all right from the order form. Everything will be out at the same time AUG 23 (Pre-order AUG 16)

[Tomgar]

Didn't Azrael refuse to have his mind wiped, though? I always imagine the Dark Angels would feel a weird kinship with the Grey Knights, they're all paranoid, over-zealous crazies after all :p

[Jgolden]

Didn't Azrael refuse to have his mind wiped, though? I always imagine the Dark Angels would feel a weird kinship with the Grey Knights, they're all paranoid, over-zealous crazies after all :p

It times like this that make me wish I could "like" a post. :D

[DarkLink]

Didn't Azrael refuse to have his mind wiped, though? I always imagine the Dark Angels would feel a weird kinship with the Grey Knights, they're all paranoid, over-zealous crazies after all :p

Draigo punched Azrael in the face (he deserved it). They don't like each other.

[spaceman91]

Draigo punched Azrael in the face (he deserved it). They don't like each other.

Was that while he was on the warp dust? If it was he could of just been having a bad trip.

[Aaron LeClair]

Just got a confirmation that there will be a hardback codex and a web only limited edition.

Also:
Grey Knights Datacards
Grey Knights will be reboxed as Purifiers
GK terminators reboxed as Palidins
Specific GREY KNIGHTS LAND RAIDER
Specific GREY KNIGHTS VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT
Specific GREY KNIGHTS STORMRAVEN GUNSHIP

This is all right from the order form. Everything will be out at the same time AUG 23 (Pre-order AUG 16)

Dreadnought i could believe(due to everyone else now having their own now but DA), but their own land raider and Stromraven? I see both of those as hard to swallow, If true cool, but could just be repacks with Gks paintjobs on the front.

[Deadlift]

Dreadnought i could believe(due to everyone else now having their own now but DA), but their own land raider and Stromraven? I see both of those as hard to swallow, If true cool, but could just be repacks with Gks paintjobs on the front.

Or just a continuation of GWs new website where each unit has it's own listing despite being from one kit. The Gorkanaut and Morkanaut being an example. Separate website listings but same kit.

[silashand]

Or just a continuation of GWs new website where each unit has it's own listing despite being from one kit. The Gorkanaut and Morkanaut being an example. Separate website listings but same kit.

It is likely this. No actually new kits at all probably.

[Bigred]

One of Gary's birds (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/k2bCPIsJkNE/grey-knights-new-info-emerges-along.html) said: 8-11-2014


All Pre-Orders August 16th
Release Date August 23rd

Sanctus Reach
Sanctus Reach: Hour of the Wolf $49.50 Hardback

Space Wolves
Warriors of the Fang $170 Plastic box
Space Wolves Skyclaws $37 Plastic box
Space Wolves Long Fangs $37 Plastic box

Grey Knights
Codex: Grey Knights $49.50 Hardback
Codex: Grey Knights (limited edition) $110 Hardback Book (web only)
Datacards: Grey Knights $8 Cards
Grey Knights Purifier Squad $33 Plastic box
Grey Knights Strike Squad $60 Plastic box
Grey Knights Paladin Squad $50 Plastic box
Grey Knights Nemesis Dreadknight $53.75 Plastic box
Grey Knights Land Raider $74.25 Plastic box
Grey Knights Venerable Dreadnought $46.30 Plastic box
Grey Knights Stormraven Gunship $82.50 Plastic box

Black Library
Horus Heresy: Horus Rising $9.99 Novel
Grey Knights Omnibus $17.50 Novel
Sanctus Reach: Blood on the Mountain $24 Novel
Sanctus Reach: Volume 2 $90 other book (web only)


Not a new Grey Knight model in there... curious...

[Galushi]

Yeah looks like rebranding of existing kits. Purifier squad and Paladin squad just being rename of current boxes. New strike squad being a 10man box of existing PAGK's at a 10% discount.

Most of them probably just accounting for the GW website having entries for everything under each army.

[DarkLink]

Was that while he was on the warp dust? If it was he could of just been having a bad trip.

No, Azrael was being prissy about a Space Marine that may have been a Fallen DA and was one of the original Grey Knights. He goes missing, so naturally Draigo goes straight to Azrael, ***** slaps him, and tells him straight to his face that if he finds out a Grey Knight was captured by the DAs, he'll fly straight to the high lords of terra and reveal every little dirty secret the DA think they've kept hidden, including 'what you've got hidden under the Rock'.

[daboarder]

And here I am laughing my head off as said GK is made abaddons little ****

[MajorWesJanson]

And here I am laughing my head off as said GK is made abaddons little ****

I get the same feeling about Mortarion, one of the Daemon Primarchs, being taken down several notches by Draigo...

I will give Abbadon credit, he ambushed the GK with several blanks to bring him down, a cunning move.
Still the saddest part of the book for me. Draigo punching Azrael only partially makes up for it.

[DarkLink]

Man, that book was terrible... at least it had cool moments, even if half of them were delivered like a wet fish...

[daboarder]

I get the same feeling about Mortarion, one of the Daemon Primarchs, being taken down several notches by Draigo...

I will give Abbadon credit, he ambushed the GK with several blanks to bring him down, a cunning move.
Still the saddest part of the book for me. Draigo punching Azrael only partially makes up for it.

Ok so mortarion got punked.. but hes a daemon prince and can come back therefor it doesnt counp :p

[Tomgar]

No, Azrael was being prissy about a Space Marine that may have been a Fallen DA and was one of the original Grey Knights. He goes missing, so naturally Draigo goes straight to Azrael, ***** slaps him, and tells him straight to his face that if he finds out a Grey Knight was captured by the DAs, he'll fly straight to the high lords of terra and reveal every little dirty secret the DA think they've kept hidden, including 'what you've got hidden under the Rock'.


That annoys the crap out of me, that the core of the DA's identity (their secret) is revealed to be known to the Grand Master of the Grey Knights and in such a casual, offhand fashion too. Silly, stupid book. The can of worms that opens is ludicrous and basically undermines the entire raison d'etre of the Unforgiven but LOLOLOL we have to make the Grey Knights look cool. Blech.

[bfmusashi]

Because it's information that's only useful as a threat? Because it'd be the GK that likely would have to bring the DA to task over something that happened ages ago and they don't want the extra workload? Because the DA are really quite bad at keeping secrets? Seriously, 10 millennia of acting like they have some big secret to keep is only going to make people curious. They don't even have distractions built in like the Blood Angels with their "look at this thing I made" quest for perfection or the Space Wolves "I'm riding a wolf, all questions not about this wolf are cleansed from your mind."

[Tomgar]

No, but they do have the distraction of straight-up murdering any number of people if they're exposed to even a hint of the fallen :p

I actually liked CZ Dunn's "Protector of Secrets" story, even if Pandorax was quite poo. It showed Azrael ordering the murder of his Guard allies because they were exposed to the fallen for all of a second. But it weighs heavily on him and you can see his deep regret. That was cool.

Anyway, I'm way off-topic here :p

[DarkLink]

That annoys the crap out of me, that the core of the DA's identity (their secret) is revealed to be known to the Grand Master of the Grey Knights and in such a casual, offhand fashion too. Silly, stupid book. The can of worms that opens is ludicrous and basically undermines the entire raison d'etre of the Unforgiven but LOLOLOL we have to make the Grey Knights look cool. Blech.

The whole raison d'etre of the dark angels being about how secretive their secret secrets are whole their secret search for secret traitors who secretly might not be secretly traitors because secretyly the secret leaders of the da might have secretly been planning to secretly not be loyal and this is all a great big secret kept secret by the DAs super secret secret squad isn't exactly the deepest backstory I've seen before.

[Tomgar]

The whole raison d'etre of the dark angels being about how secretive their secret secrets are whole their secret search for secret traitors who secretly might not be secretly traitors because secretyly the secret leaders of the da might have secretly been planning to secretly not be loyal and this is all a great big secret kept secret by the DAs super secret secret squad isn't exactly the deepest backstory I've seen before.

It's good enough for me!

Probably about as deep as "we hunt daemons because Emperor" at any rate :p

[MarneusCalgar]

From La Taberna de Laurana, with love xDDDD


10516

http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com.es/

[Xarga]

No, Azrael was being prissy about a Space Marine that may have been a Fallen DA and was one of the original Grey Knights. He goes missing, so naturally Draigo goes straight to Azrael, ***** slaps him, and tells him straight to his face that if he finds out a Grey Knight was captured by the DAs, he'll fly straight to the high lords of terra and reveal every little dirty secret the DA think they've kept hidden, including 'what you've got hidden under the Rock'.

So basically in short "Don't mess with my friend or i'll tell mum on you."

On a more serious note, i'd be super bummed if GK's don't get any new kits at all. I don't collect them and i don't plan to, but i love seeing all the new toys that each army gets with it's new update.

[Wildcard]

From La Taberna de Laurana, with love xDDDD


10516

http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com.es/



Oh my god. Now all there is to confirm is that crowe and champions can actually beat characters in duel :D

[Tomgar]

Oooh, that might be my favourite codex cover so far! Can't wait to see Dark Eldar's! :D

[MarneusCalgar]

I heard you want more xDDD

1051710518

[fedratsailor]

looks like the stormraven, land raider, venerable are just reboxing's. nice to see that assassins have a dataslate. didn't like them myself in the GK codex.

[Patrick Boyle]

looks like the stormraven, land raider, venerable are just reboxing's. nice to see that assassins have a dataslate. didn't like them myself in the GK codex.

Pretty sure the infantry kits are reboxes as well. Maybe the purifiers are a new kit, the picture is pretty tiny so it's hard to tell if there's anything different, but it seems more likely that the 5-man box has been renamed purifiers, a brand new 10 man box(likely just the old 5 man x 2) labelled strike squad, then the terminator box renamed Paladins. The Grey Knight power armor kit already made every type of Grey Knight in power armor anyway.

...Grey Knights venerable dread is interesting though, they don't currently have a unique plastic kit for their dread unless I missed something...

[Defenestratus]

looks like the stormraven, land raider, venerable are just reboxing's. nice to see that assassins have a dataslate. didn't like them myself in the GK codex.

Oh I'm loving the pickle this puts idiot Stores and TO's that ban dataslates into.

Dataslates Banned? Ok there goes assassins.

[DarkLink]

So basically in short "Don't mess with my friend or i'll tell mum on you."

On a more serious note, i'd be super bummed if GK's don't get any new kits at all. I don't collect them and i don't plan to, but i love seeing all the new toys that each army gets with it's new update.

In context, not really. More like, I don't care about your petty bull****, **** with me and your mom finds out what's in your browser history.

[Bigred]

via La Taberna De Laurana (http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com/2014/08/noticias-portada-y-confirmaciones-de.html) 8-12-2014


10519105201052110522

[Tomgar]

"We're sick of you being petty so we're going to be really petty by telling on you" :p

Let's be honest, both chapters came off as morons in that book. It was truly awful. And it's still utterly ridiculous to just casually go "btw guys, the Knights know the deepest, darkest secret of your chapter, kthxbai!" There are infinitely better Dark Angels and Grey Knights books out there that don't poop all over them both.

Anyway, cool reboxing! And my Angels/Templars get assassins! So happy about that, going to get a Vindicare and give my choppy Templars a bit more long range support :D

Wait a minute, is that a new Vindicare assassin? The only one I can see on GW's webstore is the one holding the pistol in one hand and the rifle in the other.

[Gwhizz84]

Nah it's just the other Vindicare model, they released 2 of each in slightly different poses.

[Blood Shadow]

I think I actually prefer Assassins being in data slate, that means I can take Inquisition/ GK as Allies and not have to surrender the Allied detachment Elite slot..... Though this was only an issue when Inq were wrapped into GK.

This could be the final piece in my Ordo Xenos DeathWatch army.....though what to do with all the GK I've been painting....

[Patrick Boyle]

Man, the repacks of the Land Raider, Storm Raven and Ven Dread just seem so odd. The current Stormraven kit already has some plastic Grey Knight iconography bits, but there's nothing GK specific in either of the others. Is there a Grey Knights transfer sheet? Maybe there'll be one in these alternate boxes? There must be something new to them, otherwise why clog your shelves with what's essentially the same Land Raider kit in two different boxes?

[Tomgar]

Nah it's just the other Vindicare model, they released 2 of each in slightly different poses.

Yeah, I've seen it online on second thought but it's not on the GW webstore. That's odd, maybe a re-release or something?

[bfmusashi]

I have always suspected the Emperor's style of rock would sound a bit like Prince, but it's good to see his favored scions have found a planet with purple rain in which to practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vYDEBrwaA
Or is it a November Rain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ4a0vW0Y1o
Perhaps the influence of Chaos has made the rain chocolate in flavor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA

[Bigred]

Via Mexican Ork (https://www.facebook.com/mexork) 8-13-2014


GK-Rules / FOC
"warlord may re-roll his warlord trait. Furthermore you can make reserve rolls for the shock troops in the first round. Troops appear at 3+ and are able to run and shoot (or shoot and run). All units must be Grey Knights faction."
10527

[Defenestratus]

Via Mexican Ork (https://www.facebook.com/mexork) 8-13-2014

Nothing pisses me off more about this game as when armies steal anothers' special rules.

(its why I've hated Tau since they were introduced)

[Jgolden]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10527&d=1407945264

Wait wait, did anyone else catch the different FOC here????

It looks like it says:

2 x HQ
4 x Troops (not 6)
4 x Elites (not 3)
2 x Fast Attack (not 3)
2 x Heavy Support (not 3)
1 x Fortification
1 x Lord of War

I'm wondering if this is because GK can now take Land Raiders as Troop Transports and Kaldor Draigo is supposedly a Lord of War?

[bfmusashi]

Nothing pisses me off more about this game as when armies steal anothers' special rules.

(its why I've hated Tau since they were introduced)

We have altered the deal, pray we do not alter it further.

[silashand]

[Wait wait, did anyone else catch the different FOC here????

It's just yet another detachment type. I expect all armies will get at least one.

[Jgolden]

It's just yet another detachment type. I expect all armies will get at least one.

Oh, okay. I couldn't read anything it was saying so all I had to go off of was the chart...

[fedratsailor]

decided to go looking at the venerable dreadnought kit under the space marine tab on the GW site. The new Grey Knight venerable is the same kit. just a reboxing.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Venerable-Dreadnought

[Dalren]

Not sure what else you can give them. Want a chariot?

Yup. Like Logan Grimnar's, but pulled by Jokaero. I need laser monkeys to clear the way for my Holy Death Sled.

[gory_v]

LAZER MONKEYS ON WARP DUST!

I'd buy that....and make a display board hooked up to dub step on audio. Even my utter dislike of dubstep wouldn't stop me from the hilarity.

[Wildcard]

LAZER MONKEYS ON WARP DUST!

I'd buy that....and make a display board hooked up to dub step on audio. Even my utter dislike of dubstep wouldn't stop me from the hilarity.

If Grimnar gets a sled, Draigo must have a sled that can accommodate an exoskeleton made of Sisters bones, pulled by squats drawn from the Titans mine where they mine precious metals for Grey Knights special toys. And with a beatboxing greater daemon head as the figurehead.

[This Dave]

If Grimnar gets a sled, Draigo must have a sled that can accommodate an exoskeleton made of Sisters bones, pulled by squats drawn from the Titans mine where they mine precious metals for Grey Knights special toys. And with a beatboxing greater daemon head as the figurehead.

I'd buy that for a dollar. :)

[Defenestratus]

Rumor news must be getting slow if we've resorted to wishcasting Draigo to be as dumb as the idiotsled.

[40kGamer]

Rumor news must be getting slow if we've resorted to wishcasting Draigo to be as dumb as the idiotsled.

Just wait until I pimp that bad boy out with extra Wolves and bells... that'll show you! :)

[bfmusashi]

If only he was inside a suit of armor with the spirit of his dead twin. Because the plot of Megaman NT Warrior is what makes a good GW model.

[MarneusCalgar]

Courtesy by Grot Orderly, in La Taberna we have new WD pics!

http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com.es/2014/08/rumores-resumen-de-las-novedades-de-gw.html

[Bigred]

Pics via Grot Orderly (http://grotorderly.blogspot.com/2014/08/grey-knights-plotki-2-rumours-2.html): 8-14-2014


10599106001060110602

Voice of the Chaos Gods says:

Codex Inquisition have a paper edition. The work is almost finished.

The order of the next releases is:
Grey Knights
Dark Eldar
Blood Angels
Inquisition
Necrons

Warhammer Visions magazine will end publication at year end.

[Xaric]

hmmm could they be doing this for psybolts that when your facing daemons they come packed with them? hence the reason to remove them i guess to get rid of the "am i facing daemons today? best take them and waste those points on guess work" that was a problem with some weapons you would need to know the type of enemy you are facing rather then for instance some enemys get Prefered enemy.

[Wildcard]

I've been calling out of a solution for a time now, that would include using warp charges to "power up" Grey Knights weapons.

- We already have melee weapons with force (and hammer hand for strenght - if that remains)
- Why not give psybolts to every bolter-type weapon and since psybolts are somewhat psychic reactive, their prowess would be affected by how many warp charges you spend on them (no need to roll tho)
-- 1 wc: +1 STR (old psybolt)
-- 2wc: -1 AP
-- 3wc: both of the above

Or

Choose would it affect AP or Str of the weapon and alter the value up to three (using up to three warp charges)
- side effect would be gets hot and change of wound based on warp charges used due to the psychic backslash. (with a possibility of Aegis-armor giving 6+ save against the wound(s))


This might not be the most streamlined way, but would effectively give grey knights a clear risk - reward system with all the plasma and melta etc toys being removed from the dex (or so it's rumoured).

[silashand]

with all the plasma and melta etc toys being removed from the dex (or so it's rumoured).

What plasma/melta? Unless you are referring to the =I= element the GK don't get those (except the stormraven options which I don't think are going away because they are part of the kit).

[DarkLink]

Because str5 ap4 storm bolters on a power you'll only be able to cast maybe twice a turn reliably and at the expense of other powers like prescience as a substitute for things like melta and plasma is totally what GKs need to be competitive in 7th.

[silashand]

Because str5 ap4 storm bolters on a power you'll only be able to cast maybe twice a turn reliably and at the expense of other powers like prescience as a substitute for things like melta and plasma is totally what GKs need to be competitive in 7th.

Agreed. I know some folks don't like psybolts, but given the extreme limitation on choices the GK have combined with essentially them now getting half the number of psychic powers off each turn (usually less and force being one of them) it's one of the few benefits of the army. If that goes away they need to do something significant to make them worth playing IMO. Sure they are good at psychic denial, but overall they aren't all that great in the current meta I have found.

Wish they'd make the psilencer actually worth taking while they are at it...

[bfmusashi]

So, I was flipping through the preorder stuff up on the GW site and I'm a little miffed. 1. Assassins dataslate is $17 2. the book is still $50 3. the card deck is just objectives and the daemonology sanctic powers
Just not feeling excited at all for any of this.

P.S. I had hoped the limited edition would combine Codex inquisition, Grey Knights and the assassins, but it doesn't. Just art prints and a fancy binding.

[fedratsailor]

The land raider/ storm raven/ venerable dreadnought are just new boxes. I hope the rules are worth the book, cause this release seems like a real letdown.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Looks like Officio Assassinorum has it's own army tab now to...

[Blood Shadow]

I'm masochistically interested in this release but far from excited...

Separating the Inquisition is fine, but that normally would come in addition to a nerf bat in the balls.

I reckon GK are going to be really heavily nerfed here, they'll still be quite good with points reductions but I anticipate they'll be no better than vanguard vets by the end of this.....

[gaz1858]

Ok so I have read the WD and their list is 1666 points. Using battlescribe i built the same list and came to 1660. Now i did not include the Relic on libby or the teleport homers on the strikes as they arent currently options.

What ive taken from this is that our points are not changing much. From the previous leaked pics we can assume the pt on the NDK is going down but everything else remains the same so i dont see many changes with the new dex.

The WD didnt come up with any other rules info other than the rerolls of 1s for deny the witch. Im fearing its basically the old dex with faq rules included. Couple new traits and relics thats it

[gaz1858]

I added up the army list in WD based on the current dex and it came to 1660 from the 1666 list they had.

My points didnt include the relic (which wasnt mentioned in the report so no idea what it does) or the teleport homers on the strikes as they arent options currently. What it looks like though is that prices are not changing massively.

[Tuatara]

I did notice Razorbacks are a bit more points than the old Razorback with Psybolts. Wonder if that indicates anything.

[Blood Shadow]

Psybolts didn't get mentioned once in the battle report, I'm also curious as to what has happened to psycannons with reference to the Dread Knight's long range fire power...

Could psycannons be returning to 36" range?

As for the new detachment/ formation 3+ arrive from reserve first turn with run & shoot or shoot and run, they even explicitly state that this can be buffed by an AM officer of the fleet to 2+.....

With the addition of an Inquisitor using servo skulls this could be crazy pressure, imagine two Dreadknights dropping in with torrent incinerators and psycannons.....or nova spamming purifiers.....that's better than drop pods as your entire army (bar the allied AM) could arrive precisely and deny your opponent an entire turn effectively if going second....

[Halollet]

Psybolts didn't get mentioned once in the battle report, I'm also curious as to what has happened to psycannons with reference to the Dread Knight's long range fire power...

Could psycannons be returning to 36" range?

As for the new detachment/ formation 3+ arrive from reserve first turn with run & shoot or shoot and run, they even explicitly state that this can be buffed by an AM officer of the fleet to 2+.....

With the addition of an Inquisitor using servo skulls this could be crazy pressure, imagine two Dreadknights dropping in with torrent incinerators and psycannons.....or nova spamming purifiers.....that's better than drop pods as your entire army (bar the allied AM) could arrive precisely and deny your opponent an entire turn effectively if going second....

That's what I thought about that formation. A whole army deep striking in would be amazingly fun! Deploy nothing and let your opponent go first, he wastes a whole turn, and then you deep strike in and control the whole board. So much for GKs stinking at Maelstrom missions! :p


I downloaded the previews for the GK and Assassin codexes from the Black Library. The entry for the Culexus Assassins is interesting. I'm wondering if they're going to be able to do half the things described. I doubt it, but having really good assassins would be a good selling point. Cause if the assassins are as is, it won't sell.

If the fluff is right, Culesus' should be able to nullify any psychic power in range and make opponents run away just by being close. I sure hope so, I always like this assassin, but it has always sucked.

[YorkNecromancer]

Am I right in thinking that what we're seeing with the GK codex is the most flagrant money grab GW has ever done? Taking a codex, gutting out half the rules, gutting out characters who lack a model, and leaving existing GK players with the option to buy the GK codex, the Inquisition codex when it comes out, and the assassin dataslate?

That they're replacing the old £20 codex with a collection of three books totalling £70, only with less options overall, because no miniature = no rules?

And I'm supposed to get excited about this?! The chance to replace my existing codex with one which is basically going to be a cut-paste job with less stuff for over three times the price?!

That's absolutely f***ing despicable behaviour. Absolutely f***ing despicable.

[DarkLink]

But, hey, the new cover art is awesome.

[YorkNecromancer]

Lol. Well, that totally justifies it, then. Including the fact that 90% of the interior art will be EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE PREVIOUS EDITION.

You know what this new codex is?

http://i.imgur.com/BjCkl.jpg

Only it's the same old hat, and the hat and shoes don't even come in the box any more - you have to buy them both separately now - and all for over three times the original price.

Despicable. Abjectly despicable.

[DarkLink]

And the new art is in the White Dwarf.

[YorkNecromancer]

And the new art is in the White Dwarf.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/db4a43a2fddebfca28b09df6b75500b9/tumblr_mh6y730J961ra8x1ao6_500.gif

[DarkLink]

Yeah...

[Blood Shadow]

Am I right in thinking that what we're seeing with the GK codex is the most flagrant money grab GW has ever done? Taking a codex, gutting out half the rules, gutting out characters who lack a model, and leaving existing GK players with the option to buy the GK codex, the Inquisition codex when it comes out, and the assassin dataslate?

That they're replacing the old £20 codex with a collection of three books totalling £70, only with less options overall, because no miniature = no rules?

And I'm supposed to get excited about this?! The chance to replace my existing codex with one which is basically going to be a cut-paste job with less stuff for over three times the price?!

That's absolutely f***ing despicable behaviour. Absolutely f***ing despicable.

I see your frustration but the last codex was a little while ago now, the splitting into three separate products will be better for the game long term and GW I think, so I can see that it's justified.... Even if it's going to cost a bit more.... So long as each codex lasts for a few years then I think £70 isn't that bad in relative terms

[YorkNecromancer]

the splitting into three separate products will be better for the game long term

HOW?

How does making players need two codexes and a ten quid dataslate help anyone?


Even if it's going to cost a bit more

Son, I admire your brass balls in having the barefaced audacity to call what is an over 300% price rise 'a bit more'. Not all of us have our own money printing machine, though, so you'll forgive me if I refer to it as a despicable amount, rather than 'a bit more'.

Bottom line, they're not releasing new models, the rules are largely the same, the whole thing is underwhelming, and they're asking 300% over the previous prices for updated points costs and nothing else.

Despicable. They deserve to lose their customers, just like they have been.

[DarkLink]

I don't feel bad at all about them splitting off Inquisition and Assassins. They were all shoehorned in together in the first place. Each getting a shoddy copy-paste job sucks, but as far as splitting off the different units they way they should be split goes, I find all the complaining amusing. Though Inquisitors and warbands really should be another dataslate HQ available to the forces of the Imperium as opposed to a tiny little codex.

But if the new GK codex really is a copy-paste with half the unique wargear and special rules missing and only a few tweaked points, I'm not getting the codex. It is not worth $50 for that.

[Neelam]

I know it's probably a conversion but part of me is hoping the two rifleman dreads shown in the WD can be made out of the Venerable Dreadnought kit and that they're not just a repackage

[bfmusashi]

I don't feel bad at all about them splitting off Inquisition and Assassins. They were all shoehorned in together in the first place. Each getting a shoddy copy-paste job sucks, but as far as splitting off the different units they way they should be split goes, I find all the complaining amusing. Though Inquisitors and warbands really should be another dataslate HQ available to the forces of the Imperium as opposed to a tiny little codex.

But if the new GK codex really is a copy-paste with half the unique wargear and special rules missing and only a few tweaked points, I'm not getting the codex. It is not worth $50 for that.

How were they shoehorned together? They've been hanging out since Grey Knights started wearing power armor. Shoot, before that they were all hanging out with the Sisters and Arbites because they're all bits and bobs. None of these groups is a real and complete army and the reduction of them further into components is just painful.

[Valerian]

How were they shoehorned together? They've been hanging out since Grey Knights started wearing power armor.

Grey Knights have been in Power Armour since 1988, so that assertion is patently false.

[YorkNecromancer]

the reduction of them further into components is just painful.

This +1.

It's just a shameless way to squeeze money out of people. F***ing disgraceful.

[silashand]

How were they shoehorned together? They've been hanging out since Grey Knights started wearing power armor. Shoot, before that they were all hanging out with the Sisters and Arbites because they're all bits and bobs. None of these groups is a real and complete army and the reduction of them further into components is just painful.

The Sisters were never linked to the Inquisition originally. The reason they added them to the Witchhunters book was because the design team at the time was infatuated with the then new =I= game (this from an interview that I attended at GD back when DH/WH were released). Some time after that I think it was Jervis who said they should probably not have included them because they were Ecclesiarchy forces, not Inquisition ones and the plan was to fix it some time in the future. Unfortunately for the ladies they never got around to doing a proper codex for them, instead just publishing a craptastic PDF and the lame e-codex they have now :(.

[DarkLink]

Assassins aren't actually part of the Inquisition, either. They're commanded directy by the high lords of terra.

They were originally in the same codex because they were an eclectic mix half dozen disparate forces that just didn't fit anywhere else, so they all got put in one place. Which was better than nothong, but meant if you wanted to play an Assassin, you were forced to take Grey Knights or something. The ability to use an Inquisitor was extremely limited.

Now, though, you can stick an assassin in any army you want, just like you should be able to. Grey Knights actually have their own codex, instead of being forced to share with roommates. This is how it should be set up, not that these still don't seem to be lazy copy-pastes.

[silashand]

Now, though, you can stick an assassin in any army you want, just like you should be able to. Grey Knights actually have their own codex, instead of being forced to share with roommates. This is how it should be set up, not that these still don't seem to be lazy copy-pastes.

This. I agree wholeheartedly with the separation, but the implementation they are choosing leaves a lot to be desired :(.

[bfmusashi]

The Sisters were never linked to the Inquisition originally. The reason they added them to the Witchhunters book was because the design team at the time was infatuated with the then new =I= game (this from an interview that I attended at GD back when DH/WH were released). Some time after that I think it was Jervis who said they should probably not have included them because they were Ecclesiarchy forces, not Inquisition ones and the plan was to fix it some time in the future. Unfortunately for the ladies they never got around to doing a proper codex for them, instead just publishing a craptastic PDF and the lame e-codex they have now :(.
This has nothing to do with my post you quoted. You are referring to a later development. Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Assassins, Inquisitors, and Arbites all used to got in the same list of random units you could ally with your forces. That was their job, their purpose. At the tail end of 2nd the Sisters branch off. I think then it's Assassins and then you start seeing Grey Knights with power armor and storm bolters, that's when Sisters get rolled back in with inquisitors for reasons. If anything that wasn't a Grey Knight was added to the Daemon Hunters book it's because it was anemic. Nothing was shoe horned in and the only thing preventing it from being an update of Agents of the Imperium proper was the exclusion of Sisters and the fancy shotgun rules of the Arbites.
That exclusion would have sucked, but they put a TON of new stuff in the book. Death cult assassins, daemonhosts, henchmen of every make and model, power armoured Grey Knights (with a ton of new special rules). We even got options that weren't bolter-on-a-stick.

[DarkLink]

It has everything to do with your post. Sisters, the Inquisition, Assassins, Grey Knights, etc, have no reason to be shoved into the same one or two sources for the sake of tradition when in the fluff the faction often have little or nothing to do with each other, especially when placing them in the same faction forces you to play them together when, again, they are often completely independent entities. They absolutely, unquestionably, 100% deserve to be able to be taken independently of each other. So, sure, go ahead and criticize the prices or the quality of the rules in the books, GW absolutely deserves that, but whining about how everything is getting split up when it should be split up is silly.

BTW, before complaining about how you can't run stuff at tournaments because "two sources" is the standard set by Frontline Gaming with the LVO/BAO and most tournaments are following their lead, this is still early 7th. Things are very much in flux, and I know Reece and Frankie are very open to the idea of tweaking the format to accommodate things like Assassins in, say, an IG army with allied Space Marines, or something similar. That front will sort itself out.

[Halollet]

Assassins aren't actually part of the Inquisition, either. They're commanded directy by the high lords of terra.

They were originally in the same codex because they were an eclectic mix half dozen disparate forces that just didn't fit anywhere else, so they all got put in one place. Which was better than nothong, but meant if you wanted to play an Assassin, you were forced to take Grey Knights or something. The ability to use an Inquisitor was extremely limited.

Now, though, you can stick an assassin in any army you want, just like you should be able to. Grey Knights actually have their own codex, instead of being forced to share with roommates. This is how it should be set up, not that these still don't seem to be lazy copy-pastes.

I second this.

Spending money for a copy paste is annoying, but what really needed to be fixed? Its not like the Tyranid codex with genestealers where they got copy/paste from crap to continue to be crap. A few point tweeks here and there and some new abilities is all the GKs really need. What else would you want? They already have big tanks, a big MC, flyer, solid troops, HQs that can change what counts a troop....

[plawolf]

I'll reserve judgement for now, but unless they give GK some workable anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry options that doesn't involve hitting it with a hammer, to compensate for removing the means most GK lists covered those areas, then I'll be annoyed.

Its all fine an dandy to make high minded claims about how things should have been, but the fact was the GK specific units we have today were costed, balanced and equipped with all the other elements of the old DH codex in mind, that GW has now stripped away.

Unless there is a serious rethink and rebalancing to address the gaping holes doing so has torn in the GK forces FoC, some points tweaks to bring GKs more in line with the general points deflation that's been the norm everywhere else, and some copy and paste rules from other codex will just not cut it.

Now, as a GK player who was only ever interested in playing a pure GK army, I would be ecstatic if there was a proper rebalancing after all the riff-raff have been stripped out to allow me to build pure GK armies without having to suffer the penalties the old codex used to impose on such builds, but I'm not holding my breath.

[bfmusashi]

It has everything to do with your post. Sisters, the Inquisition, Assassins, Grey Knights, etc, have no reason to be shoved into the same one or two sources for the sake of tradition when in the fluff the faction often have little or nothing to do with each other, especially when placing them in the same faction forces you to play them together when, again, they are often completely independent entities. They absolutely, unquestionably, 100% deserve to be able to be taken independently of each other. So, sure, go ahead and criticize the prices or the quality of the rules in the books, GW absolutely deserves that, but whining about how everything is getting split up when it should be split up is silly.

BTW, before complaining about how you can't run stuff at tournaments because "two sources" is the standard set by Frontline Gaming with the LVO/BAO and most tournaments are following their lead, this is still early 7th. Things are very much in flux, and I know Reece and Frankie are very open to the idea of tweaking the format to accommodate things like Assassins in, say, an IG army with allied Space Marines, or something similar. That front will sort itself out.
Since his whole argument was about a book I made no reference to, and added nothing but a tangent under the guise of rebuttal you are incorrect. The complaint isn't that it's being split up from things that have shared design space for over twenty years (although, holy crap that should be commented on), it's that it's being split up and nothing is being put back in.
To Shoehorn- To force into inadequate space. You'd have to try really hard to come up with how there's inadequate space in a Grey Knights book for Inquisitors and Assassins.

[Power Klawz]

uhm... none of this has much to do with the actual rules. I think we get it, you're mad that things cost money, I guess?

New codex release has always been GW's money maker. Its been almost 3 decades now people, can we move on?

[silashand]

Since his whole argument was about a book I made no reference to, and added nothing but a tangent under the guise of rebuttal you are incorrect. The complaint isn't that it's being split up from things that have shared design space for over twenty years (although, holy crap that should be commented on), it's that it's being split up and nothing is being put back in.
To Shoehorn- To force into inadequate space. You'd have to try really hard to come up with how there's inadequate space in a Grey Knights book for Inquisitors and Assassins.

You said, and I quote "How were they shoehorned together? They've been hanging out since Grey Knights started wearing power armor. Shoot, before that they were all hanging out with the Sisters and Arbites because they're all bits and bobs. None of these groups is a real and complete army and the reduction of them further into components is just painful."

Pretty certain I explained EXACTLY how and why the Sisters and Inquisition were "shoehorned together." I pointed out that in the established background they were not part of the same force "hanging out" regardless what you might wish to believe. And while I didn't mention the GK, you are fundamentally incorrect there as well. It has absolutely nothing to do with there being space or not. The simple fact is they were not all the same force period and both the Sisters and the GK have been complete armies in the backstory from their beginnings in Rogue Trader. Sisters didn't even have models before the 2nd edition Codex Imperialis book which could be used as allies and then as an army of their own at the end of 2nd with their own codex. They were never a "miscellaneous" unit. They were part of the Ecclesiarchy forces in CI. Grey Knights didn't get models until 2nd edition as well and you could buy two different Inquisitor models to use with them *if* you wanted, but they were not purchased as a squad upgrade or as part of the GK terminator unit. They didn't start wearing power armour until the Daemonhunters book which by that time both them and Sisters were pretty well fleshed out. The only actual Arbites models were made in 1993 for 2nd edition (again Codex Imperialis), but were then moved to Necromunda. They have not had actual 40K rules since CI, though you could imagine them as part of a PDF by using the rules for IG if you wanted. The Assassins were *never* part of the Inquisition in the beginning and have had at least TWO separate codices of their own since 2nd edition (I still own both of them). Before that you could get Imperial Assassins by themselves as well.

Honestly I have no idea where you are coming up with your information. It is completely incorrect. If you like I can provide page number and WD issue references.

As to the topic, I completely agree with the way they are splitting them back out, especially the assassins. And since there are multiple Inquisitorial Ordos I think moving all of them out as well is perfectly acceptable and appropriate. The only thing I don't happen to agree with is that they aren't releasing anything new for the GKs themselves.

[Cable70]

So earlier in this thread they were talking about Draigo punching the head of the Dark Angles, what book was that in? I want to read in to it to torment a friend of mine.

[Tuatara]

So earlier in this thread they were talking about Draigo punching the head of the Dark Angles, what book was that in? I want to read in to it to torment a friend of mine.

Yeah. I was wondering that as well. Please, someone tell us.

As an aside, despite that fact that the codex is probably going to be pretty basic, I still plumped for the collectors edition. You may call me a mug with more bucks than brains, and I won't argue about it (except the "bucks" bit). I know I am, but Daemonhunters were my first army. I couldn't help it.

[DarkLink]

Pandorax.

[Tuatara]

Pandorax.

Excellent. Thanks old bean.

[Cutter]

Am I right in thinking that what we're seeing with the GK codex is the most flagrant money grab GW has ever done? Taking a codex, gutting out half the rules, gutting out characters who lack a model, and leaving existing GK players with the option to buy the GK codex, the Inquisition codex when it comes out, and the assassin dataslate?

I'm not sure if it's the most flagrant, the Wolf Guard edition of the Spikings Codex hoves into view on a santa sled...


That they're replacing the old £20 codex with a collection of three books totalling £70, only with less options overall, because no miniature = no rules?

Yes.


And I'm supposed to get excited about this?!

Yes.


The chance to replace my existing codex with one which is basically going to be a cut-paste job with less stuff for over three times the price?!

Uh-huh.


That's absolutely f***ing despicable behaviour. Absolutely f***ing despicable.

Have you seen their financials?

[Cutter]

As an aside, despite that fact that the codex is probably going to be pretty basic, I still plumped for the collectors edition. You may call me a mug...

Mug :p


...with more bucks than brains, and I won't argue about it (except the "bucks" bit). I know I am, but Daemonhunters were my first army. I couldn't help it.

It's also a shame they couldn't be arsed producing a custom set of objective markers for the GK, but I guess that would only have pushed the already radio-rental price tag even higher.

It feels a bit like a box ticking exercise, 7th edition is here, lets get the last of the floppy codices updated and out the door quick smart. Given that this is going to be achieved in short order, I can't help but be intrigued to see what they come up with AFTER the last of the 'traditional' codices drops.

Still, regardless of any feelings of muggery, I hope you enjoy your new Codex.

:)

[Adam-Wayland]

It's also a shame they couldn't be arsed producing a custom set of objective markers for the GK, but I guess that would only have pushed the already radio-rental price tag even higher.

If GW sold objective markers for each army, they'd be more popular than the Datacard packs.

[silashand]

I can't help but be intrigued to see what they come up with AFTER the last of the 'traditional' codices drops.

I expect they will start doing what Jervis mentioned a little bit ago which was to begin releasing models/rules as they see fit in dataslate form. Having full codices for all the armies sets the baseline where they want it to be and then they can just do one-offs for whatever unit, character, beastie, etc. they feel like doing. As I recall the goal was to be able to provide things for all armies here and there so people didn't have to wait 4-5 years for their next codex just to get something new for their favorite army.

Anyway, just my hunch...

[HsojVvad]

It feels a bit like a box ticking exercise, 7th edition is here, lets get the last of the floppy codices updated and out the door quick smart. Given that this is going to be achieved in short order, I can't help but be intrigued to see what they come up with AFTER the last of the 'traditional' codices drops.


I am worried how Dark Eldar, Necrons and Blood angles will fair if that is their intent now. Just get rid of all the soft cover codices and have hard cover and digital only codices now. Really worried for Necrons and DE for just being rushed. BA may have fair a bit better if they were worked on sooner.

[DarkLink]

Excellent. Thanks old bean.

It's honestly a terrible book, but in a very Megashark vs Giant Octopus kind of way.

[silashand]

It's honestly a terrible book, but in a very Megashark vs Giant Octopus kind of way.

So you are saying it ranks up there with Sharknado 2? Glad I didn't read it then... :)

[Valerian]

Grey Knights didn't get models until 2nd edition as well and you could buy two different Inquisitor models to use with them *if* you wanted, but they were not purchased as a squad upgrade or as part of the GK terminator unit. They didn't start wearing power armour until the Daemonhunters book which by that time both them and Sisters were pretty well fleshed out.

That's actually not correct, Silas. Grey Knights were in Power Armor from their very first army list, which was released in 1988 (one year after Rogue Trader was published). In fact, back then there was no such thing at Termimator Armour, which wasn't invented until some time later. When it was, there was a White Dwarf article with some background, line-art work, and unit entries for Grey Knights Terminator Squads, and the Grey Knights Terminator Captain. These unit entries were meant for use with that original 1988 army list that was included in the Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness book. Not too much later those Grey Knights Terminators got their own metal models, too (for the Grey Knights in power armour of the Rogue Trader era, you were supposed to use the RTB-01 plastics, and whatever other lead Marine models were available, just like any other Chapter). Several of the various Inquisitor and the Daemonhunter Inquisitor models hailed from the Rogue Trader era, as well.




As to the topic, I completely agree with the way they are splitting them back out, especially the assassins. And since there are multiple Inquisitorial Ordos I think moving all of them out as well is perfectly acceptable and appropriate.

I agree with you here.

[Harley]

Does anyone else find this release hillarious? (like stepping in a pile of poop hilarious, where all you can do is laugh).

GW, it's lackies and their fanboys have gone on and on about being a "model company" first and foremost. They gloat about making models, selling models, with the game only being an add on which isn't prioritized. It's long been the motto - no releases without models, no model no rules.

And then lo and behold, here comes a codex of one of the most popular armies, and instead of building hype it's a complete surprise out of left field. Instead of releasing new models everyone wants to buy they just rebox the old ones. Instead of coming up with new units or rules it's the same deck of cards just reshuffled.

Watching this corporation is like watching a drunk, alcoholic friend wander around trying to get laid at parties. Sure, he gets lucky sometimes, others he is laying in piles of his own puke, but in the end he is just f---- up his own life and killing himself slowly.

I'm not being fooled again. I'm through buying these college text books from a company that can't even be arsed to advertise it's self out of the pompous belief that they don't need it.

[silashand]

That's actually not correct, Silas. Grey Knights were in Power Armor from their very first army list, which was released in 1988 (one year after Rogue Trader was published). In fact, back then there was no such thing at Termimator Armour, which wasn't invented until some time later. When it was, there was a White Dwarf article with some background, line-art work, and unit entries for Grey Knights Terminator Squads, and the Grey Knights Terminator Captain. These unit entries were meant for use with that original 1988 army list that was included in the Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness book. Not too much later those Grey Knights Terminators got their own metal models, too (for the Grey Knights in power armour of the Rogue Trader era, you were supposed to use the RTB-01 plastics, and whatever other lead Marine models were available, just like any other Chapter). Several of the various Inquisitor and the Daemonhunter Inquisitor models hailed from the Rogue Trader era, as well.

I stand (sit actually) corrected. I only saw the terminator entries from WD and like I said the first specific GK models were the metal terminators. However, my point stands. The army was very much fleshed out even back then and it was less than two years after Slaves to Darkness when the Terminators were introduced (1988-1990). They were never the "bits & bobs" that the previous poster claimed. They have always been their own chapter in the same manner as the Sororitas have been part of the Ministorum. And while Inquisitors could be bought with the GK, again very soon after Slaves to Darkness was published they were made available for other armies as well. If anything it was the Inquisition that was the least fleshed out of any of the elements currently occupying space in the GK codex. That's why to me it makes perfect sense to split them off into their own armies.

Completely off-topic: making me go back and read those old books makes me miss a lot of the old flavor the game used to have. Genestealer cults, Exodites, specific Traitor Legion lists, Imperial Robots, etc. Granted, a lot of the old models were hideous compared to the amazing stuff GW puts out nowadays (barring my negative opinion of the new chaos dinobots :) ), but the backstory contained in a lot of ways so much more in the way of ideas and creativity. JMO though.

[Cutter]

I am worried how Dark Eldar, Necrons and Blood angles will fair if that is their intent now. Just get rid of all the soft cover codices and have hard cover and digital only codices now. Really worried for Necrons and DE for just being rushed. BA may have fair a bit better if they were worked on sooner.

Hopefully they'll all get a more sympathetic and comprehensive redo than the Grey Knights. The Black Spelves are the only thing keeping one of my mates in 40K at all these days, if they piss him off, that'll be one less player on hand. I use the Necron Codex as the ruleset of choice for my vast Dalek/Dr Who themed army, so I'm hoping they don't get the shaft, and my Bangles go back as far as RTB01. As long as my Bangle Lord of War gets a santa sled equivalent, I should be at least entertained :)

[Lord-Boofhead]

Completely off-topic: making me go back and read those old books makes me miss a lot of the old flavor the game used to have. Genestealer cults, Exodites, specific Traitor Legion lists, Imperial Robots, etc. Granted, a lot of the old models were hideous compared to the amazing stuff GW puts out nowadays (barring my negative opinion of the new chaos dinobots :) ), but the backstory contained in a lot of ways so much more in the way of ideas and creativity. JMO though.

There was a post a while back where on of the design team dudes said the new release schedule allows them to work on smaller projects, so we may still see stealer cults, Exodites, arbites ect.

Also the HH Ad Mech stuff is full of robots, and if FW doesn't give us 40K era rules for them in a future IA book I'll eat my Scatter Dice.

[Wildcard]

There was a post a while back where on of the design team dudes said the new release schedule allows them to work on smaller projects, so we may still see stealer cults, Exodites, arbites ect.

Also the HH Ad Mech stuff is full of robots, and if FW doesn't give us 40K era rules for them in a future IA book I'll eat my Scatter Dice.

I seriously hope i am not forced to buy rules for units that so clearly could and should have been in the new grey knights codex if it was only released little later... Other than that, getting new releases at the pace gw can produce them sounds lovely...

[Cutter]

I seriously hope i am not forced to buy rules for units that so clearly could and should have been in the new grey knights codex if it was only released little later... Other than that, getting new releases at the pace gw can produce them sounds lovely...

Micro-transactions seems to be one of the models they're experimenting with.

Though the transactions aren't that micro, there's probably a better term for it in the context of what GeeDub are doing.

Any retail savants out there care to put a name to it?

[Valerian]

Big leaks are here; enjoy (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/?p=3782428)!

[Defenestratus]

No more psybolt Ammo!!! Schadenfreude indeed.

Force range weapon though is... NASTY!

[Halollet]

No more psybolt Ammo!!! Schadenfreude indeed.

Force range weapon though is... NASTY!

I think that gun needs to be on a character so you can pick out characters with precision shot. Otherwise I can't think of a lot of targets that would be threaten by both force and str 4 ap -.

[DWest]

I think that gun needs to be on a character so you can pick out characters with precision shot. Otherwise I can't think of a lot of targets that would be threaten by both force and str 4 ap -.
Unfortunately, characters don't automatically come with Precision Shot or Strike anymore.

[Defenestratus]

I think that gun needs to be on a character so you can pick out characters with precision shot. Otherwise I can't think of a lot of targets that would be threaten by both force and str 4 ap -.

Daemon princes?

Obliterators?

Chaos Spawn?

Broadsides?

Riptides?

I could go on...

[40kGamer]

Daemon princes?

Obliterators?

Chaos Spawn?

Broadsides?

Riptides?

I could go on...

I find the idea of a ranged force weapon downright terrifying! :eek:

[Ferrum_Sanguinis]

So uh...entire codex is leaked over at dakka dakka is anyone's interested...

[40kGamer]

So uh...entire codex is leaked over at dakka dakka is anyone's interested...

Thanks mate!

[Dalleron]

Wow, there sure is a lot of butt-hurt people over there at B&C. More than I'd imagine.

[Bigred]

via Brovius (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/page-8#entry3782428) on B&C: 8-19-2014


Wargear
~Psycannons became Salvo 2/4 as expected. Heavy Psycannon has a dual profile, area saturation is the same (Heavy 1, large blast) but has a Salvo 3/6 option too.
~Purifiers inflict Soulblaze on all melee attacks, Incinerators have Soulblaze as well.
~Librarians are cheeeeeeeeeaaaap. We're talking ML3 (still in TDA) for the price of a current Psyriflemen dread (unfortunately Psybolts really are gone now)
~Brother-Captains are ML1, can be upgraded to a GM (+1A and ML2) for the same price as the GM's current ML-upgrade. Still under the 200pt mark.
~Nemesis Force Weapons have a few reworks. No more +1 invuln in melee for swords, halberds are +1S instead of +2I and the warding stave is +2S, AP4 and grants Adamantium Will.
~Paladin Apothecary is the same price as the current Apothecary upgrade (a solid 55pts less) and becomes a character. As reported, NFWs now cost points to upgrade, the previously spoiled figures are correct.
~The Titansword is +3S and AP2, all NFW have Daemonbane (successful Force activation grants rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons.
~NDK is a Monstrous Creature (character), same base cost, and all it's options got cheaper. PT is 45 points less than before, and the melee upgrades are dirt-cheap. With how awesome Psylencers are now, you'll be glad to know the Gatling Psylencer dropped 5pts.

RELICS!!
~The Soul Glaive is a halberd that lets you reroll failed Force tests, and while Force is in effect, the weilder rerolls to hit, wound and armour pen rolls. Costs as much as a GK Strike.
~The Bone Shard of Solor gives the weilder a 3++ while within 12" of a Daemon, increasing to a 2++ for Daemons of Khorne within the same distance. Half a GK Strike in points
~Domina Liber Daemonica grants 1 extra psychic power but has to be rolled on the Sanctic chart. The bearer and all friendly GK units within 6" reroll 1s on psychic tests from Sanctic. Costs as much as a GKT Psycannon
~Cuirass of Sacrifice is TDA with FnP and IWND, costs 5 points less than a GK Strike
~The Nemesis Banner is a 12" Fearless bubble for GKs, GKs in the squad get +1A and Daemons treat the fearless bubble as dangerous terrain, but is pretty pricey and only available for Paladins (as is the Brotherhood banner).
~The Fury of Deimos is an Assault 3, 36" master-crafted Storm Bolter with Precision Shot. Not too bad, same points cost as the Bone Shard.

Sanctic is repeated in the book (so no new powers), squads have the same psychic powers as they do in the FAQ, except that Purifiers have Banishment, Hammerhand AND Cleansign Flame. BCs, GMs and Librarians have the same power access as before. Draigo has Gate of Infinity!
No new characters or units as predicted/previously rumoured.

Still no Psycannon upgrades for vehicles.

Formation
There's a biiiig formation though (fittingly called a GK Brotherhood) with a pretty awesome benefit. If you take...

1 Grand Master
1 Brother Captain
3 Strike squads
3 Terminator squads
2 Interceptor squads
2 Purgation squads
1 Dreadnought
1 NDK

...you get Rites of Teleportation (as per the other formation) and Psychic Brotherhood (While the GM is alive, all models in the formation harness Warp Charges on a 3+).

The Aegis is as per the FAQ, all GKs have Purity of Spirit (Which is just the rule that means GKs only Perils by rolling two or more 6's when using Sanctic powers unless otherwise stated (I think this means they'd still Perils if they failed to cast Vortex of Doom).
TGS is the warlord chart, basically.

Warlord Traits:
1) Daemon-slayer- Warlord gains Hatred: Daemons and when casting Banishment, harnesses Warp Charges on a 2+
2) Hammer of Riteousness- Warlord and unit have Hammer of Wrath
3) Unyielding Anvil- Warlord and GKs within 12" have Stubborn
4) First to the Fray- A nod to poor Mordrak, Warlord and unit automatically arrive first turn when Deep Striking and can reroll the scatter
5) Perfect Timing- Warlord and unit gain Counterattack
6) Lore Master- Warlord knows one more psychic power than normal, must be generated from Sanctic

Tac Objectives
...are pretty cool and mostly fluffy, as follows: (they replace results 11-16 on the chart)

11) Destroy the Daemon- 1 VP for killing at least one unit of Daemons. d3 VPs for killing at least 3, and d3+3 if you somehow manage to kill 6 or more! Not limited by turn, going by the wording.
12) Psychic Communion- 1 VP if you've successfully manifested 3 powers this turn. d3 if you manage to rattle off 6 powers.
13) No Witnesses!- 1 VP at the end of your turn if every enemy IC has been removed as a casualty.
14) Deeds of Legend- 1 VP if a GK killed an opponent in a challenge this turn. d4 if it was an IC or MC.
15) Teleport Attack - 1 VP if you killed a unit with a GK unit that deepstriked, shunted or was teleported by Gate of Infinity this turn
16) Rites of Exorcism- When generated, opponent chooses one objective marker. 1 VP if you control the named marker at the end of your turn, or d3 VPs if you control it at the end of the turn this card was generated.

[silashand]

via Brovius (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/page-8#entry3782428) on B&C: 8-19-2014

Well Warding Staves are pretty pointless now :(. I don't care what anyone says, AP4 power weapons are dumb considering 80% of all the armies you will face will be 3+.

[Wildcard]

Not looking good, not looking good at all..

[silashand]

Yeah, I just finished reading it. Probably the worst codex "update" in a very long time. A couple units got slightly cheaper, but the vast majority got considerably worse overall. Not only did they lose the Inquisition and Assassins (which I agree with):

- no more psychic pilot/driver
- any entry that didn't have a model is now gone
- any entry that didn't have a bit on the sprue is now gone
- no unique psychic powers
- most of the nemesis weapons got nerfed (not counting the Force nerf from 7th edition)
- psycannons now salvo weapons (which is expected, but still a nerf)
- no more psybolt ammo
- twin autocannon dread is now more expensive than it was when it was S8
etc...

Psilencers gained Force, but really who cares? It's still S4 AP- so it's not like it's going to do anything most of the time and you still only have a 50% chance of activating it on one warp charge. So tell me again what exactly is good about this book? Though I like the backstory and the models they make, in this case Games Workshop can go **** themselves with a cactus.

FWIW I didn't expect a psycannon vehicle upgrade option. That's available via Forge World and GW has not been co-opting items from them for a few years now (last one was the Trygon I believe). I guess they figure you can get it via their other books.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Wow, I really think they should of had some new units... seems a very boring release with more taken away and nothing added whatsoever, I can't see how this could possibly attract new players either. I hope none of my armies get this sort of treatment.

[DarkLink]

BTW, a certain forum that may or may not refer to the Ork's general strategy for shooting things has posted pics of the actual codex in their GK rumors thread, around pg 56 or so. They may be already taken down, but I'm definitely going to post my thoughts. Not exactly a happy camper with the new codex.

[daboarder]

As a Nid player, an army whose Psychic defense was Shredded by 7th and not fixed by the bull**** lords, I find Psilencers TERRIFYING!!

That being said, my nurgle army is laughing its head off at the loss of psybolt.....

[DarkLink]

You shouldn't be too afraid. Still only str4, you still get your armor. And GKs are desperately lacking in anti tank, so we're not likely to waste weapon slots on pilencers.

[daboarder]

You shouldn't be too afraid. Still only str4, you still get your armor. And GKs are desperately lacking in anti tank, so we're not likely to waste weapon slots on pilencers.

Yeah but at 12 shots (two psilencers) its a 40% chance to kill outright for a T6 3+ MC (assuming Psychic passed) thats pretty rough from a single squad man

[DarkLink]

A 36% chance, but again, I doubt you'll actually see any GK players taking psylencers because against every single other army in the game, they're just as terrible as they were before. And that's assuming you don't take the Heavy Psycannon/Heavy Incinerator, which is better overall.

[daboarder]

I dunno man, a single squad of the dominion wannabes with psilencers could be a good way of effectively removing a MC a turn from the game, and the salvo change for psycannons makes them way less tasty on that platform

[DWest]

Throwing Misfortune on the MC in question before psilencing it would probably do the trick, or would that fall under "throwing good money after bad"?

Personally, I kinda hope Psilencers remain throw-away, as I was using them to make Autocannons for my Nurgle marines.

[Anggul]

Daemon princes?

Obliterators?

Chaos Spawn?

Broadsides?

Riptides?

I could go on...

Great for Spawn and other daemon gribblies yeah. Also another nail in the coffin of Tyranid Warriors.

Against Obliterators, Broadsides and Riptides not so much though, the 2+ armour is likely to shrug it off. Great if they do roll up a couple of ones though.

[Defenestratus]

Great for Spawn and other daemon gribblies yeah. Also another nail in the coffin of Tyranid Warriors.

Against Obliterators, Broadsides and Riptides not so much though, the 2+ armour is likely to shrug it off. Great if they do roll up a couple of ones though.

right but the heavy psilencer is 12 shots. At BS4 thats 9 hits, 4.5 wounds against T4 opponents.... thats a damn decent chance or rolling a couple 1's.


I took a look at the consolidated rumor roundup on BoK and honestly, it looks fine in so much that everything got cheaper. I've always loved the GK aesthetic and I'm trying very hard to resist the pull of Titan right now.

[DarkLink]

nly a few specific units have gotten cheaper. Terminators, Librarians, Dreaadknights, and Draigo is about it. Most other stuff lost options like psybolt ammo and stayed the same price or got more expensive.

[Demonus]

Daemon princes?

Obliterators?

Chaos Spawn?

Broadsides?

Riptides?

I could go on...

Oblits- 2+ save
Spawn- Wounded on 6s
DP- Legit but wounded on 5s
Riptides- 2+ save PLUS FnP PLUS Wounded on 6s
Broadsides- 2+ save

Coupled with 24" range. Not terribly scared.

[Defenestratus]

Oblits- 2+ save
Spawn- Wounded on 6s
DP- Legit but wounded on 5s
Riptides- 2+ save PLUS FnP PLUS Wounded on 6s
Broadsides- 2+ save

Coupled with 24" range. Not terribly scared.

Its 6 or 12 shots for the heavy. One is going to get through. Ye of little faith.

[40kGamer]

Oblits- 2+ save
Spawn- Wounded on 6s
DP- Legit but wounded on 5s
Riptides- 2+ save PLUS FnP PLUS Wounded on 6s
Broadsides- 2+ save

Coupled with 24" range. Not terribly scared.

If I had a dollar for every 2+ beast I've killed with mass S4 fire I could buy a lot of models! Force makes it easier! :D

[DarkLink]

Just because you can theoretically do something doesn't mean it's the best way. And there's a significant opportunity cost involved. I can see psilencers on the Dreadknight, but otherwise I don't think you'll ever see them in a competitive list. And I prefer the incinerator psycannon DK myself.

[IronZOGZ]

Guys. There is a hypothetical place where all your questions are answers with speculative potential imagery.

http://eltallerdeyila.blogspot.com.es/2014/08/codex-de-los-caballeros-grises.html?m=1

In general, it looks like every single unit in the army is worse, or different in a lateral direction.

Am I the only one that feels that way? It's confusing, because they aren't trying to sell new models...

[Wildcard]

After initial shock has toned down a fraction, there are some positive things to be found in the pages of our new dex:

- Crowe & Brotherhood Champion got unarguably better. Crowe is IC,AP2, potentially up to strenght 10..
- Nemesis dreadknight got significantly better, cheaper, being able itself get 4++ save, heavy psycannon is a lot better now because its cheaper and has a fire mode that can be used to chew multiple hullpoints at a turn as well as shoot flyers.
- draigo is a monster like no other,
- librarians are no-brainer hq option now (as well as the cheapest possible in the codex)
-

What pisses me a lot though, is that the falchions are now just so superbly better and as such i am facing an army wide reconstruction of models with halberds to models with falchions..

[DarkLink]

BCs are still overpriced, Crowe is decent but nothing too crazy. They're either stuck at 1A, or at str 4, neither of which is particularly good and they're fragile for their points. Crowe at least is decent in challenges and has Cleansing flame, but the BC is only a crappy combat character who really only gained a second wound while losing a bunch of little things and getting a huge points hike.

[Wildcard]

BCs are overpriced, agreed. They do however get a hammerhand (that is truly unreliable now with so many psykers around..) thus potentially hitting at strenght 6...

They are and have always been combat characters. I am trying to find those little victories here of the codex. One is that you no longer have attacks solely based on b2b or independent characters on duels..

That said, i think outside of duel crowe is one of the worst combat characters in any of the power armor using 'dexes.. (and what comes to relics - i've yet to see such a stupid relic as blade of antwyr. str user, ap - melee.. wtf?

He does give 2 warp charges to the pool as well as fearless + cleansing flame to the unit.. and if enemy happens to have a character there, then crowe is surely helping (but with a 175 price tag you are right, not that good of an investment)

:(

And only reliable can openers we have now are stormravens.. yay, looking forward of spamming those *not*

[plawolf]

After initial shock has toned down a fraction, there are some positive things to be found in the pages of our new dex:

- Crowe & Brotherhood Champion got unarguably better. Crowe is IC,AP2, potentially up to strenght 10..
- Nemesis dreadknight got significantly better, cheaper, being able itself get 4++ save, heavy psycannon is a lot better now because its cheaper and has a fire mode that can be used to chew multiple hullpoints at a turn as well as shoot flyers.
- draigo is a monster like no other,
- librarians are no-brainer hq option now (as well as the cheapest possible in the codex)
-

What pisses me a lot though, is that the falchions are now just so superbly better and as such i am facing an army wide reconstruction of models with halberds to models with falchions..

Might wanna take a closer look.

NDK are only 5++ unless I'm missing something.

Draigo got hit with the nerf bat hard, loosing a point off every stat before W. Fair enough he gain AP2 and +3S, but as he is now, he is hardly unparalleled in CC.

[40kGamer]

Might wanna take a closer look.

NDK are only 5++ unless I'm missing something.

Draigo got hit with the nerf bat hard, loosing a point off every stat before W. Fair enough he gain AP2 and +3S, but as he is now, he is hardly unparalleled in CC.

I think he was referring to the fact that the NDK has the psychic power to boost invuls by +1... so no 4++ guarantee, just a possibility.

Personally I will really miss Mordrak. I enjoyed the 1st turn DS.

[Halollet]

I don't think anyone has pointed out that we can now take OS land raiders. I always liked land raiders and this just makes them more annoying then ever!

The other thing I was looking at was that nemesis strike force. How do you thing the viability is of an all infantry, all deep striking army? 2x Incinerators on PAGKs could actually do some damage to light tanks that just happen to be hit when firing at the troops near by. Termies are cheap so they'll have the psycannons and looks like the librarian can take a combi melta. Thoughts?

[DarkLink]

Draigo got hit with the nerf bat hard, loosing a point off every stat before W. Fair enough he gain AP2 and +3S, but as he is now, he is hardly unparalleled in CC.

Dude, really? He gained +2 str guarenteed, and he's regularly going to be Str 9. With AP2 at initiative, and still hitting almost everything in the game on 3's save, like, Chapter Masters, he's still easily one of the best combat characters in the game hands down, and he's significantly better in that regard than before. T5 rarely came up, no one cares about bs 6. I guess you don't get fnp against lascannons. Losing The Grand Strategy sucks, and no more precog, but trust me, Draigo is significantly better at what he does.

Being a Lord of War is terrible though. It makes taking him massively prohibitively expensive, that's the real nerf.

[Halollet]

Personally I will really miss Mordrak. I enjoyed the 1st turn DS.

Well, I don't think you need to change your tactics. The strike force is one HQ and one troop. So a GM and some termies can deep strike together on turn one on a 3+. Mordrak seems redundant when you have this option available. The 3+ stinks but at least you can run afterwards so you don't get plasma cannoned to death! Not a bad trade off in my mind.

[daboarder]

Dude, really? He gained +2 str guarenteed, and he's regularly going to be Str 9. With AP2 at initiative, and still hitting almost everything in the game on 3's save, like, Chapter Masters, he's still easily one of the best combat characters in the game hands down, and he's significantly better in that regard than before. T5 rarely came up, no one cares about bs 6. I guess you don't get fnp against lascannons. Losing The Grand Strategy sucks, and no more precog, but trust me, Draigo is significantly better at what he does.

Being a Lord of War is terrible though. It makes taking him massively prohibitively expensive, that's the real nerf.

How does he match up against Abby and Swarmlord these days?

[Valerian]

How does he match up against Abby and Swarmlord these days?

He actually compares quite favorably to Abaddon. Abaddon costs 20 points more, and might have a slight edge, but it's honestly a close call. For every advantage that Abaddon has, Draigo has a counter advantage. It'd all come down to who got the charge, and dice rolls. I'll go take a look at the Swormlord and report back.

Regardless, Draigo is nasty now, and on par with some of the best characters in the entire game.

EDIT: Swarmlord is 40 points more than Draigo, but without Eternal Warrior, Draigo should take him pretty easily. The Titansword with Hammerhand and Force turned on is no joke.

[DarkLink]

Abaddon does about 1.2 wounds per turn to Draigo, Draigo does about 1.1 wounds per turn to Abaddon, assuming neither charged. Abaddon hits first. But if Abaddon, say, rolls a 1 for his Daemon weapon or something, he's probably going to lose the fight.

The Swarmlord no longer forces you to reroll sucessful invulnerable saves, and isn't Eternal Warrior, right? If so, Draigo won't even break stride. Even if the Swarmlord is Eternal Warrior, Draigo still probably wins that fight by a solid margin.

You also never run Draigo alone. He's always got buddies, and those guys tend to be Paladins, and Paladins are hands down the best assault unit in the game. GK Terminators are almost as good, just a lot more fragile. So even if Abaddon was to win the challenge or something, he and his bodyguard will probably still get the crap kicked out of them.

Draigo also beats the Chapter Master, they basically have the same numbers except Draigo strikes at initiative and unlike the Chapter Master he's master crafted, so he hits more and hits first. He'll force weapon Wraithknights and Riptides with ease. Daemon Princes will mostly bounce off of him and get forced weapon'd.

In fact, Abaddon is the only unit I can think of that can go toe to to with Draigo in a challenge and expect to have an advantage. Excluding, I suppose, Mind Shackle Scarabs, but Driago cares not for your puny toys (I always pass the leadership test).

[DarkLink]

Oh, Ghazgul would do pretty well, but only when he's got his 2++ up.

[AmasNagol]

Abaddon does about 1.2 wounds per turn to Draigo, Draigo does about 1.1 wounds per turn to Abaddon, assuming neither charged. Abaddon hits first. But if Abaddon, say, rolls a 1 for his Daemon weapon or something, he's probably going to lose the fight.

The Swarmlord no longer forces you to reroll sucessful invulnerable saves, and isn't Eternal Warrior, right? If so, Draigo won't even break stride. Even if the Swarmlord is Eternal Warrior, Draigo still probably wins that fight by a solid margin.

You also never run Draigo alone. He's always got buddies, and those guys tend to be Paladins, and Paladins are hands down the best assault unit in the game. GK Terminators are almost as good, just a lot more fragile. So even if Abaddon was to win the challenge or something, he and his bodyguard will probably still get the crap kicked out of them.

Draigo also beats the Chapter Master, they basically have the same numbers except Draigo strikes at initiative and unlike the Chapter Master he's master crafted, so he hits more and hits first. He'll force weapon Wraithknights and Riptides with ease. Daemon Princes will mostly bounce off of him and get forced weapon'd.

In fact, Abaddon is the only unit I can think of that can go toe to to with Draigo in a challenge and expect to have an advantage. Excluding, I suppose, Mind Shackle Scarabs, but Driago cares not for your puny toys (I always pass the leadership test).


Chapter Master on Bike is around the same points. Draigo only strikes at initiative for the first turn, on average, due to concussive from the Hammer. And the Bike CM can Hit & Run in and out to get the charge bonus attacks every other turn.

I really like Draigo. He is the perfect character to put in a unit of Grav Centurians, and you will see a lot of that being done, no doubt.

Him plus a unit of 5GKTs with Falchions, a hammer and a Psycannon, a Dreadknight with a Hammer, Teleporter and a pair of ranged weapons plus a Storm Raven is pretty good to sling in to any army in some way or another.

[Halollet]

Despite the blandness and uninteresting codex that this is, I think I'm all raged out. Since I play Tyranids who got shot in the foot, and Guard who got washed out, I seem to sense a pattern of these new codexs.

Before with the Tau and Eldar, I remember the release of the WraithKnight that was pushed as something so much bigger then the riptide! They were going for each new release to be bigger and bolder then the last. I think someone realized that's not a good system to base this game on as the person with the oldest codex would be shat upon.

Balancing all the codexes was something that needed to be done. They got rid of the Taudar battle brothers as a fix for that and all the new releases seem to be stripped down to the basics.

It seems that we're suppose to find the fun and creativity in the different detachments and formations, not a particular unit.

I don't know if this is going to work long term or if 8th will bring back in crazy weirdness, I have no idea. It doesn't look good right now as most people are getting depressed about all their toys being taken away. If GW can survive this time of people loosing interest, then there might be a nice balanced game at the end, but I don't see it yet. At least that's the way I feel about 7th.

Thoughts?

[Erik Setzer]

Being a Lord of War is terrible though. It makes taking him massively prohibitively expensive, that's the real nerf.

Ghazghkull (the Lord of War with no invulnerable save except for one turn out of a game, who costs over 200 points) says "Hi!"

[silashand]

It doesn't look good right now as most people are getting depressed about all their toys being taken away. If GW can survive this time of people loosing interest, then there might be a nice balanced game at the end, but I don't see it yet. At least that's the way I feel about 7th.

Indeed. Though I think 7th overall is fine, the psychic phase is very poorly done and as you say people are getting tired of having toys they've been using taken away because GW is playing the petulant child due to the Chapterhouse loss. I haven't seen any new players since 7th dropped, but I don't know if that's the reason. Most of the folks who I know considered it before just didn't want to pay their prices anymore. I'm sure that's still a factor, but who knows going forward. I have not liked any of the 7th edition books really. Most of them are just bland. GW seems to want people to pay more money for supplemental codices and dataslates to get them some semblance of variety, but at twice the cost just to get what should have been in the base codex anyway? Color me unimpressed.

Besides, am I the only one who hates their new codex layout? No more convenient army list in the back of the book is stupid IMO. Now I have to flip through multiple pages while trying to build an army and figure out what goes where. Maybe some folks like it, but I think it's absolutely horrible. Now just more wasted space to show mediocre photos of their miniatures. Frankly I preferred the artwork from previous editions.

[40kGamer]

Besides, am I the only one who hates their new codex layout? No more convenient army list in the back of the book is stupid IMO. Now I have to flip through multiple pages while trying to build an army and figure out what goes where. Maybe some folks like it, but I think it's absolutely horrible. Now just more wasted space to show mediocre photos of their miniatures. Frankly I preferred the artwork from previous editions.

I'm not a fan of the new layout. It seems a big step backward from the previous ones.

[Ferrum_Sanguinis]

Am I the only the only considering fielding the Basic Land Raider just for the long range Anti-Tank that it brings?

[Halollet]

Indeed. Though I think 7th overall is fine, the psychic phase is very poorly done and as you say people are getting tired of having toys they've been using taken away because GW is playing the petulant child due to the Chapterhouse loss. I haven't seen any new players since 7th dropped, but I don't know if that's the reason. Most of the folks who I know considered it before just didn't want to pay their prices anymore. I'm sure that's still a factor, but who knows going forward. I have not liked any of the 7th edition books really. Most of them are just bland. GW seems to want people to pay more money for supplemental codices and dataslates to get them some semblance of variety, but at twice the cost just to get what should have been in the base codex anyway? Color me unimpressed.


Same.



Besides, am I the only one who hates their new codex layout? No more convenient army list in the back of the book is stupid IMO. Now I have to flip through multiple pages while trying to build an army and figure out what goes where. Maybe some folks like it, but I think it's absolutely horrible. Now just more wasted space to show mediocre photos of their miniatures. Frankly I preferred the artwork from previous editions.

Oh, hate it a lot. I like the simple design of the past where everything was listed out simply under each header. Also when it was in the middle of the book and not the back so the thing would lay flat when you were writting up lists!


Am I the only the only considering fielding the Basic Land Raider just for the long range Anti-Tank that it brings?

Oh, totally taking one as a Troops Trasport, OS metal barn!

[DarkLink]

Bring back the Way of the Water Warrior.

[daboarder]

Bring back the Way of the Water Warrior.

I always loved how dedicated the Daemonhunters were with that concept

[DarkLink]

We work with the tools we're given.

[Ferrum_Sanguinis]

I keep trying to find a justification to give a unit, any unit, Nemesis Falchions because I love the look but I just can't do it. An extra attack is just not worth 4 pts especially when the +1S Halberd is only 2, to say nothing of how Hammerhand now makes taking even just the swords viable.

[Wildcard]

I keep trying to find a justification to give a unit, any unit, Nemesis Falchions because I love the look but I just can't do it. An extra attack is just not worth 4 pts especially when the +1S Halberd is only 2, to say nothing of how Hammerhand now makes taking even just the swords viable.

That way it is super situational. Thing is, Halberd affects no way any instant death threshold that GK can achieve.(hammerhand + halberd arent enough to ID toughness 4 unit and with hammerhand alone you can ID toughness 3).

Since GK seems to have to eliminate its enemies now in close combat, even more than in previous incarnation of the codex. I'd go for extra attacks, because of the possibility of getting +2Str and re-rolls to hit anyway (hammerhand and that divination power)

[plawolf]

Just to rub salt into the wound, the assassins they stripped out have become really awesome now apparently. You just need to pay more (real world cash) to use them. I'd expect something similar when they bring our the =I= elements in a separate book. Yay...

[DarkLink]

Falchions are much better than Halberds, but cc upgrades really aren't worth it at all for the most part., except to throw a few hammers in here and there.

[Blood Shadow]

That way it is super situational. Thing is, Halberd affects no way any instant death threshold that GK can achieve.(hammerhand + halberd arent enough to ID toughness 4 unit and with hammerhand alone you can ID toughness 3).

Since GK seems to have to eliminate its enemies now in close combat, even more than in previous incarnation of the codex. I'd go for extra attacks, because of the possibility of getting +2Str and re-rolls to hit anyway (hammerhand and that divination power)

Whilst I don't disagree that falchions are worth 4 points, why are you worried about ID thresholds, they're force weapons....

[Wildcard]

Whilst I don't disagree that falchions are worth 4 points, why are you worried about ID thresholds, they're force weapons....

My point was that by strenght itself you cannot get hits that ID toughness 4, thus stacking the strenght isn't worth it.

And also worth noticing that i comment practically from my local metas point of view, where toughness 5+ is a true rarity, yet alone T5 with multiple wounds. I think i've played once against bikes. I am only one with ogryns, no nids on our games. Only things with higher toughness are those that eldar and chaos space marines (+ daemon allies) can produce, so basically wraith construct (no wraithknights seen yet) and daemon princes what has been on the table..

[Patrick Boyle]

Just to rub salt into the wound, the assassins they stripped out have become really awesome now apparently. You just need to pay more (real world cash) to use them. I'd expect something similar when they bring our the =I= elements in a separate book. Yay...

Why do people keep talking as though this hasn't already happened? Codex: Inquisition was released as an E-book 8-9 months ago.