Fed up of Nerd Elitism.

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

So this is something I've brought up before, and of which 'FAKE GEEK GIRL' is just a single, albeit significant, part.

My mate posted this up on Facebook, and it inspired this thread.

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10569063_929854993697740_2797352399136217213_n.jpg ?oh=5a443c276a25b32416457299d0366b06&oe=547B8011

It's as if we've forgotten the misery of being excluded during our early geek days. Not so much by fellow geeks, but you know, society in general. Thankfully, society is a lot more soft on geeks and nerds nowadays for a host of reasons.

And yet the snooty elitism has shifted from being on the geek, to coming from the geek.

Why? What's the bloody point in it? After all, there's nothing like a good nerdchat, where we can froth away to our heart's content about all those films, books, comics, TV series, anime and games we love so dearly. Shutting people out or being derisive in totally counter productive.

But more importantly, what can we do proactively to help stamp it out? Is there an existing campaign interested parties might be able to join?

[Chronowraith]

I've never experienced this but then.. I've been reading comics and playing video games for roughly 30 years, and roleplaying and tabletop gaming for 25 years.

I really enjoy meeting people interested in one of my "nerd" hobbies who are either interested due to pop culture or just looking for something interesting. Of course, I worked at a comic shop for years too so talking people into the hobby was part of my job.

I don't see this attitude very frequently, but it always pisses me off when I do. I've seen people by 2-3 comics a week and look down on the newcomer and act like they know everything about comics. I usually ignore them and try to represent a friendlier side of the hobby by answering questions, giving suggestions, or talk about the past/future of whatever they are interested in.

[Anggul]

For some of 'our kind' it's their bizarre idea of an ego. It's the same sort of way some 40k players will run a boring list of the same unit just for the sake of rolling a load of dice and having their opponent remove their army from the board rather than actually playing... and then acting as if it's their tactical genius that won the game and they're better than you. I say just ignore them and leave them in their own daft little world.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Every nerdy hobby/interest has elitism.

For example, I come from the Industrial scene and oh my god is that full of it - you have groups proclaiming X subgenre to be better than Y ones, you have the typical "its not music" mentalities, the ones that hate X Genre/think it's the best thing since sliced bread, you got the "it doesnt use REAL instruments so it isnt REAL music" guys, you got the strict dress-code/fashion ****s...the list goes on. I think it's sadly turned away a lot of potential fans or people otherwise interested.

All you can really do though is just try and avoid it as much as you can and be positive as much as you can and if people take an interest in your nerd-hobby, welcome them with open arms and introduce them to the people that ARE awesome, cos theres lots of those too! :)

[eldargal]

I've never experienced this but then.. I've been reading comics and playing video games for roughly 30 years, and roleplaying and tabletop gaming for 25 years.
It's really more obvious if you're a girl/woman. I've been playing video games since I was five, tabletop games since 8 and reading scifi and fantasy since I was little as well and I still get met with suspicion and gatekeeper-y, fake geek girl paranoia. It's funny sometimes though, saw one guy say something like 'She only got into fantasy because of the LOTR films' and get called out by his friend who pointed out that was how he got into fantasy too. But often they don't get called out. However a guy gets into a nerdy fandom he is welcomed as a legitimate addition. Guy watches Avengers, decides he likes superheroes, is welcomed as a new fan. Girl watches Avengers, decides she likes superheroes, buys comics, makes a costume, fake geek out looking for attention.

[euansmith]

I, for one, welcome any new geeks in to the fold. They can be over enthusiastic and wearing, but that is a small price to pay for a larger herd.

[Chronowraith]

It's really more obvious if you're a girl/woman. I've been playing video games since I was five, tabletop games since 8 and reading scifi and fantasy since I was little as well and I still get met with suspicion and gatekeeper-y, fake geek girl paranoia. It's funny sometimes though, saw one guy say something like 'She only got into fantasy because of the LOTR films' and get called out by his friend who pointed out that was how he got into fantasy too. But often they don't get called out. However a guy gets into a nerdy fandom he is welcomed as a legitimate addition. Guy watches Avengers, decides he likes superheroes, is welcomed as a new fan. Girl watches Avengers, decides she likes superheroes, buys comics, makes a costume, fake geek out looking for attention.


You are correct, this does happen with women more than men. But I see it happen with men too. It's just a different attitude.

Women who enter the comic shop are seen in one of two ways... innocent and ignorant to the nerd stuff or they are simply seen as meat. I've seen a pretty even mix to this. Either some guy approaches her and treats her like she is a mentally handicapped 5 year old or they go over and start acting as sly as they can (which is usually pretty comical itself).

Guys are tested. Usually this involves knowledge or perhaps playing a game if it's a tabletop game store but how the guy performs determines where he falls in the pecking order. If he falls too low then it's like a story out of Divergent and they fall off the end into a pool of equally disdained factionless people.

[Gotthammer]

Some of it stems from people saying things to the effect of "I'm an outcast because my hobbies and interests are derided", but when those things become geek-chic or at least not as big a social faux-pas to be interested in they suddenly have to deal with the fact it's not their hobbies, but rather that they're toxic, whining, petulant, children who think that hating on popular things and being negative about everything witty and intelligent when really its just being a boorish *******.
So they react by pushing back against the "posers" because if everyone's interested in comics it wont be such a small group that people will be forced to put up with them any more.

Edit: Just saw this:


You hear all these “you’re not a real fan unless” and it lists a hundred things, but I met a dude today who saw my Deadpool pin and asked what my favorite story arc was, and I explained that while I loved Deadpool, I was new to Marvel (I only really got into it a year and a half ago) and hadn’t been able to find a lot of the comics. Instead of making a face or a derogatory comment, he just offered to send me all the stuff he had. That is a true fan.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Nerd elitism is the pits.

My wife used to get the usual "oh is this for your boyfriend/brother", and would reply along the lines of "mother****er, I can calculate THAC0 in my head".

[eldargal]

Yup and there is a strong element of misogyny in it too. For example you see statements that run roughly:

I am a geek and I was bullied at school. Therefore to be a geek you have to have been bullied at school. This girl/woman won't have been bullied at school for Reasons, therefore she cannot be a geek.

Ignoring that girls going through puberty can be just as socially awkward, weird looking and unfashionable and at the mercy of the 'cool kids' as much as boys but on top of that the boy geeks wouldn't have anything to do with us. Though at least in my case it was because there were no boys at my school but the point stands... What it boils down to is 'I wanted to date the cheerleader, I ignored the geeky girls and now they are in my face and I can't ****ing handle it because they are still ignoring me because I'm a little ****'.

[Captain Bubonicus]

I saw a comedian (can't remember which one) point out that back in the day, you had to hide your porn but you could leave your D&D books laying out. Now, you have to hide your nerd books, but you can leave the porn out on the coffee table.

[bfmusashi]

Step 1: Know your geeky hobby is stupid as hell
Step 2: Celebrate how stupid it is. I don't mean ironic derision, I mean straight up grab onto that stupid and hold on tight, because the stupid is where the fun lives.
Step 3: Actively put people in their place that use their stupid hobby as a way to express power over others.

I've also never understood cross fandom hate. Like Warhammer Vs. Warmachine/ Star Wars Vs. Star Trek/ MMO A Vs. MMO B/ etc. like they can't be enjoyed mutually.

[YorkNecromancer]

Nerd elitism is the exercise of power - it's about the use of social power or status to achieve a sense of control at the expense of another. It's a form of refined social aggression, a way to assert dominance without the use of violence or name calling which would bring down social censure from the others in the group.

Despite what they might have been told, nerds and geeks are basically exactly like everyone else. In education, you're taught that when children are aggressive there are three basic stages of aggressive behaviour: think of them as 'levelled up' versions of the previous one. The most obvious is violence, the second is name calling, and the final is social exclusion. Children learn very quickly that violence is the most obvious and thus the hardest to get away with; indeed, the only people who retain the use of violence as their key method of aggression tend to be quite seriously socially maladjusted.

Name calling is a little easier to get away with, so that lasts longer: indeed, if it's possible to get away with it, it flourishes as a form of aggression. Just look at the problems of Xbox Live, filled to the brim with little boys, so desperate to assert themselves over others that they will use the foulest racist, sexist and homophobic language because it is the most powerful, and thus most fully demonstrates their dominance.

Finally, the most sophisticated form of aggression is excluding people socially. This is the one girls learn quickest, because we as a society are quicker to chastise them for the other two than boys. Social exclusion is a form of aggression which is almost impossible to stop, because the aggressive, punitive form looks exactly the same as the passive 'I just don't like this person' form, and is impossible to police. Given that being 'kicked out' of your primary social group is one of the most terrifying things which can occur in the first world, the power social exclusion holds is tremendous. To anyone who says otherwise, I give you the thing we call 'peer pressure', which works entirely on the fear of being rejected by one's peers. How many children take up smoking just to fit in? How many soldiers have done terrible things because their buddies were? Fear of social rejection is a profound and atavistic thing, and if exploited, can be exceedingly powerful as a tool of social control.

Thus, a person with the desire to exert power through aggression can always use social exclusion as their prime tool to assert that dominance - the dominance they frequently feel is lacking in the other aspects of their life. They can't control their job, their chances, their whatever - we all feel powerless a lot of the time after all - and so they exercise it in those ways that they can: by 'punishing' others for whatever percieved 'wrong' they are interested in. Someone who knows more about X will have expertise, and thus power in the field of X. Thus, while they cannot feel powerful in the 'real world', they are powerful in the field of X, meaning they take it out on others in the field.

When you were at school, you could have been picked on by those 'cool kids' who had social power because they flouted the rules - it might have been because you don't smoke, or because you didn't like football; it could be because you like the uncool band, or because you're Jewish, or black, or a woman, or a Muslim or whatever. The excuse is irrelevant, all that matters is the behaviour, which almost always comes from a place of personal insecurity: they didn't have power somewhere, but they had power over you. It's often got misogyny because that's a place of power for men, whether they want it to be or not. The source of the power is irrelevant - look at TERFs: they pick on trans women becase they have the 'power' of being born genetically female.

Consider that those who get all nerd elitist are doing so because they're basically insecure and scared - they don't have a stable sense of their own validity - so they exercise what little they do have over those they percieve as 'lesser' than them, based on their prior life experiences. Hence why women get patronised: because there are no female geeks. After all, they've never seen one, which means that any they actually encounter are, by definition, lying. It becomes a vicious, self-fulfilling prophecy, driven by their desperate insecurity.

As a side note to this, I like the fact that GW proudly admit they do no market research, then say that they don't make female models because boys will stop buying, and no girls play wargames. It's like: how do you know this if you've never done market research?

"Because those are my personal experiences from growing up, and there are no female geeks. I mean, I've never seen one, which means that any who say they are, are liars."

I post this story here as it's linked to this: http://jezebel.com/pregnant-woman-discovers-husband-is-vile-reddit-troll-w-1616741523

Here's someone who feels powerless in life, so he engages in the most reprehensible behaviour to take back what he feels is a measure of control. It's clear: he's the one with the problem, but yet because he's too insecure to face up to that, let alone do anything about it, others suffer. As with so many things in life, the first step is admitting you have a problem.

[Chronowraith]

I think that the stereotype of geeks being bullied is just that, a stereotype. Some get bullied, some don't. I think whether they get bullied has more to do with the social skills of them and those around them.

Case in point... I've never been bullied at work, school, or anywhere else about my geekyness. I've had people call what I do "dumb" or "nerdy" but that's not bullying. That's simply an uninformed opinion. Of course, maybe I was never bullied because of my size and appearance (I don't look like a geek) but that's just a guess.

Most bullying I see being done to other geeks/nerds/etc comes directly from others who claim the same status. They feel they must prove they are a better nerd than others.

[eldargal]

I've also never understood cross fandom hate. Like Warhammer Vs. Warmachine/ Star Wars Vs. Star Trek/ MMO A Vs. MMO B/ etc. like they can't be enjoyed mutually.

Yup that annoys me too. I grew up watching Star Wars and Star Trek and lots of others and I love them both dearly and loving one doesn't cheapen my love of the other.

Great post YorkN.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Great post, YorkN.