Nagash Returns & Nurgle Gets some Love!

[Mr Mystery]

So while I'm certain that the End Times books are where the rumors came from regarding armies being rolled together I don't think this is actually army books. Nagash clearly states to reference Lore of Nehekara and Lore of Vampires in their respective books. If they were rolling everything together permanently then they would roll all that information into the Nagash book.

From my perspective (and this is upheld in the advertising) these supplements are just that, supplements that tie into a book campaign. So people can keep their underwear on and their torches at home over various factions being deleted or merged with other books.

As much as I love WFB and I do love the Nagash figure... I have to hold out. Spending almost 200 dollars for a single figure and a book just isn't going to happen at the moment (fixing the house up in preparation to move).

Pretty much my understanding too. Nagash can filed a unified Undead horde, but the Undead are otherwise still their respective types.

Which kind of fits.

Having mine delivered to the Edinburgh store, which will involve a wee Bus trip up the town early doors on Saturday. Especially as I want those cards too. Haven't missed a set released yet, and not about to start now!

[Krefey]

Pretty keen for this one even though I'm only just starting back into Fantasy. Not sure what I'll get though. Might just get Nagash to paint and the book for a read.

[eldargal]

So, may have been mentioned alreayd but it is rumoured that Tsarina Whatshername of Kislev is still alive and fighting so yay. But Countess Emannuelle of Nuln is 'implied to be dead' which pisses me off no end if accurate. A dozen ****ing electors, most of whom have got waaaaaay more story time than the Countess ever got and they kill her off? Not acceptable, if true. Hoping GW do something like have her not be dead and rally a large Empire army to fight back instead of having some generic ****wit male character do it like every other fantasy setting ever.
Valkia is also leading a Khornate army against the Dark Elves which is cool, not going down the Slaanesh route.

[Wildeybeast]

There are only 11 elector counts. Marius Leitdorf has not had a successor in the current fluff. :p I do however take your point, why not kill off one of the generic chumps.

[Mr Mystery]

To be fair, I think it's more that taking out Nuln deals a severe blow to The Empire, as it's the centre of black powder production within The Empire.

So seems the Countess would just be wrong place, wrong time, rather than some cunning plan to job all the female rulers :)

So keen for this book! And the next ones!

[eldargal]

Yup, when there are only a literal handful of powerful human women in WFB killing one off is a big ****ing deal and it's not about 'narrative'. Gw are usually fairly good at undermining tropes and they have been good boosting the profile of Elven women recently so I'm really, really hoping they have the Countess pop back up and rally the Empire. With a badass model of her on an Imperial griffin.><

To be fair, I think it's more that taking out Nuln deals a severe blow to The Empire, as it's the centre of black powder production within The Empire.

So seems the Countess would just be wrong place, wrong time, rather than some cunning plan to job all the female rulers :)

So keen for this book! And the next ones!

But her being in the wrong place at the wrong time would be a choice. She's a damned aristocrat she could be out at a country estate, she could be in Altdorf, she could rally her troops and fight her way out. Having her die in Nuln would be a choice someone made and its a ****ty ****ing sexist choice if they made it.

[Mr Mystery]

I guess it depends how it was done.

With Neferata firmly siding with Nagash (though one suspects for very much her own reasons and agenda, given her penchant for a relatively peaceful coexistence) if anyone could catch a city with it's pants down by raising an Undead horde from nowhere, it's the Sisters of the Silver Pinnacle.

I suspect she's not dead either. Possibly Vampred good and proper, but not likely dead. Just doesn't strike me as the Lahmian way!

[eldargal]

Except however it was done it means that the one important woman in the Empire is dead and the job of defending the world is left to the boys, again.

[Mr Mystery]

But I'm not sure it was done to kill her off because she's a woman. Nuln is a strategic key point within The Empire. And from the Slayer novels, we know it has a strong Lahmian community, with access to all levels of City Society - it's even been rumoured once or twice the Countess herself, noted for her great beauty, might be one of them....

And ultimately, if we're part through a transformation, who is to say how it might turn out? Elector Counts tend to be hereditary positions. And that's a lot of Counts and their Sons going off to do their duty on the battlefield, leaving the daughters at home.... Could be seeing a mostly female led Empire in the future, as all the menfolk got dead.

[eldargal]

I'm sure it wasn't, but that is part of the problem. They have a situation where powerful human women are few and far between (and **** historical realism, its a fantasy setting) and I doubt it crossed their mind that killing off one of the few powerful human women there is would be a problematic thing.
Like I said we only know that it is 'implied she is dead' and that is just a rumour. I'm hoping GW end up having her coming back and rallying the Empire because that would be genuinely unusual, its always men that get to do stuff like that. I just really hope GW are aware of what they are doing and that they are going somewhere good with it.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeedy.

And as for historical stuff? I quite agree. Fantasy setting is Fantasy, and if you have issue with women in positions of power, but not Dragons and Technosorcery Wielding Ratmen you probably need to go have a quiet word with yourself.

Besides, Macbeth certainly implies women being the power behind the throne was perhaps more common than we might think, and after all it's not necessarily the sort of thing that gets written down!

[eldargal]

On the plus side, Neferata, yay.:p

[Mr Mystery]

I suspect she may prove instrumental in Nagash's eventual defeat (and I do believe he'll be defeated!).

She's proven to be ruthless in the cunningly entitled Neferata novel, and has as mentioned above always adopted a more softly softly, control through cat's paws approach. I suspect her allying is one of self preservation, as you really don't want to stand against Nagash when he comes knocking!

[Brakkart]

Yeah I've just started reading Neferata and already there's her philosophy of "The undead cannot rule the living, they can only destroy them" coming through loud and clear. I suspect she's with Nagash despite being an enemy of his, as she's sensibly following the old adage of "it's better to be at the side of the devil than in his way". she'll wait and bide her time and look for the best moment to turn things to her advantage just as she's always done.

[Mr Mystery]

It's infinitely easier to survive if one is not in fact dead!

[AirHorse]

It's infinitely easier to survive if one is not in fact dead!

Interesting choice of words there :P

[Mr Mystery]

Difference twixt Undeath and Death :p

[Darren Richardson]

This Female Elector of Nuln, is she the one who popped up in the Genevieve books?

If so, I expect she would have survived, she seems to have that knack, and I'm sure Gene's "grandmam" had took a fancy to her as well :D

[daboarder]

This Female Elector of Nuln, is she the one who popped up in the Genevieve books?

If so, I expect she would have survived, she seems to have that knack, and I'm sure Gene's "grandmam" had took a fancy to her as well :D

I dont think the Gene books are really cannon. While I like newman's work it doesnt quite fit in fantasy as is.

NB: for those interested in reading more about Gene, she is also a character in Newmans other works anno dracula

[eldargal]

The plays based on the story of Genevieve by whatsisname are canon so it's sort of hinted that she might be too, they are mentioned indirectly in one of the Ulrika novels.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup. And Drachenfels seems to have been historical fact as well - kind of.

Trouble is, weren't the Genevieve books set some time before the current era? If I'm right, we're either looking at two different Countesses, or The Countess Emmanuelle is indeed one of the Undead, and has been for some time!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'm sure it wasn't, but that is part of the problem. They have a situation where powerful human women are few and far between (and **** historical realism, its a fantasy setting) and I doubt it crossed their mind that killing off one of the few powerful human women there is would be a problematic thing.
Like I said we only know that it is 'implied she is dead' and that is just a rumour. I'm hoping GW end up having her coming back and rallying the Empire because that would be genuinely unusual, its always men that get to do stuff like that. I just really hope GW are aware of what they are doing and that they are going somewhere good with it.

This. So this. I want WHF's equivilent of Queen Boudica! THAT would get me excited!

[Darren Richardson]

Yup. And Drachenfels seems to have been historical fact as well - kind of.

Trouble is, weren't the Genevieve books set some time before the current era? If I'm right, we're either looking at two different Countesses, or The Countess Emmanuelle is indeed one of the Undead, and has been for some time!

No, Karl Franz is the Emperor in the Gene books, I seem to believe that the books may be set a decade or so before current events unfolding in the new books, I know both Konrad and Gotrek and Felix are mentioned in the Gene books, and G&F are in their early years as a partnership if that helps.

[Mr Mystery]

You sure?

I could have sworn the Emperor in the Genevieve books was Karl Franz's Dad, rather than the man himself?

Seems I am in the wrong on this one! (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Detlef_Sierck)

[eldargal]

This. So this. I want WHF's equivilent of Queen Boudica! THAT would get me excited!

Yup, but without the losing an dying bit.:p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

New Tsarina Katarin riding bear-drawn battle-chariot, IMO.

[daboarder]

sigh, I always wish they had done more gene, books, always loved that style, and that character

[Darren Richardson]

You sure?

I could have sworn the Emperor in the Genevieve books was Karl Franz's Dad, rather than the man himself?

Seems I am in the wrong on this one! (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Detlef_Sierck)

Yeah Mystery I was sure, I recently got hold and read the complete Omnibus for a £1 in a charity shop!

[eldargal]

New Tsarina Katarin riding bear-drawn battle-chariot, IMO.


That too would be nice.

While I'm worried I do have some hope GW are going somewhere good with this. They do have a tendency to undermine a lot of tropes and they did really well with all the Elves recently with the Everqueen basically telling the elf patriarchy to go **** itself and just taking back a heap of the power the Everqueens had prior to the Phoenix King being instituted.

Genevieve was great.

[daboarder]

I dunno eldar gal, if anything I'd say it looks liek GW has been going in the opposite direction with regards to their gender distribution. we're losing the female characters due to a lack of sculpts (we lost the Inquisitor and likely will lose malys)

we didnt get back ariel either

[eldargal]

It's hard to say, all that could be part of the 'no model, no rules' thing they have going right now. Fantasy has basically stayed the same. We got the Everqueen back, didn't get Ariel. Got Hellebron and some new Dark Elf wimmin, lost armoured Dark Elf warriors (which was such a shame even if the kit sucked). The DE release will be a proper release with kits unlike Codex: Inquisition so if we don't get a Malys model and she disappears from the codex then we have a problem.

[daboarder]

I'm just not sure what they'd fold malys into....maybe they'll be smart and throw a few extra pieces onto the vect/dias box (which lets be honest is probably inevitable) she doesnt really fit with anything other than kabalites

[eldargal]

Plastic incubi box? Share some legs, different torso, head an arms. Throwing her in with a Vect box would also make sense. Even a plastic character clampack of her own. they have options.

[Erik Setzer]

Yeah I've just started reading Neferata and already there's her philosophy of "The undead cannot rule the living, they can only destroy them" coming through loud and clear. I suspect she's with Nagash despite being an enemy of his, as she's sensibly following the old adage of "it's better to be at the side of the devil than in his way". she'll wait and bide her time and look for the best moment to turn things to her advantage just as she's always done.

I hate to say this, but that reminds me a LOT of Sylvanas in World of Warcraft. She isn't even thinking of ruling a world of living people, she wants to kill and raise everyone and make them all undead like her. And when she ended up having to deal with a horrible evil (Garrosh), she opted not to take attention on herself and waited until she could work with others to bring him down.

It would be fittingly ironic if Warhammer "borrowed" ideas from Warcraft after how Warcraft got its start...

[Brakkart]

We got the Everqueen back, didn't get Ariel. Got Hellebron and some new Dark Elf wimmin, lost armoured Dark Elf warriors (which was such a shame even if the kit sucked). The DE release will be a proper release with kits unlike Codex: Inquisition so if we don't get a Malys model and she disappears from the codex then we have a problem.

We got the Maiden Guard back too, albeit renamed as Sisters of Avelorn and that Maiden Guard champion model. I would love to see a new model for the Tsarina (that bear chariot idea sounds ace but then I'm biased cos I love anything with bears), so hoping that whatever human realm exists in the reshaped 9th edition Warhammer world includes her. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Confederation of the various human states of the Old World as a sort of Greater Empire. That would fit with the rumoured Kingdoms of Men compiled army book we've heard of. I think it would make sense in the fluff too after a truly apocalyptic war like these End Times are set to be, a realisation that they need to stand together like never before if they wish to survive. Combine the Empire, what's left of Kislev, Bretonnia and Estalia into one realm would be a very powerful state and would still leave places like Tilea, Sartosa, Araby and the Border Princes for smaller more vulnerable human realms.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I was joking about the Tsarina. But also very much not.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm just not sure what they'd fold malys into....maybe they'll be smart and throw a few extra pieces onto the vect/dias box (which lets be honest is probably inevitable) she doesnt really fit with anything other than kabalites

No need. Plastic stand alone character and you're done.

[Faultie]

So, may have been mentioned alreayd but it is rumoured that Tsarina Whatshername of Kislev is still alive and fighting so yay.This makes me happy, so I hope it's true! I can simply re-imagine my force as the Tsarina's Own, last surviving free-army of the North.

But Countess Emannuelle of Nuln is 'implied to be dead' which pisses me off no end if accurate.
This makes me sad. If it's true, maybe Elspeth von Drakken will have taken over Nuln and turned it into a dark realm that remains free only through her wicked magics. Still Empire, but far darker?

[Austin Becht]

So, hey guys. Wit this, do you think they might make it so that all the undead become a unified type, as opposed to being Nehekharan Undead of VC Undead. So that is to say, they stay Undead with all the same rules, but Nehekharan Undead can march if within range of the General, and VC Undead can benefit from My Will Be done, as some examples. Or is is confirmed that this will not be the case? Either way the combined Undead forces sound pretty cool, and might pull me back into Warhammer, as 7th did for me and 40k.

[Mr Mystery]

Dunno.

Seems possible, but not guaranteed.

Remember - Undead Legions are a new thing, and not a replacement for Tomb Kings or Vampire Counts.

[Erik Setzer]

Dunno.

Seems possible, but not guaranteed.

Remember - Undead Legions are a new thing, and not a replacement for Tomb Kings or Vampire Counts.

I am going to be hammering that book hard this weekend. I have a lot of questions about the merged army list, because their two different types of magic don't really work on each other, and then there's the issue of the generals for the armies, heirophant, stuff like that. So many questions about how it actually works. I hope they put the effort into explaining those rules. It's not something that's a huge deal with other armies, but with Undead, it's a unique situation.

[Darren Richardson]

I am going to be hammering that book hard this weekend. I have a lot of questions about the merged army list, because their two different types of magic don't really work on each other, and then there's the issue of the generals for the armies, heirophant, stuff like that. So many questions about how it actually works. I hope they put the effort into explaining those rules. It's not something that's a huge deal with other armies, but with Undead, it's a unique situation.

Maybe they will finally have the armies run by Necromancers like they used to....

[daboarder]

No need. Plastic stand alone character and you're done.

The special characters aren't getting plastic clam packs, all the plastic characters have come in a box with a new kit.

[Mr Mystery]

Warhammer has had at least a couple, namely Shadowblade and that new Stunty. And Araloth for the Stick Pixies, so that's three.

So it remains a possibility.

[RGilbert26]

The special characters aren't getting plastic clam packs, all the plastic characters have come in a box with a new kit.

New plastic characters are, though they've yet to turn an old character into plastic clampack.

[daboarder]

Logan

[RGilbert26]

Edited it for you :P

[ZeroNoRyouki]

Hi guys!

I just got my hands on the big-guy himself. The sprues are amazing and rich with details:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lrCdLbg1aFk/U_3e3Rwp0CI/AAAAAAAABfA/vFby8WZFr8w/s1600/Nagash%2BSupreme%2BLord%2Bof%2Bthe%2BUndead%2B002. JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S2GSngktJfc/U_3e7ZPhoTI/AAAAAAAABfQ/vOMsqdZW3ts/s1600/Nagash%2BSupreme%2BLord%2Bof%2Bthe%2BUndead%2B003. JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V9mQpKRoDPo/U_3fhYeJ4KI/AAAAAAAABfY/NXz0kpNBwCE/s1600/Nagash%2BSupreme%2BLord%2Bof%2Bthe%2BUndead%2B004. JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GE7j5emFEwQ/U_3gOrWjtbI/AAAAAAAABfw/vHjahpe2crg/s1600/Nagash%2BSupreme%2BLord%2Bof%2Bthe%2BUndead%2B007. JPG

More pics on my blog here (http://apaintingchaos.blogspot.it/2014/08/nagash-supreme-lord-of-undead.html). Enjoy :)

[eldargal]

Nice.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Lovely stuff. Bet it goes together like a dream, too, all their recent kits have. Logan's amazing.

[ZeroNoRyouki]

Lovely stuff. Bet it goes together like a dream, too, all their recent kits have. Logan's amazing.

It look like it, there are many guide bits all over the place. The manual is top noch
Also, it think it would also be easy to paint in sub-assemblies, namely the main body and the "supports".

EDIT: I just noticed that they included the army list entry in the manual (in english, french and german)

[Erik Setzer]

It look like it, there are many guide bits all over the place. The manual is top noch
Also, it think it would also be easy to paint in sub-assemblies, namely the main body and the "supports".

White Dwarf actually had a page showing that and talking about the pieces they recommended leaving separate while painting. They also recommended sticking some of the bits onto flying bases with a touch of super glue to make them easier to hold while painting.

[Darren Richardson]

I have to say there does seem to be a LOT of thin fiddly parts to him, I can see someone clumsy like me really messing up when removing parts from those sprues.....

[Wolfshade]

Could they have fitted any thing else on the sprue?! That is the most crowded one that I have seen.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I think that if you've bought a kit that intricate (and expensive), it's worth taking the time and energy to make sure you put it together and paint it Right.

[Timmay]

Don't know if anyone has seen these, but here are some pics from the book:

109041090510906109071090810909

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Not needing a Hierophant or Vampire alive and kicking is huge. More so for TK.

[Erik Setzer]

Not needing a Hierophant or Vampire alive and kicking is huge. More so for TK.

Similarly, it sounds like Tomb Kings Undead can now actually move more freely than they could in the past. It'll be interesting to see how the modified Undead rules work in their entirety.

I really hope this isn't something I have to beg my opponents to be able to use, I'd really like to be able to play my combined Undead all the time. (Also, the Morghasts are pretty nice ruleswise, so if they aren't too expensive, I'll be getting some, and the idea of not being able to use them, or any of those not even remotely cheap characters, or the over $100 Nagash, is just kind of sad... and would actually make me likely to pass on most, if not all, of those models.)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The book says quite clearly that rules within it supersede rules in the BRB, VCs and Tomb Kings books. Of course, always agree with your opponent what you're going to play, but the book backs you up. It's my experience that the Fantasy community is much more relaxed with letting people use their cool models and rules than 40k is.

[Erik Setzer]

The book says quite clearly that rules within it supersede rules in the BRB, VCs and Tomb Kings books. Of course, always agree with your opponent what you're going to play, but the book backs you up. It's my experience that the Fantasy community is much more relaxed with letting people use their cool models and rules than 40k is.

Well, up until Nagash, the big models in Fantasy were pretty much on par with each other, and almost every army had one.

In 40K, you have some like super-heavies that just muck things up, or you can take three Riptides in 1500 points whereas in Fantasy you can't take three Terrorgheists in 1500 points. (But on the subject of that example, a guy last weekend who was using two of them in a game mentioned that there's a tournament where taking two Terrorgheists can seriously impact your comp scores. After seeing what they can do, I totally believe it.)

[Learn2Eel]

Well, up until Nagash, the big models in Fantasy were pretty much on par with each other, and almost every army had one.

In 40K, you have some like super-heavies that just muck things up, or you can take three Riptides in 1500 points whereas in Fantasy you can't take three Terrorgheists in 1500 points. (But on the subject of that example, a guy last weekend who was using two of them in a game mentioned that there's a tournament where taking two Terrorgheists can seriously impact your comp scores. After seeing what they can do, I totally believe it.)

As a Vampire Counts player that almost always uses two Terrorgheists in my army lists (my regular games are 2000+ points), I can speak from experience when I say that they hit like a truck but aren't that difficult to deal with if you have the right tools. A 6+ Regeneration save as their only defence (behind six wounds at Toughness 6) makes them fodder for Poisoned close combat/shooting attacks, while cannons have a field day against them (not so much bolt throwers and stone throwers though). They are terrible in close combat for a monster and one that should only be sent into a melee against chaff units or massed Archers and the like. Their flying movement is very nice but they need to stay near the General otherwise they will get caught out too easily, while you need to keep them at full wounds for their shooting attack to work. It is poor against Elves and especially units like Warlocks or Sisters of the Thorn, but it is really good against enemy monsters that typically have Leadership 7 or lower. The key is not to be over-aggressive with them as they will fall in an instant against any kind of dedicated shooting/close combat attacks. They are fantastic and easily the best Rare choice but they only really work wonders in the hands of a cautious player, mine die far too frequently because I over-extend with them just to get a shot in!

[Krefey]

Could they have fitted any thing else on the sprue?! That is the most crowded one that I have seen.

Have you seen the Space MArien Centurion and Sternguard sprues? I reckon they are more crowded. I was thinking recently about how great al this computer generated stuff is because they can much more easily cram things into a sprue compared to the older methods.

[Wildeybeast]

I think these new rules for undead have to be optional. They supersede the BRB only in the same way storm of Magic or Triumph and Treachery do, in that if you are playing a game with that rule set you use those. Whatever it calls itself, this is an expansion and therefore optional. You cannot have a situation where there is an additional rule set outside the main rule book which is mandatory, so people have to buy two books.

[Mr Mystery]

24 hours until I get my mitts on it!

I still has an excite!!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Gonna try and grab the ibook when it goes live tonight, so I should beat you for a few hours, barring a Space Wolfes style snafu. :)

And yeah, I've not been this excited about a Warhammer book since... I've not been this excited about a Warhammer book.

[Mr Mystery]

Sadly, seems all four packs of the Nagash cards in the Edinburgh store are 'gone'. Which is a bit of a cheek to be honest, as I believe in first come first served....

But going to be up there for opening, so with any luck I'll be able to squeak it!

[RGilbert26]

If it's a GW Store then phone GW HQ and find out if Managers can reserve limited stock like the cards as I believe they are first come fisrt served.

[Mr Mystery]

If it's a GW Store then phone GW HQ and find out if Managers can reserve limited stock like the cards as I believe they are first come fisrt served.

Probably not worth the hassle. Not as if the contents are required to use the book. Just gonna have to risk it for a biscuit!

[RGilbert26]

They'll probably say it's the prerogative of the Manager to do what he wants.

[Mr Mystery]

Would likely fall under customer service stuff.

Hey ho. Two can play that game. Local manager for me is going to see if he can stash a set aside until I can get down there on Thursday.

[tanfew]

I don't want to be that guy, but does anyone have an image of Crom the Conqueror? want to see what his rules are like this time around :)

Thanks in advance

[Mr Mystery]

There is one on here somewhere, but if memory serves it's in Spanish.

PS. Don't fancy his chances much against Vlad....

[tanfew]

Lols unless he is a uber brick like last time no me neither xD. Yeah saw those but don't speak Spanish (wish I could it'd make rumours so much easier xD)

[Mr Mystery]

Is it 11:00 a.m. on Saturday yet?

And if so, why am I here and not patiently waiting outside GW Edinburgh for to pick up my books?

[eldargal]

Moartarchs be up, £48. (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Mortarch-Neferata)

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207027_Neferata01.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207027_Neferata02.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207027_ArkhanBlackBox01.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207027_Mannfed01.jpg
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207027_ArkhanBlack01.jpg
<redacted half a dozen truly terrible undead puns>

Hehe, pundead.

[Learn2Eel]

To say I am extremely lucky would be an understatement :D That's the 750th out of 750 Limited Edition Nagash sets! As a side note, I also got the magic cards, Nagash himself, a Treeman Ancient and two Warsphinxes today :) Boo yeah!

10944

[Mr Mystery]

Got my book....

Wow is all I can say.

Wow, wow and thrice wow.

So. Much. Background. £50 seeme a bit pricey, but for those put off? The background book is rulebook thick, and the book with the rules and scenarios? Codex/Army Book thick.

Fifth time - wow.

[eldargal]

Not got mine yet.>< So spoiler questions:

what up with Neferata?

What's mentioned about Countess of Nuln?

What's happening in Ulthuan and Naggarond?

[Mr Mystery]

Dunno! Barely started reading it!

Countess Von Liebwitz nearly burned as a Witch, but has so far survived....

[eldargal]

Read faster!:p

[Mr Mystery]

Ulthuan and Naggaroth seem to be in deep doodoo....

[eldargal]

Need doodoo specificity.

[Mr Mystery]

Naggaroth besieged, Malekith not in the least bit happy.... Malus Darkblade planning rebellion.

Tyrion and Teclis have had a spat, and Tyrion's daughter kidnapped....

Talk of the 'mirror of light and dark shattering, and Aernarion's heirs will fight for the legacy of Khaine amidst the ashes of the Phoenix'....

Aaaaaand a sort of civil war of self interest in Ulthuan.... Tyrion, Imrik and Finubar..

[eldargal]

They need to stop kidnapping peoples daughters already.><

[Mr Mystery]

They need to stop kidnapping peoples daughters already.><

Seems Aliathra was Tyrion's daughter.....the dirty boy!

And the entire Ogre race is on the march..

[Kirsten]

I want a neferata. and some undead.

[Mr Mystery]

Aliathra.....not dead!

Really though she'd bought the farm in Blood of Sigmar, but seems to still be kicking!

[eldargal]

Hope Aliathra isnt ded.>< Edit: TOLD YOU ALL SO!:p

I've ordered Neferata.:)


I want a neferata. and some undead.
Hur.;)

[Mr Mystery]

Right. Going out on a limb here....

These books are up the quality of the Forgeworld Heresy Series, and deserves to get Warhammer back to the forefront.

Go and buy it, you won't feel sorry!

[Kirsten]

I had to sell my last undead army before I finished it because of unemployment related money issues. maybe at some point I will start undead army number three :p

I like the idea of mixing vampire count and tomb king units, but they are very different stylistically, and a different size of skeleton, so would have to find a way to combine the two successfully.

[eldargal]

Yeah I'm sticking with VC for my Lahmian army.

[Kirsten]

I would like some chariots and skeleton archers though, replacing chariot crews would be easy, but bow armed VC skeletons are trickier

[Mr Mystery]

No more commentary.... Getting into spoiler territory!

[RGilbert26]

Put spoiler tags then and carry on.

Out of the three Mortarchs my favourite is Neferata, overall she looks better than the other two.

Still contemplating starting a VC army/VC units only Undead Legion army. Handy thing is with the Nagash How to Paint vids I know I can paint him, plus I only need 1000 points of VC to field him (plus half a ton of VC units to summon).

[Mr Mystery]

Started a new thread in Warhammer General Discussion, making it clear it will contain spoilers!

[Wildeybeast]

I started reading that because I'm so excited to know what is happening, but I stopped because I need to read it for myself!

[Erik Setzer]

I would like some chariots and skeleton archers though, replacing chariot crews would be easy, but bow armed VC skeletons are trickier

Not that tricky. You can just assemble the Skeleton Archers with only their weapons and use heads that don't have headgear, and you should be fine. Some of them might have a wristband or something, but it's not something that sticks out as Khemri. I've got a bunch of them that could probably pass in a VC army just fine if I had painted them different (the bones are more bleached because they come from the desert, and the bases are done with the desert-colored texture paint).

As for Chariots, I'm digging out my old Skeleton Chariots, they didn't look right in a Khemri army but would fit just fine in a combined Undead army. (Ditto my old Screaming Skull Catapults, of which I have ten, thanks to my dad snatching up a bunch of them back when GW would do extreme sales of overstocked models on its website. Also why I have a bunch of riderless Steeds of Slaanesh...)

[Kirsten]

it isn't the heads that are the problems though, that is easy to sort, it is the fact they are much bigger than the vampire count skeletons

[Bigred]

Mortarchs of Nagash in all their glory!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyCSHwx1Tyc

[Kirsten]

I am impressed that they have managed to make the three mounts look so different in one kit.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I also am finding it hard to resist the siren call of Neferata's enormous hat, but I'm moving at the moment so it probably won't be for a while yet.

[Kirsten]

it is quite magnificent, I think it must have been commissioned from the chaos dwarfs

[Bazkull]

Hey Mr Mystery

Baz here from GW Edinburgh. Sorry you missed out on the cards, shame when we chatted when you popped in on Saturday to pick up your book you didn't mention this as I could have answered your concern straight away.

Since we knew about the Nagash launch here in Edinburgh we started promoting a midnight launch, plus a couple of extra incentives to order from us in store, I guess you missed those as I know you ordered from home. As we opened at midnight the first 4 people that wanted the cards got them, so no nothing cheeky as it was first come first served!

I'd suggest you keep an eye on our Facebook posts if there is another big launch you are interested in as we do try and do something a little bit special for our customers, that way you won't miss out in future.

Hope that clears stuff up for you, really glad to hear you're enjoying the book as much as me! Happy sculpting ;-)

Baz

[Kirsten]

limited edition cards are a really terrible idea. whoever thought that such an everyday hobby essential should be restricted needs their head dunking in the toilet. then given a nipple twist.

[Brakkart]

Couldn't agree with you more Kirsten. The fact that GW Edinburgh had just 4 sets of cards for an entire city of hobbyists is beyond ridiculous, especially as this new Lore can be used by every army. Even if they were to keep it limited, they should still have scaled up how many they printed by a factor of at least ten.

[Erik Setzer]

Couldn't agree with you more Kirsten. The fact that GW Edinburgh had just 4 sets of cards for an entire city of hobbyists is beyond ridiculous, especially as this new Lore can be used by every army. Even if they were to keep it limited, they should still have scaled up how many they printed by a factor of at least ten.

Here in Jacksonville we have one GW store; they had three sets, that's it. There were five people waiting at the store early for it to open. A friend and I went to the store an hour early (thank goodness for the Dunkin Donuts right by it) to wait and get our sets. The really awful thing is that the person who got the third set was a kid who doesn't even play WFB, and the army he wants to get is Ogre Kingdoms, so he doesn't even need the cards (he's not going to be summoning Undead with them). But that left everyone else without a set, including people with Undead armies.

It seems to me like they either didn't even remotely gauge the interest right (which means someone in their marketing research group should be fired with extreme prejudice, if not the entire group responsible for keeping track of the customer base's interests), or they didn't have enough money on hand to do a larger print run. When the two options are serious ineptitude showing a lack of being in touch with your customers, or a problem with having the money to actually keep producing products, that's two choices that just don't look good for a company. It's probably the former, but yeah, heads should roll for that, because it creates bad PR and could have been avoided with the slightest forethought.

- - - Updated - - -


it isn't the heads that are the problems though, that is easy to sort, it is the fact they are much bigger than the vampire count skeletons

Ah... Sorry, I have a hard time recognizing that issue, the Skeleton Warriors I have for my VC army are the older models, which use the same core as the TK Skeletons. I haven't picked up any of the new ones because I figure 80 Skeletons should be enough (and then the Lore of Undeath comes out).

But if you're not mixing them, it might still work. Maybe they're just really hardy hunters who were conscripted into an army as archers, then died, then got raised again? It's not the best story, but at least it's something.

[Kirsten]

possibly, mainly I am thinking the bow arm on its' own might not look too big on a VC skeleton, will have to try on.

[Lord-Boofhead]

limited edition cards are a really terrible idea. whoever thought that such an everyday hobby essential should be restricted needs their head dunking in the toilet. then given a nipple twist.

THIS 1000 times this.

- - - Updated - - -

Also found this (http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-fantasy/gotrek-felix-join-times-story-warhammer/) on my internet wanderings tonight, looks like the reports of Kislev's 'destruction' were some what exaggerated.

[Adam-Wayland]

What was this about some Nurgle rumours?
Seems like that was just random wishlisting.

[MarneusCalgar]

So... seems we have the new WD filtered on the web, as every monday!

Via http://miniwojna.blogspot.com.es and La Taberna de Laurana (http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com.es)

10970109711097210973

[Houghten]

Anything that doesn't already appear in the Nagash book?

[energongoodie]

The fantasy releases just seem to be getting better and better.

[Darren Richardson]

sigh, I ws really trying NOT to start another army, I still have 5 to finish painting up as it is, now all these cool undead, are really tempting me.....

[Mr Mystery]

THIS 1000 times this.

- - - Updated - - -

Also found this (http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-fantasy/gotrek-felix-join-times-story-warhammer/) on my internet wanderings tonight, looks like the reports of Kislev's 'destruction' were some what exaggerated.

Kislev as a country has functionally ceased to be entirely. Last city to fall was Erengrad.

However, the book suggests that as far as anyone knows, there are still Kislevites, including the Tsarina, still fighting.

- - - Updated - - -


possibly, mainly I am thinking the bow arm on its' own might not look too big on a VC skeleton, will have to try on.

Could always make use of the frankly excellent Empire Bowmen kit, and paint/convert them up to be Undead? Pretty much a head swap and you're done.

[eldargal]

Zombie heads on Empire bodies, seen it done, works pretty well.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The Morghasts are great models, and mechanically they're very tasty also. The new spirit hosts are lovely, too. Notice, also, the substantial price reduction: they used to be £11 per base, now it's £18 for three. Ghosts!

[eldargal]

I'm so pleased about new spirit hosts, the old ones were horrific and not in the good way.

[Bigred]

via The Mexican Ork (https://www.facebook.com/mexork) 9-2-2014


Morghast Latest:
10985

[Wolfshade]

Wow!

Well it is now making undead more appealing.


Though I am very VERY excited about what else might be coming out in WFB, these sculpts are goregous (even if I don't like the big man himself).

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Haha, hot leaks from rules which you can buy, in a shop, in English, right now. Or even just open a store copy of a book. Good rumours.

[Wildeybeast]

I was thinking that too. :D To translate, they both have Terror, Killing Blow, Undead and Hover special rules (are they the only models in the game with Hover?). Harbingers have 5+ AS and two hand weapons and are special, the Archai have 4+, halberds and are rare. Both alos have a rule which means they and all untis within 12" suffer one less wound due to instability. Is it just me or is 80 points for a model with only a 5+ armour quite a lot for a fairly fragile model? Anything with great weapons is going to chop these guys up in short order.

[Mr Mystery]

I was thinking that too. :D To translate, they both have Terror, Killing Blow, Undead and Hover special rules (are they the only models in the game with Hover?). Harbingers have 5+ AS and two hand weapons and are special, the Archai have 4+, halberds and are rare. Both alos have a rule which means they and all untis within 12" suffer one less wound due to instability. Is it just me or is 80 points for a model with only a 5+ armour quite a lot for a fairly fragile model? Anything with great weapons is going to chop these guys up in short order.

Which is why they jump infantry and cavalry, and avoid anything resembling a fair fight, as such units should be getting several dozen cheap, disposable and indeed recycleable Zombies to the face. Repeatedly :)

I like them.

[Wildeybeast]

But with Hover their maximum move is 12". They have more flexibility than standard infantry, but they can't pick their fights in the same way cav and flyers can. Stuff like Demigryphs and Wild Riders will duff them up whilst avoiding the chaff. I like the models, but they are overpriced IMO.

[Mr Mystery]

But with Hover their maximum move is 12". They have more flexibility than standard infantry, but they can't pick their fights in the same way cav and flyers can. Stuff like Demigryphs and Wild Riders will duff them up whilst avoiding the chaff. I like the models, but they are overpriced IMO.

Ah, but Hover means they can jump over units thanks to true line of sight. That in itself is a big boon in a movement restricted game like this. Plus, they'll likely be going before anyone that can seriously threaten them, giving them yet another advantage.

[MarneusCalgar]

Seems Lord Mazdamundi is back!

11024

Taken from here: https://www.facebook.com/ElfsDiamond?fref=photo&sk=photos

[Mr Mystery]

Oooooooooooohhhhh! Plakky Frog!

[MarneusCalgar]

Sorry to come again, but seems the image can be fake.

Look here:

https://innsmouthgamingclub.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/the-general-for-the-lizards-takes-shape/

So maybe I was wrong...

Sorry everyone

11025

[Cap'nSmurfs]

That is a really amateurish job they've done, there. Welcome to the world of wargaming rumours.

[DarkChaplain]

Here's a newer picture with an actual paintjob:

https://innsmouthgamingclub.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/conversions-and-kitbashes/

It looks better painted, but still amateurish.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Oh, no, I think the conversion's fun. It's the "leaked image" which is an amateurish job. The angles don't match up, they've tried to cover up their hack-work with "poor lighting"...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Spirit Hosts and moghast units are up..

Quite impressed with the price of the Spirit Hosts! that's quite cheap and if they can be seperated into individual models that's 9 models for £16. Tempted to get some and convert them into some weird Xenos for 40k.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Spirit hosts are now half price, plastic, and look aces.

[eldargal]

Spirit hosts are now half price, plastic, and look aces.

With three stands instead of one.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

That's why they're half price: £11 for the metal stand, so £33 for 3 versus £16 now. And they don't look like ***~

[eldargal]

Yup. Hehe yeah the old ones were horrific.

[Kirsten]

aww, why don't you like the old ghostly backing dancers :p

[Mr Mystery]

aww, why don't you like the old ghostly backing dancers :p

They weren't even dancing in time with each other!

http://www.schrodingerscat.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/CRH.jpg

[Kirsten]

don't discriminate against undead interpretive dancers.

[Mr Mystery]

Being dead is no excuse for not having rhythm!

[Bigred]

Harry's (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?399509-Changes-to-Warhammer-in-2015-aka-quot-The-Spanish-Rumours-quot&p=7264019&viewfull=1#post7264019) BACK from the wilderness!


You may remember last year I was being very vague about some 'radical changes' in a thread about 9th edition.

Back at the start of the year, in one of my first posts of the new year I said this:

I don't think they are trying to destroy it.
I suspect they will be trying their hardest to breath new life into it.
We are not seeing the "End times" for Warhammer just yet.

Did you see what I did there?
The clues are always there fellas.

So I first heard about all this last autumn?
I was told 2014 would be "Year zero" for Warhammer.

Had no idea what that meant at first but if you Google your way to the wikipedia you get this:

The term Year Zero (Khmer: ឆ្នាំសូន្យ chhnam saun), applied to the takeover of Cambodia in April 1975 by the Khmer Rouge, is an analogy to the Year One of the French Revolutionary Calendar. During the French Revolution, after the abolition of the French monarchy (September 20, 1792), the National Convention instituted a new calendar and declared the beginning of the Year I. The Khmer Rouge takeover of Phnom Penh was rapidly followed by a series of drastic revolutionary de-industrialization policies resulting in a death toll that vastly exceeded that of the French Reign of Terror.

The idea behind Year Zero is that all culture and traditions within a society must be completely destroyed or discarded and a new revolutionary culture must replace it, starting from scratch. All history of a nation or people before Year Zero is deemed largely irrelevant, as it will (as an ideal) be purged and replaced from the ground up.

It was made clear to me that this was what we were talking about for warhammer.
Everything that existed being completely destroyed (or discarded) and something new replacing it from scratch ... purged and replaced from the ground up.

I hinted in various posts that they would be getting rid of the existing timeline, the existing map, etc. (In an effort to soften the blow. )

I am going to get this a bit wrong because I honestly can't remember where I heard it but to confirm the three book rumour .... I did hear the "End times" were going to be spread over three books.

Nagash was the first, followed by Malekith followed by Glotkin

Good luck with that!

[Wildeybeast]

But this isn't year zero. That would be getting rid of everything and starting again from scratch. They are shaking things up and moving the timeline on, but not resetting.

[Erik Setzer]

But this isn't year zero. That would be getting rid of everything and starting again from scratch. They are shaking things up and moving the timeline on, but not resetting.

I'm taking that whole spiel with a grain of salt, but I do have to say, they could be using End Times to basically redo the status quo of all of the factions in the Warhammer world and the shape of the world itself before finally redoing the core rules of Warhammer Fantasy Battles in a really major way. That would effectively be a "Year Zero" as you're taking what people "knew" about the world and wiping it out and setting up a new order and structure, and then doing the same with the rules.

[eldargal]

They may be using zero year a bit incorrectly but I think the general gist of it is clear, vast and significant reshaping of the WFB setting which has barely changed in twenty years. much enthusiasm, so exciting. wow.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Warhammer has never really had the sort of timeline ending threat 40k has always had. Now it does, and how! Entire countries (Estalia, Tilea) wiped from the map by Skaven... It's mega is what it is!

[Wildeybeast]

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. What I don't see though is the entire backstory of races being changed. Being expanded on, check. Killing off characters, check (though they did do that with Marius Leitdorf about three editions ago, so not entirely new). Wiping out whole nations, check. Bringing people back, check. What I don't see them doing is getting rid of nations that actually have armies or radically changing their natures/play styles. Gilles Le Breton isn't going to suddenly announce the founding of a Bertonnian Gunnery School for example. I'm excited, just wanted to point out the ridiculousness of Harry crawling out the woodwork to claim he was right all along when what he is claiming to be right about isn't actually happening.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Harry is overegging the pudding for dramatic effect; that whole thing is an "I was right" without any new information. Pure egotripping.

Whatever the hell is "Glotkin", anyway?

[Wildeybeast]

Have to say, I'm disappointed the front page is reporting this meaning less, incorrect and self aggrandising drivel as it is something for they of attention.

[Bigred]

The thing is - I trust Harry's "drivel" over most other rumor mongers "accurate stuff".

He's clearly got the long term contacts and rarely misses. Since Brimstone passed away, he's the last of the rock solid "old-timer rumormongers" out there.

[Wildeybeast]

But is he? Nothing for ages and then he pops up with is 'I was right all along', said in such a fashion that it seems he still isn't right now. Other than the possible names of the books, nothing he has to say is anything other than what we could all hazard a guess at. Should we still be giving creedence to what he says?

[daboarder]

Ahh denial

[Learn2Eel]

Being serious here, is Harry saying there are only three books? As I am pretty darn sure there are four. Not saying he is wrong and I'm not going to enter the "rumour" scene but I am absolutely certain there are four books, not three. That would be: Undead, Chaos, Skaven, Elves. Just my gut feeling though, no source.

[daboarder]

he has a post in warseer in which he states that the 3 could be wrong as he may have forgotten 1.

Interestingly,

Glot = tongue/too speak

Glotkin? Combined non-common speaking armies? ogres, lizards, rats maybe...probably stretchy

[eldargal]

Harry is good, not as accurate as Hastings was and he gets his info second hand from memory so there may be a bit of a drift in what is actually going on. I think he probly heard about End Times and GW planning radical changes but that doesn't mean everything he heard/says is happening or will happen in the way he or others think.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

You say you trust Harry's drivel, but what is there to trust, here? There's no new information.

[Mr Mystery]

I agree.

The 'latest info' does appear to just be grandstanding 'I was right if you squint a bit in the right light' rather than an actual rumour.

[Kirsten]

Harry is a nice guy doing his best to keep people informed as much as he can. he has never been one for grandstanding. personally I am always interested to know what he thinks about things.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I'm sure his past reputation and track record of solid rumours is sound; obviously the post he made months ago that this references was spot on about a lot of things. Which is good! This latest thing does nothing except say "I told you so" plus mansplain Year Zero.

Maybe I'm being uncharitable, if so, I'm sorry. But these days a lot of very mild stuff gets called a "bombshell" or a "revelation", and it just isn't. Faeit the other day had a "spotted - a new undead miniature in plain sight!?". It was the standard from the skeleton warriors box. Then we had the "revealed - Morghast rules in Spanish!" when the Nagash book had been out for a few days. VotCG says there's an Inquisition release next week, right? Looks a lot like Space Hulk from here! I won't go on and on.

Actual rumours are great. They can be fun. But at the moment there's a lot of clickbait nonsense going up without a lot of real thought or discernment. Which, ironically, drowns out the real information peddled by people honestly trying to give a heads-up.

[Wildeybeast]

Harry is a nice guy doing his best to keep people informed as much as he can. he has never been one for grandstanding. personally I am always interested to know what he thinks about things.

Which is exactly what makes this so odd. It is clearly grandstanding and contains no actual info beyond the names of books. Why the student need to justify himself? Tbh, I don't much care what anyone says, GW has clearly locked down the 'leaks' and anything beyond a couple of weeks is about as reliable as a totally unreliable thing. GW let us know what they want us to know, when they want us to know it, just like they always have.