All Is Quiet on the Western Front: Anecdotal Evidence of Doom

[Caitsidhe]

I brought this up last month (or the mont before), but it bears mention again. I have taken note in a trend, a pattern that Games Workshop should find alarming. Of course, per Kirby's recent letter, we now officially know that they proudly do no market research. One would presume that means they don't really keep an eye on places like BOLS, Warseer, DakkaDakka, 3++, and all the others. If they were keeping an eye on these "canaries in the coal mine" they would have taken note of the dramatic drops in activity. Last time I brought this up, several people chimed in that it was just summer. I accepted this and starting going back as far as I could to see what previous summers looked like as far as activity. I couldn't find any specialized stats or reports so I had to do it the hard way. What I found was that summer, in the halcyon days of past, did not seem to change activity or drop posts all that much.

The last two days here at BOLS in the Forum have been a Ghost Town. Let's tell the truth and shame the devil, it was a ghost town prior to that too. Most of the posts are made by a small group of people. When those aren't posting for one reason or another, "all is silent in the halls of the dead". There is a group of die hard types who will defend Games Workshop come what may. They always say the same thing, that internet commentary doesn't have anything to do with the larger gaming community. I always laugh when I hear that. For starters, we aren't that large a community (even worldwide) and most of us do use the internet. It seems a rather strange stance to take, but then I remind myself that they aren't really sorting something out logically. They already have their opinion and merely wish to discredit anything which supports the notion that they are wrong. Such is life.

Looking across the many, many Forums and sites where our community comes to chatter, I see the same thing over and over again. There is a sinister lull, a disinterest, a notion that the lights are still on but nobody is home. I miss the days where the Forums rocked with large numbers of posts, topics, and DIFFERENT posters every day. I do, of course, also miss posts and news with actual substance rather than the mini-advertisements which seem to have replaced content. As Roland would say, the world has moved on since then. There are very few posts by new people (well real new people rather than those who pop on briefly to tout something and vanish). That, in particular, bears noting because it seems to run hand in hand with a drop in new players which I see in several local META. If we can't even be bothered to get excited or talk about the game or new products online (where we have minimal effort) we certainly aren't showing up to play at the local gathering spots. That appears to bear out.

[T-ORK-amada]

I do believe you have posted in the wrong section. The Oubliette is further down the page as is Wargame Corporate Discussion. This is WFB general discussion, and clearly not Fantasy related in any way.

[Mr Mystery]

Other anecdotes? PP and X-Wing forums are pretty quiet, and that's despite my best efforts as chief gob****e in the X-Wing board!

[Houghten]

It seems to be happening to forums in general.

I blame Twitter.

[daboarder]

Depends, Most game companies have dedicated forums (take infinity/X-wing for example) these are getting as many posts as usual (Or more in the case of growing games). The independent forums grew out of 40k/fantasy most predominantly when GW closed down their own forums. 40k/fantasy is the bread and butter of the independent forums and therefore changes to the flow rate in these areas is more likely be indicative of changes in the communities attitude towards 40k/fantasy than other games. Particularly when those company forums are still operating with reasonable throughput.

[Caitsidhe]

Yes, I had intended to put this post in the Corporate area or the 40K general discussion. I must have been half asleep since it ended up in here.

[Wildeybeast]

Though it is pertinent to Warhammer in particular. Whilst BoLS warhammer boards have never exactly been hives activity, GW's new policy of 1 Warhammer release a quarter (or more) seems to have all but killed them off. It's hard to drum up interest when nothing new is happening.

[Metacarpi]

Though it is pertinent to Warhammer in particular. Whilst BoLS warhammer boards have never exactly been hives activity, GW's new policy of 1 Warhammer release a quarter (or more) seems to have all but killed them off. It's hard to drum up interest when nothing new is happening.

To be fair, Warhammer Fantasy has experienced more releases over the past year or so that it has at any other point in a great many years. Also, 40k has just had a new edition, so it's hardly surprising that the releases are a little 40k heavy at the moment.

I also think the WD shift to weekly might have something to do with how it feels. Seeing 40k releases EVERY WEEK makes the wait feel longer, than if those releases had only been seen 2 or 3 times in a monthly magazine.

[YorkNecromancer]

I've just not had all that much to say recently. The new Ork Codex has been largely underwhelming, in that it's basically been the same as the old one, only with a few tweaks to bring it into line with 7th. I haven't worked on my Orks for a while, so there's nothing for me to add.

Then there's been Space Wolves, an army I don't care for, either in terms of fluff or aesthetics. So again, no need to comment.

Basically, I think we've just hit a bit of a fallow period. It's kind of hard to get worked up for new stuff when it's essentially the same as the old, aside from one or two super-expensive big kits that'll never see the battlefield. Orks are still the same old horde army, Space Wolves are still wolfing the wolf as they wolf wolf with their wolf wolves and wolfing wolf wolves, so you know, there's not a whole lot going on.

The only thing I'm excited for is Forge World, because it feels like they're the only ones who are doing anything new. The irony that mostly what they're doing is a thousand variants on the Astartes is not lost on me. :)

[The_Gonk]

I brought this up last month (or the mont before), but it bears mention again. I have taken note in a trend, a pattern that Games Workshop should find alarming. Of course, per Kirby's recent letter, we now officially know that they proudly do no market research. One would presume that means they don't really keep an eye on places like BOLS, Warseer, DakkaDakka, 3++, and all the others. If they were keeping an eye on these "canaries in the coal mine" they would have taken note of the dramatic drops in activity. Last time I brought this up, several people chimed in that it was just summer. I accepted this and starting going back as far as I could to see what previous summers looked like as far as activity. I couldn't find any specialized stats or reports so I had to do it the hard way. What I found was that summer, in the halcyon days of past, did not seem to change activity or drop posts all that much.

The last two days here at BOLS in the Forum have been a Ghost Town. Let's tell the truth and shame the devil, it was a ghost town prior to that too. Most of the posts are made by a small group of people. When those aren't posting for one reason or another, "all is silent in the halls of the dead". There is a group of die hard types who will defend Games Workshop come what may. They always say the same thing, that internet commentary doesn't have anything to do with the larger gaming community. I always laugh when I hear that. For starters, we aren't that large a community (even worldwide) and most of us do use the internet. It seems a rather strange stance to take, but then I remind myself that they aren't really sorting something out logically. They already have their opinion and merely wish to discredit anything which supports the notion that they are wrong. Such is life.

Looking across the many, many Forums and sites where our community comes to chatter, I see the same thing over and over again. There is a sinister lull, a disinterest, a notion that the lights are still on but nobody is home. I miss the days where the Forums rocked with large numbers of posts, topics, and DIFFERENT posters every day. I do, of course, also miss posts and news with actual substance rather than the mini-advertisements which seem to have replaced content. As Roland would say, the world has moved on since then. There are very few posts by new people (well real new people rather than those who pop on briefly to tout something and vanish). That, in particular, bears noting because it seems to run hand in hand with a drop in new players which I see in several local META. If we can't even be bothered to get excited or talk about the game or new products online (where we have minimal effort) we certainly aren't showing up to play at the local gathering spots. That appears to bear out.

I've created a thread in the oubliette for ideas to increase activity by improving interaction on the forum. Be awesome if you could contribute.

[Mr Mystery]

You know, I'm not sure they are scaling back Warhammer all that much.

I mean in the current edition, we've had all but three armies re-released in the spangly Hardback format. All that's left? Beastmen, Bretonnians and Skaven.

I honestly cannot think of a previous edition where more stuff was released. And each of those releases has seen a fair amount of units released in plastic, and some new stuff for everyone. That to me isn't a sign of a dying game system.

Has it had as much attention as 40k? No it hasn't. But when was the last time we had an even split? I've been gaming for yonks, and I'd say not in the past ten years. And as for releases? Warhammer did better in terms of multipart plastics than 40k for a decent while, to the point where there aren't that many old models left in Warhammer. Most were done over in 6th and 7th Ed. Still remains work to be done sure, but the armies currently look nicely unified within their present range.

Main issue with Warhammer? Long term players tend to enjoy the larger pointed games, and 7th Edition positively encouraged that with the spangly Horde rule, and Steadfast. Both kicked the balls off MSU as a tactic. However, it has made the game appear daunting to get started with.

And it's just that. You don't need massive armies to get the most out of Warhammer. Most army Batallion sets give you a decent start with the addition of a single character, or perhaps two (one fighty, one casty). Indeed I would wager smaller games let you see the difference in troop qualities far more starkly than a big game.

For example? In 3,000 points my Ogres will happily take to the field with two Hordes. One of Bulls, the other Ironguts. There is precious little they can't steamroller in a single round of combat, particularly if I charge on account of Impact hits. Gobbos? Well, you just sort of get more of them. They tend to hit the limit of Horde and Steadfast quite quickly, so you just get more units.

But, kick that down to say, 1,000 points. Straight out go my Hordes. I could squeak one in, possibly even the Ironguts. But that's pretty much my army. Cop me in the flank, and I'm toast. So smaller units come into play. Gobbos? Can still happily play for Horde or Steadfast, showing the positives of cheap, rubbish troops.

Now there I have deliberately used two extreme sides of the Warhammer coin for illustrative purposes only. But hopefully you'll follow the gist of what I'm getting at :)

[Wildeybeast]

It has been well supported up to recently. The wood elf releases was a clearly a sign of the change. Three kits and a clamp pack hero, leaving 4 units still in metal. Compare that to what they did with dark elves. Then follow that up with nothing. They have define it'll scaled back both the amount of release windows Warhammer gets and the support each army is getting on those windows.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's worth remembering that one system or another does have these lulls: I remember the six months or so before 6th Edition 40k's release not being exactly overwhelming with 40k releases - was it just the Nids and Space Wolves splash? - while Fantasy was roaring with book after book. I think Fantasy, as a game, needs a kick up the arse, and obviously GW wants a big 40k push at the moment to get their numbers up. It'll be back around.

I've been paying attention to the ETC coverage this week; Fantasy's still going strong in the quarters that love it.

[Mr Mystery]

It has been well supported up to recently. The wood elf releases was a clearly a sign of the change. Three kits and a clamp pack hero, leaving 4 units still in metal. Compare that to what they did with dark elves. Then follow that up with nothing. They have define it'll scaled back both the amount of release windows Warhammer gets and the support each army is getting on those windows.

Yet you're comparing Dark Elves, one of the most popular armies, with Wood Elves, which although loved by their players, have a smaller player base.

Plus, the main units barring War Dancers are now in plastic, which has made it cheaper to field Wood Elves in cash terms, and opened up variety.

[Deadlift]

Yet you're comparing Dark Elves, one of the most popular armies, with Wood Elves, which although loved by their players, have a smaller player base.

Plus, the main units barring War Dancers are now in plastic, which has made it cheaper to field Wood Elves in cash terms, and opened up variety.

You could argue that the Wood elves player base is smaller due to lack of models etc etc. If the woodies had as strong a model line up as their Darker kin then you could argue the player base could / would increase.

[Mr Mystery]

You could argue that the Wood elves player base is smaller due to lack of models etc etc. If the woodies had as strong a model line up as their Darker kin then you could argue the player base could / would increase.

From what I've seen, it was a mix of that, and the army itself being tricky to use.

Recent release addressed both those issues overall. Stick Pixies are now a good bit more user friendly, and just as horribly deadly in the hands of an experienced player.