Who or what are the man at arms that the Imperial Knights take to war with them?

[Xaric]

I have now 3 Imperial Knights and I was wondering who are these Man at arms in the fluff I was thinking of using Codex: Militarum Tempestus because the art style of there models seem to fit nicely with the Imperial knights but not sure if this would brake the fluff.

[John Bower]

I have now 3 Imperial Knights and I was wondering who are these Man at arms in the fluff I was thinking of using Codex: Militarum Tempestus because the art style of there models seem to fit nicely with the Imperial knights but not sure if this would brake the fluff.

I very much doubt they are as well trained even as the Imperial Guard. Most likely just local militia. Most likely best bet is guard though for representing them.

[Xaric]

damn because i really like the militarum tempestus models they really do look great thanks anyway wait not trained as well as the astra militarum? you sure you havent got it mixed up the militarum are what it looks like the SAS of warhammer 40k...

[Wolfshade]

So why not use them?

[bfmusashi]

What all do we know about the Men At Arms? I don't have the Knight codex, but chapter thralls have similar stats to guardsmen in the Fantasy Flight books if memory serves. So, if we accept that as the baseline for support personnel to large scale military operations in the Imperium AND you really want to keep the rules in-line with what you think is right, I recommend Codex: Inquisition and have the Tempestus dudes be warrior henchmen. Same stats as guardsmen, can take upgrades to look like storm troopers.

[Xaric]

lol sceaw that do you know how much warrior henchmen cost :P and anyway i did some more research apparently there men of arms are just soilders more trained then the cannon fodder but as i am doing a merc army with my IK i will just use the militarum tempestus because from what the codex acts like it was intended to be used as a ally army with the data sheets.

[bfmusashi]

I think it's 13pts for an acolyte with carapace and hotshot gun. I haven't seen the new AM codex or the Tempestus one, so I don't know how many points the current storm trooper is.

[George Labour]

IN the various iterations of the fluff written through the ages the Knight households are generally not depicted as fielding any armed force beyond the nobles and their suits. Why this is is probably due to their position as a sub faction of the mechanicum that were basically escorts for Titans when they first came about. However from a fluff perspective it's easy to draw historical parallells with medieval nobility (european knights and Japanese Samurai in particular) that also far preferred to not let the 'lesser' peoples form standing armies.

That being said there's enough information presented to at least suggest the existence of trained security forces, bodyguards, and even militia thrown together as a last resort. The Sanctus reach book specifically mentions the pentitentiaries being emptied of convicts in order to provide more cannon fodder to fight the orcs. However most other fiction shows the Knights acting as the singular force of arms for their respective faction with the Imperial guard or another faction providing infantry and or heavier support.

So really if you want to use scions to back up your knights then you are certainly free to do so. If you do not wish to say they're from the Militarum Tempestus then you can say that their Knightly lord is also a Rogue Trader and either 'leased' them from sgementum command, or simply bought the toys from his mechanicum contacts and outfitted his own dynasty's minions with them.

Or just go with the standard of 'they're both here, and they fight together' that's perfectly acceptable and entirely canon.

[Xaric]

George i must say your info is spotless :) i will make them as there own dynasty thank you for the outstanding infomation it is what i was looking for.

[George Labour]

To quote the one who once sought the armoire of invulnerability.

I'm a helper!

[euansmith]

If you apply the historical archetype to the Men at Arms; they could be as professional as you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-at-arms

[George Labour]

Could be, and likely would be. However the information presented throughout the game's long history doesn't show the knight world's as deploying front line formations beyond their suits. Everything is either a form of peasant militia drawn together out of desperation or an allied force providing them with auxiliaries. Any highly trained and well equipped conventional units seem to be small bodyguard or security units which generally do not have the manpower to serve as battlefield fodder. Especially when said fodder might steal the glory away from the nobles and their suits.

However a Rogue Trader pretty much breaks all the rules of the Imperium and can get away with all manner of craziness by sheer dint of owning a charter, and being so rich that he can buy and sell planets the way we buy new 40k miniatures. As such a Knight noble elevated to such a status might have a pressing desire to form a more battlefield worthy unit even if it was only to serve as a boarding party during combat in the void. He'd also be able to call on resources not normally available to his planet bound relatives.

It also covers the explanation of how the knight and his super troopers get around without resorting to Imperial or Mechanicus transport assets.

[John Bower]

If you apply the historical archetype to the Men at Arms; they could be as professional as you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-at-arms

Nice find. :)

[bfmusashi]

And if the dual enrollment of being a noble and having a charter bothers you the Knight and the storm troopers could just be honor bound to the same lord or simply be allies of the Rogue Trader. Layers upon layers of deals with that lot.

[George Labour]

A rogue trader threw money at it is pretty much the 40k equivalent of 'A wizard did it' trope common to fantasy settings.

[bfmusashi]

Rogue Traders have assets far more valuable than mere physical goods. They can get things done. For instance, the Knight could be on a quest to discover the fate of long lost relatives that participated in an ancient crusade into lost space. The space, now beyond the Imperium's borders, requires a Rogue Trader to access. The RT, being a guy that weird things happen to a lot, would like to have a three story death machine to help with some of that oddness. They could also be relatives through marriage, old family pacts, perhaps there was even an adventure where the Knight acted as the Rogue Trader's second in a matter of honor while he was away. There are so many fun and fluffy ways for this to go.