Chaos Dreadnoughts?

[Lykum]

Still pretty new to 40k, but I was wondering if there is any justifiable reason to put a Dreadnought in a Chaos army. The two main disadvantages I see to the Chaos dreadnoughts over the regular SMs, is the crazed rule and a lack of an ability to drop pod them in. This makes them a little bit of a liability without a good way to get them out into action. I don't know if they have any advantage over the SM Dreads because I don't have that codex... lower point cost? better weapons? more close combat attacks?

What tactics have you seen people employ using Chaos Dreadnoughts with some success? I would think they'd be pretty good for semi-stationary firepower that can also be good close up. Probably pretty good for choke points, since I see their mobility being somewhat limited.

[Col.Straken]

Athough they can't take drop pods and the crazed rule can be bad they are worth the points in some cases.

I find it best to kit them out with two close combat arms, then run it infront of your Rhinos, if a game lasts 6 turns you (in theory) have one turn it turns around and shoots your rhino, oh bumma, it can't hurt it with str 4. People will target it as it is in the open leaving your better and more expensive units alone (a little), it gets more attacks than a SM dread, and can take two Close combat arms. Its also cheaper at about 120 fully tooled up the way I use it, the Defiler is a better choice, but when it works the dread can be devistating.

All in all, they arn't worth it over other choices, but they are still a viable choice if thats what you want.

[MacRedsun]

personally i find that running the dread with a missile launcher and dccw is the best load out. with this i generally run them eithor close and in pairs, or in front of another tank it still allows them to engage most tanks at range while minimizing what it does to your own units (the ability to fire frags at your own tanks front armor is better than nothing). just my opinion though mate, hope it helps

[Lykum]

All in all, they arn't worth it over other choices, but they are still a viable choice if thats what you want.

Since I am starting to build my army, I have to be kinda choosy about what I put my time, effort, and money into at this point. The FW Dreads are really cool, and I would consider making one just from a modeling standpoint, but I don't know if I would use it in a game. Especially, since I still have two squads, some bikers, and a land raider to finish painting.

I like the idea of running it in front of my rhinos, but then that limits them to 6" a turn. Overall, it looks like the close combat Dread may be the way to go. Its a shame, cause I think it is the only Chaos unit that can carry a multi-melta.

[Mizzrym]

well it is, but youd never want to put a MM oon it (at least im not brave enough to) i run mine with 2 dccw and one upgraded with a heavyy flamer, ats 105 pts and even if it doesnt manage a kill the whole game it soaks up some of those lascannons/krak missiles that would otherwise be headed at me defilers oor obliterators, even if its just for a turn or 2. Plus i play death guard, so its all about the walkers.

[Fellend]

In pure tactical use the defiler is better in almost every way a dread is however elite and lets you fill up your heavy support slots with obliterators or predators (come on lets, face it, obs are to good) and it's always scary for marine players or tanks when a big angry dread is rushing towards them even though there's probably alot scarier things on the board.

[Archon]

The Forge World - Dreads are fine models. Give it a chance. I´ve only got the sonic dread and i use it now as a plasmacannon. Firefrenzy for me is relativly rar. My Havocs survived a sudden firefrenzy-result, cause the were in cover an you can place the templet. Cover only one model per shoot for example.

[DarkLink]

well it is, but youd never want to put a MM oon it (at least im not brave enough to) i run mine with 2 dccw and one upgraded with a heavyy flamer, ats 105 pts and even if it doesnt manage a kill the whole game it soaks up some of those lascannons/krak missiles that would otherwise be headed at me defilers oor obliterators, even if its just for a turn or 2. Plus i play death guard, so its all about the walkers.

I've thought about an army with three Dreads with 2 DCCW's, all deployed next to each other and allowed to run forward. Probably very distracting for the enemy, and if they go crazy and try and shoot something, not really a big deal. Never done it, though.

[McMurdoc]

My usual opponent uses his dread' to good effect. I play Orks, and so I usually try to get in assault range as soon as possible(turn 2/3). So if he gets his frenzy, there is a big chance some of my greenskins are already really close. Result : he almost likes it when his dreadnought goes nuts. I on the other hand...:mad:

But I can imagine that it wouldn't work this way against Tau :p

[MUMBLES]

As a proud user of multi-melta and 2xCCW chaos dreads, I say go for it. You have to tend to treat them with kid gloves and make sure they aren't looking at anyone, but having multi-meltas on the field is invaluable.

As much as I generally dislike the tone on ******'s site, I have to credit him with finding the way to use chaos dreads. Because the line of sight is now measured from the weapon mounts on the dread, and the chaos book says "fires at nearest in line of sight" you can get away with it. Probably not intended since the book was written in 4th ed, but honestly, they're virtually unusable otherwise.

[Lykum]

As a proud user of multi-melta and 2xCCW chaos dreads, I say go for it. You have to tend to treat them with kid gloves and make sure they aren't looking at anyone, but having multi-meltas on the field is invaluable.


I would say that most Chaos players enjoy the random aspect of bonuses and penalties. If I'm willing to suffer a wound from my demon weapon, I guess I'm willing to allow an insane, rampaging dreadnought with a multi-melta. From a tactical standpoint it doesn't make a ton of sense, but it is damn fun.

[DarkLink]

As a proud user of multi-melta and 2xCCW chaos dreads, I say go for it. You have to tend to treat them with kid gloves and make sure they aren't looking at anyone, but having multi-meltas on the field is invaluable.

As much as I generally dislike the tone on ******'s site, I have to credit him with finding the way to use chaos dreads. Because the line of sight is now measured from the weapon mounts on the dread, and the chaos book says "fires at nearest in line of sight" you can get away with it. Probably not intended since the book was written in 4th ed, but honestly, they're virtually unusable otherwise.

Are you talking about Dreads only targeting a unit that is already in their fire arc, instead of the closest unit? Because you're doing it wrong. This came up on BoLS a long time ago (Goatboy, I think, suggested what you're talking about, and then came back and explained that he was wrong).

When Dreads go crazy and shoot, it's at the nearest unit, not the nearest unit that is already in the weapon's LOS. You rotate to target the nearest unit.

[Archon]

You can try to run one or more spawns alongside your dread (or the dread alongside the spawns) - the can take the fire in case of emergency ... but they are not chap.

[MUMBLES]

Much as I like BoLS, it isn't the de facto ruling when someone says something. I'm pretty sure it works as I said because of the interaction (namely) with the rules in the chaos book and the way that guns on vehicles "see." As I said before, it certainly wasn't intended this way since the chaos codex was written in 4th, but due to the rules now it does work that way. Just to cite my reasons:

1: pp40 Chaos Codex, sidebar - "...it must pivot on the spot towards the closest visible unit (friend or foe!) and fire all of its weapons..."
Italics added for emphasis, thats the important bit. Vehicles "see" with their weapons, so only something in one of the arcs of the weapons can be seen, thus no pivoting to fire at something they can't see.

2: pp72 BRB - "When firing a walker's weapons, pivot the walker on the spot so that its guns are aimed at the target (assume...45 degrees, hull-mounted...) and then measure range from the weapon itself and LOS from the mounting point...and along its barrel, as normal for vehicles."
This is a clear case of RAI vs RAW since the codex always trumps the BRB. Granted, I think it's intended for the Dread to swivel around to shoot but because of the first point they can't--the codex tells you exactly what to do when Fire Frenzy happens.

3: pp58 BRB - "When firing a vehicle's weapons, point them against the target and then trace the line of sight from each weapons' mounting and along the barrel, to see if the shot is blocked..."
Again, if the main rules trumped the codex this would invalidate the whole argument, but it doesn't. I put this here to show how vehicles "see." Other than LOS for the guns there is nothing said about what vehicles see or don't see, so it must be the individual weapons see things as their own entities.

Of course, that's how I see it. Like I had said before, I don't think it was intended, but instead one of those windfall bonuses that happen with older codexes sometimes with new rules editions.

[DarkLink]

As I said Goatboy brough this up. He emailed GW about this when some people disagreed. GW said he was wrong. GW, not BoLS. You can probably dig around in the articles and find it somewhere if you want, I'm too lazy to find a link. However, on my local gaming forum we had a thread on this issue: http://slogaming.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=220&hilit=dreadnought. The GW answer is on pg 4 of the thread.

That's right, they actually answered a rules question without taking 6 months to produce a FAQ :rolleyes:

Basically, GW said that, while a Dreadnought can only fire within it's weapons fire arc, it (and all other models in 40k) have a 360 degree LOS. Thus the Dreadnought can see in any direction, and thus must rotate and shoot.

[MUMBLES]

Impressive. So at least it was answered. It's hard to back down from a point that I felt was correct, as it took me a while to convince myself that it worked that way in the first place. Oh well, MM dreads may get put back on the shelf of shame again.

[Nabterayl]

The key is realizing that the dreadnought itself has a line of sight, in addition to its weapons. If it didn't, the walker pivoting rules would make no sense. If a walker could only see what its weapons can see, then it would never pivot, in either 4th or 5th edition, because the walker would always already be pointed at the closest "visible" target.

[Caldera02]

You know what the best part about the chaos dread is? How much freaking awesome fun it is. I have more funny memorable moments with my dread than bad ones. I once had my MM and Heavy flamer dread fire frenzy twice in a row, go crazy the third roll and then fire frenzy again. hilarity insued. Granted my opponent didn't like the result but I thought it was great.

The thing about the dread is that you have to flexible and learn how to use it. i just deploy his butt on one side and rush him up. Minimizing the damage he can do to me while still being a threat. The fire frenzy is great when you get to double flame and double shoot the MM at a unit that isn't your own! lol