Hmmm..a way to make Eldar Banshees semi-useful?

[Lost Vyper]

Hello!

I was never going to touch the Daemonic -psychic stuff...

BUT, the idea-light got lit...

Farseer joining a group of Banshees with every roll going for goodie daemonology...trying to get Hammerhand & Sanctuary...

S5 A4 Invl. 6+ group of screaming ladies...these might actually do something!

Maybe add an Autarch for grenades and you are set!

Actually, the Clowns would benefit even more (if the hammer. & sanc. was thrown)...

hmmm...

What do you think?

a) Bad idea either way
b) Banshees, darn it, they are actually doing something now!
c) Send in the Clownmobile!

- Lost Vyper

[Path Walker]

Would it not be risky trying to cast those spells? With the added risk of perils?

[DarkLink]

Nope, still terrible.

[Charon]

The issue is not that they are not going to "do something".
The issue is "you wont get them there to do something".
T3, no grenades, no move through cover
You can offset this a little bit by getting them in DE Raiders.

If you want to go that route, I would recommend a spiritseer (shrouded and 2 other buffs) and Karandras (Nades, Stealth, Move through cover) in a Banshee squad.

[Caitsidhe]

A 6+ isn't worth the risk of Perils. A 6+ is nothing. So far I have been willing to risk Santic with my CSM but only using a Mark of Nurgle Sorcerer on a Palanquin so he would have (4) Wounds. Even this isn't the greatest idea. It works and if you are desperate to try and get some Void Grenades or know you are going to be fighting Daemons, why not? When you have the cards at more Tournaments you declare what you are generating your Psychic Powers on at that time. Thus, If I am fighting Chaos Daemons (and I have the aforementioned Sorcerer) I'm willing to go that route. Most of the time, hell no.

[40kGamer]

A 6+ isn't worth the risk of Perils. A 6+ is nothing.

As for the perils, the last tournament I attended the TO ruled that the ghost helm allows the farseer to ignore perils by discarding a WC dice. (The way I read the rules is that it allows you to ignore the wound but not the perils but I digress.) 6++ is definitely nothing special. Hammerhand would be great for them but without something like invisibility to make them survivable they are not likely to ever reach a competent opponent... so no. :(

[Lost Vyper]

This was suggested to me...(cos i have DE too) Incubi with the same thing...S6 + Furious Charge & a delivering system...much better idea!

[Ravingbantha]

I see banshees as more of a support role. They're not so much the hitters, as they are useful for using those masks to drop the initiative of some fast hitters.

[DarkLink]

That's a lot of points to spend for very little benefit in a task that is better accomplished with a mantle autarch and honestly isn't even important to the Eldar in the first place.

[Lost Vyper]

Yep, true, but this topic started as a question, does it make Banshees better...and still no one wants to try them, so there´s our answer :)

[40kGamer]

Yep, true, but this topic started as a question, does it make Banshees better...and still no one wants to try them, so there´s our answer :)

Sadly enough I can never find a good reason to use Banshees outside of silly basement games. I'm also always trying to justify playing the harlequins too. For the high points investment they rarely deliver as they die like flies whenever anything can see them. So many bad units, so little time... :)

[TheDeathJester]

3 Close Quarters Units are essentially available to the general of Eldar, Banshees are fast but weak, Scorpions are slow but tough, harlequins are somewhat oddballs. Half and Half.

I see Banshees as underestimated spacemarine squishers, ap 3 hitting first because of reducing the enemies initiative , then on 3s and a 5+ to wound isn't bad, then also run faster than any Eldar on foot , especially with Jain Zar with her 1" additional run distance.

Let's be honest, if you roll up with Banshees people will think bad press of them, but drop them into a spacemarine squad and watch shock and awe as they tear through power armour.

[Charon]

Let's be honest, if you roll up with Banshees people will think bad press of them, but drop them into a spacemarine squad and watch shock and awe as they tear through power armour.

They tear through power armor but not through the marines Toughness. Also no Nades mean that the mask will make them strike simulaneous in most situations instead of striking first.
This is why Scorpions are way better in this edition. They have a higher S, get auto hits at I 10 and strike first in most cases. Not to mention their 3+ Armor, Stealth, Infiltrate (which makes them basically as fast as banshees on foot with the added bonus of an Infiltrated serpent if you want to) and ability to deal with vehicles.

[Dave Mcturk]

They tear through power armor but not through the marines Toughness. Also no Nades mean that the mask will make them strike simulaneous in most situations instead of striking first.
This is why Scorpions are way better in this edition. They have a higher S, get auto hits at I 10 and strike first in most cases. Not to mention their 3+ Armor, Stealth, Infiltrate (which makes them basically as fast as banshees on foot with the added bonus of an Infiltrated serpent if you want to) and ability to deal with vehicles.

sure this came up on another recent thread ... but basically as above ^^^ BUT:

i have had some limited success popping a DE Archon in there with phantasm grenades [which effect unit as well] at 120pts [+-=]
the archon is a lot cheaper than jaon zar or another 'lordy' - and if you can get a spirit seer in there and get really lucky - protect and empower are just as good as any other random powers.

we still play 6th - but i understand in 7th you could stick them in a raider and get an assault vehicle to boot!

[Charon]

If you have the ability to "pop an archon in there" do it the other way round.
Take a squad of Inccubi (higher S, AP2 and 3+) pop the Archon in there and add a Farseer or a Spiritseer in there for rerolls or unit buffs.

[daboarder]

isnt just sticking banshees in a raider/venom going to solve their biggest issues?

[Charon]

Not really... they still die to Overwatch (unlike scorpions) and still have no Granades (unlike scorpions). These disadvantages would be still ok when they where at least more "killy" than scorpions. But on average thats only 2 Marines more on the Banshees side with Scorpions having the advantage of surviving any retailation better than the banshees. The Banshee exarch just adds as much killing power as the scorpion exarch while the scorpion exarch also adds the ability to reliably harm vehicles.
Last but not least the scorpions could either infiltrate a Serpent or outflank a raider/venom.

I might be biased here as I always was more in favor of Scorpions even at the time when Banshees where clearly the better Aspect.

[daboarder]

man, overwatch and lack of grenades are considered crippling problems.....

well I'l put it this way, I'd kill for 4+sv and a open top transport on my stealers

[Anggul]

There isn't really any way of making them good because they're bad in themselves and there are other units that are straight-up better at what they do.

Yeah you could do all of these things to help them... but you could do the same things to other units for a much better outcome because all you're doing is polishing a turd, and spit-polishing it at that.

[Dave Mcturk]

If you have the ability to "pop an archon in there" do it the other way round.
Take a squad of Inccubi (higher S, AP2 and 3+) pop the Archon in there and add a Farseer or a Spiritseer in there for rerolls or unit buffs.

its a fair point . but the banshee exarch is arguably better, the banshees have pistols, and they are 6pts cheaper !

either way the units are a'sneak' counter attack style unit that can seriously threaten armour 3 units - the banshee initiative bonus possibly giving them the edge as they will always strike first whereas the incubi might not, in either case they must be charged into combat without taking too much direct fire [t3!]

[Charon]

I Dont consider the Banshee exarch "better" as she has only an added value in challenges.
The Klaivex on the other Hand can grant additional Attacks th his unit. Coupled with "Guide" this can prove quite potent.
Targets which would stike before Inccubi are rare and best avoided (if something has Ini 5+ it is probably a hard hitting melee unit themself), in the case of an overeager Character you still have your Archon to block him out.
6 points are a lot but considered the increased survivability (especially when combined with something like Fortune) through the 3+ save and FnP I think its worth the price.

[Dave Mcturk]

I Dont consider the Banshee exarch "better" as she has only an added value in challenges.
The Klaivex on the other Hand can grant additional Attacks th his unit. Coupled with "Guide" this can prove quite potent.
Targets which would stike before Inccubi are rare and best avoided (if something has Ini 5+ it is probably a hard hitting melee unit themself), in the case of an overeager Character you still have your Archon to block him out.
6 points are a lot but considered the increased survivability (especially when combined with something like Fortune) through the 3+ save and FnP I think its worth the price.

honestly i tend to agree - the problem is though you can never guarantee which buffs you are going to get and unless playing 'unbound' stylie the unit choices are limited - i usually play eldar with de allies so like to use the elite slot for extra trueborn with splinter venom. but if i was playing pure de then i might still be tempted to use banshees - xcept for the fact that i would miss the eldar dragons.

i will probably start playtesting incubi when we finally start using 7th at the weekend ! :)

[Charon]

You still can take a combined arms detatchment for more elite slots.
Also while Trueborn are powerful, there are more hilarious combinations as Eldar can now use the venom. Firedragons are a suitable substitute for blasterborn (and way better... 5 special weapons, 3+ and melterbombs for 10 points less) and Dark reapers in Venoms are just hilarious.

[Dave Mcturk]

You still can take a combined arms detatchment for more elite slots.
Also while Trueborn are powerful, there are more hilarious combinations as Eldar can now use the venom. Firedragons are a suitable substitute for blasterborn (and way better... 5 special weapons, 3+ and melterbombs for 10 points less) and Dark reapers in Venoms are just hilarious.

omg - yes not even looked at the options yet . and now wraithblades have an assault vehicle :rolleyes: