7th edition transport vs on the table.

[Ferngully]

Friend got 11 on warp table and I had only spiritseer on wave serpent and he is most positive he should be able to targer my spiritseer.

And I think he is off table because embark says, remove them from the table.

And he is basing this on that physic warps are generated By psykers on the table, including those in transports.

[Wolfshade]

I don't think you can target a unit embarked upon a vehicle.

[Harley]

You are correct, units which are embarked are effectively not on the board concerning being targeted or effected by any enemy abilities.

[tallguynsc]

Except flamers vs opened topped vehicles, aura abilities (Dark Angels PFG), and troops inside transports scoring objectives (debatable).

[Harley]

Except flamers vs opened topped vehicles

Are you saying a flamer can hit embarked models in an open topped vehicle? I do not believe this is true. If you mean embarked flamers shooting out, yes of course that works.

[Wolfshade]

No, he is right. D6 hits IIRC

[Mr.Pickelz]

Pg. 173, under "No Escape" Units in a open-topped transport take d6 hits, if the vehicle is touched by the template weapon. So, if you have a unit that has 3 Flamers, and all three hit any part of an Ork Trukk (Open-Topped) The flamers would roll 3 armor pen checks (1 per flamer), and 3 d6 (1d6 per flamer) against the unit embarked. This gives a good chance of killing the unit inside the transport before the transport it self is destroyed. Note that units embarked in a transport never take morale tests as they have "Fearless" conferred from the "Unshakable Nerve" rule on page 80.

[40kGamer]

Pg. 173, under "No Escape" Units in a open-topped transport take d6 hits, if the vehicle is touched by the template weapon. So, if you have a unit that has 3 Flamers, and all three hit any part of an Ork Trukk (Open-Topped) The flamers would roll 3 armor pen checks (1 per flamer), and 3 d6 (1d6 per flamer) against the unit embarked. This gives a good chance of killing the unit inside the transport before the transport it self is destroyed. Note that units embarked in a transport never take morale tests as they have "Fearless" conferred from the "Unshakable Nerve" rule on page 80.

Yes indeed. A big screw you to Dark Eldar players the world over. :mad:

[Charon]

Yep...
best thing is that the flamer gets more hits on the models through "no escape" then he would when placing the template regularly.
Also the most templates you deal with are either torrent or appear instantly next to you without any possibility of counterplay.

[Harley]

Well that's a new one to me, having never played with an open topped vehicle. When did that rule appear in the BRBs?

[40kGamer]

Well that's a new one to me, having never played with an open topped vehicle. When did that rule appear in the BRBs?

Fresh off the 7th edition press. :)

[Archon Charybdis]

On that note, not being overly familiar with orks, did Trukks get a nice price drop in the new book? It seems to me like open-topped transports in general are going to need a hefty price drop to account for the flaming death boxes they've become since 5th ed.

[Houghten]

Trukks did indeed get a 5pt price drop, at least off their basic price.

On the other hand, boarding planks went up by 10pts, and grot riggers went up by 5, so not all Trukks are going to be cheaper.

Also, Battlewagons are 20pts more expensive, though they can at least content themselves that killkannons are massively cheaper so that one balances out in the wagon's favour (unless you weren't taking killkannons, in which case you is a grot).

[Krefey]

Yep...
best thing is that the flamer gets more hits on the models through "no escape" then he would when placing the template regularly.
Also the most templates you deal with are either torrent or appear instantly next to you without any possibility of counterplay.

Not if the unit you'd be shooting at was bunched up like they would be ona transport on the table top. The only exception would be if the unit was 5 or fewer models. That's the only situation where you could possibly get more hits than you would otherwise of gotten had the unit not been embarked on a transport.

[Charon]

You are assuming the template would score a full hit, which is not the case.
In order to extend the range you just barely scratch the most outer wing of the transport.
Ruletext says nothing about covering the transport. It just needs to touch the transport to score d6 hits instead of the ONE it would score against anything else that way.

[Krefey]

And you're assuming all it is doing is barely touching the transport. A happy medium would be to assume it would be hitting 2-3 (maybe 4) models in a target unit or that it covers 1/4 to 1/2 of an open topped transport (depending on the transport model in question obviously).

[Charon]

As the flamer is a very short ranged weapon, yes the assumption to barely scratch the vehicle is what happens in regular play.
To cover 1/4 or 1/2 of the transport in qestion the model with the flamer would have to stand about 1 or 2" away. Not gonna happen.

[Wolfshade]

You can tankshock units to herd them, it is possible (though not probable) to hit 25 with a template, though if your opponent does ever allow you to do this well i wouldn't worry too about tactics....

9963

[Charon]

The diagram is only legal for a torrent weapon as any infantry flamer needs to stay 1" away from enemies and most tnaks have them turret mounted :P

[Wolfshade]

lol quite true remove 3, or is it ther inferno cannon that fires 12"+template?

Anyway, since this will probably never occur in game let's ingonre and carry on...

[Path Walker]

Trukks did indeed get a 5pt price drop, at least off their basic price.

On the other hand, boarding planks went up by 10pts, and grot riggers went up by 5, so not all Trukks are going to be cheaper.

Also, Battlewagons are 20pts more expensive, though they can at least content themselves that killkannons are massively cheaper so that one balances out in the wagon's favour (unless you weren't taking killkannons, in which case you is a grot).


Boarding Planks and Grot Riggers actually got useful though, so the price increase is justified!

[Archon Charybdis]

It seems like a more balanced rule might've been d3 hits, or d6 hits only when the vehicle is the target of the shooting attack and not just getting incidentally nicked.

[Charon]

Aye. Like the Wall of fire rule...
Also it is unlear if it interacts with the flickerfield at all or completely bypasses it.

[John Bower]

Aye. Like the Wall of fire rule...
Also it is unlear if it interacts with the flickerfield at all or completely bypasses it.

Isn't a flickerfield an invuln? Surely to my mind any unit embarked should get the save from it if so.

[Caitsidhe]

Isn't a flickerfield an invuln? Surely to my mind any unit embarked should get the save from it if so.

Unless the rule specifically states it applies to passengers, it does not.

[40kGamer]

Isn't a flickerfield an invuln? Surely to my mind any unit embarked should get the save from it if so.

Not at the moment but maybe when the Dark Eldar codex is reworked. Until something changes Dark Eldar are totally screwed against deepstriking units with templates...

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh yeah, definitely taking a Burning Brand Lord on a Bike next time I fight Orks or Dark Eldar! Not to mention bikers with flamers.

[Caitsidhe]

Oh yeah, definitely taking a Burning Brand Lord on a Bike next time I fight Orks or Dark Eldar! Not to mention bikers with flamers.

Doom Siren on Noise Marine Champion is good too.

[Charon]

Doom Siren on Noise Marine Champion is good too.

Nah. He is on foot so you wont get that close. Unavoidable Templates are a problem.. like Tac Marines + Droppod, Hellhounds, Baleflamer, Suicide Terminators...
Bikes are good too as they are fast enough. Walking up to them is not gonna be that scary.