Blood Angels Rumor Roundup

[ElectricPaladin]

well apparently we have "command squads" whatever those are, in elites. but we no longer have the honour guard (so who flipping knows if the command squad can get jump packs or a priest or not)

Huh. Interesting. I wonder what they'll end up being...

Actually, if the command squad still has a priest-in-training, that would be a pretty cool way to get the +1 WS and FNP buff onto another HQ's unit. It would even be pretty cool if the priest just gave the FNP and not the +1 WS...

Or, hey! What if the command squad has a priest-in-training, said character grants +1 WS and FNP, and the command squad includes a blood champion, like the old honor guard used to... With a librarian in the squad to cast Sanguinary buffs onto the blood champion, you don't need to worry about paying for a "serious" close combat HQ, like a captain. Depending on his stats, you could easily have a blood champion with Initiative 5 to 7 on the charge, WS 5 to 6, Strength 5, and 5 to 8 attacks. Not bad at all...

[daboarder]

Copy and paste junk from the marine codex I'll bet

[40kGamer]

well apparently we have "command squads" whatever those are, in elites. but we no longer have the honour guard (so who flipping knows if the command squad can get jump packs or a priest or not)

That's a weird slot for a command squad. Hopefully it will turn out to be the old honour guard.

[timff8]

I have serious doubts that a blood champion is going to turn the command squad into a power melee unit, and if he's not he's sort of a waste of points. One tooled-up guy in a 5-man squad with no combat abilities is hardly scary, and paying to kit them for melee is just silly. Biker command squads work because of increased durability and shooting power, with no need to buy a buffing character; no bikes and they're too fragile to be a non-supporting unit. Did anyone run an honor guard with power weapons?

@Path Walker
Glad I could help. We all learned something today. Care to sing a song of friendship?

[ElectricPaladin]

I have serious doubts that a blood champion is going to turn the command squad into a power melee unit, and if he's not he's sort of a waste of points. One tooled-up guy in a 5-man squad with no combat abilities is hardly scary, and paying to kit them for melee is just silly. Biker command squads work because of increased durability and shooting power, with no need to buy a buffing character; no bikes and they're too fragile to be a non-supporting unit. Did anyone run an honor guard with power weapons?

@Path Walker
Glad I could help. We all learned something today. Care to sing a song of friendship?

So, assuming that the blood champion exists and is unchanged, we are looking at a character with WS 5, S 4, and 2 attacks base. He gets a power weapon (probably a power sword), and a combat shield standard.

He's S 5 on the charge.

In the special formation, he's I 5 on the charge.

With a sanguinary priest in the squad, he's WS 6 on the charge.

If there's a librarian along for the ride, you can cast Quickening to give him I 6 to 8 and 3 to 5 attacks. Or, if the Rage-granting power is accurate and you get that off as well, 5 to 7 attacks.

All this is on a dude who can issue and accept challenges! And remember that his power weapon is AP 3.

Now, as far as the rest of the command squad, don't forget that you can easily field them with assault gear - the good old bolt pistol and chainsword. That means that you have a total of 12 attacks (16 if you get the Rage power) at WS 5, S 5, I 5. That's without further upgrades. If you're willing to spend a few extra points, you can easily mix in a couple of special pistols (definitely plasma, infernus, and hand flamer, potentially also grav?) or power weapons, as well as non-character thunder hammer/power fist/lightning claws.

I'm not saying that it's going to be game-breakingly awesome... but I do think that entire package isn't a half bad escort choice for an HQ. I'm not sure it's better than a terminator squad (for foot) or a sanguinary guard squad (for jump), but I'm not sure it's that much worse. It's certainly going to be cheaper, and if you're already investing in a couple of support characters - a sanguinary priest as your warlord, a librarian, maybe a chaplain as well - that cheapness may well prove very important. And remember that every one of those characters you are paying for is adding something else to the squad. Psychic support, buffed WS, Fearless, Shred... I could easily see all of this adding up to a poor man's deathstar.

[daboarder]

I'm really really hoping exterminatus fixes the JP thing, even if its just by giving us a detachment with no troops and extra FA

It does specify that the Dante is leading the assault, and even has Flesh tearer specific Traits and Relics. So MAYBE



18 datasheets detailing detachments and formations for the cryptian alliance, the forces lead by commander Dante.


Relics and warlord traits for the Archangels (the blood angels 1st company), the flesh tearers and the necron mephrit dynasty

also Note, the sisters are AGAIN in the story, you can see a picture of them next to a flesh tearer in what I presume is a description of the forces of the cryptian alliance.

Thats a shed load of exposure for the SoBs

11995

[White Tiger88]

I'm really really hoping exterminatus fixes the JP thing, even if its just by giving us a detachment with no troops and extra FA

It does specify that the Dante is leading the assault, and even has Flesh tearer specific Traits and Relics. So MAYBE




also Note, the sisters are AGAIN in the story, you can see a picture of them next to a flesh tearer in what I presume is a description of the forces of the cryptian alliance.

Thats a shed load of exposure for the SoBs

11995

I am hoping for a Sister Release just so my nids get some females in there diet!

[timff8]

@Electric Paladin
Well sure, any squad with FNP is going to be a good escort for a character, and if you can soak challenges so much the better. For my money though, rather than having one tooled-up guy hanging out with mediocre-at-best (BP and CCW scare no-one) melee guys, I'd take Sanguinary Guard. They get 2+ saves, JPs and power weapons at a very reasonable price and now that they occupy the same slot, yeah, take them instead. Also bear in mind that all these bonuses you're talking about are the result of 2 characters buffing him. At that rate, anyone would be formidable. If it takes two characters to buff him to decent status, you've got no HQ slots left to purchase a beatstick HQ for the unit, which is what I'd want with a challenge-soaking character.

P.S. If anyone is still reading this thread I want to apologize for being a whiny child a few pages back. It's unbecoming of an adult and it make me look like Stelek. I'm still going to play the army, I'm just disappointed.

[miteyheroes]

I think it is funny that people are getting upset over the changes but at the end of the day they are just going to have to get over it.

Oh sure, I'll get over it. By just not getting into Blood Angels. Glad I waited until the new Codex dropped before starting my planned Assault Marine or Death Company armies.

[Cutter]

@Path Walker
The detachment is garbage; Objective Secured is too good to give up and 1 additional Elite does not a specialist army make; 1 extra Elite is still weighed-down by mandatory Troops that are just Tacticals and/or Scouts.

"They're a Codex Chapter" - Please excuse my redundancy, but go read my comment again. YOU MUST JUSTIFY THE BOOK. IF IT'S JUST RED ULTRAMARINES, JUST PLAY ULTRAMARINES. YOUR FLUFFY JUSTIFICATION STANDS IN THE WAY OF A FUN, DIVERSE GAME. I AM YELLING BECAUSE YOUR IDEA OF FUN SHOULD NOT STAND IN THE WAY OF MY IDEA OF FUN; GO PLAY ULTRAMARINES.
The unique Elites and Death Company, as I said, do nothing. They're stuck in Elites which make them redundant; Sang. Guard are just tweaked Vanguard Vets now. Death Company with jump packs are just tweaked Vanguard Vets. When Vanguard were in a different slot to these units, they were not redundant.
Death Company without jump packs are either footslogging (so slow and useless) or in a Land Raider, in which case they're outclassed by thundernators.
Various Dreadnoughts stuck in Elites are still just Various Dreadnoughts; split them into Heavy and we have an actual list.

I'm sensing you're a bit of a 'Red Grail half empty' kinda guy...

[Azrael71]

Look I am annoyed at the DC's are only elites but I will still use my blood Angels with my dark Angels. I am wondering if like Belial from DA has the rules if he is the commander terminators become troops I wonder if that would apply to Asterath if he leads the DC become troop choices. I might be wrong here but I think that's how it should work. I have no problems fielding tactical squads just make strategy more interesting. I will hold off anymore until I get the Dex on Saturday in Australia.

[Path Walker]

Look I am annoyed at the DC's are only elites but I will still use my blood Angels with my dark Angels. I am wondering if like Belial from DA has the rules if he is the commander terminators become troops I wonder if that would apply to Asterath if he leads the DC become troop choices. I might be wrong here but I think that's how it should work. I have no problems fielding tactical squads just make strategy more interesting. I will hold off anymore until I get the Dex on Saturday in Australia.

Nope, they don't do stuff like that anymore, they use Formations and Detachments to build on those ideas, so you're likely to see either a formation of Death Company and Astaroth or a Detachment that allows Death Company to be taken as troops.

[sebi81]

Wow... they finally got it.

I managed to change my Imperial Guard with penal legionaires as troops and Psykers as HQ to fit in the Astra Militarum codex, I ripped the Hellboard from my Baron model to make him a Archon and got some new troops to fill the ranks now that hellions can´t do this, I even came around the loss of the space wolves mixed armour Wolfguard.

But now they finally got it... I could perfectly fill two detachments of Blood Angels with 3 HQ, 4 elite, 6 troops and two fast attack units. Now it seems as if I don´t have any troops anymore. The 3 Sanguinary priests either fill their own HQ slots or are invalid cause of termi armour, my four jump squads are fast attack and the death comp. and their dread move to elites. Pff... Hard to swallow and seems to be the first army I can not get to work without unbound

[Path Walker]

Wow... they finally got it.

I managed to change my Imperial Guard with penal legionaires as troops and Psykers as HQ to fit in the Astra Militarum codex, I ripped the Hellboard from my Baron model to make him a Archon and got some new troops to fill the ranks now that hellions can´t do this, I even came around the loss of the space wolves mixed armour Wolfguard.

But now they finally got it... I could perfectly fill two detachments of Blood Angels with 3 HQ, 4 elite, 6 troops and two fast attack units. Now it seems as if I don´t have any troops anymore. The 3 Sanguinary priests either fill their own HQ slots or are invalid cause of termi armour, my four jump squads are fast attack and the death comp. and their dread move to elites. Pff... Hard to swallow and seems to be the first army I can not get to work without unbound

then use Unbound

[ElectricPaladin]

What annoys me about this new codex freakout is that everyone seems fixated on this one quality of the 5th Edition codex, as though it were the end-all be-all of what it means to be Blood Angels. Who the hell ever told you that? I've read the 5th Edition codex, and nowhere does it say that the only reason to play Blood Angels is assault marines as troops. Oh, sure, it certainly mentions that you might do that, and it obviously contains the rules for doing so, but... come on, people. Of all the things that make Blood Angels unique, assault marine troops is just one of them. And you are posting like the Blood Angels are over. What about sanguinary guard? What about close range firefights and assault? What about librarian dreads? Death company?

But oh no, I can't use assault marines instead of tacs. The world is over.

Old night, assault marines weren't even that good. They did not, in general, actually win assaults! But with the changes I have seen, tac squads are going to be scary with the right support. Assault squads might be fast attack now, but when you use them, they will win.

It's just... I'm looking at these rumors and thinking "it wouldn't cost all that much to have a priest, a librarian, a chaplain, and a captain, all with jump packs. With all that support, including psychic buffs, the captain is going to be WS 7, S 5 on the charge, I 7 to 9, with 5 to 7 attacks... that's right, my generic captain with a power sword just punked your phoenix lord. And while that might use up all your HQ slots, it's expensive but not prohibitively so (60 + 60 + 65 + 15 = 200 points for three characters). Give 'em (reduced cost) jump packs and put 'em with an assault squad for 10+ Hammer of Wrath attacks.

I feel like we're going from a codex that centered around a crappy unit to a codex that puts that crappy unit back in its original place (off to one side, not out of the book entirely) and instead gives us the tools to make that unit and others awesome... and people are complaining that the crap is not front and center.

The damn Internet...

[Warpath]

I am so incredibly pissed at this... sort of BA codex... the DC nerf... no troop assault squad... Mephiston not being Mephiston (this is actually one of the things that hurts me the most, since he is my favourite character). Baal predator makes sense going to HS. Corbulo has never been a killy character. This dex is so... not BA at all. It is Ultramarines in red armour with a couple of BA names.

On the plus side... Dante needed a boost. And it seems that the entire army payed for it.

[Path Walker]

I am so incredibly pissed at this... sort of BA codex... the DC nerf... no troop assault squad... Mephiston not being Mephiston (this is actually one of the things that hurts me the most, since he is my favourite character). Baal predator makes sense going to HS. Corbulo has never been a killy character. This dex is so... not BA at all. It is Ultramarines in red armour with a couple of BA names.

On the plus side... Dante needed a boost. And it seems that the entire army payed for it.

How is Mephiston not Mephiston? Because he and dreadnaughts can't magically sprout wings? Which he was able to do for all of one codex? Assualt squads were never that good anyway and shouldn't be troops in an army that obeys the codex astartes. Anyone can claim objectives now, troops aren't the huge deal they used to be.

DC haven't been nerfed, they've moved slot and you get extra Elites in the Detachment anyway, the detachment that gives them all +1 I which is a pretty big advantage for I 4 close combat troops.

[ElectricPaladin]

I am so incredibly pissed at this... sort of BA codex... the DC nerf... no troop assault squad... Mephiston not being Mephiston (this is actually one of the things that hurts me the most, since he is my favourite character). Baal predator makes sense going to HS. Corbulo has never been a killy character. This dex is so... not BA at all. It is Ultramarines in red armour with a couple of BA names.

On the plus side... Dante needed a boost. And it seems that the entire army payed for it.

Yep. Not BA at all. A couple of characters got their stats shuffled, a few things got moved to different categories, we gained an HQ, lost an HQ and an Elites choice. Totally not BA at all anymore. Close combat specialists with WS 5 and FNP, army-wide Furious Charge, army-wide +1 I on the charge, death company and sanguinary guard and furioso and death company dreadnoughts still being in the codex, not to mention double-flamer tac squads... that's boring and dumb. Everyone has those things. Totally just red Ultramarines now.

Ugh.

If I wasn't so eager to stay on top of the rumors, I'd take a break from the forums. I'm not saying you have to like the changes. You're entitled to your opinion. But insisting that the army is no longer distinct requires such a narrowness of vision and failure of imagination... ugh. Forget it.

[Warpath]

Army wide +1I on the charge is only when using the force organization chart, that leaves about 30 jump troops in their respective bag (in my case). Close combat specialists with +1WS and FNP, only 1 unit and with a sanguinary priest, who takes up an HQ slot. Even if you could take more than 1 priest per slot, it is still 1 less HQ slot.

And Mephiston was not Mephiston due to Wings of Sanguinius. Yes, it helped him get there. But that's not my point. He has never been a 3 wounds character. Having AP 3 really hurts him too. Not to mention that most of the BA powers are **** (i do like the primaris power tho). If they wanted to balance him, they shoul'd have incresed his point cost, to about 275 or even 300.

[Path Walker]

Army wide +1I on the charge is only when using the force organization chart, that leaves about 30 jump troops in their respective bag (in my case). Close combat specialists with +1WS and FNP, only 1 unit and with a sanguinary priest, who takes up an HQ slot. Even if you could take more than 1 priest per slot, it is still 1 less HQ slot.

And Mephiston was not Mephiston due to Wings of Sanguinius. Yes, it helped him get there. But that's not my point. He has never been a 3 wounds character. Having AP 3 really hurts him too. Not to mention that most of the BA powers are **** (i do like the primaris power tho). If they wanted to balance him, they shoul'd have incresed his point cost, to about 275 or even 300.

and the Moon on Stick, what slot should that go in?

[ElectricPaladin]

Army wide +1I on the charge is only when using the force organization chart, that leaves about 30 jump troops in their respective bag (in my case). Close combat specialists with +1WS and FNP, only 1 unit and with a sanguinary priest, who takes up an HQ slot. Even if you could take more than 1 priest per slot, it is still 1 less HQ slot.

And Mephiston was not Mephiston due to Wings of Sanguinius. Yes, it helped him get there. But that's not my point. He has never been a 3 wounds character. Having AP 3 really hurts him too. Not to mention that most of the BA powers are **** (i do like the primaris power tho). If they wanted to balance him, they shoul'd have incresed his point cost, to about 275 or even 300.

So you don't like it. Fine. But how does that mean that they aren't Blood Angels anymore? I'm not saying you need to love the new codex. You can dislike it. You can miss stuff that you liked that isn't there anymore. Whatever. The position I find unsupportable is that the new codex is insufficiently distinct. That is what I find ridiculous.

[Meph]

For me, the main changes to my current army are manageable;
-The loss of Assault and DC from troops means I'll have to paint up another tactical squad, which might not too bad considering the bitz-filled box coming along.
-This also gives me an excuse to paint up the scouts I've got lying around since ages. Just have to come up with a loadout, or buy some snipers. :)
-Not having a Storm Talon is kinda sad, I have one lying around waiting to be converted into something that looks like it might actually fly.
-Not having Centurions is a plus for me. Saves me from coming up with a way to convert them into something better-looking. They never felt right to me in the fluff. Tactical Dreadnought Armour seems to be the way to go if you need ultra-heavy infantry, their desirable weapon loadouts are better transferred to Terminator Squads. That would seem like a better way to introduce some new variants that don't stray too far from the space marine design philosophy.
-The rumour of DC getting cheaper jump packs is a plus. Gives me an excuse to paint up the ones I magnetized for my DC but never fielded because of the ridiculous points cost (550 pts for a 10-man squad).

Things that don't really affect my particular army:
-The shifting around of priests.
-The loss of fast normal predators and vindicators. Doesn't make sense from a fluff point-of-view, but might make sense from a balancing point of view. Although on the other hand, the BA do lack the storm talon and dedicated AA Rhino variants, so an all-fast rhino variant motor pool could be a nice compensation from being banned of a certain portion of the Astartes arsenal.
-The rest of the changes. :)

[Jared van Kell]

So you don't like it. Fine. But how does that mean that they aren't Blood Angels anymore? I'm not saying you need to love the new codex. You can dislike it. You can miss stuff that you liked that isn't there anymore. Whatever. The position I find unsupportable is that the new codex is insufficiently distinct. That is what I find ridiculous.

I agree, the codex still has plenty to render it distinct. If Death Company, Death Company Dreadnoughts, Furioso Dreadnoughts, Librarian Dreadnoughts, Sanguinary Guard, Baal Predators, Sanguinary Priests, faster transports than anyone else, a detachment that grants the furious charge of old and their own very versatile psychic discipline is not enough to render Blood Angels unique then nothing will.

As you mentioned most folk are just upset that they have lost their scoring assault marines and are whining that they actually have to take Scout Squads and/or Tactical Squads in their army lists to win. What will actually be refreshing for me is to start seeing most of my Blood Angel opponents using tactics that does not just revolve around charging across the battlefield full pelt and getting into assault ASAP like it was some form of auto-win button.

JvK :cool:

[Defenestratus]

and are whining that they actually have to take Scout Squads and/or Tactical Squads in their army lists to win.

I'm not "whining" because I have to use tactical marines to win. I'm legitimately upset that I'll have to purchase a model that I *hate* in order to even play my army.

Let me re-iterate since this seems lost on people.

I got into BA because I HATE the tactical marine model. I'd rather swallow the business end of a mossberg 500 than paint a fecking tac marine. Unbound armies aren't accepted in my non-competitive gaming group. How am I supposed to be pleased with this codex?

[Jared van Kell]

I got into BA because I HATE the tactical marine model. I'd rather swallow the business end of a mossberg 500 than paint a fecking tac marine. Unbound armies aren't accepted in my non-competitive gaming group. How am I supposed to be pleased with this codex?

Fair enough, your reasons are your own and to be honest, your reason is probably the most genuine I have yet heard, however the majority of folk I have encountered are simply upset they cannot get away with just zerg-rushing the enemy.

Aside from swallowing your disgust and painting two tactical squads I guess the only other options you have are either scouts with sniper rifles and camo cloaks or sell your army and pick another. The choice is yours.

JvK :cool:

[ElectricPaladin]

More news breaking over on B&C:

• Grav pistols and guns have the same availability as anyone in the regular codex.
• Captain still lacks artificer armor, no FOC shifting.
• Frag cannons may have lost their template and assault marines may have been reduced to the exact same options as C:SM. Rumormonger is confirming as we speak...
• Rhinos, razorbacks, and Baals are Fast for free (that is, they are more expensive, but the price increase is built into their cost rather than being optional). Vindis, whirlwinds, and ordinary predators are not, but can buy it for 10 points.

More to come...

- - - Updated - - -

More coming now!!!

• Techmarines now have Independent Character.
• Command Squads are the same as in the Space Marine codex (which means they come with a free apothecary and a champion)
• Sanguinary sword/axe are still master-crafted (I apologize in advance to my opponents for having to roll my 10-man sanguinary guard squad's attacks one dude at a time).
• Captains do get artificer armor.
• Frag cannons have not lost Template, but now cost 5 points.
• Assault marines have not lost melta, assault sergeants can take grav pistols, rank-and-file can not.

[ElectricPaladin]

INCOMING!!!

• The baby sanguinary priest who comes with the command squad only grants FNP 5+. He is not a full priest and does not grant +1 WS.
• You can take two special weapons even in a 5-man assault squad.

- - - Updated - - -

BOOM!!

• Lemartes is now just +1 S and +1 A if wounded (not per wound).
• Sanguinary guard squads still characterless (you can hide that power fist...)

[daboarder]

Oh ****!


Oh ****!

OH ****!

Did we really just loose jump packs for our commad squad/honour Guard....oh ****. Nope nope nope done **** off GW get absolutely ****ed

[ElectricPaladin]

Oh ****!


Oh ****!

OH ****!

Did we really just loose jump packs for our commad squad/honour Guard....oh ****. Nope nope nope done **** off GW get absolutely ****ed

This is not yet indicated. I am querying...

[ElectricPaladin]

Yeah... command squad cannot take jump packs, bikes, or terminator armor. They can take dedicated transports, but not land raiders.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, dabs. I wish it could have been good news.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, that's a mistake. Command squad can take jump packs, but they're expensive.

[daboarder]

They always were pricey about it. Believe me its not a squad I run when im feeling points efficient.

Cheers EP.
Now I can just hope the shield of baal detachments leta us ignore the troops slot.

Ps: can you ask if scouts can take land speeder storms?

[ElectricPaladin]

They always were pricey about it. Believe me its not a squad I run when im feeling points efficient.

Cheers EP.
Now I can just hope the shield of baal detachments leta us ignore the troops slot.

Ps: can you ask if scouts can take land speeder storms?

I'll poke my head in, but I'm pretty sure the last spoiler said "no C:SM imports," and the new one hasn't contradicted that, yet...

[daboarder]

Yeah I know I just wasnt sure if the storm slid under the raider as it used to be a FA option for SM but was made a dedicated transport so if the scouts are copied from their it might not be noticed.

Im just hoping as the idea of two 5 man sniper squads in land speeders has always appealed to me and would solve the troop slot problem for me

[fedratsailor]

as I own 23k in blood angels, if the storm isn't in, sounds like either 5 man razorback or 10 man melta/H Flamer rhino troops for me. so far I don't feel the book is as bad as the tyranid book felt.

3 more days.

[ElectricPaladin]

No storms.

[daboarder]

No storms.

:( heres hoping exterminatus saves the day then

[Gleipnir]

I'm sure with the inclusion of Flesh Tearers we are gonna see some sort of Assault Marine formation

[fedratsailor]

EP, can sang priests take bikes/JP's, someone said they lost TDA.

[ElectricPaladin]

EP, can sang priests take bikes/JP's, someone said they lost TDA.

Yes bikes, yes jump packs, no TDA.

[Defenestratus]

Grimasnegras says (http://laslagrimasnegras.blogspot.com/2014/12/novedades-leaks-del-codex-as-y-nuevos.html)

12008120091201012011

My spanish is rather rusty but it appears that Mephiston took about the biggest nerf in the history of any character in 40k.

[ElectricPaladin]

My spanish is rather rusty but it appears that Mephiston took about the biggest nerf in the history of any character in 40k.

On the one hand, he can no longer face-tank your opponents' armies.

On the other hand, now he doesn't have to.

[Gleipnir]

Considering he has IC and all the ablative wounds that entails seems like a pretty fair tradeoff towards making a models rules more reasonable

[ElectricPaladin]

Considering he has IC and all the ablative wounds that entails seems like a pretty fair tradeoff towards making a models rules more reasonable

That's what I meant, yeah.

Look, it was fun to have baby's first monstrous creature in my army, but it was also awkward to use. I'm much happier to have a toned-down version that I can use in a wider variety of roles rather than a non-IC version who is only useful as a cruise missile.

[woodenronin]

I sure am glad I made a battle company last winter. I don't need to buy one single model for this codex update. I just have to lose the storm talon and stalker and hunter I was saving to put in. I guess I got spoiled on my 5th ed. codex.

- - - Updated - - -

I went grav crazy when the SM codex came out, so I have plenty of those and I saved a couple of heavy flamers from the sternguard boxes.

[addamsfamily36]

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo I hear that although rhinos, razorbacks and the baal predator all come with fast vehicle, You can buy "over charged engines" for any vehicle (Including land raiders). This upgrade grants fast vehicle. :)

Oh and Mephiston is still apparently a beast. Strength ten anyone?

[Power Klawz]

Man I don't know... I like tac marines and have always found them very effective and versatile. Having tac marines that can also beat face in melee for a reasonable ticket price? Man that sounds awesome.

Putting those dudes in fast, cheap rhinos also doesn't sound like a bad thing.

Also, yeah it seems like baseline Meph took a hit, but his access to self buffing psychic powers seem to have been kicked up a notch. I mean he gets strength 10 for 1 warp charge automagically... then he gets more powers and doesn't the new BA power tree come with a pretty sick self buff as the primaris?

[daboarder]

Getting some chatter that Tac, dev and assault squads do not have access to dedicated razorbacks

[ElectricPaladin]

Getting some chatter that Tac, dev and assault squads do not have access to dedicated razorbacks

No, that's definitely false. Doesn't make any sense.

[daboarder]

thats what I thought, but I haven't heard it contradicted yet, so it was new worthy

[ElectricPaladin]

thats what I thought, but I haven't heard it contradicted yet, so it was new worthy

What's the source of that rumor?

[daboarder]

a bloke in the comment section on naftka


first time I write on the site, as a blood angels player with the codex in hand, I have to say it is not so bad.

The problem is that a lot of things have been removed, here a simple list:
-tycho no longer negate armor save, attuali he dosen't have a cc weapon at all….
-assault squad and tactical squad can no longer have razorback, only the veteran can have it. Quite strange and disappointing.
- sanginary priest AND chaplain are hq now, very very disappointg as with the current codex the only way to get rerol to hit is the zealot rule of chaplain and the buff can only come from the priest….
- corbello have lost his fnp of 2, attuali he have only the 5 from the calice.
- every slot is realy crowded, with a single detachement is now impossible to run a mechanized army, as every tank is in the heavy support and razorback are only for veterans

[ElectricPaladin]

"- sanginary priest AND chaplain are hq now, very very disappointg as with the current codex the only way to get rerol to hit is the zealot rule of chaplain and the buff can only come from the priest…."

Is definitely false.

"- every slot is realy crowded, with a single detachement is now impossible to run a mechanized army, as every tank is in the heavy support and razorback are only for veterans"

Seems like a bunch of judgments rather than clear information.

I suspect a troll.

[daboarder]

good to know, I'm not personally fussed (flying circus doesn't do tanks) But I could easily understand others being upset about such and arbitrary change

[Bigred]

via Twinner on DakkaDakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/) 12-10-2014


Sanguinary Priests
Priests can't take Terminator Armor, but can take jump packs and bikes (standard points costs)
Only one per slot, so max 2 per detachment, allowing for no other HQs
Encarmine Weapons are; Sword is AP 3, master crafted, Glaive Ap 2 Str +1, master crafted, unwieldy
FNP buff works on whatever squad the priest is in, i.e allied squads such as... Centurions.

Character Info
Two Versions of Tycho (seperate entries)
Chaplains are HQ, although Lemartes is an Elite
Techmarine is HQ as well. (Getting kind of crowded there in the HQ spot)
Gabriel Seth is about the same cost, and Lord of War Same wargear, but rage and furious charge. Whilrlwind of gore changed to adding an additional attack for each 6 rolled to hit. His weapon is now called a Blood Reaver, str 8, sp 4 rending.
Corbulo- HQ, a couple more points in cost now. Basically the same re-roll. 3 W. Buffs all BA within 6 inches (1 WS, 1 Ini), but standard FNP on himself.

[daboarder]

hmm maybe I'll just have to bite ans run unbound to get my 3xRAS Priest Combo back

[fedratsailor]

since Techmarines are in HQ, I wanna believe they are like DA/C:SM, 1 per HQ. here's hoping. looking like picking HQ's are gonna depend on what type of list you want to make.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think it's time to disengage from the rumor mill, folks. We're at the point where so much information is out there that disinformation - both from transcription errors and trolls - are too easy. This is the way rumors always go. Slow and weird at first, building to a crescendo if increasing accuracy as the books hit hands early, followed by this weird period of doldumrs where the accurate rumors stop and weird crap floats into the ether... and then the books come out.

I can wait. It's only 42 hours until I can get my copy (assuming the storm doesn't delay the shipment...).

[White Tiger88]

The hell does Mephistons stats\ability's say????

[fedratsailor]

mephiston has a force sword, his own specific blessing WC1 for a str10 sword, he can hit on a 2+ if he rolls higher than the oponnets leadership on 2d6, 3w, 2+, S/T of a centurion. ML3. oh and most important Independent Character. I myself like his change.

on a side note I painted my BA's as a custom successor chapter, but im actually thinking about taking Mephiston/Corbulo as HQ's and Dante as LOW and filling up everything else as needed. those 3 alone would improve the units they join greatly.

[Psychosplodge]

Just waiting for the BAngels jump cavalry

http://i57.tinypic.com/iznbd2.png

[Wolfshade]

They would ride alicorns, noob.

I'm not sure I am totally sold on the new Mephiston changes.

[Cutter]

What annoys me about this new codex freakout is that everyone seems fixated on this one quality of the 5th Edition codex, as though it were the end-all be-all of what it means to be Blood Angels. Who the hell ever told you that? I've read the 5th Edition codex, and nowhere does it say that the only reason to play Blood Angels is assault marines as troops. Oh, sure, it certainly mentions that you might do that, and it obviously contains the rules for doing so, but... come on, people. Of all the things that make Blood Angels unique, assault marine troops is just one of them. And you are posting like the Blood Angels are over. What about sanguinary guard? What about close range firefights and assault? What about librarian dreads? Death company?

The majority of my Bangles are tactical :eek:, screw the kids :p

[Psychosplodge]

They would ride alicorns, noob.


Nah only the characters would.

[White Tiger88]

just waiting for the bangels jump cavalry

http://i57.tinypic.com/iznbd2.png

kill it with fire!!!!!!!!

[Wolfshade]

I do lovbe the idea of heavy flamers on tacticals, especially with how the new rules deal with units in ruins mwahhaaha! Multi-level carnage

[Psychosplodge]

SO you want red Salamanders?

[daboarder]

not quite, lets be honest, Blood Angels due to their love of speed and assault have always prefered assault weapons, which are usually heat based (for various reasons) therefore you will likely find a lot of cross over in blood angel and salamander desires.

Think of it like this, Salamanders are tough pyromaniacs, Blood Angels are FAST pyromaniacs

[Psychosplodge]

Well fire can be fun...

[daboarder]

Well fire can be fun...

DUDE, its half the reason I'm a chemist....or a third of the reason I guess

[White Tiger88]

DUDE, its half the reason I'm a chemist....or a third of the reason I guess

They let YOU play with fire?????? Oh god.....

*cough*

Anyhow i think Blood Angels should be turned into Plasma spam freaks...............

[Psychosplodge]

yeah I almost wish I'd done that.

[Jared van Kell]

They let YOU play with fire?????? Oh god.....

*cough*

Anyhow i think Blood Angels should be turned into Plasma spam freaks...............

Unleash colossal, jealous nerd rage from the Dark Angel players in...3...2....

JvK :cool:

[daboarder]

They let YOU play with fire?????? Oh god.....

*cough*


Mate, it goes way beyond fire. Ever seen that mythbuster episode where they dissolve the pig?

[Wolfshade]

You could have had
Dangels - Plasma
Sallies - Flamer
Bangels - Melta
misc. - Grav


don't forget SWolves and Helfrost.

[FireHazard]

You could have had
Dangels - Plasma
Sallies - Flamer
Bangels - Melta
misc. - Grav

This kind of post requires the introduction of a 'Like' button or it's equivalent... :)

I already changed to a Tactical set up with the last Codex so I'm not worried. Plus my Tacs get some new toys...

[Demonus]

don't forget SWolves and Helfrost.

[Wolfshade]

don't forget SWolves and Helfrost.

I knew the wolves had something, but I couldn't recall what it was.

[Defenestratus]

Seems that the Sang Priests sadly don't only work on Blood Angels. Assuming drop pods are FA choices like in the Wolves book -- "people" are already saying that the new hotness will be a CAD with Tigirius the trickster, 4 grav centurions and a sang priest in a drop pod.

Ace any monstrous creature turn 1 with no chance of failure - and get FNP to boot.

Makes me want to cry.

[fedratsailor]

Seems that the Sang Priests sadly don't only work on Blood Angels. Assuming drop pods are FA choices like in the Wolves book -- "people" are already saying that the new hotness will be a CAD with Tigirius the trickster, 4 grav centurions and a sang priest in a drop pod.

Ace any monstrous creature turn 1 with no chance of failure - and get FNP to boot.

Makes me want to cry.

wouldn't work 3 + Tiggie or 3 + a sang priest, you can't combine both characters. gotta remember that they take up 3 slots per centurion.

[Bigred]

via Forge the Narrative (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative?ref=hl) 12-11-2014


120201202112022

[Power Klawz]

Hm, strength 5, I6 ap2 attacks on the charge for BA captains? Is Captain Fabuloso of the 6th company a contender now? Might end up being a very nice bargain-beatstick with ap2 for only 20 bones. Strap a jetpack on him and put him in a unit of assault marines and see what happens. I'm getting kind of interested in maybe restarting a BA army, it would be nice to have some "good guys" for a change of pace.

[daboarder]

Hm, strength 5, I6 ap2 attacks on the charge for BA captains? Is Captain Fabuloso of the 6th company a contender now? Might end up being a very nice bargain-beatstick with ap2 for only 20 bones. Strap a jetpack on him and put him in a unit of assault marines and see what happens. I'm getting kind of interested in maybe restarting a BA army, it would be nice to have some "good guys" for a change of pace.

I'm more liking the idea of a dude rocking two warlord traits with a pair of lightning claws

[Power Klawz]

So wait, are the "new" Blood Angel specific termies really a thing? Is it confirmed?

[daboarder]

So wait, are the "new" Blood Angel specific termies really a thing? Is it confirmed?

Yes, its an assault terminator box set

Heres some coroboration on the fact that GW just took razorbacks away from people.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/12/40k-blood-angels-assault-squads-vehicles.html

****ing stupid GW

[Blood Shadow]

Did Tycho really deserve the nerf? Does his Warlord trait give Smash (my only remaining hope for him...)? List building is going to be so HQ centric now....wowzers that's a big change.... Dante might be an auto take with Sang Priest + either Chap, Meph, Furioso or additional Priest in the HQ slot.....unless multi CAD is a real thing.....

Can't help but feel that the balance/theme of all my BA lists has shifted from Elite support slots to role defining HQ choices... Curious as to how Astorath plays out as the only Recclussiarch left in the 'dex, any chance of a Recclussiarch command squad data slate, though the Marine one is regular chappy statline :(

[daboarder]

I have a funny idea about tycho.

Hes by nowans good from a game perspective but hes much more like his original character and given so much of his awesome is the history behind him im ok with that provided he is priced appropriately

[Blood Shadow]

The new post on BoLS suggests that Assault Marine Sgts can take combi weapons + 2x SW in the squad? Is that true if so a little funny.....

[White Tiger88]

Mate, it goes way beyond fire. Ever seen that mythbuster episode where they dissolve the pig?

So you are trying to create real nids in a lab then..........? Oh god.........

Also ya i forgot BA are the Melta fans :P

[ElectricPaladin]

The one thing to remember is that most Blood Angels players will be using the Ball Arms Detachment (BAD) rather than the CAD, so it really doesn't matter that we have to buy our razorbacks as Heavy Support. I can't remember the last time I used up all my Heavy Support slots. Now, if they were Fast Attack or (Emperor have mercy) Elite, it'd be a bummer.

[Blood Shadow]

Do JP now scatter 2D6".....only just thought about that and am now hyperventilating.....!!??!!

[daboarder]

Do JP now scatter 2D6".....only just thought about that and am now hyperventilating.....!!??!!

yes we no longer have army wide Decent of Angels, Dante and certain warlords may or may not change this (I think its far more likely that just their squad wont scatter)

- - - Updated - - -


The one thing to remember is that most Blood Angels players will be using the Ball Arms Detachment (BAD) rather than the CAD, so it really doesn't matter that we have to buy our razorbacks as Heavy Support. I can't remember the last time I used up all my Heavy Support slots. Now, if they were Fast Attack or (Emperor have mercy) Elite, it'd be a bummer.

Well the rumour is that the razors are a fast slot (so yes compete with the very unit you'd put in them.)

Also, by limiting them to FA or HS (whichever it ends up being) you practically remove the abillity for anyone to use more than 3, when many people likely own 4-6 this is unacceptable

[Mesi]

I'm a bit out of the loop here, and glancing through my 7th Edition book I can't seem to find it. But what exactly is Ball Arms Detachment?

[daboarder]

I'm a bit out of the loop here, and glancing through my 7th Edition book I can't seem to find it. But what exactly is Ball Arms Detachment?

A detachment option specifc to the upcomming Blood angel book

Mandatory: 1 HQ, 1 Elites, 2 Troops, Optionals :1 HQ 3 Elites 4 Troops 3 Fast Attack 3 Heavy Support

The bonus is +1I on the turn units charge into combat and re-roll warlord trait from the BA codex list


http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com.es/

Can someone who can read spanish have a look at the pictures in the above link, lots of info


Well there is Decent, looks straight outta the 5th ed codex. So dante is mandatory Warlord if you want a drop list, because no way in hell is rolling for a list strategy a good idea

[Gleipnir]

I am actually kinda surprised at the change of reducing Dedicated Transport options since It felt like Space Wolves got Stormwolf flyers as an option for nearly every unit, part of me had expected to see more options of using a Stormraven as such.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm a bit out of the loop here, and glancing through my 7th Edition book I can't seem to find it. But what exactly is Ball Arms Detachment?

It's actually called the Baal Strike Force, but Baal Arms Detachment sounds cooler. And also it lets us use the acronym BAD. As opposed to CAD (Combined Arms Detachment) or AD (Allied Detachment) or HAD (Hive-fleet Arms Detachment - also not it's real name).

[daboarder]

I dunno EP, BSF sounds cool too

[ElectricPaladin]

I dunno EP, BSF sounds cool too

Eh. It's ok. I like things that rhyme. CAD, AD, BAD, HAD. Whee!

[Blood Shadow]

http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com.es/

Can someone who can read spanish have a look at the pictures in the above link, lots of info



So much info in here...

The BA Company formation is freaking me out, it would appear Capt., Chap, 6x Tact, 2xAssault, 2x Dev, DC, DCD as a formation, everyone gets the +1 Int on the charge, and it appears EVERYONE gets objective secured....that sounds like a lot of points though...

Edit: no after rereading just the Troop units...so not that good

Edit: scouts seem awesome now! They can get sniper rifles for 1pt pm, they can take Hellfire rounds with their HBs...and can be Str5, Int5 on the charge add a priest and these guys are going to tear it up..... With what seems like a locator becon for 10/15 point....

Edit: Razorbacks are dedicated Transports for Tactical Marines, can't see anything about Marines taking CCW. Though looks like they can have two SW instead of a Heavy.
Sanguinary Guard now get DM at 1pt per model, other options are the same as before, no dedicated transports.

Edit: there's something odd about that Furioso entry.... No psychic power option, it's a standard Venerable type....perhaps Furioso Librarian has a separate entry?

Edit: DC seem to have gone up by 9pts per model! Really??!

Edit: Vanguard Vets 19pt per model.... Come with 2xUSR no idea what they are, probably the one to do with challenges...the other no idea?

[Wolfshade]

The one thing to remember is that most Blood Angels players will be using the Ball Arms Detachment (BAD) rather than the CAD, so it really doesn't matter that we have to buy our razorbacks as Heavy Support. I can't remember the last time I used up all my Heavy Support slots. Now, if they were Fast Attack or (Emperor have mercy) Elite, it'd be a bummer.

I'm that guy that likes to run triple vindicator lists...

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm that guy that likes to run triple vindicator lists...

Poor *******. I only own one. This update has been cruel to you.

[Defenestratus]

Poor *******. I only own one. This update has been cruel to you.

This update is cruel to anyone who didn't play their blood angels as red ultramarines it seems like.

[ElectricPaladin]

This update is cruel to anyone who didn't play their blood angels as red ultramarines it seems like.

I don't know if I want to get into this again. This position is unsupportable. You don't have to love the new codex, but the list of distinguishing differences is as long as my arm: unique special characters (of course), a new HQ, a unique vehicle, two unique jump infantry units, Fast transports and the option to buy Fast as an upgrade for other vehicles, army-wide Furious Charge and the option to upgrade that to army-wide old-school Furious Charge (+1 I), a unique psychic discipline, and unique (and envied) loadout for tactical squads.

Hell - I think that's more distinguishing options than the Dark Angels get. They get special characters (who can rearrange their FOC for them... for now), a skimmer, a flyer, two new units, and a handful of unique upgrades.

Like I said, I'm not arguing that you shouldn't have feelings about the new codex. If it makes your collection less efficient, go ahead and be frustrated and annoyed. If you don't like it, then you don't like it. But this idea that it makes Blood Angels "Red Ultramarines" is just insane. Is it really your position that what the Blood Angels have lost - Elite priests and chaplains, assault marines as Troops, dedicated transport razorbacks, Fast as a non-optional upgrade - are all that made Blood Angels unique? Seriously?

[Defenestratus]

I don't know if I want to get into this again. This position is unsupportable. You don't have to love the new codex, but the list of distinguishing differences is as long as my arm: unique special characters (of course), a new HQ, a unique vehicle, two unique jump infantry units, Fast transports and the option to buy Fast as an upgrade for other vehicles, army-wide Furious Charge and the option to upgrade that to army-wide old-school Furious Charge (+1 I), a unique psychic discipline, and unique (and envied) loadout for tactical squads.


Changing the ornamentation doesn't make a distinct difference. Especially when so many of our unique units are literally Blood Angel versions of existing units - just with slightly different rules and different models.



Hell - I think that's more distinguishing options than the Dark Angels get. They get special characters (who can rearrange their FOC for them... for now), a skimmer, a flyer, two new units, and a handful of unique upgrades.


They basically did with Descent of Angels what they did to Deathwing. Made it only available by picking a special character. However we got it worse because at least with Deathwing, you can take terminators as Objsec troops. THATS what I feel most of us disillusioned BA players want. We want our unique army formation back.



Like I said, I'm not arguing that you shouldn't have feelings about the new codex. If it makes your collection less efficient, go ahead and be frustrated and annoyed. If you don't like it, then you don't like it. But this idea that it makes Blood Angels "Red Ultramarines" is just insane. Is it really your position that what the Blood Angels have lost - Elite priests and chaplains, assault marines as Troops, dedicated transport razorbacks, Fast as a non-optional upgrade - are all that made Blood Angels unique? Seriously?

The crux of the "red ultramarines" statement revolves around the necessity to take tactical marines now. Thats it.

Tactical marines to me are literally the worst thing ever. I'd rather have a proctology exam by edward scissorhands than field tac marines. If i have to field tac marines to get Obj Sec, I might as well field UM's to at least make them worth a damn with their unique chapter traits.

So I will say this, I took a look at the psychic powers and with the exception of the primaris, they're pretty decent. I love the blood boil power that ignores invulnerable saves.

[Cutter]

Tactical marines to me are literally the worst thing ever. I'd rather have a proctology exam by edward scissorhands than field tac marines. If i have to field tac marines to get Obj Sec, I might as well field UM's to at least make them worth a damn with their unique chapter traits.

I suspect this will be like a red rag bedecked ultramarine to a bull, but I'll go ahead and ask the question anyway, couldn't you just run whatever you wanted unbound and be happy?

[ElectricPaladin]

I suspect this will be like a red rag bedecked ultramarine to a bull, but I'll go ahead and ask the question anyway, couldn't you just run whatever you wanted unbound and be happy?

We've had that argument already, and that's a pretty weak response. Unbound armies aren't all that great and a lot of local metas don't allow them. So now, he can't, because he's convinced (perhaps rightly) that he can't play unbound and if he did, he wouldn't be happy because he'd never win.

[Cutter]

We've had that argument already, and that's a pretty weak response. Unbound armies aren't all that great and a lot of local metas don't allow them. So now, he can't, because he's convinced (perhaps rightly) that he can't play unbound and if he did, he wouldn't be happy because he'd never win.

YMMV I guess, things seem much more relaxed this side of the pond.

(UK based)

[Wolfshade]

Poor *******. I only own one. This update has been cruel to you.

It's all good, I have a couple of companies and support vehicles so looking at the new stuff, the only thing I need is the preist models to swap out apothecaries, though having said that the new assault termies look sweet...

[Mesi]

Old school Furious charge, Death Company and Baal Predators are what make Blood Angels, Blood Angels. We lost Assault Squads as troops, it's not really a big deal.

Assault Squads as troops is nice and all, but Blood Angels are still Space Marines, they field tacticals. And sorry but Heavyflamer/flamer Tactical squads in fast Rhinos? Yeah... I'm not really seeing a downside here.

We get old Furious charge back, so we can actually WIN melee fights we've been losing for years. Old Furious Charge Makes Assault Squads Scary again. Old Furious Charge is what made blood angels more than anything else. It was their ability to be better in assault than other marines.

Cheaper Sang Guard? How many other armies get flying 2+ armor, power weapon wielding melee monsters, with I5 Str 5?

We get four Elite Slots, Dante isn't crippled by his power axe anymore, making his high initiative useless. Mephiston as IC, with just as much killing potential.

Honestly as far as I'm concerned this new book looks amazing, and we can actually field REAL assault threats now. I'm looking forwards to roasting hordes in glorious flames, and winning assaults again.

[Path Walker]

YMMV I guess, things seem much more relaxed this side of the pond.

(UK based)

I think people in the UK tend to be less competitive with the hobby, the competitive "scene" in the UK is seen as a bit of a joke by the rest of us.

(And obviously in the UK we can read gud and know that the rules don't "require your opponents permission to use Unbound")

- - - Updated - - -

Also Tactical Marines are pretty good and Tactical Marines with a Heavy Flamer, Furious Charge and +1 I when charging are even better.

[StraightSilver]

I do understand why a lot of people aren't happy and to some extent I do agree that Marines are becoming more and more homogenised which is a shame.

However as a die hard Ultramarines player I don't really see what all the hate towards Tactical Squads is about?

And I for one would kill to have Heavy Flamers in my Tactical Squads, and for my Tactical Squads to be able to have FNP and Furious Charge. Just sayin'.

[Garradh]

However as a die hard Ultramarines player I don't really see what all the hate towards Tactical Squads is about?

And I for one would kill to have Heavy Flamers in my Tactical Squads, and for my Tactical Squads to be able to have FNP and Furious Charge. Just sayin'.

Because what's better with FNP and Furious Charge than Tactical Squads? Assault Squads. What troop choice has always separated Blood Angels from other codices? Assault Squads.

It's a change I can live with, it's a change I'm going to accept, but I look forward to the formation that allows me to play a proper MSU DoA army again. Of course, they'll never have Objective Secured, but sometimes you take a loss here and get a win elsewhere.

[Path Walker]

Because what's better with FNP and Furious Charge than Tactical Squads? Assault Squads. What troop choice has always separated Blood Angels from other codices? Assault Squads.

My copy of Angels of Death says differently



It's a change I can live with, it's a change I'm going to accept, but I look forward to the formation that allows me to play a proper MSU DoA army again. Of course, they'll never have Objective Secured, but sometimes you take a loss here and get a win elsewhere.

Not many Detachments have Objective Secured, its boring, the fluffier detachments are better and the more they're used means that OS isn't such a big deal anyway

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Since some dont seem to understand why some of us dont want tactical marines - at least for me, when I used to play - I went with assault marines on the basis I hated the look of the tactical marine models. I hate that whole bent knee pose thing, utterly hate it - it puts me off a vast majority of the GW models in general (and other companies that do it too), the assault marines have much better looking legs. I dont even like the sillohete legs give on miniatures which is why with my own wargame I made every single race float - but if you are going to give them legs, at least give them a dynamic running pose so they dont look like their squatting down to take a dump.

[Bigred]

via Forge the Narrative (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative?ref=hl) 12-12-2014


BA Psychic Deck
12031120321203312034120351203612037

[Path Walker]

Since some dont seem to understand why some of us dont want tactical marines - at least for me, when I used to play - I went with assault marines on the basis I hated the look of the tactical marine models. I hate that whole bent knee pose thing, utterly hate it - it puts me off a vast majority of the GW models in general (and other companies that do it too), the assault marines have much better looking legs. I dont even like the sillohete legs give on miniatures which is why with my own wargame I made every single race float - but if you are going to give them legs, at least give them a dynamic running pose so they dont look like their squatting down to take a dump.

The new tactical squad (and the Blood Angels box thats based off it) are a lot more straight legged than before, its really noticable

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The new tactical squad (and the Blood Angels box thats based off it) are a lot more straight legged than before, its really noticable

Even so, I still dislike the look, they are still "standing". I only like running poses. At least with the recent Nid release, they finally added a good amount of floating stuff to the game (still have to do unbound though sadly)

[40kGamer]

I hate the no assault marines as troops simply because I themed my various marine armies.

Codex - Battle Company
Dark Angels - 1st Company Terminators
Blood Angels - Assault Company
Wolves - Great Company
Templars - Crusade

Now the only way to keep the theme is to go unbound which is like fighting with one hand behind your back.

[Defenestratus]

we've had that argument already, and that's a pretty weak response. Unbound armies aren't all that great and a lot of local metas don't allow them. So now, he can't, because he's convinced (perhaps rightly) that he can't play unbound and if he did, he wouldn't be happy because he'd never play.

fify.

[ElectricPaladin]

I hate to sound like a jerk, but... if you hate tactical squads, man is any Space Marine army the wrong choice for you. It's one thing to say that you like assault squads better - I do, too. They're more dynamic and easier to paint. But seriously... if you actually hate one of the core choices for your army - even if it's only one of two or three options - that army is probably the wrong one for you. I wouldn't play Tau if I hated fire warriors, even if I loved Kroot. I wouldn't play Eldar if I hated Guardians.

The only example of an army I might play if I hated one or two of their basic choices is Chaos Daemons. You could absolutely love Slaanesh, or Nurgle, or Tzeentch, and hate everyone else, and still do ok with Chaos, but that's because Chaos is really four factions glued together into one.

Honestly? I think you should just sell of your Blood Angels. It sounds like getting into them was, for you, a mistake based on the quirks of the 5th Edition codex, which it seems (I say "seems" because all this was before my time) like an aberration, in the history of Blood Angels that has given some players a warped idea of what the codex is about. Assault marines-as-Troops has been a recurring theme, a quirk of the Blood Angels, but I don't think it was ever meant to define them.

[Defenestratus]

I hate the no assault marines as troops simply because I themed my various marine armies.

Codex - Battle Company
Dark Angels - 1st Company Terminators
Blood Angels - Assault Company
Wolves - Great Company
Templars - Crusade

Now the only way to keep the theme is to go unbound which is like fighting with one hand behind your back.

Go ahead and take away terminators as troops from Dark Angels.

I dare you GW.

Thats what they've done to BA and thats why I'm upset.

The rest of the book looks great honestly. Those psychic powers, with the exception of the primaris look fantastic.

I'm just ticked that I wont be able to play a nice friendly game with my BA anymore. (Battleforged = Friendly Game, Unbound = I want to cheat to win. Thats how it works)

- - - Updated - - -


I hate to sound like a jerk, but... if you hate tactical squads, man is any Space Marine army the wrong choice for you. It's one thing to say that you like assault squads better - I do, too. They're more dynamic and easier to paint. But seriously... if you actually hate one of the core choices for your army - even if it's only one of two or three options - that army is probably the wrong one for you. I wouldn't play Tau if I hated fire warriors, even if I loved Kroot. I wouldn't play Eldar if I hated Guardians.

The only example of an army I might play if I hated one or two of their basic choices is Chaos Daemons. You could absolutely love Slaanesh, or Nurgle, or Tzeentch, and hate everyone else, and still do ok with Chaos, but that's because Chaos is really four factions glued together into one.

Honestly? I think you should just sell of your Blood Angels. It sounds like getting into them was, for you, a mistake based on the quirks of the 5th Edition codex, which it seems (I say "seems" because all this was before my time) like an aberration, in the history of Blood Angels that has given some players a warped idea of what the codex is about. Assault marines-as-Troops has been a recurring theme, a quirk of the Blood Angels, but I don't think it was ever meant to define them.

Well. You can sound like a jerk and I wont care. I'm not one of those people who thinks everyone on the internet needs to hold hands and sing kumbaya. Its ok to have different opinions, even if yours are wrong ;)

Incidentally I'm not a huge fan of guardians either. Never have been. Never thought the idea of arming musicians and poets is a really wise idea when your population is in decline already - but I love farseers and councils of psychic wizards pwning fools with magical lightning bolts from the sky - so whats an Ulthwe player to do? I created my own craftworld and use DA and wraithguard as my troops. Haven't used guardians in probably 10, 15 years. They're still painted in testor's enamel paint actually :P

See its ok to hate a core troops choice when there's another viable one to use. Thats what I had when I started blood angels when their 5th edition book came out. I had been wanting to start a marine army because I dug the dreadnought model and the predator model and I could learn to love the assault marine model. The tactical marine model is garbage. Even the new ones. I just don't like them - but as long as I played BA I didn't have to use them, but I could use my dreadnoughts and predators and other models I did like.

Now I can't do that unless I play Unbound - and I'm not willing to sacrifice my integrity as a gamer to run an unbound list since they're seen as blatant cheating.

[40kGamer]

I'm just ticked that I wont be able to play a nice friendly game with my BA anymore. (Battleforged = Friendly Game, Unbound = I want to cheat to win. Thats how it works)

- - - Updated - - -

Now I can't do that unless I play Unbound - and I'm not willing to sacrifice my integrity as a gamer to run an unbound list since they're seen as blatant cheating.

We should not be forced to play unbound in order to field the army we have been fielding for ages. For all we know GW may simply remove unbound from any future edition anyhow.

[Cutter]

I think people in the UK tend to be less competitive with the hobby, the competitive "scene" in the UK is seen as a bit of a joke by the rest of us.

(And obviously in the UK we can read gud and know that the rules don't "require your opponents permission to use Unbound")

- - - Updated - - -

Also Tactical Marines are pretty good and Tactical Marines with a Heavy Flamer, Furious Charge and +1 I when charging are even better.

I cut my teeth on RT and RTB01, if it doesn't have a flamer and missile launcher, it's not a squad of marines :D

[Gleipnir]

The Descent of Angels, Blood Angels army I would be disappointed if it does not come back as some form of formation/detachment, which would be a more appropriate way of doing so

That said I find it a little silly to be comparing Deathwing or Ravenwing to the all Assault Blood Angel army since it was only a recent inclusion and frankly made Tactical Blood Angels undesirable at the time which was the problem with its existence to begin with, Even Dark Angel Greenwing armies can take advantage of various Standards/Stubborn and with the inclusion of special characters Preffered Enemy(Chaos Space Marine)in the new edition. And yes for some of the same goodness Blood Angels gets in its Tacticals/Scouts and Assault marines I'd happily see my Ravenwing/Deathwing become Dataslate/Formation armies hopefully without the current requirement of overpriced special characters. (Which frankly is likely to happen with the current rules format)

Sorry but I just don't accept the Unbound is cheating argument, since "that guy" could easily come from Battle forged and Unbound lists, the fact that building an all Jump army may or may not require an Unbound army(we still don't know the answer on this since Shield of Baal contains 18 dataslates and likely its own FOC), players have decided to make Unbound=cheating not the rules. The rules already impose a penalty on Unbound lists.

[daboarder]

That said I find it a little silly to be comparing Deathwing or Ravenwing to the all Assault Blood Angel army since it was only a recent inclusion
Except it wasn't.

Of the 5 different army lists BA have had since 2nd edition only one of them has not allowed an all jump army before now

[Gleipnir]

Except it wasn't.

Of the 5 different army lists BA have had since 2nd edition only one of them has not allowed an all jump army before now

And may yet still allow it in the form of a formation, since GW seems to love stripping all that is special out of the codex to release it in a supplement or dataslate after the fact these days, still too soon to tell.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean it only took what a Codex, 3 Dataslates, a second release wave and 2 Campaign supplements to give Tyranids a complete codex

[daboarder]

And may yet still allow it in the form of a formation, since GW seems to love stripping all that is special out of the codex to release it in a supplement or dataslate after the fact these days, still too soon to tell.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean it only took what a Codex, 3 Dataslates, a second release wave and 2 Campaign supplements to give Tyranids a complete codex

Thats what Im hoping for from exterminatus (which is up by the way)


Has detachments for 1st comp. 2nd comp and Flesh tearers.

If they cant give us a FA oriented material in that then they arent trying

The 64-page rulebook includes:
- 8 new missions based on the events of the narrative book.
- 18 new datasheets for the Blood Angels 1st and 2nd Companies, Flesh Tearers, and the Necrons of the Mephrit Dynasty. That’s the equivalent of four Codex Supplements in one book!
- new warlord traits, relics and force organisation charts for all four armies

[Gleipnir]

Yup already grabbed my copy of it, between Codex/Supplements/Campaigns this year I had to put off starting my IG army another year, which only slows me down from being able snag the Eldar/Dark Eldar/Daemon armies I am hoping to start collecting

[Gleipnir]

And like that sold out at least in NA...really hate the limited quantity crap, still bummed we didnt see a re-release of Shield Generators and Promethium Pipes again for the holidays

[Defenestratus]

And like that sold out at least in NA...really hate the limited quantity crap, still bummed we didnt see a re-release of Shield Generators and Promethium Pipes again for the holidays

Its ok, you can "pre-order" the "digital" version... *boggle* :rolleyes:

[Mesi]

Got the new Dex in front of me now. And honestly other then losing assaults as troops, and a bit of a nerf to Mephiston's base stats. It's all good things in my eyes. I love this new book and can't wait to test it out in a few days.

FYI Assault troops can take two specialist weapons as a 5 man squad, and Dante is an absolute beast. He gets Descent, and an additional Warlord Trait. On top of that sweet new +2 Strength not unwieldy axe. All with his previous stat-line. He's LoW too.

[daboarder]

What do each of the warlords actually do, could you let us know please?
honestly that removal of RAS is pretty major, but GW have an opportunity to fix that in exterminatus so lets hope they do

[Mesi]

Warlord Traits

Warlord gets rampage
Warlord gets +1 I
Upgrade one piece of gear to Master crafted
Warlord has Adamantium Will
Descent of Angels - Reroll ALL reserves, not just jump troops; plus the scatter reduction
12 inch fearless bubble

Dante gets Descent plus a roll on the standard Tactics table.
Gabriel has rampage.
Corbulo gets +I
Mephiston and Astorath have Adamantium Will
Sanguinor has Fearless bubble
Tycho has Rampage (both versions)

Also a subtle but imo big change is our Stormraven missiles got changes. They are no longer Str 8 ap 1. But Str 8 AP 2 - Concussive. Which is a pretty decent tradeoff imo.

[daboarder]

cheers

[Defenestratus]

Got the book myself and yes, the loss of reclusiarchs and troop assault marines are the turd to an otherwise nice book.

[Gleipnir]

Feels overcrowded in the HQ and Elites now, will have to see what Exterminatus brings in the form of formations since the Battle Company is way too expensive unless your looking for an Objective Secured army with Red Thirst at 1335 before any sort of upgrades

[ElectricPaladin]

Feels overcrowded in the HQ and Elites now, will have to see what Exterminatus brings in the form of formations since the Battle Company is way too expensive unless your looking for an Objective Secured army with Red Thirst at 1335 before any sort of upgrades

That cheap? Glancing at it, I'd thought it couldn't be done outside of apoc or very large (2k+) standard games, but I didn't actually try to build a list.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Mephiston with Adamantium Will? Eat the darkest part of my butt.

[Blood Shadow]

Small equipment things I picked up:

Relic blades and Artificer armour + jump pack + relics + priest can build some nasty CC unit

Relics are better than what the named characters have

Loss of Master Crafted other than by chance....bit odd

Blood Talons are no longer a trade off, 10pts for shred on Str 10 is a luxury

Scouts are nice point efficient units.....

But the over arching problem is there aren't enough slots in Elite or Fast without going multi-cad :(

A formation which allows for 6 Elites, 2 Troops, 6 Fast would be nice...

[daboarder]

we get relic blades now? ok nice but almost two editions after they we're super awesome

[Blood Shadow]

There's always the AP2 Relic!

[Houghten]

Go ahead and take away terminators as troops from Dark Angels.

I dare you GW.

Thats what they've done to BA and thats why I'm upset.

They will, you know. DA are going to lose Troop Wings, Eldar are going to lose Troop Wraithguard and Farsight is going to lose Troop Suits. Orks were just the first in line.

[Gwhizz84]

They will, you know. DA are going to lose Troop Wings, Eldar are going to lose Troop Wraithguard and Farsight is going to lose Troop Suits. Orks were just the first in line.
Are you sure it's not a slightly more commercial viewpoint from GW? Most BA players don't need any more assault marines, so they'd only sell maybe 1 kit per player for bits if they released a new Assault box and kept them as troops.. However if they bring out a specific BA tac box and then make tac squads the only real troop option.. 2+ boxes for most BA players. They really don't seem to care about fluff and balance if it means people are spending less.

[Gleipnir]

First glance Dante and a Jump upgraded Sang Priest seem beastly added to any unit in Assault.

[Mesi]

First glance Dante and a Jump upgraded Sang Priest seem beastly added to any unit in Assault.

A 10 man squad of Sang Guard, with two fists, and 2-3 Axes. With the rest swords and lead by a Jump Librarian or Priest honestly sounds downright scary. Throw in a banner if you want. But between 40 Angelous Bolter shots and their power weapon I5 Str 5 charge, most units they approach are going to disappear.

Not to mention pretty tough to remove with a 2+/5+

[Blood Shadow]

Winners and Losers as I see it:

BA Captains - relics, Warlord traits, relic blades, artificer armour... These guys just became everyone's best friend, WS 7 Int 6 Str 5 2+ 4++ with two decent warlord traits is pretty nasty.
Chaplains - these assaults HQs whilst at first appear nerfed in the HQ slot are bringing rerolls to hit to things like+1WS +1Int FC LC BA Termies... Not to be sniffed at... Astorath or Lemartes on DC are pretty decent still too
Sanguinary Guard - Fear, 10 man squads, +1A banner at +1Int are plenty lethal
Mephiston - CentStars new BF, free 12" move yes please.... Hitting on 2+ Str10 FW....hmmm... Also a great Psychic shutdown unit with PsyH, AW and Lvl3
Scouts - Camo cloaks, FC, HF HBs... Str5 on the charge... +1 WS +1Int... F'n'P?
Fast Tanks again :) great for Tempestus allies
Sang Priest: now not a must take, but decent enough buff...
Assault Terminators...The Boss is a BA and wearing TA, probably in a Storm Raven
Sternguard with HF in a drop pod... You got my attention, do I charge into the wall of death or face Str5 Int5 next turn?
Librarians - now cheaper... But will you take one over everything else?

Losers:
Blood Talons... Waste of time especially on DC dread
Fast Attack Slot....oh boy...I could fill this with 3 of every option...and want to take all of them
Vanguard Vets... A must take said nobody ever..competing with DC and Sanguinary guard...there's never a reason to take them...
Assault squads... Now in a tight fast attack slot...inferior to scoring DC in everyway...why would you take these...just infiltrate more scouts

[daboarder]

Here's the archangel detachment.


Real shame, terminator armour compulsory on characters, so no running them in vanguard squads :(

Also means that we're down a potential detachment for jump armies (heres hoping for the 2nd Co or FT detachments to help)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10849767_317498915114533_3000209912438772415_n.jpg ?oh=a225f58a9f0c798336f6892a71cc339c&oe=5503CABE&__gda__=1430561132_70fe4cdb5a08ccb45861698d64fc9bf 9

[fedratsailor]

Here's the archangel detachment.


Real shame, terminator armour compulsory on characters, so no running them in vanguard squads :(

Also means that we're down a potential detachment for jump armies (heres hoping for the 2nd Co or FT detachments to help)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10849767_317498915114533_3000209912438772415_n.jpg ?oh=a225f58a9f0c798336f6892a71cc339c&oe=5503CABE&__gda__=1430561132_70fe4cdb5a08ccb45861698d64fc9bf 9

that sucks, right FOC but the limitation of TDA just kills it. and wouldn't the 1st company have marines that fall to the Curse also. would have figured at least 1 DC squad.

P.S. No sanguinary priests also. oh well.

[Bigred]

via Forge the Narrative (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative?fref=photo) 12-14-2014

Blood Angel Archangel Formation
12041

[RGilbert26]

that sucks, right FOC but the limitation of TDA just kills it. and wouldn't the 1st company have marines that fall to the Curse also. would have figured at least 1 DC squad.

P.S. No sanguinary priests also. oh well.

As soon as you fall you join the DC, they are separate from all companies and so would not feature in a 1st company formation.

[Wolfshade]

via Forge the Narrative (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative?fref=photo) 12-14-2014

Blood Angel Archangel Formation
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=12041&d=1418630179

Mwhahahaha! Say hello to the 1st company. I am so going to be using this.

#moreterminatorsthanthedeathwing

[daboarder]

shame you cant just give the characters Jump Packs instead of Tarmour

[Wolfshade]

Yeah, because that was one of the old things in the fluff that the 1st company would be VAS.

Ah well.

[Mr Mystery]

16 Dreadnoughts........16........16...........16.....


16

[daboarder]

16 Dreadnoughts........16........16...........16.....


16

No, 6, read the small print

[Mr Mystery]

Bah.

[Defenestratus]

No bonus to initiative either. I found that very useful yesterday.

[Wolfshade]

16 Dreadnoughts........16........16...........16.....


16


No, 6, read the small print

Also, only 10 squads in the first company...

[Benoit St-Martin]

Just to make sure (because I can't seem to find a clear answer on the subject...), does Dante still have his ability that makes SG a troop choice? That would somewhat save my current army from being a victim of the nerf stick (in this case, a nerf bat if you ask me...) I currently run Dante with 2 SG, which was pretty much the only way I had to take objectives...
Also, is Lemartes still counted as a normal DC unit for the count or is he an Elite seperate but ultimately included in it on the field...? That would be a sad waste of an elite slot...
Thanks :)
(first post ever, awesome!)

[JMichael]

via Forge the Narrative (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative?fref=photo) 12-14-2014

Blood Angel Archangel Formation
12041

Is that from the codex or WD?

[Defenestratus]

Is that from the codex or WD?

Not in the codex.

[ajefferism]

Winners and Losers as I see it:

Losers:
Blood Talons... Waste of time especially on DC dread
Fast Attack Slot....oh boy...I could fill this with 3 of every option...and want to take all of them
Vanguard Vets... A must take said nobody ever..competing with DC and Sanguinary guard...there's never a reason to take them...
Assault squads... Now in a tight fast attack slot...inferior to scoring DC in everyway...why would you take these...just infiltrate more scouts

Assaults squads are pretty awesome but not as a scoring troop, they are great tank poppers now. For dirt cheap, they can have a 5 man non jump pack with 2 meltas and 1 combi melta on the sargeant all in a free drop pod. Or if your feeling lucky you can give the sargeant 2 inferno pistols with gunslinger, 4 melta shots... though i think the combi melta is better because of scattering with drop pods. Drop a bunch of these units down 1st turn and say goodbye to enemy armour first turn (that and linebreaker).

[Power Klawz]

Assaults squads are pretty awesome but not as a scoring troop, they are great tank poppers now. For dirt cheap, they can have a 5 man non jump pack with 2 meltas and 1 combi melta on the sargeant all in a free drop pod. Or if your feeling lucky you can give the sargeant 2 inferno pistols with gunslinger, 4 melta shots... though i think the combi melta is better because of scattering with drop pods. Drop a bunch of these units down 1st turn and say goodbye to enemy armour first turn (that and linebreaker).

Very much like Chaos raptors now, which I feel are a slightly underrated unit(still too pricey when tooled up to actually get in a fight, but good for dropping in with some special weapon love, only not as popular due to csm termie squads being 3 minimum making them an economically viable alternative.) Being able to go minimum size and pack in some plasma, melta or flamer action is pretty nice for under 150 jelly beans. They also brawl like raptors now too, and for cheaper. (MoK raptors with an icon of wrath are very pricey.) In fact they get the best of both Slaanesh and Khorne for what amounts to free.

I think I'd stick with plasma stacking on a 5 man assault unit unless you absolutely know you'll be facing a Land Raider Classic Car Club. Much more versatile loadout that can still deal with light and even medium vehicles. Plus dropping in from deep strike to within 6" melta range can be pretty dangerous, 12" rapid firing plasma range is much easier to pull off.

[ajefferism]

Very much like Chaos raptors now, which I feel are a slightly underrated unit(still too pricey when tooled up to actually get in a fight, but good for dropping in with some special weapon love, only not as popular due to csm termie squads being 3 minimum making them an economically viable alternative.) Being able to go minimum size and pack in some plasma, melta or flamer action is pretty nice for under 150 jelly beans. They also brawl like raptors now too, and for cheaper. (MoK raptors with an icon of wrath are very pricey.) In fact they get the best of both Slaanesh and Khorne for what amounts to free.

I think I'd stick with plasma stacking on a 5 man assault unit unless you absolutely know you'll be facing a Land Raider Classic Car Club. Much more versatile loadout that can still deal with light and even medium vehicles. Plus dropping in from deep strike to within 6" melta range can be pretty dangerous, 12" rapid firing plasma range is much easier to pull off.

I plan on running Sanguinary Guard and Death Company hammer units to do most of my killing, either deep striking or jump packing from my deployment zone. A couple drop pod min sized assault squads are a nice destraction from the impending doom of SG DC jump pack units coming for your base. Also the drop pods are great for contesting or distracting fire. The best part is the assault squads are SO DAMN CHEAP!

I think so many people are hurt by them not being troops anymore, but they definately have good choices and I think they are one of the best fast attack choices out there (bikes with grav/melta are quite good too).

[Blood Shadow]

Assaults squads are pretty awesome but not as a scoring troop, they are great tank poppers now. For dirt cheap, they can have a 5 man non jump pack with 2 meltas and 1 combi melta on the sargeant all in a free drop pod. Or if your feeling lucky you can give the sargeant 2 inferno pistols with gunslinger, 4 melta shots... though i think the combi melta is better because of scattering with drop pods. Drop a bunch of these units down 1st turn and say goodbye to enemy armour first turn (that and linebreaker).

I agree that's nice... But a land speeder with 2x Multi Melta is half the price of a Melta blasting AS....competing in the same slot....and also fairly reliable to come in with Dante's rules...

[Blood Shadow]

Erm... White Dwarf formations?

http://waaaghgaming.de/gratis-exterminatus-datasheets-und-mehr-im-naechsten-white-dwarf/

[Defenestratus]

I might actually pick up the WD this week if it has formations in it. When are the WD actually released?

[daboarder]

saturday,

if I do get it, it'll be the digital copy

[Gleipnir]

seeing as the next two WD have the card stock perforated Cities of Death objective cards in the insert I'll probably get physical copies myself

[Blood Shadow]

This looks like WD48... So the week after next?

Flesh Tearers formation... Entire formation on a single reserve roll, rage and reroll failed charges, counter attack and fearless
Vanguard & Assault Squad formation, Assault Squads can use the Vanguard Squad as a locator beacon
Tactical Squads in Stormravens coming in as a single reserve...

These are labelled as exclusives...so not in the Shield of Baal book then?

[Houghten]

White Dwarf with card inserts?

Wow, 7th Edition really is 2nd Edition Mark II, isn't it?

[Gleipnir]

This looks like WD48... So the week after next?

Flesh Tearers formation... Entire formation on a single reserve roll, rage and reroll failed charges, counter attack and fearless
Vanguard & Assault Squad formation, Assault Squads can use the Vanguard Squad as a locator beacon
Tactical Squads in Stormravens coming in as a single reserve...

These are labelled as exclusives...so not in the Shield of Baal book then?

Yup exclusive to WD until they release it again in another format later

[Gleipnir]

For those curious the Exterminatus Formations are;

Blood Angels

Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
-Any combination of 3 Terminator or Assault Terminator Squads, Must be placed in Deep Strike Reserves, one roll for the entire formation, units can Run then Shoot the turn they arrive by Deep Strike.

Archangels Sanguine Wing
-2 Vanguard Veteran Squads(10 models each w/ jump packs), 1 Sternguard Veterans(10 models embarked in Stormraven), 1 Stormraven, begin in Deep Strike Reserves, may choose to re-roll for Reserves, entire formation arrives same turn, Sternguard receive 1 free Stormbolter/combi weapon upgrade per model and Vanguard Vets receive 1 free power weapon or lightning claw upgrade per model.

Archangels Demi Company
- Pretty much half of the 1st company lead by either a Captain in Terminator Armor or a Chaplain in Terminator armor formation receives Stubborn, Scatter distance on Deep Strike is D6 instead of 2D6 and if the warlord is from the detachment can reroll on warlord table. Consists of Captain(can be Karlaen) or Chaplain, 2 Furioso Dreadnoughts, 5 squads in any combination of Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard Veterans.

The Archangels
- Basically two of the above Demi Companies put together with all the same rules as a Demi company plus the ability to roll Reserve for units from the formation Turn 1, one key difference is they also omitted the terminator armor requirement for the generic captain and chaplain. So basically captain(can be Karlean) a chaplain, 4 furioso Dreadnaughts and 10 squads of terminators, assault terminators, vanguard veterans, sternguard veterans in any combination.

Blooded Demi-Company
- As with the first company this is pretty much half of a Battle Company lead by either the captain with a command squad or a chaplain plus Furioso Dreadnaught. Rest of the formation is made up of a Dreadnaught, 3 tacticals, 1 assault and 1 devastator squad, not a lot for special rules besides Red Thirst and the standard Warlord gets to reroll warlord traits on the Blood angels warlord traits in the blood angels codex.

Strike Force Mortalis
- 1 Chaplain, 3 Death Company squads, 2 Death Company Dreadnaughts and a Stormraven, units gain Crusader, and any model that doesn't have Rampage gains an extra +1 attack if the combat they are in contains more enemy models than friendly models, determined by how many models are locked in combat, does not count for disordered charges.

Dante's Avenging Host
- Dante, Mephiston, 1 Librarian, 1 Sanguinary Priest, 1 unit of Sanguinary Guard, Blooded Demi-Company led by a chaplain(see above), and 3 Stormravens. Must be equipped with jump packs, embarked upon one of the stormravens or embarked upon a Drop Pod purchased at normal cost(you would require at least 1). Can re-roll failed Reserve rolls for units with the Deep Strike special rule(nothing about those units being required to arrive via Deep Strike though, so those units with Jump Packs could be deployed as normal) also scatter distance for units arriving from Deep Strike reserve is reduced by D6, and the big one, All non vehicle units in the formation have Objective Secured. At 2000 points minimum before any sort of upgrades though.

[Gleipnir]

Flesh Tearers

FOC is 1 HQ/1 Troop/1 Fast Attack w/ 1 HQ/3 Troops/3 Elites/5 Fast Attack/3 Heavy Support/1 Fortification/1 Lord of War (Optional) All units must be Blood Angels faction, if is your primary detachment you can reroll on flesh tearer warlord trait table, and each time a unit from the detachment successfully charges an enemy unit with a unmodified roll of 10 or greater that unit gains Rage.

Flesh Tearers Vanguard Strike Force
- 3 tactical squads, 1 assault squad, 1 vanguard veteran squad, 1 furioso dreadnaught, unit get Red Thirst(+1 initative on charging as codex) And while the van vets are alive all units have Stubborn and ignore any penalties for disordered charges including for Red Thirst.

Lysios Relief Force
- Gabriel Seth, 1 Tactical squad, 1 Vanguard Vet squad, 1 Baal predator, 1 predator, 1 stormraven. All units without Jump Packs must begin embarked on a transport vehicle other than Drop Pods, All units begin in Reserve and all units in formation arrive at the same time via same reserve roll. Formation gains Crusader.

The Defenders of the Cathedrum
- 1 terminator squad(although the image shows assault terminators), 1 Death company squad, 2 tactical squads, 1 assault squad, 1 Furioso dreadnaught, the formation gains Counter-attack and Stubborn

Strikeforce Razorwind
- Lysios Relief Force & The Defenders of Cathedrum, units retain all formation special rules plus roll for reserves for the formation on Turn 1, and all non vehicles in 12" of Seth have Fearless

Only 3 new Warlord trait tables, FOC, and relic sets in the book, with the Archangel table/relics reserved for Archangel Formations or Archangel Detachments only, same for Flesh Tearers, with warlord traits and relics restricted to Flesh Tearer formations or the Flesh Tearer detachment in the exterminatus book, Mephrit Dynasty relics and warlord traits again restricted to Mephrit dynasty formations or a detachment created from the FOC in the exterminatus book.

Both the Flesh Tearer formation and Mephrit Dynasty formation from White Dwarf 47 would be eligible for their respective detachment specific options as well though.

Overall impression is the Stormraven tax is heavy on a lot of the formations, that or you are buying Vanguard Veterans

[DWest]

Archangels Sanguine Wing
-2 Vanguard Veteran Squads(10 models each w/ jump packs), 1 Sternguard Veterans(10 models embarked in Stormraven), 1 Stormraven, begin in Deep Strike Reserves, may choose to re-roll for Reserves, entire formation arrives same turn, Sternguard receive 1 free Stormbolter/combi weapon upgrade per model and Vanguard Vets receive 1 free power weapon or lightning claw upgrade per model.
1 weapon upgrade per *model*?! :eek: That's a typo, right?

[Gleipnir]

nope its free power weapons and combi weapons for all the models, I don't know if power fists are normally classed as power weapons(I'd say they aren't since they listed separately as such), but it didnt say pair of lightning claws either. My guess is they wanted to offer a unit of Vanguard Veterans a formation that might make them more appealing than Death Company

Everything Necron is pretty much already out there same for the White Dwarf formations albeit fuzzy and the Archangels FOC

[DWest]

I was just surprised, because that works out to 400 points of free gear, on a ~900 point formation.

[fedratsailor]

Archangels Sanguine Wing and the Flesh Tearers FOC imho are going to be the 2 most used from this book. picking mine up in about 10 hours.

[Houghten]

I don't know if power fists are normally classed as power weapons(I'd say they aren't since they listed separately as such)

As far as army lists are concerned, "power weapon" means "power sword, power axe, power maul or power lance."

[Mr. Smith]

You guys are missing the true power of the codex. Toughness 3 dreadnoughts, figure it out and deal with it!