View Full Version : Which Leman Russ do you take?
Emperorsmercy
08-03-2009, 01:15 PM
There are lots of Leman Russ types, and lots of argument about them. But which ones do you think are a msut have, and which ones arent that good? And how do you use them in your army?
I always take at least one Punisher, They are the weilders of the high strength, 20 shot gatling cannon, with Pask.
I never take the ordinary Lemas russ. Not because I dont not like it, its just I dont have a place for them.
Dingareth
08-03-2009, 01:21 PM
I've been running:
Leman Russ Exterminator
Knight Commander Pask
3x Heavy Bolters
Heavy Stubber
Camo-Netting
Leman Russ Executioner
Hull Lascannon
2x Plasmacannon
Leman Russ Squadron
2x Leman Russes
Hull Heavy Bolters
It's worked pretty well, as I find the Executioner a bigger threat to 2+ armor saves than the Demolishers that it replaced. The range also helps it stay out of Melta range. Pask is there to take out transports to slow down said Meltas. The Russes also hang back, rolling around, dropping 2 AP3 pieplate on anything that's not in cover.
Aldramelech
08-03-2009, 01:32 PM
Im only using 2.
1 Vanqiusher to handle big armoured nasty things
1 Punisher for hordes of unpleasant small things
I have 3 armoured sentinals (Autocannon, Plasma Cannon, Las cannon) for cheaper mobile firepower
RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 01:45 PM
i gotta say I think that the "classics" are the best out of the Russ's.
Standard LRBT with or without heavy bolter sponsons still gets the job done efficiently and cheaply. Also the Leman Russ Demolisher w/hull las cannon and sponson plasma cannons is still consistently the MVP of my games because its tough and multi tasks so well. The only time I've really been looking at the new varients is when I'm planing an all mechanized list.
But even then I prefer things like valkyrie mounted melta vets to the vanquisher for tank hunting.
crazyredpraetorian
08-03-2009, 03:06 PM
LRBT Heavy Bolters
Demolisher Lascannon, Plasma Cannons
Demolisher Heavy Bolters(I may convert it to all flamers)
MrGiggles
08-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Personally, I think Leman Russ's are the Pokemon of tanks. I've got a looted LRBT for my Orks already, but there's a wee voice in me head saying 'Gotta loot 'em all!'
Zombie Savant
08-03-2009, 04:08 PM
I strongly feel that the best 150 points you can spend in a Guard Army is the Standard, Naked, Leman Russ. That is not to decry the uses of the other variants (Exteriminator with Pask to me seems excellent, but is pricey), but when, for the price of Executioners, you can have 4 Standard, the numbers speak for themselves.
If I had to pick the two variants with the best role and potential it would be Exterminator and Executioner, as they both fill useful niches in a guard list.
Chumbalaya
08-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Executioner: 5 plasma cannons anyone? Cover or no cover, you're dead.
Demolisher: S10 AP2 ordnance, kills Land Raiders, Termies, and everything.
Eradicator: The best way to deal with troops in cover is to ignore it completely.
The other variants are either pure fail (Punisher, Vanquisher) or have units that fill the same roles cheaper and better (LRBT, Exterminator).
RocketRollRebel
08-03-2009, 06:46 PM
Executioner: 5 plasma cannons anyone? Cover or no cover, you're dead.
Demolisher: S10 AP2 ordnance, kills Land Raiders, Termies, and everything.
Eradicator: The best way to deal with troops in cover is to ignore it completely.
The other variants are either pure fail (Punisher, Vanquisher) or have units that fill the same roles cheaper and better (LRBT, Exterminator).
As brutal as 5 plasma cannons is, doesn't the demolisher do essentialy the same thing only for fewer points and with the ability to take down AV14 if need be?
one 5" plate doesnt generate as much hits as 3(5) 3" ones and is more random. additionally executor is good VS monsters where the demolisher can only place 1 wound/hit the executor has okay chances to place 3!
Old_Paladin
08-03-2009, 07:04 PM
As brutal as 5 plasma cannons is, doesn't the demolisher do essentialy the same thing only for fewer points and with the ability to take down AV14 if need be?
It does, but also at shorter range (24" vs. 36")
Also, if the target is 9" away, and you roll that 12 on the scatter dice and the wrong direction, you have a tank busting Str: 10 right back down your own barrel; never have to worry about plasma arcing back. [I've never seen it happen yet, but I have seen close calls (that did kill nearby allied infantry)].
Against AV14, your better off with any kind of Russ melta-sponsons. The battlecannon with meltas is going to be a better against a mix of armour and infantry. Even the plama turret and melta sponsons; for the mix of termies and AV14.
I like my tanks to have the abilty for at least some long ranged firepower.
Valdore
08-03-2009, 07:21 PM
Executioner definitely has a place in most of my armies after using it ;)
Battle Tanks also do, mainly because they are the iconic tank of the Guard and I play against a fair few well armoured armies, so the exterminator just doesn't cut it.
Haven't tried the Punisher yet, so I can't say anything on that.
If you were to broaden it to tanks though, the Banewolf would be straight after the Executioner, now THERE is a tank full of pain for pretty well any army out there :p
Chumbalaya
08-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Bingo.
I'd avoid multi-meltas, or sponsons of any kind for that matter (beyond Executioner plasma). They have to stay still to fire both and you're still only at BS3.
Zombie Savant
08-03-2009, 08:38 PM
Bingo.
I'd avoid multi-meltas, or sponsons of any kind for that matter (beyond Executioner plasma). They have to stay still to fire both and you're still only at BS3.
Agreed 100% here. I'd even be doubtful of the Sponsons on the Executioner, but I that could even be good depending on the situation.
My favorite is the Executioner with plasma cannons, it is a game changer infantry users fear it.
N-Bomb
08-03-2009, 09:24 PM
I usually swear by a punisher and a battle tank or two in most of my games, I find the battletanks can just about do any job good enough to get its points. With a large blast its great for tyranids (if they use a lot of gaunts and stealers), orks, and other guard, and strength 8 ap 3 makes just about everything except maybe termies die.
The punisher is just fun 20 shots, whether it does crap or not...throwing dice is fun.
I wasn't a huge fan of the executioner until I tried the 5 plasma cannon strategy...killed cranked out nob unit in one round...I"ve used it every game since.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of the 4 shot twin linked autocannon (i think the exterminator but I might have the wrong name there), just not what I want from a big ol' tank.
crazyredpraetorian
08-04-2009, 12:46 AM
one 5" plate doesnt generate as much hits as 3(5) 3" ones and is more random. additionally executor is good VS monsters where the demolisher can only place 1 wound/hit the executor has okay chances to place 3!
I try not to waste pie plates on Monstous Creatures. Killing Monstrous creatures is a job for Ratlings.
Aldramelech
08-04-2009, 12:54 AM
I feel like Jeremy Clarkson is standing on top of a cliff shouting at me "You've brought the wrong tank!"
RocketRollRebel
08-04-2009, 01:37 AM
I try not to waste pie plates on Monstous Creatures. Killing Monstrous creatures is a job for Ratlings.
Demolishers can be effective at knocking out TMC's that mostly tend to have 2+ saves. Catching tyrants and their guards with templates is always a fun time. Especially when they dont scatter off! haha But yeah I'll agree that tanks arnt the best MC hunters.
Majorcrash
08-05-2009, 08:43 AM
one 5" plate doesnt generate as much hits as 3(5) 3" ones and is more random. additionally executor is good VS monsters where the demolisher can only place 1 wound/hit the executor has okay chances to place 3!
And dont forget theloinger range. plus the look of concern on marine players face for thier little temines. (go ahead deep stike them)
Majorcrash
08-05-2009, 08:46 AM
Bingo.
I'd avoid multi-meltas, or sponsons of any kind for that matter (beyond Executioner plasma). They have to stay still to fire both and you're still only at BS3.
doesnt the lumber rule say as long as it moves not more the cmbt speed it fires all?
Majorcrash
08-05-2009, 08:48 AM
But what good is the Eradicator. short range, ok str, low AP. less rear armor and it ignores cover................ wouldnt a demoliser be a better choise. about the same price, better armor, better guns, same range, better gun, AP 2,
Madjob
08-05-2009, 09:57 AM
doesnt the lumber rule say as long as it moves not more the cmbt speed it fires all?
No, it says that it may always fire its turret gun in addition to whatever other weapons it is allowed to normally fire so long as it moves at combat speed or slower. So a Russ moving 6" can fire its main cannon/what have you, and a single other weapon (not considering defensive weapons). This also allows Russ turret guns that are Ordnance to fire alongside another gun, since the rule overrides that particular aspect of Ordnance guns.
Inquisitor Lord Haestus
08-05-2009, 11:42 AM
one 5" plate doesnt generate as much hits as 3(5) 3" ones and is more random. additionally executor is good VS monsters where the demolisher can only place 1 wound/hit the executor has okay chances to place 3!
Now if you put plasma sponsons on the demolisher you now have one 5" and 2x 3" plates and is not more random than an Executioner. They have the same BS, unless you stick Pask then it is very much less random and can kill AV14 stuff running around...
twomas_rox
08-05-2009, 05:38 PM
No, it says that it may always fire its turret gun in addition to whatever other weapons it is allowed to normally fire so long as it moves at combat speed or slower. So a Russ moving 6" can fire its main cannon/what have you, and a single other weapon (not considering defensive weapons). This also allows Russ turret guns that are Ordnance to fire alongside another gun, since the rule overrides that particular aspect of Ordnance guns.
Ok, i have been confused on this one also. I like to run my basic LRBT with a Lascannon Hull Weapon. With the Lumbering Behemoth, i take it that i can move and fire the Battle Cannon and the Lacannon as much as i want.. as long as i move 6" of course. Others in my group have told me that the Lascannon is not able to be shot with the battle cannon no matter what.. can anyone explain this to me and let me know if i am right or wrong.
thanks
crazyredpraetorian
08-05-2009, 05:56 PM
Ok, i have been confused on this one also. I like to run my basic LRBT with a Lascannon Hull Weapon. With the Lumbering Behemoth, i take it that i can move and fire the Battle Cannon and the Lacannon as much as i want.. as long as i move 6" of course. Others in my group have told me that the Lascannon is not able to be shot with the battle cannon no matter what.. can anyone explain this to me and let me know if i am right or wrong.
thanks
You are right, your friends are wrong. Refer them to page 48 of the ig codex. The rule there supercedes the BRB.
Valdore
08-05-2009, 07:10 PM
As crazyred has rightly said, the codex rule always outrules the rulebook. It is said so by GW and any decent player should know it, the exact rule in the book states that you may fire the turret weapon along with any weapons it may normally fire at combat speed or slower, because you can normally fire one weapon at combat speed you may therefore fire that one weapon and your turret weapon. So long as it is a Leman Russ tank. If I had the codex handy I would quote the exact rule for reference, but I don't so hard luck :p
If in doubt, just tell your friends to check with their local GW staff, that will put them in their place :)
Oh, and the other important part of the rule is that it doesn't matter if the weapon is ordnance or not, which is where they may be getting confused as for everyone else if firing an ordnance weapon you can't fire any other weapons that turn. Again, the codex takes precedence over the rulebook :)
Majorcrash
08-06-2009, 07:03 AM
OK from the Book " Lumbering Behemoth. A Leman Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapon it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!) However, a Leman Russ traveling at crusing speed can only move up to D6 + 6" - roll every time it moves at this speed."
Spelling and bad grammar are all GW.
Dingareth
08-06-2009, 07:26 AM
If in doubt, just tell your friends to check with their local GW staff, that will put them in their place :)
Actually please don't. Red and Black Shirts aren't the end all know all rules gods that people think they are. My manager was constantly coming to me for simple questions in Fantasy, and he was my boss! So please, show your friends the book, and don't rely on someone else's ruling.
At another GW store by my school, I had the manager tell me that I couldn't disembark from a Drop Pod becuase the doors were glued shut...
Valdore
08-06-2009, 08:49 AM
They're bad examples of Black shirts in my experience, though I see your point, if they don't understand it from you showing them the book then maybe take the book and person to someone from GW :)
twomas_rox
08-06-2009, 10:19 AM
Thats what I thought. I have a big campaign game next week. Fighting on an open ice world with no terrain...
I plan on bringing a LRBT squadron of 3, with BattleCannon and Lascannon. Its going to be sweet. Playing Assaulty Chaos Marines. My hopes are to thin them down before they reach my lines and then drop my GRey Knight Termies down to clean up the mess.
Dingareth
08-06-2009, 11:30 AM
Are you using your other 2 Heavy Support Choices? Becuase otherwise you are always better off with 3 squads of 1 rather than 1 squad of 3.
twomas_rox
08-06-2009, 11:38 AM
Yeah, i was planning on using the other two slots with Basilisks.. I wanted to split them up to be on either side of my deplyment zone. Last time i bunched them together, they got targeted and went down real quick..i was thinking this will help make his choice harder on which targets he wants to go after first
imperialsavant
08-09-2009, 05:20 AM
There are lots of Leman Russ types, and lots of argument about them. But which ones do you think are a msut have, and which ones arent that good? And how do you use them in your army?
I always take at least one Punisher, They are the weilders of the high strength, 20 shot gatling cannon, with Pask.
I never take the ordinary Lemas russ. Not because I dont not like it, its just I dont have a place for them.
;) Well I always take 2 standard Russ's without sponsons but with Lascannon Hull mount & 1 Vanquisher & that combo works in both normal 40K games & Apocalypse.
The Vanquisher really earns its points.
Barry H.
BuFFo
08-09-2009, 09:54 AM
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Lascannon
Heavy Bolters
Leman Russ Demonlisher
Lascannon
Heavy Bolters
I only use the two good old standards :)
Guardnut
08-12-2009, 07:19 AM
If you are fighting with a static line of tanks against a horde army then how about 3 punishers with heavy bolter sponsons and hull mounted? Each tank then gives you 29 shots and combine that with Pask in one of them gives you on average 48 hits even against high toughness opponents needing 6 to wound that still gives you 8 saves needed.
Against trooper based units with T3 and sv of 5 that will give you on average 26 unsaved wounds.
Black Katalyst
08-12-2009, 07:46 AM
There's no school like the old school. I run regular LRBTs and maybe a Demolisher or two on 4'x4' table games.
LRBT
-Battle Cannon
-Hull Heavy Flamer
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Glocknal
08-12-2009, 10:00 AM
one 5" plate doesnt generate as much hits as 3(5) 3" ones and is more random. additionally executor is good VS monsters where the demolisher can only place 1 wound/hit the executor has okay chances to place 3!
@Xas
I'd agree with you that the 5 plates are better then one 5" plate, but remember that the Demo can take sponson Plasma, put out one 5" two 3", at 25 points cheaper. Executioner is a better MEQ killer at range, but nothing beats the Demo in versatility. Dont forget insta death to Str 5, and threatens AV14
BTW I take:
1 LRBT
1 LR Demolisher
and usually another LRBT or a arty piece.
SlavesToDarkness
09-01-2009, 12:40 PM
Here is what I usually take:
LR w/Heavy Bolter
LR Exterminator w/ Lascannon
LR Demolisher w/ Heavy Flamer
On a good day, I can also bring my Executioner w/Lascannon and Plasma Cannon Sponsons.
Apocalypse?
Emperor's Lance:
1 x LR (Command Tank) w/Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
SQUAD I: 1 x LR w/Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons; 2 x LR w/Heavy Bolter
SQUAD II: 1 x LR w/Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons; 2 x LR w/Heavy Bolter
SQUAD III: 1 x Executioner w/Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons; 2 x Executioner w/Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
LR Demolisher w/Heavy Flamer
On a good day, they will all be accompanied by an up-gunned Macharius (Macharius Battle Cannon, Twin-Linked Lascannons, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter Sponsons) and a Malcador w/ Battlecannon, Lascannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons.
melloracer
09-01-2009, 12:57 PM
I run a squad of good old generic Leman Russ' and a squad of 2 punishers. I will probably add the executioner in the near future.
never under-estimate the reliable generic Russ...
Kungfuhustler
09-01-2009, 01:08 PM
If you are fighting with a static line of tanks against a horde army then how about 3 punishers with heavy bolter sponsons and hull mounted? Each tank then gives you 29 shots and combine that with Pask in one of them gives you on average 48 hits even against high toughness opponents needing 6 to wound that still gives you 8 saves needed.
Against trooper based units with T3 and sv of 5 that will give you on average 26 unsaved wounds.
I have been fiddeling around with running a punisher squadron.
3 punishers, all with Hull heavy bolter & stubber, one w/ pask.
I outflank them with creed/astropath.
This setup will produce a SERIOUS hurt machine dealing out 78 shots per round while on the move. Doing this from the flank of your choice gives you a big fat distraction that can and will destroy almost anything it points at, especially terminators.
It's costly, but I' playtesting it right now to determine it's worth. Points per shot it seems fairly effective.
The Defenestrator
09-01-2009, 01:17 PM
the thing about the Demolisher vs. executioner discussion is that you rarely see more than half a dozen models with 2+ armour in a unit; meaning a direct hit with the demolisher is, say, 6 hits, whereas each plasma cannon shot can usually get at least 2, often 3. And again, it hunts lone models rather well vs. the demolisher.
I run:
1 Executioner - plasma sponsons (he can move 6" and only loses a single cannon shot), sometimes hull lascannon though usually just a flamer
2 Demolishers - hull HF, also sometimes lascannons (2 S10 ord shots that can pulp hordes and smash tanks consistently; gotta love it. I'm not usually bothered by the squadron rules on these guys, as they're ALWAYS moving 6", and have rear AV11 so are far less troubled by assaults).
My third slot is usually either 3 Hydras, or I split up the Demolishers in lower point games.
Majorcrash
09-01-2009, 01:19 PM
just finished up a tourney where I came in second. But i was one of two IG armies competing against 1- orc, 1 - daemon, 1- Dark eldar, and 9 marines. Thus coming prepared to fight marines I brought the Executioner, LRBT, and a vanquisher. THe LRBT was equiped with bolters an lascannon, the exe and vaq both had lascannon, and plasma sponsons. All did well an the executioner was assume against SM, not so good against daemon. By the way God do i hate soul grinders. Normally I would have taken an extra LRBT but the tourney was only for 1500 pnts.
Twilit
09-01-2009, 01:57 PM
I've now played with every single Russ type out there and have come to some conclusions. These are only my opinions, based on how the tanks have performed for me in the past several games:
LRBT: The old standby, nothing really wrong with it, but these days I'm no longer fielding it. Why? See below.
Exterminator: Because this thing puts out more wounds, more reliably. Even if you give both sponsons, the Exterminator is just going to put more wounds down due to not scattering and not being twin-linked. In the terrain heavy 5th environs, the large majority of crap is getting 4+ saves anyhow. Versus MEqs in open terrain, the LRBT has its uses, but overall, the Exterminator has it beat.
Vanquisher: I used to love the Forgeworld model of this thing, when it had a choice of firing it's AT shell or HE. Now, I've played with it a couple times, and armed with a lascannon, yes, it will kill that Land Raider... but there are cheaper ways to do it and afterwards you're left with a tank that's outlived its usefulness. Or a smoking crater. The AP2 is a nice touch though, and is useful for cracking those MCs... except that you really need more than 2 wounds going on them per turn, and adding sponsons to the Vanq is really running up its price. But as someone mentioned above, in Apocalypse, especially with Pask, this tank really earns its points back. Hell, even add camo for extra survivability. After you've killed your 2nd Baneblade, you're well ahead on points.
Eradicator: Ehh... I'm mixed on this one. Yeah, it'll kill most things in the book hands down. S6AP4 and no cover? Painful. Murders Eldar, Guard, Orks, Tau, etc. But for the things that you most often want to deny cover to? Not so useful. Nob bikers, Striking Scorpions, Attack Bike Squads... So if you can find a place for it, the Eradicator is a good fit in your army.
Demolisher: I love this tank so much. I instant anything that can be instant-killed, blow up tanks, kill termies and am a giant freaking fire-soaking magnet. I love this thing so much. I usually kit it out with a lascannon and plasma sponsons, stick it out where people can fire at it, get a shot off and then laugh as focus fire tries to kill it and the rest of my army dismantles my opponent. Sure, it'll die like most Russes to melta and railgun fire, but the value of the demolisher really shines in distraction. And so far, by the luck of the gods, I've only lost one once, in the last round of a game.
Punisher: I hate this thing so much. It misses half the time and doesn't wound nearly enough to make up for its points cost. There was a sort of visceral glee in rolling 23 dice for one tank, but after my second time killing only 3 orks with it, it wore off. Bad luck compared to statistics, I know, but that's how the bones roll. Costwise, sticking heavy bolters on it REALLY isn't worth it.
Executioner: Wow, this thing is expensive. I only ever field it around 2000 points, but when I do, its an even bigger fire magnet than the demolisher. Less effective in an all-around roll than the demolisher, but it eats heavy infantry like nobody's business... when it doesnt scatter. This is what I use to eat Carnifexes.
And on a side note, Pask: BS4 in Guard is always welcome and rerolling wounds on MCsis totally worth it. Boosting the strength of the weapon vs. vehicles... Eh, in some cases. You get the most out of him in the Vanquisher and Executioner, I think. Vanquisher for obvious reasons, and Executioner because it turns the tank into a missile-launching platform! Sticking him in a Punisher is hilarious vs mech though.
slobulous
10-14-2009, 01:15 PM
I try not to waste pie plates on Monstous Creatures. Killing Monstrous creatures is a job for Ratlings.
I don't know what kind of MCs you go up against, but the kind I fight laugh at sniper bullets bouncing off them.
Lord Azaghul
10-14-2009, 01:48 PM
I don't know what kind of MCs you go up against, but the kind I fight laugh at sniper bullets bouncing off them.
Rending doesn't bounce.
Melissia
10-14-2009, 06:48 PM
One Leman Russ Battle Tank. But then I play a Sisters army which occasionally uses IG allies.
Exitus Acta Probat
10-14-2009, 06:54 PM
In order of personal preference,
Executioner(spons plas/Hvy Flamer): not an unmounted unit I cannot kill with this, period...and I have other methods of dismounting people than russes.
LRBT(no sponsons/Hvy Fl): Points efficiency FTW. Moving roadblock, infantry killer and fire magnet...for one low price!
Eradictor(HB/HvyFl): infantry kill FTW...too useful to sidestep cover saves in Coverhammer 5e.
Demolisher(No sp or MM/HvyFl): it's so scary that people's response to it occasionally pays the points hike...
Pask=waste of points. He's great fun, and fluffy, but not efficient. Save him for leagues and casual, don't bring him to tourney...
all other russes are points inefficient. Their yield is low, or they are over-pointed. Fun, he##s to the yeah...but not efficient.
IMHO
mercer
10-15-2009, 07:13 AM
I'm currently rocking and rolling with demolishers. They might have a short range but once they're in range they sure as hell make up for it and wreck anything - nasty pieces.
I tried the vanilla russ, its good for anti troops and light vehicles but not against the toughies.
I have given a punisher some thought, those heavy 20 shots just have a calling. Executioner are looking attractive atm.
Lord Azaghul
10-15-2009, 07:34 AM
Currently running the reliablies: BC w/LC Demo, with plasma sponsons.
I keep looking at the punshier, but being a BS 3 army ( I don't like spending 50pts for a BS upgrade) - I don't don't think its worth it.
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