United or Split? Thought on =][= codex

[Renegade]

Following some of the debate on the News & Rumours. When the DH, WH and =][= get redone, should it be as one codex with plenty of options, or split to further diversify the armies?

I would prefer a spilt, close to what they have now.

SoB for SoB but no rules for =][=

GK for GK but no rules for =][=

=][= with rules for ISTs, Deathwatch, different types of Inquisitors and allying to other armies. This would be the only one of the 3 codices with rules to ally as well.

Agree or Disagree?

[Aegis]

I agree on part one, disagree on part two, and am hesitant about part three.

Though I love throwing Inquisitors into my Sisters army (I maintain they are not that bad, people merely choose not to learn how to use them properly), the Sisters should have their own book. My final comments on that one, as I do not wish to open up this particular conversation again.

As far as part two goes, the Ordo Malleus is too directly linked to the Grey Knights, with the GK's being the chamber militant of the Order. As such, I do not believe you can have a GK codex that fulfills all the fluff requirements without some showing by the =I=.

Part three is where I am iffy. Doing a full book could be really cool, if done right. However, it also holds the potential to be screwed up beyond all belief if done poorly. I desperately want my Inquisition to live on on the table top, but not if they are done wrong.

Of course, all these reactions are based upon current fluff/rules as they exist, so if GW changes something integral, my opinion may change.

[BuFFo]

Put them all on one book.

Aside from the Grey Knights and Battle Sisters, both books currently share the same 8ish units. Condensing them all in one book is perfect.

[DarkLink]

As far as part two goes, the Ordo Malleus is too directly linked to the Grey Knights, with the GK's being the chamber militant of the Order. As such, I do not believe you can have a GK codex that fulfills all the fluff requirements without some showing by the =I=.

I'd disagree. Inquisitors may call in the Grey Knights, but when the Grey Knights fight, they do just fine on their own. Inquisitors hunt down the Daemonice, Grey Knights kill it.

That said, without a shift in fluff there would almost certainly be some Inquisition units in a Grey Knight codex.



Part three is where I am iffy. Doing a full book could be really cool, if done right. However, it also holds the potential to be screwed up beyond all belief if done poorly. I desperately want my Inquisition to live on on the table top, but not if they are done wrong.


Right, Inquisitors rely on other military forces for, well, military stuff. The Inquisition is an intelligence network, like the CIA, not a military force primarially like the IG or SM's. That's the whole point behind the Deathwatch, Grey Knights, etc.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Actually the SoB only work along side the Ordo Heriticus, they dont work for them, they are part of the Ecclesiarchy.

Me i have to say that SoB need a codex for themselves, as does GK's. The Inquisition should be a seperate codex altogether imho.
The SoB have enough stregth to deserve there own codex, sure id like to see GW add more to there range, and tweek there rules and costs, but thats been overdone in other threads.

GK should also deserve a singular codex with same reasoning.
I think the Inquisition should confer rules for all the 3 Ordo's and allow usage within other armies eg: IG, SM, WH and DH.

[Crimthaan]

Ideally I'd like to see all three of the ordo's to have their own codex. IF they were all crammed into the same codex (which I beleive is going to be the case) I'm afriad they are going to be screwing the fluff of each. However, if the codex is done with all three included, then certain wargear better have comments like "Ordeo Xeno's only, or Ordo Malleus only" and these stipulations should also be in the force organization areas. I dont want to see Death Watch with Ordo Hereticus or GK's with Xeno's, know what I mean?

@Aegis: Isn't the Sisters of Battle the chamer militant of the Ordo Hereticus, so by your own arguement for the GK's being in a codex with inquisitors so too should the Sisters be in a codex with Inquisitors.

[Renegade]

I'd disagree. Inquisitors may call in the Grey Knights, but when the Grey Knights fight, they do just fine on their own. Inquisitors hunt down the Daemonice, Grey Knights kill it.

That said, without a shift in fluff there would almost certainly be some Inquisition units in a Grey Knight codex.

Except that in the present DH codex, it is not necessary to take and Inquisitor. When was the last time you played a full company or regiment in a "normal" game?


Right, Inquisitors rely on other military forces for, well, military stuff. The Inquisition is an intelligence network, like the CIA, not a military force primarially like the IG or SM's. That's the whole point behind the Deathwatch, Grey Knights, etc.

Inquisitors "can" have their own "armies" though by having a separate one for them, they could work as they are suppose to and call in any backup.

[Dark_Templar]

*DT puts on his Melissia-proof vest*

Things are gonna get crazy in here...

[eagleboy7259]

Personally I'd rather the SoB have their own book. However knowing GW I doubt it would sell well on it's own so I understand if they just roll it into the comming =][= book. I think there is so little that is truely unique with the GK units that GW could have gotten away with making them and the Deathwatch just another special unit type in the Space Marine codex. However they didn't and there is always room for improvement and if its legitimately new units and not just new rules for the old ones then I could be excited.

[pchappel]

:) Just picking up Grey Knights now, and I'd be thrilled to see them all in once SM/Wolf sized codex... Give it a fair number of HQ units so they can make the specific armies (WH/DH) if the players want to... Frankly I see a lot of overlap, and WH/DH armies with a mix of the 2 in them.... 'course, jus my opinion as a newcomer to the army...

[wittdooley]

:) Just picking up Grey Knights now, and I'd be thrilled to see them all in once SM/Wolf sized codex... Give it a fair number of HQ units so they can make the specific armies (WH/DH) if the players want to... Frankly I see a lot of overlap, and WH/DH armies with a mix of the 2 in them.... 'course, jus my opinion as a newcomer to the army...

Here's the thing about the Sisters of Battle...

They have their own versions of pretty much EVERYTHING in a normal Space Marine codex:

* Sister Superior: leads a single squad of Battle Sisters.
* Seraphim: only the very best Battle Sisters are able to join this elite. Seraphim receive special training and equipment.
* Dominion: Standard battle sisters with special weapons
* Retributor: Standard battle sisters with heavy weapons
* Celestine: See Seraphim
* Battle Sister: the basic rank of Adepta Sororitas.
* Repentia: Close Combat specialists.

In addition to their armour.

And that's just the Orders Militant. I can absolutely see someone cleverly throwing in the three other orders as choices for the codex.

[Melissia]

I don't particularly care about the inquisition. I just want my Sisters to get their own codex. Make it separate codices, Sisters / Grey Knights / Inquisition, with the latter being a codex designed for use in an allies type setting.



Put them all on one book.

Aside from the Grey Knights and Battle Sisters, both books currently share the same 8ish units. Condensing them all in one book is perfect.


The Sisters are their own army, employed by the Ecclesiarchy. They always have been, and even in C:WH they're equal partners with the Inquisition-- the agreement between the two organizations is one of mutual assistance, not of servitude.



* Sister Superior: leads a single squad of Battle Sisters.
* Seraphim: only the very best Battle Sisters are able to join this elite. Seraphim receive special training and equipment.
* Dominion: Standard battle sisters with special weapons
* Retributor: Standard battle sisters with heavy weapons
* Celestine: See Seraphim
* Battle Sister: the basic rank of Adepta Sororitas.
* Repentia: Close Combat specialists.

A bit simplified.

Celestians (not Celestine-- that is a special character) are the utmost elites. Celestians are a combination of bodyguards, close combat specialists, and line troopers, if that makes sense. I suppose you could compare them with Sternguard, but that's not entirely a fair comparison as they are supposed to be close combat specialists compared to normal Sisters and don't have so many special weapons as Sternguard.

Seraphim are closer to Vanguard Veterans than anything in the Sisters hierarchy, and yet at the same time they're different. They're shootier than other jump troops in the game, and have the best hit and run rule bar none, letting them be extremely tactically useful.

Repentia are not really close combat specialists, any more than Celestians or Seraphim. They have the same WS attribute as those two. Repentia are different from anything within the Space Marine codices except maybe the Death Company, but they aren't really those either. In their best incarnations, they would either be either cheap cannon fodder capable of causing damage if ignored -or- powerful and expensive close combat specialists. At the moment, they're neither, and the worst unit in the tabletop game.

Dominians are also slightly different than described. They are trained specifically in mechanized warfare, but otherwise that's mostly correct.



And that list doesn't include the Ecclesiarchal units, which are part of the Sisters army, not the Inquisition, as the Ecclesiarchy is the Sisters' primary employer. Sisters already have a full codex worth of units compared to most 3rd and 4th edition codices. They just need to be expanded and rebalanced, with a few more units created with care, and they could easily have a fifth edition codex that rivals any of the ones put out thus far.

[pchappel]

Except of course for the Terminator armor :) Oh, and the 4's across the board for stats... I'm also a big fan of the deep striking Marines and Land Raiders... With Str 6 in HtH and lots of power weapons...

Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the WH lists, but I seem to see a lot of things that our local WH player "misses" and wishes he had...

[rbryce]

dont really care how its done. id prefere seperate dexs, but if the combine them, im sure ill be able to convince peeps to let me use my old and outdated dex in games instead, after all they are(not)the weakest army out there. ive posted so many times my opinion on this, if you want it, read any of the posts ive made on sisters related stuff these last few weeks

[sebi81]

I admit I would prefer a combined codex. There could be options to allow a pure SoB or GK army if you want so. for example could GK and SoB be elites in an inquisitorial force and standard if you take a canoness or a GK captain as HQ. The wargear for inquisitors doesn´t need to be divided for the ordos, an inquisitor could easily be equipped with whatever he´s preferring. And the ability to take SoB, GK and troops of the inquisition would weaken the disadvantage the inquisition gets when it isn´t able to ally with other imperial forces any longer. I don´t think that there will still be any rules for allies in a new codex. not even the chaos deamons can ally with chaos marines.

[plasticaddict]

While I can see putting out multiple books to cover the different Ordos and their supporting forces (SoB & GK), I believe that we will see a combined Codex that will allow the use of variant forces based upon what units you choose. The SoB are not part of the Inquisiton but then neither are the GK, having these forces combined with the =I= makes an =I= army playable in what is a war game. I look forward to having a single book that will include options for the three main orders of the Inquisition and both the Daughters of the Emperor and the Grey Knights chapter, as they are often the only forces that an Inquisitor can trust to do their duty without hesitation in a full scale battle.

[Madness]

This thread is a complete repeat of discussion that already went through, so my opinion stays the same.

What they should do:

Codex: Ecclesiarchy
Codex: Inquisition (VERY LARGE)
Grey Knights army list (not a codex)


What they are going to do:

what they did last time (Witch hunters/Daemonhunters) ... OR
Megasupersloppycodex.

[Jwolf]

Notice:

Inquisition threads tend to generate inordinate amounts of rancor and strife. I will nuke this from orbit if the tone is not kept civil.

[Faultie]

Notice:

Inquisition threads tend to generate inordinate amounts of rancor and strife. I will nuke this from orbit if the tone is not kept civil.

I'm already submitting the necessary paperwork to request such an action. I can only hope that it makes it through the proper channels, and the barrage-bombs come raining down, before things get too out of control.

[Melissia]

Can GW do a good job on a single Inquisition Codex?
Extremely unlikely. Combining four often wildly different factions (to say nothing of the Inquisition itself, which has easily more individual variation than the Space Marines) and doing it in a way that makes the players of all four factions happy is extremely difficult. I do not believe it likely that GW can do it and do it to my satisfaction. But then doing a combined codex at all is not to my satisfaction to begin with.

The fluff doesn't really support it, either. It might support an Inqusition codex with grey knights, deathwatch, and allies options to take Sisters as allies, but the Sisters in specific are not part of the Inquisition, they are allies with them. The Convocation of Nephilim means that the two organizations assist eachother when asked, nothing more. Even in C:WH, it's obvious that the vast majority of actions taken by the Sisters is not at the behest of the Inqusition but for their primary employers, the Ecclesiarchy-- the Imperial Cult, the Imperial Church, etc.

Their best stories have nothing to do with the Inquisition, too. Praxedes single-handedly slew a Hive Tyrant in close combat defending a Shrine World as its population and artefacts were being evacuated, and then led her Sisters in a hit and run campaign against the horde while Guard elements held the line. The saddening tales of the battle for Armageddon, and Sanctuary 101 were similarly defenses of Ecclesiarchal shrines and etc. The vast majority of fluff for the Sisters has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Inquisition.

Furthermore, they split the Space Marine factions, which you have FAR more support for combining into one codex. C: SM / C: BA / C: BT / C: DA / C: SW fit far easier into one codex, and yet they separated them. There's more in common with these factions than there is with the Sisters, Grey Knights, and Inquisition. You might argue that it's for profit reasons and blah blah blah, but if it really was better for business to print one book instead of multiple books like you claim, then wouldn't they have done so here, too? But they didn't. It can't be because of popularity, because they don't really make money off of the codices, they make their money off of the models. And if they DO make money off of the books, then it makes even MORE sense to split them up.

I don't want to settle for less and don't want GW to. I want my army to have its own codex like it has in the past.

[GM Rex Nihilo]

Issues:

Can GW do a good job on a single Inquisition Codex?

Does the Fluff support a single Inquisition Codex?

Is it a business decision more than anything to make a single Inquisition Codex?


The ability to do a good Codex: The DH Codex moreso than the WH Codex was produced in an era when they quickly put out Codexes. It was produced with out the same attention to detail and consideration for the effect on other Codexes and the overall effect on the meta game etc. like JJ has ensured happens now certainly more than previously. The result has been much better for the game as we have seen some very well done Codexes. I believe with that attention to detail they could very easily do a single Inquisition Codex.

Fluff reasoning: There is no question the Inquisition is the common thread to all the aspects of the specific Ordos and their respective Chamber Militants so it would be reasonable to have the central theme for all aspects be the Inquistion. The SOB/GK armies out there will still be supported likely moreso than ever as they are the best selling portions of their respective Codexes.

Mind your Business? I am a 'fan'centric business thinker rather than a profit motivated shareholder as I believe if you support the end consumer than you'll get your profit in spades. Having said that you can't please everyone so go with the business model when all else is equal. Hey the current DH Codex is from the end of third ed. so if it gets us a good Codex put them together in one Inquisition 'dex.

my thoughts,

[Faultie]

BEGONE FOUL TROLL!
Foul Troll?

Where have you been for the other half-dozen similar threads?

I personally only want a unified =I= Codex because it would be done sooner. However, I prefer individual Codex releases because it would be done better

[Melissia]

To my knowledge, the Grey Knights are:

2 HQ, 1 Elite, 1 Troops, 1 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support (five if you include all Land Raider variants)

[Melissia]

I agree, the Inquisition could be done separately easily. The Inquisition has enough variability and Inquisitorial agents and inductees give the organization potential for its own codex. Inquisitors alone would have huge amounts of customization if done properly, the most of any single unit in the game.

[pchappel]

Unless the Grey Knights are "fleshed out" a LOT, they're 3-4 entries in the current Codex? So I can easily see them remaining "whatever" book comes out... Not a whole lot of variety among the current Knights...

[Renegade]

I'm already submitting the necessary paperwork to request such an action. I can only hope that it makes it through the proper channels, and the barrage-bombs come raining down, before things get too out of control.

BEGONE FOUL TROLL!

Going from BL work alone I am fairly sure that a fan-dex could be easily made for the Inquisition alone, and cover all FOC slots easily, not to mention what can be found in the DH & SoB codices. I would love to have the responsibility of writing that one, with the full studio that GW has to keep things on track and to get ideas from. "welcome to the grim dark, this will hurt, but do worry, you wont remember a thing."

Though it could be done as an all in one, the plastics would be competing and it would have to be a massive tomb to be done well and expand on what fluff is already out there.

Going for a separate codices would boost sales in each one, and if one of them was a flop, then they could disappear in the next edition.

[Renegade]

Foul Troll?

In response to your comment. What do you expect if you call for someones thread to be closed. I could have called you something else, but I think the mods would have turned the melta on me.


Where have you been for the other half-dozen similar threads?

So far, apart from you calling for this tread to be closed, I would say that its going along fine.


I personally only want a unified =I= Codex because it would be done sooner. However, I prefer individual Codex releases because it would be done better

Imo, better is always preferable sooner.

[Faultie]

Foul Troll?In response to your comment. What do you expect if you call for someones thread to be closed. I could have called you something else, but I think the mods would have turned the melta on me.
And this is why JWolf popped in to mention this. For some reason, you cannot even take a reference to barrage-bombing a thread without getting defensive. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy!


Where have you been for the other half-dozen similar threads?
So far, apart from you calling for this tread to be closed, I would say that its going along fine.
I don't know that that's even a response to that statement. I was bringing up the fact that there are many other threads on this similar topic, most involving non-comical angriness. I figured a humorous reference to the bloated bureaucracy of the Administratum would lighten things up, not send you to the barricades in defense of the thread (not that it matters...the barrage bombs and bombardment cannon make a mockery of even your mightiest thread-defense bulwarks!)


I personally only want a unified =I= Codex because it would be done sooner. However, I prefer individual Codex releases because it would be done better
Imo, better is always preferable sooner.
At least we agree here!

Lighten up, chap! :D

To be more on-topic: Non-Combined Inquisition Codex (or Codices) are fine with me, so long as we get some Arbites in there somewhere!

[Artein]

Meh, in 2nd edition Sisters of Battle had their own codex and everyone was fine with that.
In, 3rd edition they put them (Emperor knows why) into Codex: Witch Hunters with few Inquisition and few Officio Assassinorum units.
Now everyone (maybe not everyone, but that's the general trend) wants to fully combine Sisters with Inquisition, Grey Knights, Death Watch and Assassins. Why? Really, what's the point? It'll be like combining Imperial Guards, Space Marines and Mechanicum into one codex. Do you want IG and SM in one codex? I think not. Then why do you want to do this with SoB and GK?

[gwensdad]

What I'd want:

Codex: Sisters of Battle
Not much needed to just do this now. Maybe clean up points, a few new vehicles
Codex: Grey Knights
But only if more units are added. Do they have scouts? They need techmarines (as I recently saw in a special game 3000 pts vs 3 random stompas), access to the "regular" marine vehicles (or a reason why not)
Codex: =I=
with units that can only be taken if certain types of inquisitors are taken. i.e. Deathwatch if there is an Ordo Xenos present. Arbites units. Updated stormtroopers (all ordos). Ally rules where Malleus can take GKs and Hereticus can take SoB (thus requiring you to own those codexes too). Unified retinue rules (with more choices) for all. Details on the Marine chapters that have long serving oaths to the inquisition.

Anyway, that's my uninformed opinion. Your reality may vary.

[BuFFo]

The Sisters are their own army, employed by the Ecclesiarchy. They always have been, and even in C:WH they're equal partners with the Inquisition-- the agreement between the two organizations is one of mutual assistance, not of servitude.

My position in combining the two books into one has nothing to do with fluff.

When I open both the WH and GK books, I see that they currently share a ton of units. If you would strip out those units, sure, the Sisters could still have their own book, but what about the GKs?

Sticking 5 GK units in with the Sisters, and giving them their own fluff section seems like the most economical way to go.

I loved I when Sisters had their own book. I own a 1500 point Sisters army I bought back in 1997 (still unpainted, but whatever), but that's not what I feel the game needs currently.

Its either combine both books into one, or expand on Grey knight and make them a fat codex army like everyone else, and I frankly don't see that ever happening.

So at the cost of Sisters getting their own book back once again, I wouldn't want Grey Knights to become a .pdf army on GWs website for 7 years.

I have nothing against Sisters and their fluff. I just want to make sure Grey Knights always have a home that isn't some deep corner on a website.

As for Xenos, frankly, I couldn't care less. Its been 7 years since rumors about a Xenos book was coming out. It isn't going to happen, so I dropped that dream a long time ago. Its only Grey Knights and Sisters as far as I am concerned.

[BuFFo]

Yeah right guys.... Keep that fantasy alive!

I am still waiting on Ordos Xenos getting their book. I hear it should come out late 2004 according to the latest rumors.

Whoever was the brain genius that decided on the whole "Three Codex" idea was an idiot. Sisters should have kept their own book and Grey Knights should have joined the Space Marine codex. I don't know what this Inquisition junk was about in the first place. And Ordos Xenos? What a joke.

Fact is, we are stuck with two crappy books, and I fail to ever see GW setting aside the capital to expand the Grey Knights into their own book. Would it be nice? Yeah, but with their wallet on the mind, GW will most likely stick both books into one.

[Melissia]

Can we please stay on topic? We alerady have the mods watching the thread.


Buffo: It would be more economical in the long term to give both armies what they deserve. Properly expanding them and giving them proper codices instead of one inevitably craptacular combined codex is infinitely preferable in the long term, attracting players to the two armies over a longer period of time along with more purchases because they are more fleshed out. You know they will make us wait another couple editions before they do another codex again, so while we wait we need something GOOD to play with, not just some haphazardly mashed together crap. If the Grey Knights must be combined with the Inquisition to keep a proper codex size, then let them take a certain amount of Sisters or Guard allies if they have an Inquisitor and make it a Daemonhunters codex. No matter your arguments, I will not want to settle for less.

[Renegade]

@ Faultie: After having a Mod already having commented on this thread, my humour has been very off. Reading back I can see your comment were in jest, but time and a place, and that comment straight after Jwolf, was bad timing to get a laugh.

@ Buffo: I have seen some very good fan codices for the different ordos, and the GK have been filled out well in those enough to make them a stand alone. I cant really see DW/XH being a stand alone, but then I dont think I have read enough about them.

That said, I can totally understand where you are coming from. GK and SoB in one book and =][= in another could work. Not sure the SoB fans would agree though.

Come on GW let slip some rumours where your taking these.

[Renegade]

Double post.

[Madness]

The Grey Knights don't act alone, unless they get retconned hard, they will be a militant "branch" of the Ordo Malleus. So a GK codex with no inquisition is out of discussion bar lorerape.

GW justified Ecclesiarchy being merged with Ordo Hereticus because they have common intrests, acceptable enough if you ask me, even tho the Ecclesiarchy has enough material to stand on its own.

The Inquisition has NO army (GK are the exception, Deathwatch marines are 'loaned'), it just relinquishes whatever it wants.

We already have an example of a recent(ish) codex with units borrowed from another army, Chaos Space Marines using Daemons, that's a likely template for the new inquisition codices (if any).

[Lerra]

The rumors about 3-4 Ecclesiarchy leader/HQ style models lead me to believe that there will not be a combined inquisition codex. I can't image there would be room for those models plus everything else in a mega-codex . I see Sisters+Ecclesiarchy and Grey Knights+Inquisitors as a logical way of organizing things. I don't expect GW to double up on rules like they did with Inquisitors in the 3rd Ed codices - that seems like a waste when they can introduce new rules with new models to buy.

[pchappel]

To my knowledge, the Grey Knights are:

2 HQ, 1 Elite, 1 Troops, 1 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support (five if you include all Land Raider variants)

Eh, the HQ are just the 2 levels of CPT/GM and the Fast Attack is the Troops with the teleport option :) Neat, but nothing like the variety of the Sisters or Inq... Just saying that the Knights, barring a major expansion, are the least likely to have reason for a major "stand alone" book and could be easily added into something else...

[entendre_entendre]

my preference:
Codex: Sister of Battle
Codex: Inquisition

SoB has enough to stand on its own, just needs fleshing out, as right now it's almost 2 dimensional ;)

codex =I= would have the GK, Deathwatch, etc.
within it you would have the 3 Ordos and a variety of units to accompany them (IST, Bug Hunters, or w/e) your Ordos would be decided on by picking it on your HQ Inquisitor (with differing statlines & wargear *cough* Daemon Hammers *cough*).
it would have a codex CSM 3.5-style chart detailing the various ordos and what units various Ordos cannot take unless a second =I= HQ is taken (e.g. no GK for witch hunters without a DH HQ).

codex =I= would be the one with the allies rules allowing the =I= to join other Imperial armies on the TT. my preference would be =I= in other armies rather than other armies in =I= armies, as i think the fluff would be more justified, but that's just me.

the =I= should definitely have a radical section detailing unique units and accompanying fluff section describing how an Inquisitor falls from puritan to radical.

[therealjohnny5]

*DT puts on his Melissia-proof vest*

Things are gonna get crazy in here...

lol

i say, GK + =][= is good, and sisters should get their own expanded and loved on codex. But then i also think that it makes a bit more sense for all SM chapters to be lumped into one megadex...and i suppose that makes me certifiable....:)

[DarkLink]

Its either combine both books into one, or expand on Grey knight and make them a fat codex army like everyone else, and I frankly don't see that ever happening.


Rumors seem to indicate a Grey Knight codex.


W
Codex: Grey Knights
But only if more units are added. Do they have scouts? They need techmarines (as I recently saw in a special game 3000 pts vs 3 random stompas), access to the "regular" marine vehicles (or a reason why not)

Grey Knights don't use Neophytes in battle, because they haven't completed their psychic training and such. And when they have completed it, they're too bad@$$ to be mere scouts, and just go straight into full service.

There's plenty of room for expanding the Grey Knights, but we don't need copied and pasted units from the vanilla Marine codex. We're Grey Knights, not Grey Marines. We can do stuff no other SM Chapter can hope to accomplish, and there's plenty of room to add in new units that reflect that.


Eh, the HQ are just the 2 levels of CPT/GM and the Fast Attack is the Troops with the teleport option :) Neat, but nothing like the variety of the Sisters or Inq... Just saying that the Knights, barring a major expansion, are the least likely to have reason for a major "stand alone" book and could be easily added into something else...

Like I said, lots of room for expansion. Tweak the Brother Captain into a chaplain/librarian style HQ for uniqueness, differentiate the teleport squad from troop squads more, add in jetbikes (rumored to be true, standard caveats apply), make up an elite(er) non-terminator unit or two and you've got a decent list of units right there. And that's just off the top of my head. GW's bound to come up with some crazy stuff to fill in the rest.

Edit: When I say Chaplain/Librarian style HQ, I mean a 2 wound model with special rules, not specifically a Chaplain/Librarian. Every Grey Knight has the faith of a Chaplain, and the psychic skills of a Librarian.

[pchappel]

:) Hoping you are right on the expansion of the Knights... a lot of room, like you say...

[murrburger]

I think that either the Inquisition should be completely cut as an army and to allow Sisters and Grey Knights their own book. Or, more conservatively... just make them an elites choice in both books.

Either way, they should not be the focus. It felt like GW was dredging up some crap from 1st/2nd/Inquisitor to release some half-assed 3rd edition books. (Which, to my memory, all of which were, due to the huge rule shift from 2nd)

I remember when Grey Knights were just Terminators, and had storm bolters on their sticks. I would love to see them evolve further.

[BuFFo]

Rumors seem to indicate a Grey Knight codex.

If this is true, then maybe it will be a split book, like it is now.

Interesting... Hopefully GW makes GKs playable, and any new Sister units playable as well.

[Aegis]

I think that either the Inquisition should be completely cut as an army and to allow Sisters and Grey Knights their own book. Or, more conservatively... just make them an elites choice in both books.

Either way, they should not be the focus. It felt like GW was dredging up some crap from 1st/2nd/Inquisitor to release some half-assed 3rd edition books. (Which, to my memory, all of which were, due to the huge rule shift from 2nd)

I remember when Grey Knights were just Terminators, and had storm bolters on their sticks. I would love to see them evolve further.Actually, the big reason was that they had just released Inquisitor, and was riding on the euphoria of that project. Sadly, neither the game, nor its spin off into 40k really took off. A shame too, as I really loved the rule set of Inquisitor, but the restriction of scale was a pain. Though, completely possible to play it on the 40k scale, which is, in my opinion, much more fun.

[murrburger]

Well... there's always Dark Heresy. : )

I never played Inquisitor with models, anyways. They're too damn expensive, and the range isn't big enough. Like you said, I wish it was on the same scale as 40K.

[Aegis]

Well... there's always Dark Heresy. : )

I never played Inquisitor with models, anyways. They're too damn expensive, and the range isn't big enough. Like you said, I wish it was on the same scale as 40K.

The Inquisitor models were gorgeous. I still have my Covenant model on display, and I want to pick up Eisenhorn at some point. As far as the scale issue goes, it is easy enough to scale them down.

[mysterex]

One of the problems you'd have with multiple codexes is that you're likely to be waiting a lot longer for your chosen army to get a new codex when the rules changed. Consequently they'll fall farther behind competitively and get less model releases.

The current ones are a case in point - they were written for third edition rules (which is why an Inquistor's transport land raider does not get the Assault Vehicle rule).

I doubt that the inquisition forces regardless as whether they appear in three separate codexes or just one are ever going to be treated as anything other than a third tier army in terms of the development attention the get.

But at least if they're in one codex then at least they may get more attention.

[Denzark]

I think logistically a united codex would be the one GW would be least likely to f8ck up. I support all these armies and would love single codexes but am realistic, I would only have 3 wishes:

1. Arbites! Bring the law.

2. An inquisitor should be able to task an army with groups from all imperial forces - so Marines, Sisters, IG, and Arbites. A man that can have a planet destroyed without any further recourse to higher comand has the power to do this.

3. Daemonhosts should be less unpredictable and actually so good that, when they appear, the opponent soils themselves in fear. I would happily pay as much as a Bloodthirster to make something a little more Cherubael-esque. Maybe a daemon weapon to a la slaves to darkness?