Chaos daemons

[marineboy]

can you go undivided with Chaos Daemons

[Nabterayl]

The codex allows for that, yes, by allowing you to take daemons of all four gods in a single army, and by including one or two daemons that are not god-specific.

[B_Steele]

Unfortunately...yes.

[Lerra]

For a balanced all-comers list, you have to go mixed Gods. It's pretty much standard to run Undivided Chaos lists.

[eagleboy7259]

If you mean, can you run an army using only unmarked units such as Soul Grinders, Demon Princes, and Furies thats a no. There are no HQ or Troops choices that do not belong to a specific god.

[Crimthaan]

Pretty much what everone else has said...in order to field a competative list with Daemons you need to go undivided. Using a single Gods daemons will limit your opions SEVERLY.

[Dreg Warpspawn]

Hi Marineboy!

Yes, though previous fluff indicated there were bitter rivalries between chaos deities, the 'norm' seems to be multi-powered daemon forces. In fact, the latest 40K daemon book recommends using a combination of 2 or more powers, as the designers have given different strengths and weaknesses to the minions of each specific power.

I play an all Slaaneshi force, and people were right, it's fragile as heck, but if everything goes right you can really eat up your opponants army. I think if I hadn't heard of 40Kaos until recently, I would be happy with a mixed army. There are fabulous models for each deity, even as a purist it's hard to resist buying some bloodletters or some Nurglesque monstrosities!

So, everyone is right, it's quite acceptable, though fluff buffs might tease you about it, to run a Chaos Undivided Chaos Daemon army:) Enjoy!

---Dreg

P.S. I highly recommend Daemonettes for your second wave rank and file. They are also fun to paint:)

[RogueGarou]

If, big IF, you want to build a fluffy army, Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals and Nurgle and Tzeentch are rivals. This goes back to Rogue Trader and the two Realms of Chaos books. Good books and definately worth the read for some cool ideas and fluff stories.

Anyway, there are a lot of ways to build a Daemons army. The only unit I have never fielded and have no real interest in is the Harpies. Everything else has uses and can be kind of cool. Some things are pricey but when your troops are cheap, that helps to offset that a bit. Plus, you do not have to field super powerful and expensive HQ choices. My Soul Grinders have a nasty habit of always getting killed on the opponents first turn. I have stopped giving them any weapon upgrades or just the phlegm attack. BS3 has only hit on the tongue attack one time in almost two years of fielding the big guy.

As pointed out above, the Grinder, Prince, and Harpies are the only Undivided models in the book. You are dealing with the Daemons of Chaos and until Malal or some other entity makes a comeback, you are not likely to see too many Undivided Daemons.

Most people throw fluff aside when building a Daemons army. I try to do some things when building a list to give a little character to the army, even if the guy across the table does not realize it is fluffy. I have tried mono-deity lists and they can be fun but you have drawbacks for doing that. I sometimes build lists without a rival faction in the list. That can also be fun to play. If nothing else, I almost always try to keep to the Sacred Numbers of the Chaos Gods for my squads. For example, 8 is Khorne's Sacred Number so I build Bloodletter and Flesh Hound units in multiples of 8 if at all possible. 6 for Slaanesh, 7 is Nurgle's number, and multiples of 9 for the Changer of the Way's kids. It has no effect in the game rulewise but it adds some flavor from the old days for me. Most of the time, I field the units I want to field at the time I build the list. Sometimes Chaos sees wisdom in this tactic, sometimes the Winds of the Warp punish me for offending one of the Dark Gods. :)

Just to satisfy any curiosity you may have as to WHY those particular rivalries were established, especially given Khorne's hatred of sorcerors. Nurgle is an embodiment of life and death and disease can be a changing of ways, but there is always the constant that life will beget death. That never changes which Tzeentch takes offense to being the Lord of Change and all that. Khorne hates magic users, true. But Khorne has a lot of hates. Like people obsessed with pleasure over martial prowess, cowards, and sensuality over carnage. Well, Slaanesh is the youngest of the Great Powers and Khorne is the oldest so there is bound to be some rivalry even if they did not have opposing views of things. Slaanesh would rather tempt a soldier to have a dalliance with some prince or princess than have the soldier take their skulls. That is the gist of things. Change and consistency don't mix and neither do opulence and carnage. Beyond fluff there is no reason to follow those guidelines now, though. I do tend to tailor my assault troops to what I am more likely going to face: Daemonettes for anything but Marines; Bloodletters to make Power and Terminator armored generals sweat a bit. No matter what you field, your troops are going to have a hard time dealing with armor, especially Dreadnoughts so watch out. Monstrous Creatures and Screamers are your best choice for opening those big tin cans.

[Melissia]

fortunately...yes.

Fixed. The Ruinous Powers are beyond comprehension by we mere mortals, and their designs sometimes overlap allowing them to fight together rather than against eachother for a few rare battles.

[BuFFo]

Hello Roguegarou and Dreg Warpspawn,

The fluff you state is no longer canon, and can be tossed in the corner with Squats and Kroot Mercs. In a continuing attempt at tying to fit as many models on the table top as possible, you can now field these once enemy chaos demons in a single army.

If we were to limit the kinds of models you could field, that would hurt GWs wallet, and we don't want that now, do we?



Thank you for your understanding,

GWs Botton Line

[Lerra]

If, big IF, you want to build a fluffy army, Khorne and Slaanesh are rivals and Nurgle and Tzeentch are rivals. This goes back to Rogue Trader and the two Realms of Chaos books. Good books and definately worth the read for some cool ideas and fluff stories.

If you go back far enough, don't the rivalries actually switch? Khorne and Tzeentch were rivals (Might vs. Magic) and Slaanesh and Nurgle were rivals (Beauty and Pleasure vs. Rot and Suffering). Or maybe that's from warhammer fantasy . . .

[Duke]

I always liked those traditional rivalries.

Duke

[eagleboy7259]

If you go back far enough, don't the rivalries actually switch? Khorne and Tzeentch were rivals (Might vs. Magic) and Slaanesh and Nurgle were rivals (Beauty and Pleasure vs. Rot and Suffering). Or maybe that's from warhammer fantasy . . .

I always thought it was allies rather than rivals, Khrone and Nurlge then Tzeentch and Slaanesh. In order for Demons to make it as their own book those rivalries had to go away. For the majority of the players using only 2-3 similar units in an entire army just isn't worth it.

[RogueGarou]

Some of the old rivalry stuff was fun. Kind of like the old Ork armies. When da plan worked, they were frightening. When it didn't, at least both players and anyone hanging around the table had some great laughs. Some of the older Daemon rules about rival daemons fighting each other were kind of cool. Also, it used to take a champion of unparalleled favor and power to unite daemons of different factions, rival or not. Someone like Horus or Abaddon could bring in forces from different Chaos Gods.

Unfortunately, the old Daemonic Instability rule meant that your daemons could manifest and then evaporate just as quickly. Like the Doomrider character from the 3E Chaos Space Marines Codex. Pay a lot of points and on a whim, he shows up and the next turn he may just go roaring off into the sunset. Oops, you weren't counting on that unit of Bloodletters to stick around, were you?

At least now they have their own Codex representing kind of a major influx of Warpspace into realspace. And Forge World keeps bringing back old things and items from Epic. Blood Slaughterers are back now and with a much cooler model than before. Cannons of Khorne, Plague Towers, Silver Towers of Tzeentch, perhaps we'll see the mysterious Chaos Power protecting Cypher someday. Probably not but still...

Anyway, there are some cool ideas in the old Chaos books for conversions and ideas for models. Back in Rogue Trader, each daemon was named, kind of like the initial offerings of Space Marines and Imperial Guardsmen. The Imperium had Private Bob and the Warp had Lustspittle. Less polite, more descriptive and you could take that idea to modeling froth and drool from the mouth of a Daemonette and making that the upgraded champion in a unit of Daemonettes. Have fun with your Daemons army and go as crazy as you want. I think it would be funny to have a model of Jason Lee from "Dogma" as the Changeling. Or any model meant to be Gary Oldman; he is the modern Man of a Thousand Faces and what better to represent the Changeling?