Dark Eldar Rumor Roundup

[eldargal]

Urgh, of all the archon models GW could have sculpted they went with the most boring possible option, well done. Hoping there is at least a helmet option, still a missed opportunity to give us a female archon.

also the legs are ridiculous. I hope someone has got wires crossed and its just a kitbash as well because it is incredibly underwhelming, less interesting than the Finecast archon and you can make better kitbashes really easily.

[Wolfrahm]

Huh? Ah hey guys, this is my void raven I built a couple of years ago. Does it look similar to y'all? Did I actually capture the idea they had when the concept was thought of a few years ago. I'm kinda humbled.
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11271&d=1411454948
11270

[Charon]

Hahaha omg, there was one thing I really disliked abouth the 5th ed revamp, and it was that they felt the need to have a bareheaded archon on the cover, and that not-to-my-tastes head he had. Ican't believe they actually made a model out of it!! xD

That being said I like that the Nosferatu/Vampire pose he's doing in the first picture is avaiible, but I wouldn't prefer it on my archon, personally. However I really, really, really, really, really, like the secon picture (the kitbashed one) It looooooks aawesome. adn eally shows of the possibilites for kitbashing, personalising and what you can really do with the kit. I like it, that pose is awesome once you realise it as a template for "sculpting your own Archon"... The possiblities. I will most definatley pick this kit up :) (Hope it comes also with a plastic version of my favorite Archon head (the goatlooking one). Seeing as it's on the cover, and the resemblance of the cloak on the model to the cloak on the cover, maybe there is hope for it. Well. We'll see, eventually :) )

Each to his own... I find the Gangsta Rapper Pose he strikes embarrassing and actually like the head way more than the "ssssssh, I try to pass as a tiny Fantasy Chaos Warrior" Goathead helmet.
Even with Kitbashing his Pose is incredible boring and static.

[OzDestro]

Hey guys,
not sure if I've found something here, but I was looking at the pics on Grot Orderly and it looks like the Voidraven has another option in the kit.
There's a few differences between the Voidraven on the top and the Voidraven underneath.

I could be wrong - but have a look and see what you think:
www.ozdestro.com/blog/does-the-dark-eldar-voidraven-have-a-second-option (http://www.ozdestro.com/blog/does-the-dark-eldar-voidraven-have-a-second-option)

[ursvamp]

Urgh, of all the archon models GW could have sculpted they went with the most boring possible option, well done. Hoping there is at least a helmet option, still a missed opportunity to give us a female archon.

I'm still holding out hope that we'll see a female model as well, the old female lord was excellent, I hope they make a new one based on that.
Mostly I guess I'm being optimistic, but I can't remember there being a release (since they started with weekly releases) with just one single plastic infantry-sized character. Seems they always release at least two when that is the case (Painboy and Mekboy for instance, or haemie and wracks), and since "Nobility" is plural I'm assuming (hoping, that is...) that we'll be seeing more than one model of a ruling commorrite.

@Charon:

Yeah, to each his own; Agree :D

[spagunk]

Hey guys,
I could be wrong - but have a look and see what you think:
www.ozdestro.com/blog/does-the-dark-eldar-voidraven-have-a-second-option (http://www.ozdestro.com/blog/does-the-dark-eldar-voidraven-have-a-second-option)

I'm pretty sure that's just a razorwing.

[StraightSilver]

Yeah, it's just a Razorwing.

[OzDestro]

Dang it - well a man can dream!!

Thanks guys (and gals)!!

[eldargal]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FzUGg7lvUbM/VCBX8yuQbRI/AAAAAAABPBI/UEra-9SKEnc/s1600/mH9e5sD.jpg
Wych squad in the front row to the right of the raider might be being led by the plastic succubus. Agoniser and spear but different pose and hair, just really teeny.

Also the archon kit may have options, or they may just be kitbashes:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K54f--bRz8c/VCCAjxRS1SI/AAAAAAABPCo/kGixcWKVYu4/s1600/Archon.jpg
Not sure where I got this picture from, sorry to whomever it was posted by.

[AirHorse]

Quite looking forward to this launch!!

I so nearly started a Dark Eldar army when they were previously released! (Still have the pair of raiders, warriors squad, wych squad and archon I got!!)!

Unfortunately my time ended up more precious, but the newest codex might be enough to kickstart things again, especially considering I don't need to make an actual purchase beyond the book to get going :D

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Not too impressed by that Archon - and yeah, id like to see a female one too. The DE range has been pretty good for gender equality...

[Charon]

Point cost seems to have stayed roughly the same if both of the armies are 3000 points. I love how the Imperial player tries to build an army which can make the Dark Eldar look good by not choosing any "efficient" units.

[daboarder]

Point cost seems to have stayed roughly the same if both of the armies are 3000 points. I love how the Imperial player tries to build an army which can make the Dark Eldar look good by not choosing any "efficient" units.

at least you guys aren't likely to lose your inaugural report despite having twice the points and a damned gargantuan creature in the list. Though that doesnt bode well for the book much either

[eldargal]

GW battle reports have never had optimised army lists, not sure why people still act like this is some kind of conspiracy. They pick units they like and they play a practise match and the new release army doesn't always win.

http://i.imgur.com/L4X5X7V.jpg
It's obviously a terrible picture but I'm almost certain this is a new sculpt. Also not sure GW have kitbashes in the studio army very often?

[Mr Mystery]

Looks new to me.

I don't think it's a Hellion weapon, as there's no blade visible on the far end.

[Charon]

GW battle reports have never had optimised army lists, not sure why people still act like this is some kind of conspiracy. They pick units they like and they play a practise match and the new release army doesn't always win.

There is a big difference between "optimised" and totally stay away from any weapon that gives a bad feeling to the Dark Eldar Player. Thats like going "Today we show Mikes new Imperial Knight army against Rhondas Eldar. Rhonda told us she totally likes Banshees and Rangers and took so many of them that she completely forgot to bring any Fusion, Haywire or Lance Weapons."

@ Picture:
New Mini. I dont recognise the hairstyle and I think there is no right handed Agonizer (thats all pistols). Also the Finecast Succubus disappeared from Store a while ago.

[eldargal]

It's virtually identical to the metal/Finecast succubus spear (maybe lacks the tassel), which makes sense. The agoniser seems to be new, the only right handed agoniser came with the succubus and it is a different position entirely. Given the lack of old Succubus I think it must be a new plastic succubus.


There is a big difference between "optimised" and totally stay away from any weapon that gives a bad feeling to the Dark Eldar Player. Thats like going "Today we show Mikes new Imperial Knight army against Rhondas Eldar. Rhonda told us she totally likes Banshees and Rangers and took so many of them that she completely forgot to bring any Fusion, Haywire or Lance Weapons."

@ Picture:
New Mini. I dont recognise the hairstyle and I think there is no right handed Agonizer (thats all pistols). Also the Finecast Succubus disappeared from Store a while ago.
That example is quite hyperbolic, neither list is that bad and we don't know what new DE rules may change certain units effectiveness.

The hairstyle also looks new, but the old succubus had a right handed agoniser but its an entirely different shape.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110622051909/warhammer40k/images/3/33/DESuccubus.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

I'm going with new.

There's a hair like tassle (fnarr) leading off from the blade and going across the body. The end of the polearm is a different shape (almost Slaaneshi I'd say), and the body is in a more dynamic, pouncing pose.

[Charon]

That example is quite hyperbolic, neither list is that bad and we don't know what new DE rules may change certain units effectiveness.

I really dont think that there are any new rules which will help against ignore cover autocannons, lots of Templates (with torrent) and ignore cover, shred, barrage, twinlinked weapons. So they picked a minimum in 3k points.
Dont get me wrong. Im all in with "nice" lists but even in 1500 points I face multiple Wyverns, Autocannons and Flamers of any kind (god I hate that "no escape" rule) while this list tries to stay away from that stuff and instead focuses on units that DE can shine against (Scions, Ogryns)

Would not be terrible surprised if the Report ends with the imperials tabled or nearly tabled.

[Mr Mystery]

Going on a slight tangent.

Did no escape get cleared up with vehicle invulnerable saves?

[Krayd]

Going on a slight tangent.

Did no escape get cleared up with vehicle invulnerable saves?

Not that I am aware of.

I'm really hoping that they revise flickerfields to do something about no escape, though.

[Mr Mystery]

I agree.

It's not that the rule itself is unclear - it's quite clearly silent on the matter.

I feel that a passed Inv save for the vehicle should protect the passengers, on account the entire shot is saved. But that's just one of three possible options...

1. As above (one saved, all saved)
2. Wounds always distributed, but passengers each get Inv save equal to their sweet ride's Inv save
3. ROASTY TOASTY NO SAVE FOR YOU!

Arguably, 2 is the most logical, but 1 or 3 are the most simple!

I shall email the rulesboyz about that one! (well, the FAQ and Errata team anyways). Though might hold off until the new Codex is out - that might just clear it up with wording for the flickerfield!

[Charon]

RAW ist 100% clearly 3.

The condition is the template touching the vehicle. It will fulfill this condition regardless of any save for the vehicle. You cant save vs "touch".

Also "no escape"


...that unit suffers D6 hits, resolved at the Strength and AP of the weapon.
The unit suffers the hits, so it gets is save which is stated in its profile. You dont go and check the vehicles profile for that.
Not much room for interpretation.

[Michael Paul Smith]

I hope the Baron doesn't get ditched! I finally got around to converting one a few months back.

[Victus Mortecarium]

I bought a battleforce months ago in anticipation.

[Havik110]

GW battle reports have never had optimised army lists, not sure why people still act like this is some kind of conspiracy. They pick units they like and they play a practise match and the new release army doesn't always win.

http://i.imgur.com/L4X5X7V.jpg
It's obviously a terrible picture but I'm almost certain this is a new sculpt. Also not sure GW have kitbashes in the studio army very often?

IM going with new myself...Looks to me like she is running, leading with the spear with the agoniser behind her, similar to lilith's pose...Just based off the shape, I likey a lot...

[daboarder]

GW battle reports have never had optimised army lists, not sure why people still act like this is some kind of conspiracy. They pick units they like and they play a practise match and the new release army doesn't always win.

http://i.imgur.com/L4X5X7V.jpg
It's obviously a terrible picture but I'm almost certain this is a new sculpt. Also not sure GW have kitbashes in the studio army very often?

Sure, I remember the fail that was the Chaos space marines rocking one of each cult unit as troops in the BA book. That being said they also rarely need to be twice the points on one side to even make it playable.

Nice Wyche though.

Looks like they could be using DE to start churning out the plastic characters

[Havik110]

Sure, I remember the fail that was the Chaos space marines rocking one of each cult unit as troops in the BA book. That being said they also rarely need to be twice the points on one side to even make it playable.

Nice Wyche though.

Looks like they could be using DE to start churning out the plastic characters

i bet theyve had most of these models for a while...relabeled duke and malys type deal...

[Agramar]

Sure, I remember the fail that was the Chaos space marines rocking one of each cult unit as troops in the BA book. That being said they also rarely need to be twice the points on one side to even make it playable.

Nice Wyche though.

Looks like they could be using DE to start churning out the plastic characters

I think is a new model.The finecast succubus is no longer on sale

[daboarder]

but the archon is. Though the resin haemonculus is gone

[Brother Sutek]

They might release models for some of them. Wouldn't be sad to see Kheradruakh go though, mediocre character with uninteresting background in my opinion. Mandakes work better as weird faceless ethereal things, not giving them names and backstories.


After the change in fluff for Necrons I think GW wants more character and less faceless evil. I agree with you but stupid changes happen. I would never have thought we'd see "chatty" Necrons but...

[Agramar]

but the archon is. Though the resin haemonculus is gone

So..the new archon is a character,perhaps

[ursvamp]

but the archon is. Though the resin haemonculus is gone

Well, the resin haemi didn't dissapear until the new one went up for preorder. So it would be safe to assume the current Archon will last about until then, too.

[Agramar]

Habemus Sucubus,from Italy:
http://astropate.blogspot.com/2014/09/nuovi-eldar-oscuri-dettagli-sul.html

[deathadder]

the wargear section of the bomber in that link looks interesting. Dark scythes? new name for void lances or completely different? And a void mine taking out 10 guardsman, does that mean its now large blast?

[Prodigalson]

I love that it has another window pane under it like that. I didn't realize that from the other photo. I already wanted one, but it's bought now. I'll be preordering the bomber as the only starting model.

[Bigred]

via Khaine Mor (http://www.thedarkcity.net/t9912p380-our-codex-is-confirmed-summary-as-of-sept-24-in-op) of The Darkcity


Dark Eldar Week 3 Releases

Week 3, Pre order on the 4th : (October)

-Plastic Archon, multiple options from what I've seen so far, I've seen a lot of bitz I've never seen before on any other kit. I know kabalites or wyches won't be updated, meaning those bitz can only come with the archon.

-New Succubus, if you check the picture you can see a succubus with the same weapons as the old one, the same arms, but everything else is different. Now plastic or finecast, unsure. This could also be a conversion, however I know for a fact a new Succubus will be released.

- Vect + Dais, third big release: you can get very excited for this one:
0 pictures yet, 0 clue what it will look like, I'm expecting something extremely awesome. Vect is a lord of war btw.

BTW another interesting bit on apoc battle report: all dark eldar get FnP on turn 3, fearless on turn 5. A global power from pain it seems...

[deathadder]

we seem to have a lot of leaks from white dwarf, but they seem to have the codex pretty locked tight. only seen the cover, no inside rules or anything

[StraightSilver]

I have to say that army wide buffs similar to Power from Pain will make life a lot easier than having to dish out pain tokens but I hope PfP hasn't gone entirely.

But FnP across the board from Turn 3 and then other turn based buffs sounds like a good idea.

However that does kind of go against the "hit 'em hard and fast" ethos of the Dark Eldar, and seems to suggest that holding a lot of stuff back in reserves will be the way to go.

Interesting that the plastic Archon appears to be a named character (Khadys Abrahak) of the Iron Thorn, who are pretty much Asdrubael Vect's main enemies in the fluff.

The Iron Thorn however control the psy-lotus? So could this be Duke Sliscus' equivalent?

[Charon]

Maybe they rename it to "Power from Waiting" ?

[Mr Mystery]

we seem to have a lot of leaks from white dwarf, but they seem to have the codex pretty locked tight. only seen the cover, no inside rules or anything

Expect those from Monday onwards.

The pics we're seeing are from tomorrow's issue of WD. The pre-order being discussed is next week's White Dwarf.

It's a bit like a dull episode of Dr Who!

[Erik Setzer]

However that does kind of go against the "hit 'em hard and fast" ethos of the Dark Eldar, and seems to suggest that holding a lot of stuff back in reserves will be the way to go.

In play style, that's likely going to be the result, but in terms of fluff, you could justify it by saying that the more the Dark Eldar engage someone and blood is flowing, the more they get wrapped up in the moment, with the buffs coming from their increasing fervor as the battle goes on.

That said... The person is trying to figure something out from a battle report, and those are notoriously light on details. So the actual mechanic could be that as you do more damage with your army as a whole, the whole army gains buffs, reveling in each other's slaughter of their foes. And in the batrep, you could be seeing the buffs hitting on various turns, leading people to believe it's a buff-by-turn-number setup.

Gonna have to wait for that codex, it seems.

[DrLove42]

I guess either PfP is still in but its by army not unit, amd it just took them a few turns to get the requisite kills.

Or its an asset. Or an alternate FoC benefit that earns it automatically for units that havent got it already

[DrLove42]

Codex up for sale.

And i bought an Archon edition. Cos im a sucker for shinyness

[Kirsten]

I want the bomber. really I want the bomber and two fighters...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The bomber looks good to me, the cockpit with the detail on the glass section is an especially nice bit!

[Kirsten]

very

[daboarder]

Whelp.

Word is Vect is in the trash with Malys, Baron, Duke and Decapitator

[DrLove42]

Whelp.

Word is Vect is in the trash with Malys, Baron, Duke and Decapitator

If true its a wierd thing. Itd be like cutting Eldrad or Ghazgull just cos the model is old...

[UberTek]

Google translate of German site claiming to have the codex (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.40kings.de/2014/09/der-dark-eldar-codex-ist-da-qna-den-kommentaren/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.40kings.de/2014/09/der-dark-eldar-codex-ist-da-qna-den-kommentaren/%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DWKx%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26channel%3Dnp)

[The Sovereign]

Whelp.

Word is Vect is in the trash with Malys, Baron, Duke and Decapitator

VERY much hoping this rumor turns out to be false. As an avid DE player, Vect was what I was most looking forward to with the update. This codex will be severely lacking without him, both fluff and crunch-wise.

[daboarder]

VERY much hoping this rumor turns out to be false. As an avid DE player, Vect was what I was most looking forward to with the update. This codex will be severely lacking without him, both fluff and crunch-wise.

Its looking more and more like its not false.

[Power Klawz]

Its looking more and more like its not false.


Calling shenanigans. He's really one of only a few DE characters with any real substance. He's been around since the first inception of the dark eldar and is the de facto "racial leader." He's not going anywhere.

SM's: None of the predefined chapter masters went anywhere, and papa smurf is still large and in charge.
Dark Angels: Still the same old model for Azrael, he's still in the dex.
CSM: Abaddon is still an armless failure and he's still in the dex.
Tyranids: The lord of swarms still feasts on the unwary, even though he got nerfed.
Imperiastramilitatusfornicatuswtfbbq: Creed is still a tactical genius. (Although I'm sad that they never brought back Lord Solar Macharius.)
Eldar: Eldrad is still a dick
Daemons: all the named greater daemons came back despite some of them not having any models.
Tau: Everyone came back, farsight and Aun'Va are still no longer facebook friends.
Wolfy Wolves: Big daddy wolf got a new model with 70% more wolfs per wolf.
Orks: Ghazgkull can still punch out a titan with his model that is older than some people in college.
Grey knights: Draigo is still around and is still "that guy."

If Vect went the way of the dodo it would set a completely irrational precedent. Yes unit types and named characters have been removed from previous dexes over the years, but never has The Main Guy been removed once he has been established in lore and stats. Removing units that do not have models to support their rules was an obvious (and admittedly dickish) maneuver to avoid IP infringement from third party miniatures, it has a reason to be. But removing Vect who is already well established in physical model form would be asinine. Especially when the work to revamp him could be as simple or as elaborate ad the design team wanted. You could just redo the model and plop him in a raider, or you could make him another "big kit" for the Dark Eldar release, or you could literally do nothing and hey, he still exists anyways.

If this "rumor" turns out to be right I'll eat my hat. Of course I don't own a hat but you get the gist of it.

[daboarder]

If this "rumor" turns out to be right I'll eat my hat. Of course I don't own a hat but you get the gist of it.

I'll buy you one to see that

[The Sovereign]

I will say that Vect was still mentioned as the leader of the DE in the new WD, which means they're not totally sweeping him under the rug. I'm holding out hope. Hopefully I won't be massively disappointed. :(

[deathadder]

If Vect goes, I dunno what they will do for 'new shiney' other than the bomber...which will have to be very good to get taken, I think. I dont know about the rest of you, but I'm only half excited about the bomber for two reasons. 1)we've been waiting for it since the old codex came out 2) It looks almost exactly like every kitbashed Voidraven on the internets. Vect would be giving Dark Eldar their own lord of war, instead of having to share the revenant titan (which I feel bad taking because its so amazing)

[Charon]

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/codex-dark-eldar-enhanced/id921973285?mt=11

Preview.
Picture of the new plastic succubus and a picture of the codex.

No LoW Slot.
HQ: Archon, Court of the Archon, Succubus, Lelith, Haemonculus, Urien, Drazahr

WTF GW?!

[daboarder]

well they managed they really did, they have sunk lower than I actually ever thought even remotely possible, Poor DE players, you poor fools.


In other news it should once again be a laugh reading the jsutifications for this by those "positive" members of the community.

Hey who knows, maybe there will be a supplement with new/updated models and rules for the special character.....you know, like has been used as a justification/wishlist since Iyanden, but has never actually happened.


edit: succubus is nice though

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Maybe his rules will come in his box, seems to be a thing nowadays.

Also, you can't insult people for being positive, that's really sh!t.

[daboarder]

Maybe his rules will come in his box, seems to be a thing nowadays.

Also, you can't insult people for being positive, that's really sh!t.

yeah, so I wouldn't call the firestorm and vengeance batteries common....

As to the other comment, that discussion has been done, you might even still find the thread, things have been slow around here lately

[Hal]

I just don't understand why they decided to update already existing models (ones that really didn't need an overhaul imo) instead of finishing the missing ones... Where is the logic behind it?! Especially if you're missing the main character? Looks like GW is really trying hard to suck the joy out of everyone..
Poor DE players.. But I guess that's what you get when you play those nasty little f&$#ers... Pain and misery.. :P

[eldargal]

Don't care about Vect, more annoyed about Malys. On the brightside, one third of the DE special characters are women now.:rolleyes: Succubus looks amaze:
http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication1/v4/c2/dd/44/c2dd4485-ef4a-2f1b-68c8-f7aa9d052f02/IMG_0201.480x480-75.jpg


Managed to resist buying an archon edition, I think I'm growing as a person.

Ok I lied I bought an archon edition.><

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

As to the other comment, that discussion has been done, you might even still find the thread, things have been slow around here lately

I wonder why...

[eldargal]

I said ages ago I didn't think Vect would be getting a model and would be dropped and no one believed me. #smug.

Rules rumours look interesting, losing flickerfield is **** if accurate, but nightshields giving stealth is pretty good. Wyches get 3 special weapons per team which is nice, wonder what Bloodbrides will get?

Edit: Really happy with rules rumours so far actually, 3+ jinks, mandrakes being good, deep strike on all vehicles, boost to wyches as above. happy.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Mandrakes being good in what respect?

The Dark Lord being dropped would be tripe. No one else has lost their big major character, even if the model is super old. Then again, I probably wouldn't use him anyway. The Beggar Prince is a much better character. (the Dark Eldar Archon from our roleplay sessions)

@eldargal, you'd probably like his daughter Haestra, she is an amazing character.

[daboarder]

I wonder why...

No idea, there was a thread about that too though

- - - Updated - - -



Ok I lied I bought an archon edition.><

Congratulations, it does look stunning.

GW really has figured out a very good way of making the limited eds feel special, with the box, tokens and limt Ed Supplements rolled in as well.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Was there a thread about the thread about the thread?

[daboarder]

Was there a thread about the thread about the thread?

I should certainly hope so, it wouldn't be a thread about that thread, without there being a thread about that thread about the first thread.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Wow I am so glad that I missed them.

But this is off-topic. What's this about Mandrakes?

[Houghten]

GW really has figured out a very good way of making the limited eds feel special, with the box, tokens and limt Ed Supplements rolled in as well.

I'm absolutely loving the separate-sheet unit cards in this one.

I'm glad I'm not trying to collect all the Limited Editions though; they wouldn't look very consistent as a set!

(also I wish they'd thought of the cards three codexes ago; da boyz would have loved it)

[DrLove42]

I said ages ago I didn't think Vect would be getting a model and would be dropped and no one believed me. #smug.

Rules rumours look interesting, losing flickerfield is **** if accurate, but nightshields giving stealth is pretty good. Wyches get 3 special weapons per team which is nice, wonder what Bloodbrides will get?

Edit: Really happy with rules rumours so far actually, 3+ jinks, mandrakes being good, deep strike on all vehicles, boost to wyches as above. happy.

Bit concerned about them. 3+ jink is all well and good except it neuters that vehicles shooting for a turn and most armies out there have more Ignores Cover than nor.al guns these daya...

Either way, Archon edition bought, bring on next weekend

[Defenestratus]

Bit concerned about them. 3+ jink is all well and good except it neuters that vehicles shooting for a turn and most armies out there have more Ignores Cover than nor.al guns these daya...

Either way, Archon edition bought, bring on next weekend
Plus. .. no vector dancer. Nightwings will be chewing these things up.

[Charon]

Never understood Supersonic anyways.
The "must move at least..." is a huge disadvantage for flyers as it makes their movement predictable and gets them in bad angles/from the table faster.
Why would I want a "special rule" and pay points for it to make this happen faster?

[eldargal]

Wyches inv save says it works against all wounds in the Fight Sub Phase.

Dark Scythes are 24" S8 AP2 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance

Liquifier guns are still in the book but they're S3 now, still D6
ap.

Raiders and Venoms are both 55 points base.

Allied wraithguard yeah its a nice combo, with the webway portal you dont scatter.
Archons, succubus and haemonculus all can have it (35 points)
From Faeit, source with codex apparently.

I'm not sure what the point of the wych dodge saving work on all wounds in teh fight sub phase, that is basically what it already does? The only change would be if it works against Overwatch in the charge sub phase

[Charon]

I'm not sure what the point of the wych dodge saving work on all wounds in teh fight sub phase, that is basically what it already does? The only change would be if it works against Overwatch in the charge sub phase

Overwatch, Vehicle explosions in melee. Did not work against both of them before.

[eldargal]

It really works against Overwatch now? That's a pretty huge boost. It's been ages since I played 7th ed so I'm kind of hazy on what's what.

[Charon]

Dont know. But going from your wording (all wounds in fight subphase) it does exactly that.

[eldargal]

Well that's the rumour from someone allegedly with the codex. Big boost for wyches if true.

Couldn't do something like that for Howling Banshees though, Dodge save and counting vehicles as assault vehicles or something noo that would b too much grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble...

[Charon]

Couldn't do something like that for Howling Banshees though, Dodge save and counting vehicles as assault vehicles or something noo that would b too much grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble...

Banshees already have a 4+ save in EVERY phase. Also you can put them in Raiders/Venoms to get assault vehicles.
And last but not least Eldar got good rules across the board. Everything I keep hearing from Dark Eldar rumors is getting rid of characters and nerf across the board.

[eldargal]

4+ isn't that good, too many low AP weapons and I shouldn't need to take allies to make an assault unit not quite so terrible. But getting off topic.

Really not seeing any significant nerfs to Dark Eldar beyond losing a few characters which is a shame.

[Charon]

4+ isn't that good, too many low AP weapons

In the melee phase (cuase this is the only phase the wyches save works)? The one powerfist/sword cause you a headache? Im rather afraid of that 20 Bolter shots coming your way where banshees still get 4+ while wyches die rather quick.


Really not seeing any significant nerfs to Dark Eldar beyond losing a few characters which is a shame.

Already heard Wyches losing haywire, beast packs max model count of 12, khymera daemons (5++) now, Reavers losing bladevanes and gain S4 HoW instead, Cannons becoming Salvo, Trueborn as an upgrade for Kabalites (so minimum of 5), Voidraven AV10 all around.

[Belial69]

On the plus side, if the codex follows the wolves and greyknights, raiders and venoms will become a selection in there own right. Open topped assaulting for battle Bros! Those banshees and scorpions can start in the raider, deep strike in and assault turn three. Or start on the table, rip halfway across going flat out, jink and assault turn 2 😁

[eldargal]

I haven't seen anything about wyches losing haywire, and the rest of those aren't particularly major and could be more balanced in context that we currently lack (assuming the minimum for kabalites will be 5+ for example).

Wyches being shot is always bad, get them into combat though (and iwth super fast open topped transports it isn't hard) then Overwatch is the main worry in my experience and if this rumour is true it becomes half as effective. I forget the numbers but Banshees being shot by 20 bolter shots still reduces their killing capacity dramatically and they cost a lot more than wyches especially when you factor in a transport.

[Bigred]

via 40Kings (http://www.40kings.de/2014/09/der-dark-eldar-codex-ist-da-qna-den-kommentaren/)9-26-2014

via Google Translate (from German, you will note some odd turn of phrases):

Gentlemen, this time there is really a premature birth. Rumor has it that quite a few people outside the HQs in Nottingham there that have the Codex Dark Eldar are on your desk. It's also said that this people want to present even a few interesting facts about the new Codex ... Below you will find a first estimate, based on rumors (!), Which are to me so came from here and there to ears.



Style of the Codex:

In principle, such as the new Grey Knights - no new units, loss of some known units for which there are no models, few new rules and basically a rehash of known with a few small changes here and there. Is that bad? No, not necessarily. DE Codex has always been moody and also the last issue had some charm. She was just not very strong game ... Is the new Codex game strong? I would say after the current rumors Location (!): Yes and no. A few gimmicks fall directly into the eye, but there is still no unity that could secure some form of stability or field presence. It remains questionable whether new gimmicks can make the really fat frying in the fire storm of colossi and Serpents ... But I've written anything yet!



Army-wide special rules:

Rumor had it already in the shady corners of the dark city. Power from Pain is a "vast army" become special rules, benefits from each model, that this special rule explicitly leads in profile - so all "normal" Dark Eldar units, Beast, Talos, etc. still do not. The special rule gives, depending on the running play special general rules on the quality FNP, Furious Charge, Rage, Fearless, etc. There may well be something out of it ... if not the support of these special rules would not necessarily be the most formidable representatives of the Codex. Some items or skills give bonuses to the number of moves, so that effects of turn 3, for example, already can enter turn 2.

The Warlord table is very unspectacular. Fear, Hatred here and there, a bit of skill in battle or even a Reroll ... yawn. The funny thing is the "Combat Drug" table to the benefit of all models with Combat Drugs (surprise ...). All effects are central and even throwing dice for all units. The implications are kept very strictly: each one specific profile value is improved by one point.



Changes in the selections:

Some units will be sorely missed in the new Codex, some other losses will be hardly noticed. This radical cuts are really already been made:

Vect is not in the Codex - it will certainly be a supplement released
The Baron is not in the Codex - he will certainly NOT be a supplement released
The poison-Duke is not in the Codex
Remain at known BCMs: Drazhar (fairly static), Lelith (as) and Urien (as well)
Otherwise, the selections are pretty much identical to the previous Codex


Changes in the units themselves:

The main change in the units over the last infusion is probably that the Beast Pack now more than 12 models (of whatever type) must include and the chimeras are simply too "demons" become so only a 5 + ward save can call their own. The flocks of birds have only 3 LP, the Clawed Fiend has for a rich profile for moderate point cost (but no protection mechanism). Funny is also that Tali and Croni (gnihihi) can be used in units of 1-3 and now have generic FNP. Not bad at all.

In addition, now all vehicles automatically "shock troops" are.



New equipment and weapons:

Again: Something New, but a few interesting ideas. The relics of the Dark Eldar are located in the middle of the power scale. A few inconveniences for enemy psyker, a couple of problems for opponents with low morale (unless they are Space Marines ... na thank you) and a few weapons and armor. Nothing exceptional. 35 For there is but the new Webway portal for the Succubus or the Haemonculus that the carrier and its unit (!) Gives shock troops and no deviation in Schocken. This can some games. I have quite a few nasty combinations with this tool occurred.

Also in the vehicle equipment, there are tried and true: Moral reroll, twin-linked Splinter weapons of passengers, etc. But also exciting things such as "Stealth" for vehicles. A 5 + ward save Venom continues to have on board.

New weapons are rare. Some special equipment à la Helfrost gun that is singular to have on a platform, has crept in, for example, a 5.5 storm 2 24 inch small template for the Talos. The rocket bomber (which is unfortunately completely overpriced) have changed something and otherwise we still saw the expected change in the Splinter Canon to a 4.6 weapon salvos. Here and there there are new melee weapons with irrelevant properties, also a few other minor modifications of existing equipment were made - the Shredder has now ... Warning ... shred! Good choice!



Conclusion:

Based on the current situation rumors my first impression is bad, a lot of potential wasted. But: At least there's one or the other unit and combination, a small renaissance of the Dark Eldar will mean possibly that is set by the pure available goes from BCM. Unfortunately, the Codex is the currently chosen path away pretty consistently. Much is simplified and adapted a few general special rules is available as a spare. Thankfully, the old Codex quite interesting ... Now it's up to us to find the tournament players, the path in the network of a thousand gates, which will lead to a competitive Dark Eldar army. Quite simply, the be sure not to find. But excluded it is not safe.

[Charon]

Wow. So a sub par codex got nerfed across the board. Nice Job GW.
Need to read through the codex before I sell them on ebay for a better supported faction with more interesting rules. Sick and tired of that ****.

[Belial69]

How long before we're back to the content of the 3rd ed codices then? Or have we hit it?

[Mr Mystery]

Wait. Buy. Read. Play.

Then decide.

We have nothing to confirm the stuff above is all that accurate.

[Anggul]

I really hope it isn't as bad as it sounds.

Needing an entire supplement just for Vect is extreme BS.

[Charon]

It is actually WORSE. As I speak german I could browse through the comments where he answers questions and ask a few myself.

@ Mr Mystery
Please. I understand that you want to maintain a positive attitude. But you were wrong so many times. Till now everything was as bad or even worse than rumored. I dont see it getting better her.
3 ****ing SCs in the entire codex. 3 (!). No ****ing own LoW again. That is the BARE MINIMUM you expect from any codex.

[Defenestratus]

Man what a bunch of doom and gloomers.


only thing that I'd be really upset about is the fact that I haven't seen vector dancer being mentioned for any of the DE flyers yet.

[Charon]

Thats because they dont have it. Supersonic is still the rule. Besides, Voidraven is down to 10 AV all around, 160 Points without Missiles.

[daboarder]

It really works against Overwatch now? That's a pretty huge boost. It's been ages since I played 7th ed so I'm kind of hazy on what's what.

If it specifies "fight sub phase" then it wont work on overwatch, as thats not in the fight sub phase.

the rumour states its only for the fight sub phase

- - - Updated - - -


via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
combat drugs work very much the same as before with no feel no pain option. They are still random but give a +1 to the stats that really do help, +1attack, strength, inititiative, toughness, weapon skill, or leadership.

warlord traits seem a little hit or miss.
de within 12" have fear
can re-roll the dice for seize the initiative, for night fight, and reserves
warlord gets rage
warlord gets hatred
warlord gets +1 weapon skill
de within 12" have fearless

More news

[deathadder]

looking at it, I'm actually pretty pumped... Everyone is doom and gloom... 160pts is pretty steep, but two str 9 ap 2 blast markers and a bomb seems good. hits hard on tanks, but also nukes deep striking power armor/termie armor.
Will miss old combat drugs, things like "reroll to wound" and such was nice. At least you dont have the "extra dice for running" fail... and +1 toughness will be amazing for instant death on characters.
Warlord traits seem interesting. Having fear causing Incubi/wytches would be great... I dont get the +1 weapon skill...if you can get it with combat drugs.
Pain engines in trios looks really fun
Stealth looks amazing. Better than Eldar since it works turn 1. And with Jink not effecting passengers, I can see a lot of use for this.
I will however...be very sad if our jets dont get their 5+ invul anymore. It was good to not have to jink...

[eldargal]

Man what a bunch of doom and gloomers.


only thing that I'd be really upset about is the fact that I haven't seen vector dancer being mentioned for any of the DE flyers yet.

Yeah everything sounds pretty reasonable really, the German guy was basically just whining because it was more simplistic but I'd rather simplistic than convoluted and people used to whine about Kelly books being too complicated and inconsistent so whatever.

If it specifies "fight sub phase" then it wont work on overwatch, as thats not in the fight sub phase.

the rumour states its only for the fight sub phase


That is what I thought, but Charon said otherwise and I'm rusty on 7th ed rules.

[Bigred]

via warseer's barjed (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?400257-New-Wracks-and-Haemonculus-confirmed&p=7279526&viewfull=1#post7279526) 9-27-2014


- Huskblades are ap3, cheaper, not a relic
- Racks now work on all Splinter weapons
- Wych weapons nerfed. Hydras confer Shred, Razors reroll To Hit, Shardnet/Impaler reroll 1s on To Hit and To Wound
- Stun Claw is +1S, ap6, confers ID in challenge
- Shadow Field is more expensive
- Incubi are still ap2
- Torment Gren. Launchers can now be fired, 24", blast, s1, unit hit tests Ld, takes a wound for each point it failed, no armor or cover saves, doesnt work against ATSKNF
- Night Shield confers Stealth
- Hex Rifle inflicts ID on Precision Hits
- Soul Trap gives +1s for each usnaved wound inflicted in a challenge
- Reavers no longer attack while moving, now bladevanes are improved HoW. Caltrops inflict D6 rending HoWs, Gravs inflict Concussive
- Spirit Probe now improves FnP of all Deldar in 6" by 1 to a max od 4+
- Phantasm works like TGL, shorter range
- Ossefactor is assault 1, fleshbane, ap2. If something is killed then the victims unit get d6 hits with s equal to t of the victim, ap-, ignores cover
- Liquifier is now s3
- Implosion Msls are s6 ap2 blast
- Chain Flails now only give Shred
- Talos has 3 attacks, same as Cronos
- Borh Haemy and Archon improve PfP, they let a unit add a 1 to the turn number for PrP, this stacks
- Warlord traits are ultra****ty, one gives the warlord +1 ws...
- Artefacts look average too, there is the old Djinn blade which works almost the same, a helmet that gives adamantium will in 12" and perils on any double, a terrible pistol, an ghostplate that gives -2 Ld in 6" and Fear, also one of the items does not work against atsknf. There is also Animus Vitae which is a one use, assault 1, s4 ap2, 8" that if a unsaved wound is inflicted lets all Deldar add 1 to the turn number for PfP effects until the end of the game
- it says that Dodge now works against any wounds inflicted in fight sub phase, I am nit sure if overwatch counts or not
- bomber is 10 av on all sides
- it looks like Venom Blade can only be taken by the Acothyst now
- no flickerfields for anything other than venoms
- sails let a vehicle flat out 24"
- lances on infantry are a bit cheaper

[eldargal]

Why would anyone take anything but hydra gauntlets now? Weird, weird choice. Also changing shardnets from a defensive tool to an offensive tool, what? Really weird, not devastating but weird. Nothing really terrible there in my opinion, racks working on all splitner weapons is a nice boost. Losing flickerfields is probably the worst thing.

[DrLove42]

. Nothing really terrible there in my opinion, racks working on all splitner weapons is a nice boost. Losing flickerfields is probably the worst thing.

Agree that is not really terrible, agree loss of flickers is bad, disagree that flickers is worst.

Personally the loss of flyby attacks on reavers is devestating, as i loved that and the unit just crumbles in CC, which you now have to be in for them to have an effect.

The other great loss is thr Huskblades AP. Should have been AP2 cos it now means Archons have no AP2 options for Challenges, unless they can now take Incubi Klaives.

[eldargal]

Fair point about reavers and huskblades.

[Necron2.0]

I'm just hoping they've made Wyches viable again ... I mean outside of as "also rans" in a venom spam list. If not, then all my DE and the new shiney Codex are going up on Ebay.

[Charon]

A few more bits:

Wyches have no option for Haywires anymore, only the Hekatrix
No unit with skyfire (except for the flyers) in the codex

[daboarder]

I'm just hoping they've made Wyches viable again ... I mean outside of as "also rans" in a venom spam list. If not, then all my DE and the new shiney Codex are going up on Ebay.

A few more bits:

Wyches have no option for Haywires anymore, only the Hekatrix
No unit with skyfire (except for the flyers) in the codex

I think thats a No Necron

More News on reavers is that their HoW is S4 (so like scars) and Reding (thats actually mean)
And they now have Hit and Run

[DrLove42]

If true, think there may still be space for reavers in my list.

WD may not be the most accurate source for rules as we know they can be wrong but the battlereport suggests the "beastpacks must be 12 strong minimum" as false as its 3 masters and 4 beasts in the report.

Also if the Talos/Cronos are 1-3 per slot they arent a squad of MCs as they are deployed seperate to each other.

I hope Grotesques can take Ossifiers as i have a plan involving 10 of them, a hemonculus and a webway portal....

[daboarder]

If true, think there may still be space for reavers in my list.

WD may not be the most accurate source for rules as we know they can be wrong but the battlereport suggests the "beastpacks must be 12 strong minimum" as false as its 3 masters and 4 beasts in the report.

Also if the Talos/Cronos are 1-3 per slot they arent a squad of MCs as they are deployed seperate to each other.

I hope Grotesques can take Ossifiers as i have a plan involving 10 of them, a hemonculus and a webway portal....

The beast master was Naftkas mistake, the german source states 12 MAXIMUM

[Charon]

More News on reavers is that their HoW is S4 (so like scars) and Reding (thats actually mean)


Not really. Taking D3 S4 hits with bladevanes (so without having to move into CC with a S3 and 5+ armor unit) over 1 S4 hit with rending any day.

[daboarder]

Not really. Taking D3 S4 hits with bladevanes (so without having to move into CC with a S3 and 5+ armor unit) over 1 S4 hit with rending any day.

it wont be a single S4 hit though, it'll be 5-6 auto hits (because its squad size dependent)

It may be a little cliche, but as a nid player (with Gargs and Carni's) once you start getting some bonuses to your HoW it becomes a really really usefull attack.

Combined with HnR means that those bikes are going to be locked and safe from shooting, then jumping and smashing into another unit of their choosing at whim.

[AnEnemy]

Wow...wow. **** this ****. I won't even be able to eBay my army if half of this is true.

[eldargal]

Court of the archon is now between 1 and 12 models chosen in any combination from the 4 types (so can have 12 sslyths if you want etc, thissame exact method is applied to the beastmasters where you now dont even need to take beastmasters if you wanted to), Lhamean 10pts, Ur-ghul 15, Medusae 25 and sslyth 25 and can take a venom or raider. Stats wise they look the same as before, some equipment changed though. The Lhamean now has a Shaimeshi blade, 2+ poison with a 6 to wound causing instant death (there's quite a few weapons with this rule). The medusae's eyeburst changed to a S4 template ap3.

Hellion's are fast attack, no way to change, same for wracks (elites) the only 2 squads that change their role are the kabalite warriors when they upgrade (3pts per model) to trueborn and the wyches upgrading to bloodbrides (3pts), they both are then considered Elites.

The succubus has a new weapon exclusive to her, the Archite glaive which can be used 1 or 2 handed, 1handed is S user, AP3 melee while the other is +1S, Ap2 and two handed.
Succubus ftw. Still only seeing the lack of haywire being mentioned by Charon and no one else so hoping that is a mistake.

[Charon]

it wont be a single S4 hit though, it'll be 5-6 auto hits (because its squad size dependent)

Bladevanes were also size dependent. Your 6 auto hits would have been 6 x D3 auto hits (so anywhere between 6 and 18 hits).
Also they jink for a 3+ cover save which is way better than their 5+ armor in melee, also no Granades.

[daboarder]

Succubus ftw. Still only seeing the lack of haywire being mentioned by Charon and no one else so hoping that is a mistake.

It was mentioned on naftka as being from the german site...so its probably right


Bladevanes were also size dependent. Your 6 auto hits would have been 6 x D3 auto hits (so anywhere between 6 and 18 hits).
Also they jink for a 3+ cover save which is way better than their 5+ armor in melee, also no Granades.

Huh, always thought that and caltrops was just a squad upgrade (kinda like a squad wide VS).

I'll be fair, that is bad, but you have gotten something at least in return (its not much but its SOEMTHING)

Its weird I really want to tell DE players to relax and wait till the codex is out.....But unlike others I'm not going to, because I'm more than willing to admit they are able to understand how these changes are going to effect them far more than I am, so I sympathise with you and i hope that like Nids you at least get some love at some point, be it through FW (malanthropes are saving that codex) or Black Library (so are the 'slates)

edit:

NEWS- Apparently GW decided updating the harlie rules was too hard...GONE!

[eldargal]

Wyches are really dependent on the accuracy of the rumours now. If they do get dodge against overwatch because it works in the assault not just the fight phase, then that's pretty good especially with drugs and the not-so-good weapons and assaulting out of their transport and so forth, even without haywire. If they lose haywire and GW have changed the wording of dodge in a way which actually changes nothing about it then they are pretty meh especially with shooting getting a buff. I mean you give wyches the ability to dodge explosions from a vehicle blowing up in assault and then take away their only reason to assault a vehicle? Stupid.

Not going to worry until I have the book and a clear picture of the changes and how they work together though, still not overly worried. Never liked SCs much anyway so not sorry to see them go, except Malys for entirely different reasons.

[Belial69]

Just stumbled across thisSomeone has a Power Lance (I can see it's profile in the summary) in the codex, but I have no specific unit pages so unsure. However, the most logical choice are Scourges, who have a polearm model option for the Solarite

>Cronos weapons stayed the same, they lost their additional support effects though, because Cronos now has a passive aura around itself (described in my prev. post). This is my conjecture but I think Talos and Cronos can be mixed in the same unit for a nice effect of 2 Taloi and a Cronos, with 4+ FnP on all of them

>Baleblast now indeed has Soul Blaze instead of Pinning. Mandrakes also lost their 5++, which means the leak about them having Stealth and Shrouded instead is almost certainly true

>I correct myself - Archon only boosts Power from Pain turn number when fielded in the new Dark Eldar detachment which also grants 5+ cover save for Troops and 6+ cover save for everything else on the first turn

>Shock Prow now gives AV14 when ramming

>Chain Snares now let a vehicle Tank Shock but not Ram

>Splinter Cannons are Salvo 4/6 and got more expensive

>Someone in the codex has a Crucible of Malediction (most likely Haemonculi) - once per game, all Psyker units (Brotherhoods included) within 3D6" suffer a S6 hit with no saves of any kind allowed

>Artefacts:

Animus Vitae - already described this in my other post

Archangel of Pain - once per game, all units within 9" test LD with a -2 penalty, then take a wound with no cover/armor saves for each point they failed. Doesn't work against units with ATSKNF

Armor of Misery - a Ghostplate with Fear and -2 LD penalty to all enemy units within 6"

Djin Blade - AP3, +2 Attacks, after all attacks roll D6, on 1 the bearer suffers a wound with no saves

Helm of Spite - Adamantium Will for all friendly units within 12", Psykers within 12" suffer Perils on any double.

Parasite's Kiss - Pistol, Poison 2+, Master-crafted, after inflicting an unsaved wound, the bearer restores a single wound.

[Kirsten]

love the fact people are going 'OMG!!!! these suck sell my dark eldar immediately!!!'

the book isn't out yet, you haven't played with it yet. if you are going to sell a whole army because it might be slightly worse than before then you clearly are not actually dark eldar fans at all, just power fans. also someone earlier complained that all books this edition have gotten less powerful, which would in fact mean it doesn't matter. you lot are useless.

[Charon]

Huh, always thought that and caltrops was just a squad upgrade (kinda like a squad wide VS).

Nope Bladevanes was a special rule for them, with upgrading it to caltrops for D6 S6 hits.

and more "good news"


- I am now almost sure that Venom Blade can be taken on the Acothyst only. There are two different weapons table for Coven and non Coven units. Coven units get VB, ECW, Scissorhand, Flesh Gauntlet, Mindphase, and Agoniser. Out of these, VB and ECW can only be taken on the Acothyst. Non Coven units get Power Sword (no option for other types) and Agoniser, that's it. So I Imagine the old VBs of all the kits will now be Power Swords. Also, Heamy can no longer take Power Weapons (unless it's specified directly in his profile, I haven't seen it)
- Agoniser is now Poison 4+, still AP3, same cost
- Scissorhand is Poison 4+, Rending
- ECW is Poison 5+ (sic), AP3, Concussive and is also the most expensive of all Coven weapons
- Flesh Gauntlet is Poison 4+, ID on 6 To Hit
- PGL does NOT confer grenades anymore - I have not seen the Incubi profile page, so cannot say if they've gained grenades or not
- both PGL and TGL do not work against ATSKNF
- Monoscythe, Shatterfield and Necrotoxin missles haven't changed
- there are no new ranged weapons other than Ossefactor and Dark Scythe (24", S8, AP2, blast, only on Bomber), that info about AP2 blast for Talos also seems incorrect, I think someone confused Stinger Pod for it (which hasn't changed)
- Reaver save is still 5+, all HoW attacks are Rending, base is 1 S4 hit, Caltrops D6 S6, Grav is 1 S4 Concussive
- significant stat changes for Beasts: Khymeras are now S4/T4 (majority T4 for a Khymera pack!), Flocks are nerfed hard, now WS2 (!), A4, W3, Fiend is now WS3, W3 (so even worse than before)
- someone has a Power Lance (I can see it's profile in the summary) in the codex, but I have no specific unit pages so unsure. However, the most logical choice are Scourges, who have a polearm model option for the Solarite
- Cronos weapons stayed the same, they lost their additional support effects though, because Cronos now has a passive aura around itself (described in my prev. post). This is my conjecture but I think Talos and Cronos can be mixed in the same unit for a nice effect of 2 Taloi and a Cronos, with 4+ FnP on all of them
- Baleblast now indeed has Soul Blaze instead of Pinning. Mandrakes also lost their 5++, which means the leak about them having Stealth and Shrouded instead is almost certainly true
- I correct myself - Archon only boosts PfP turn number when fielded in the new DE detachment which also grants 5+ cover save for Troops and 6+ cover save for everything else on the first turn (but only if Night Fight occurs, lolz, so there is a chance your detachment will grant you nothing)
- Shock Prow now gives AV14 when ramming
- Chain Snares now let a vehicle Tank Shock but not Ram
- Splinter Cannons are Salvo 4/6 and got more expensive (so a double nerf)
- Someone in the codex has a Crucible of Malediction (most likely Haemy) - once per game, all Psyker units (Brotherhoods included) within 3D6" suffer a S6 hit with no saves of any kind allowed
- Artefacts are:
-- Animus Vitae - already described this in my other post
-- Archangel of Pain - once per game, all units within 9" test Ld with a -2 penalty, then take a wound with no cover/armor saves for each point they failed. Sounds great BUT this does not work against ATSKNF! What the hell!
-- Armour of Misery - a Ghostplate with Fear and -2 Ld penalty to all enemy units within 6"
-- Djin Blade - AP3, +2 Attacks, after all attacks roll D6, on 1 the bearer suffers a wound with no saves
-- Helm of Spite - Adamantium Will for all friendly units within 12", Psykers within 12" suffer Perils on any double. This, imo, is the best out of the artefacts
-- Parasite's Kiss - Pistol, Poison 2+, Master-crafted, after inflicting an unsaved wound, the bearer restores a single wound. Turbocrap.

[Belial69]

Bummed about Vect, but hey GW are gonna get that extra sqqeeze out of us one way or another, other than that though, really looking forward to the new dex now.

[AnEnemy]

love the fact people are going 'OMG!!!! these suck sell my dark eldar immediately!!!'

the book isn't out yet, you haven't played with it yet. if you are going to sell a whole army because it might be slightly worse than before then you clearly are not actually dark eldar fans at all, just power fans. also someone earlier complained that all books this edition have gotten less powerful, which would in fact mean it doesn't matter. you lot are useless.

I know right? I mean, why would someone that's played DE for six years have even the slightest clue what the army's strengths and weaknesses are and be able to apply critical thought to an avalanche of codex leaks?

We should just stfu, spend $50, and then decide if its a good product. Makes perfect sense. I certainly won't be torrenting this asap.


Now pardon me while I join all the other power gaming Dark Eldar players in the mystical land of Unicorns. WTF?

[Mr Mystery]

Rumours. Not leaks.

If you're really panicking that you might have to try marginally harder to win, you might want to try a less stressful hobby.

[Charon]

Rumours. Not leaks.

If you're really panicking that you might have to try marginally harder to win, you might want to try a less stressful hobby.

With an army that was already hard to win with.
Also getting rid of any AP2 weapon for the archon (power sword is the only power weapon we have access to) was a genious stroke... we dont want the evil space elf to ever kill a space marine character after all...

[Mr Mystery]

So get him stuck into the chaffe instead, and tear through them.

Dark Eldar have always been a thinkers army, since their very beginning. There is nothing new here. You might as well complain that Orks don't tend to have very good armour on their basic Boyz.

[Charon]

This is not an issue of "armor"
This is an issue of massive nerfs across the board. This is an issue getting half of our options just deleted out of the codex. This is not a "lol think a lil bit" issue. The Army stays exactly the same but with less options, less firepower and in many cases higher point costs despite nerfs (120 for Talos. YES!)
Im actually quite comfortable with playing glass cannon. But it gets tiresome and unfun when the "cannon" is removed.
But hey... at lest knight are now free to stomp anything with haywire out of the game. They are not gonna sell me models with that **** rules.

[Mr Mystery]

Dude, you're going entirely off of rumours and hearsay - two things which haven't been terribly reliable of late.

And for me, worse? Opinion of someone. Saw one about the Voidraven being 'over costed'. No quantifying. Not so much as an explanation of opinion - just a bold statement, which is now being taken for gospel.

Relax. You're most likely going to buy the book anyway. Get a few games under your belt against a variety of opponents, see how it goes. And if the book really, really does suck massive hairy donkey scrotums? It's what, four yearsish until the next one? No need to sell off an army you've invested a lot of money in time in.

[MajorWesJanson]

So get him stuck into the chaffe instead, and tear through them.

Dark Eldar have always been a thinkers army, since their very beginning. There is nothing new here. You might as well complain that Orks don't tend to have very good armour on their basic Boyz.

The problem is that Dark Eldar are a thinker's army to play, but playing against them is not so much. Anything with a flamer template is pretty much a hard counter to most DE units. Basic bolters can shoot down out vehicles and planes (especially since the bomber dropped in armor while going up in price). IG Wyverns do such horrible things to the army that going up against them is practically a NPE. Add to that per the rumors, a lot of the "thinking tools" are gone. Haywire wyches to take on vehicles, bladevanes letting us maneuver and deal wounds instead of braving overwatch and getting stuck in, wych weapons letting you use careful unit positioning to minimize enemy attacks with shardnets, all seem to be gone.

I'm usually quite positive (though some people seem to think that being positive about GW seems to be a crime) and quite enjoy the GK book, but from the rumors, this DE book is highly disappointing- it doesn't seem to fix the basic problems of the army, in that the lack of durability is still too high for the damage output they can generate. Reaver jetbikes lost their ability to dance around doing damage while avoiding being tied up in combat, meanwhile the Light Eldar keep their basic troop jetbikes that somehow grant power armor to the wearer.

[eldargal]

Yeah Reavers are a blow and if the wyches lose haywire and don't get a dodge against overwatch they won't a particularly viable choice either, but DE shootiness is looking pretty good. I mean I will be super pissed if wyches suck but I think it will end up more like the Eldar situation of a good book with some ****ty choices rather than a terrible book overall.

The voidraven being overcosted came from someone who thought the base price was 250 points when it is in fact 160 and I think can only go to 210.

[Charon]

but DE shootiness is looking pretty good

In which regard?
Splinter cannon went up in price and got Salvo (so only 18" range after movement).
Venoms have Flickerfield but cant have Nightshields (which give Stealth now so dont stack with Nightfight like...erm... everything else for the same points)
Raiders went down in price (same cost as venom) but cant have Flickerfields anymore.
Ravagers cant have Flickerfields so you are forced to Jink with your main anti tank vehicle (as haywire on wyches is gone), not adding to shootiness.
Every other "shooty option" went either up in price (min 5 models on trueborn), just got deleted (Sliscus) or went up in price and got a nerf (Liquifier)

Yes, basically if you wanna play Raider/Venom Spam with Kabalites and Eldar allies not much has changed. If you want to deviate into virtually ANYTHING else, you get punished.

[eldargal]

Wych cult armies might suffer, coven and kabalite lists will be fine. I mean raiders have always been a given for DE, don't act like raider spam being good is a bad thing, that's basically the army from a lore perspective too.

[MajorWesJanson]

Wych cult armies might suffer, coven and kabalite lists will be fine. I mean raiders have always been a given for DE, don't act like raider spam being good is a bad thing, that's basically the army from a lore perspective too.


Wych cult weren't exactly strong to begin with, and seem to have lost their anti-tank grenades and ability to give assault grenades to units via PGL. Unless they can dodge vs overwatch, already weak wyches have gotten strictly worse.

[Charon]

I dont act like its a bad thing. But I want options. Its fine if it is the Backbone of the army. Its not fine if its the only thing you will ever be allowed to field.
Coven also took a hit with Wracks are stuck in Elite with no way to move them to Troops.

Still want to know where you see that their shootiness is fine when it has gone down by 1/3

[eldargal]

Wych cult weren't exactly strong to begin with, and seem to have lost their anti-tank grenades and ability to give assault grenades to units via PGL. Unless they can dodge vs overwatch, already weak wyches have gotten strictly worse.

I know, and I will be really cranky if that happens because I love my wych cult list. I'm just saying that doesn't mean the entire army is worthless.

Also when it comes to archon in challenges, might make succubus more valuable. AP2, high WS and cheaper than an archon.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They were cheaper than Archons...

[eldargal]

Bottom line for me is I don't see enough bad to personally make me stress that the army won't be viable even if there are some problems, and I'm leaving off making any kind of real judgement until I've actually seen the book in case there are factors that are being missed.

[The Sovereign]

Sorry, Mystery, Charon has the right of it. He's applying critical thinking.


I know right? I mean, why would someone that's played DE for six years have even the slightest clue what the army's strengths and weaknesses are and be able to apply critical thought to an avalanche of codex leaks?

We should just stfu, spend $50, and then decide if its a good product. Makes perfect sense. I certainly won't be torrenting this asap.


Now pardon me while I join all the other power gaming Dark Eldar players in the mystical land of Unicorns. WTF?

On the money. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Mr Mystery]

You can't do critical thinking without knowing facts.

Believe me, I literally critical think for a living.

[DrLove42]

You can't do critical thinking without knowing facts.

Believe me, I literally critical think for a living.

But then your whole argument depends on them not being facts. This close to release and such a massive deluge usually are true.

Sure some stuff may be missing. But assuming wjat we ha e is true (which seems a safe assumption) the army has suffered.

[Mr Mystery]

That's not a safe assumption though.

Points are largely unknown. Accuracy is for now somewhat questionable.

All in, there's no way anyone can come to any sort of conclusion at this point.

[The Sovereign]

You can't do critical thinking without knowing facts.

Believe me, I literally critical think for a living.

What a fun coincidence, me too. I'm still inclined to agree with Charon.

[eldargal]

There was similar talk at this point in the Eldar release too, so you know, still going to wait until I have the book and have tested it a bit.

[Mr Mystery]

Based on rumour, and at least third hand hearsay.

Stuff we 'know' at the moment is around Man In The Pub legal counsel in terms of reliability.

By all means feel free to worry, that's for the individual. But to write off the army, and panic sell existing armies is frankly bloody stupid and an overreaction at this point.

Hence what I'm saying - play some games before conclusion.

[Charon]

To be honest. You were wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME. Every time I keep hearing from you "only rumors, its not going to be as bad, just play a few games"
And every single time it was exactly (or even worse) as rumored.
I dont know how many games you need to find out that a 18" splinter cannon is inferior to a 36" splinter cannon (when the 18" one is also more expensive)
I dont know how many games you need to find out that Wyches without Haywire or 2D6 extra attacks are not going to be half as good as they were before (hint: they were not even very good to begin with)
I dont know how many games you need to find out that no Flickerfields on Ravagers are going to invalidate the unit.
I dont know how many games you need to find out that an Ap2 Huskblade was better than an AP3 one.
I dont know how many games you need to find out that D3 S4 vector strikes per Reaver are WAY better than 1 S4 HoW with rending.

No amount of point reduction is going to compensate for this. To get to a level where you could call these units "decent" they would have to fall to a points level equaling an imperial solider (which at least can get decent orders). The Reaver would have to be around 14 points to compensate. This is NOT going to happen.

[HERO]

To be honest. You were wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME. Every time I keep hearing from you "only rumors, its not going to be as bad, just play a few games"
And every single time it was exactly (or even worse) as rumored.
I dont know how many games you need to find out that a 18" splinter cannon is inferior to a 36" splinter cannon (when the 18" one is also more expensive)
I dont know how many games you need to find out that Wyches without Haywire or 2D6 extra attacks are not going to be half as good as they were before (hint: they were not even very good to begin with)
I dont know how many games you need to find out that no Flickerfields on Ravagers are going to invalidate the unit.
I dont know how many games you need to find out that an Ap2 Huskblade was better than an AP3 one.
I dont know how many games you need to find out that D3 S4 vector strikes per Reaver are WAY better than 1 S4 HoW with rending.

No amount of point reduction is going to compensate for this. To get to a level where you could call these units "decent" they would have to fall to a points level equaling an imperial solider (which at least can get decent orders). The Reaver would have to be around 14 points to compensate. This is NOT going to happen.

Yup. So unless there's massive, and I mean massive point drops all over the book, this looks to be pretty bad.

[eldargal]

How often do you fire splinter cannons after moving anyway though? It doesn't affect the weapons on vehicles because they have relentless and 18" splinter cannons on embarked kabalite squads isn't terrible.

Plus you're still assuming all those rumours will be true.
Wyches will indeed suck if the rumours are true, and that is extremely annoying.
Losing flickerfield won't invalidate Ravagers, with Nightshield it gets a 4+ jink and it can deep strike without paying for it.
Huskblade does indeed suck but some people thought it sucked when it was AP2 so whatever.
Yeah Reavers will suck.

Sky remains in unfalling state.

Edit: Oh and splinter cannons on embarked units now get to re-roll to hit rolls thanks to splinter racks, a nice buff.

[Charon]

How often do you fire splinter cannons after moving anyway though? It doesn't affect the weapons on vehicles because they have relentless and 18" splinter cannons on embarked kabalite squads isn't terrible.

Uhm... every time as they were Heavy 6 / Assault 4 ?
They are now Salvo 6/4, which means still 6 shots at max Range if you dont move and 4 on half range if you moved (unlike Assault 4 which was 4 shots at max range after movement).
And that was WITH Nightshields reducing enemy range by 6". Both gone. Splinterborn dead.


Plus you're still assuming all those rumours will be true.

There is a difference between rumors and leaks. We had rumors for weeks. Now we have leaks from more sources which are not contradicting each other in a single point.


Wyches will indeed suck if the rumours are true, and that is extremely annoying.

Leaks, not rumors.


Losing flickerfield won't invalidate Ravagers, with Nightshield it gets a 4+ jink and it can deep strike without paying for it.

And how often do you want to force your only Anti Tank weapons to snapshot? With nightshields it even gets a 3+ jink. And then you fire your precious lances on "6". Good thing it will survive to be useless another few rounds. Oh no wait... its a cover save. Not an invul save like Flickerfield was... forget that with cover, most armys just ignore it. And the most fun part is, that Nightshields give Stealth. So they dont stack with nightfight unlike Holo fields or camo netting.


Huskblade does indeed suck but some people thought it sucked when it was AP2 so whatever.

Probably people with no idea of how bad you need AP2 vs all marine type armies with their 2+ saves on characters.



Sky remains in unfalling state.

Even if GW goes out of business the sky remains in its place. Still it is annoying.

[eldargal]

Yeah except Faeit who is posting all these is still referring to them as rumours as well and some have been shown to be wrong so whatever.

Anyway I'm done, sick of all the pre-codex release whining so whatever, its teh same every ****ing release however strong or weak the book ends up being.

Edit: Ok Just going to say this:

If Ravager Aerial Assault stays the same, then a Ravager at cruising speed fires all its weapons at full BS with a 4+ jink.

[HERO]

Yeah except Faeit who is posting all these is still referring to them as rumours as well and some have been shown to be wrong so whatever.

Anyway I'm done, sick of all the pre-codex release whining so whatever, its teh same every ****ing release however strong or weak the book ends up being.

Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. If current rumor or leaks stay true, the book will be weaker, period.

[Charon]

If Ravager Aerial Assault stays the same, then a Ravager at cruising speed fires all its weapons at full BS with a 4+ jink.

Reread the rule please. Aerial Assault does nothing but let you fire all your weapons despite having moved more than 6" (and thus could only fire 1 normally). It does nothing for jink which forces snapshots not matter how many weapons you are allowed to fire.

[eldargal]

Read the 7th ed FAQ (http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Dark_Eldar_v1.0_May14.pdf):

Aerial Assault: A Ravager that moved at cruising speed may fire all of it's weapons using it's crews full Ballistic Skill.

[Al Shut]

Obviously there's only one way to tell if the codex will be bad

COIN TOSS!

I'm tossing, first one to post get's to call

[Charon]

There is nothing that lets you ignore the Snap shot rule and as such you may not apply it.
BRB, Snap Shots:


The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots

Aerial Assault doesn't state that it affects snap shots, so no effect on snap shots.

[eldargal]

http://i.imgur.com/AsCeajZ.gif
It literally allows the Ravager to fire at full BS while moving at cruising speed. That is the explicit ****ing wording. If you want to be completely literal then ravagers fire snap shots at full BS.

Advanced rules override basic rules, its one of the foundations of the sodding ruleset. I am so done with this debate now, it's just sad.

[Charon]

Yes and the "specific circumstances" are quite clearly mentioned.
If the Special rule doesnt mention that it modifys snap shots, it doesnt. Same with the Sororitas thingy granting BS 10 against psykers. You still shoot snap shots if you target a flyer with psychic pilot.
There are not an awful lot of rules that let you modify snapshots (Tau markerlights for example) while there is a whole lot of rules that do affect normal shooting.
According to your line of argumentation Power of the Machine Spirit could be used to fire at Fliers with full BS as it also allows you to fire a weapon with fulls BS. Not the case either as it does not specificaly allow you to modify snap shots.
Cant just ignore that the basic rules even tell you that special rules (which would override, agreed) are NOT overriding this rule unless specificaly stated.

[MajorWesJanson]

Aerial assault allows it to move 12" and still fire everything, unlike fast vehicles which move 12 and fire 2 guns. There is nothing about ignoring the need to snapshoot.

[darth_papi76]

Wow, it sounds like GW really crapped the bed with this one. I guess my Kabalites will be good support for my Craftworlders.

[Bigred]

collated by nonafel (frontpage comments) 9-28-2014


>Wyches invulnerable saves says it works against all wounds in the Fight Sub Phase.
>Combat Drugs work very much the same as before with no FNP option. They are still random and give a +1 to attacks, strength, initiative, toughness, weapon skill, or leadership.

>Warlord Traits

Dark Eldar within 12" have Fear
Can re-roll the dice for seize the initiative, for night fight, and reserves
Warlord gets Rage
Warlord gets Hatred
Warlord gets +1WS
Dark Eldar within 12" have Fearless

>Court of the Archon is now 1-12 models chosen in any combination from the four types (So can have 12 Sslyths if you want etc, this same exact method is applied to the Beastmasters where you now dont even need to take Beastmasters if you wanted to), Lhamean 10pts, Ur-ghul 15pts, Medusae 25pts and Sslyth 25pts, can take a Venom or Raider. Stats wise they look the same as before, some equipment changed though. The Lhamean now has a Shaimeshi blade, 2+ Poison with a to wound roll of 6 causing instant death (there's quite a few weapons with this rule). The Medusae's Eyeburst changed to a S4 AP3 Template.

>Hellions are fast attack, no way to change, same for Wracks (Elites) the only two squads that change their role are the Kabalite Warriors when they upgrade (3pts per model) to Trueborn and the Wyches upgrading to Bloodbrides (3pts per model), they both are then considered Elites.

>The Succubus has a new weapon exclusive to her, the Archite Glaive which can be used one or two handed, One handed is S: User AP3 melee while the other is +1S, AP2 and two handed.

>Dark Scythes are 24" S8 AP2 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance

>Raiders and Venoms are both 55 points base.

>Archons, Succubi, and Haemonculii can all take a Webway Portal for 35pts.

>Raiders, Venoms and Ravagers now have Deep Strike

>Wyches can take three special melee weapons if the unit is at least 10 models.

>Lelith and Drazhar have Rampage.

>No Lord of War, no Vect

>Real Space Raider Detachment: 1 HQ 2 Troops 1 Fast Attack are compulsory, but you can take up to 6 Fast Attack in one detachment.

>Gives a cover save of a 5+ to Troops in the first round and any round with Nightfight. Non-troops get a 6+

>Razorwing Jetfighter is now Fast Attack

>New Voidraven bomb is S9 AP2 Lance Large blast

>Webway Portal is an item that gives the carrier and unit Deep Strike without scatter.

>Talos/Cronos in units of 1-3, T7 3W points near a Wraithlord. Both have FNP. Talos has a new weapon option, 24" S5 AP2 Small blast.

>Cronos is cheaper, has AP3 and buffs for friendly units

>Beast packs have changed - minimum 12 models (of whatever type); Chimeras have the Daemon special rule. Razorwing Flocks only have 3A. Clawed Fiend is cheaper.

>Splinter Cannon is, 4/6 Salvo. Shredder does not have Mono-filament, but does have Shred.

>As for the Mandrakes, they lost the 5++, but got Shrouded and Stealth. They also start automatically with Baleblast and the only change to it is instead of pinning it has got Soul Blaze.

>Clonefield is a 4++ save. Shadow field the same as before.

>Power from Pain gives a set bonus depending upon what round it is, with no other requirements. The bonuses stack, so by the end of the game, your units really have a lot of bonuses.

>1. None,
>2. FNP 6+
>3. FNP 5+
>4. Furious Charge
>5. Fearless
>6. Rage

>Someone has a Power Lance (I can see it's profile in the summary) in the codex, but I have no specific unit pages so unsure. However, the most logical choice are Scourges, who have a polearm model option for the Solarite

>Cronos weapons stayed the same, they lost their additional support effects though, because Cronos now has a passive aura around itself (described in my prev. post). This is my conjecture but I think Talos and Cronos can be mixed in the same unit for a nice effect of 2 Taloi and a Cronos, with 4+ FnP on all of them

>Baleblast now indeed has Soul Blaze instead of Pinning. Mandrakes also lost their 5++, which means the leak about them having Stealth and Shrouded instead is almost certainly true

>I correct myself - Archon only boosts Power from Pain turn number when fielded in the new Dark Eldar detachment which also grants 5+ cover save for Troops and 6+ cover save for everything else on the first turn

>Shock Prow now gives AV14 when ramming

>Chain Snares now let a vehicle Tank Shock but not Ram

>Splinter Cannons are Salvo 4/6 and got more expensive

>Someone in the codex has a Crucible of Malediction (most likely Haemonculi) - once per game, all Psyker units (Brotherhoods included) within 3D6" suffer a S6 hit with no saves of any kind allowed

>Artefacts:

Animus Vitae - already described this in my other post

Archangel of Pain - once per game, all units within 9" test LD with a -2 penalty, then take a wound with no cover/armor saves for each point they failed. Doesn't work against units with ATSKNF

Armor of Misery - a Ghostplate with Fear and -2 LD penalty to all enemy units within 6"

Djin Blade - AP3, +2 Attacks, after all attacks roll D6, on 1 the bearer suffers a wound with no saves

Helm of Spite - Adamantium Will for all friendly units within 12", Psykers within 12" suffer Perils on any double.

Parasite's Kiss - Pistol, Poison 2+, Master-crafted, after inflicting an unsaved wound, the bearer restores a single wound.

>I am now almost sure that Venom Blade can be taken on the Acothyst only. There are two different weapons table for Coven and non-Coven units. Coven units get VB, ECW, Scissorhand, Flesh Gauntlet, Mindphase, and Agoniser. Out of these, VB and ECW can only be taken on the Acothyst. Non-Coven units get Power Sword (no option for other types) and Agoniser, that's it. So I Imagine the old VBs of all the kits will now be Power Swords. Also, Haemonculi can no longer take Power Weapons (unless it's specified directly in his profile, I haven't seen it)

>Agoniser is now Poison 4+, still AP3, same cost

>Scissorhand is Poison 4+, Rending

>ECW is Poison 5+ (sic), AP3, Concussive and is also the most expensive of all Coven weapons

>Flesh Gauntlet is Poison 4+, ID on a to hit roll of 6

>PGL does NOT confer grenades anymore - I have not seen the Incubi profile page, so cannot say if they've gained grenades or not

>Both PGL and TGL do not work against ATSKNF

>Monoscythe, Shatterfield and Necrotoxin missiles haven't changed

>There are no new ranged weapons other than Ossefactor and Dark Scythe (24", S8, AP2, blast, only on Voidraven Bomber), that info about AP2 blast for Talos also seems incorrect, I think someone confused Stinger Pod for it (which hasn't changed)

>Reaver save is still 5+, all HoW attacks are Rending, base is 1 S4 hit, Caltrops D6 S6, Grav is 1 S4 Concussive

>Significant stat changes for Beasts: Khymeras are now S4 and T4 (majority T4 for a Khymera pack!), Rzorwing Flocks are now WS2, A4, W3, Clawed Fiend is now WS3, W3

[AnEnemy]

I just don't understand why an already weak book is getting so many nerfs, point increases, and unit removals. I guess they already made their money back on those plastic molds...

[DarkLink]

Don't worry, soon enough someone, likely mr mystery, will come along and explain why you're morally inferior for asking that question and everything will be explained. But in the meantime, welcome to the party.

It would be one thing if the nerfs were particularly even-handed. That way, once every codex got updated, it would be less of a nerf and more of a re-balance to remove a lot of the crazy stuff that 40k has escalated to. Unfortunately, in the case of most of the new books so far, the internal balance is pretty terrible.

[Gir]

Aerial assault allows it to move 12" and still fire everything, unlike fast vehicles which move 12 and fire 2 guns. There is nothing about ignoring the need to snapshoot.

Correction, fast vehicles fire 2 weapons at full BS and snap fire the rest, so it is modifying snap shooting.

[daboarder]

Don't worry, soon enough someone, likely mr mystery, will come along and explain why you're morally inferior for asking that question and everything will be explained. But in the meantime, welcome to the party.

It would be one thing if the nerfs were particularly even-handed. That way, once every codex got updated, it would be less of a nerf and more of a re-balance to remove a lot of the crazy stuff that 40k has escalated to. Unfortunately, in the case of most of the new books so far, the internal balance is pretty terrible.

So is the external, I mean the Nerfs have been pretty similar across the armies....but the armies weren't exactly ballanced to begin with, so the status quo hasn't changed much....and then theres always eldar and tau

[DarkLink]

What I mean is that the nerfs would be ok if they were bringing everyone down to the same level. There'll be a period where there's a lot of imbalance as older, more powerful books beat up on the new, weaker books, but if they reign stuff in it could balance things out. Of course, that doesn't appear to be what's happening because of the severe balance issues within the new books. I mean, Grey knights are going to be Librarian, Draigo, max Dreadknights, min troops, allied to someone, and only because the new book has terrible internal balance. Hopefully DE will be better in that regard, at least.

[Eldar_Atog]

The hardest pill to swallow for me is to watch 5 of the 8 special characters disappear from the codex. They are always the heart of any army.. even if you don't use them. Look at the current Dark Eldar book. A very big chunk of the fluff from the book revolves around Vect, Malys, and Urien. Now, 2 of those characters are gone. It doesn't matter if they do a supplement later that returns one or more of them.

I see no reason to be excited about this release. GW can keep their new bomber model. I'll probably buy the book but I see no reason to buy additional models for my small dark eldar force.

I can only hope that the Craftworld book doesn't get gutted for another few years.

[Uberbeast]

Ork book ruined, dark eldar possibly ruined. Both of my main armies could be awful now; I'm going to go work on my Dark Age minis while I consider if it's worth waiting through this edition or if I should just sell all my 40k stuff for pennies on the dollar.

[The Sovereign]

I'll give credit credit where it's due, many of GW's new Codexes have been good. I think they did good things with the Astra Militarum, Space Wolves, Space Marines, Daemons and such. Orks were debatable, Nids were obviously just bad. Unfortunately, it looks like Dark Eldar will be somewhere between Nids and Orks.

GW, just let Jeremy Vetock, Phil Kelly, and Adam Bligh write your damn codexes and be done with it.

[DarkLink]

Sure, if you count like the last two years of codices, they've got some good codices in there. But of the actual "new" new codices, Ork players seem to almost universally hate the new Ork codex, most of us Grey Knight players dislike 90% of the new codex, no one plays Space Wolves anymore, and it seems like Dark Eldar players are already jumping on the hate train. Anything before that was the old style of books where they didn't cut out half the special characters, nerf basically everything, etc.

[Archon XIII]

Dark Eldar have been my main and favorite army since I first started playing. Ever since the Grey Knights dex came out I have been dreading the day they would come for my codex and leave it in shambles. I can honestly say I am no longer afraid of that. These changes aren't bad guys, they are simply changes. We have seen how GW has gone around and taken a lot of the individual flare out of our armies and replaced it with mediocre and bland rules. That is NOT what they have done here. The flavor of the Dark Eldar has definitely been maintained.

Yes I'm going to miss Vect (hopefully not forever) and Sliscus, but this is in my opinion the best dex to come out after 7th edition, and one of the better one's since 6th.

[HERO]

Dark Eldar have been my main and favorite army since I first started playing. Ever since the Grey Knights dex came out I have been dreading the day they would come for my codex and leave it in shambles. I can honestly say I am no longer afraid of that. These changes aren't bad guys, they are simply changes. We have seen how GW has gone around and taken a lot of the individual flare out of our armies and replaced it with mediocre and bland rules. That is NOT what they have done here. The flavor of the Dark Eldar has definitely been maintained.

Yes I'm going to miss Vect (hopefully not forever) and Sliscus, but this is in my opinion the best dex to come out after 7th edition, and one of the better one's since 6th.

I don't think its more of a change that people are upset about, but the fact that everything seems to have gotten worse.

[Archon XIII]

I don't think its more of a change that people are upset about, but the fact that everything seems to have gotten worse.

Twin-linked shard carbine trueborn on a Raider with a 3+ Jink save is totally worse. I apologize for my optimism.

[Charon]

No but it doesnt need to be "worse" because its bad to begin with. Shard trueborn are extremely expensive (thats 160 for the trueborn alone without raider) and all they do is adding 10 more poison shots. For the same price you get 2 squads of kabalites which have even more shots than 10 shardborn.
Also you will need your Truborn on Tank duty as they are the only option left in the book after Ravagers lost the Flickerfield und Wyches lost their HWG.

[StraightSilver]

I think once we get the book in our hands we will all feel a bit different.

It looks as though Archons can now take Reaver Jet Bikes and Sky Boards now which opens up some very cool possibilities.

And if the soul probe adds +1 to FnP and you take the Real Space Raider list you could potentially have FnP 4+ from Turn 3 on an army of jet bikes. And being able to take 6 FA choices in a standard detachment is awesome.

And I think Wyches just got a whole lot better as they now get their dodge save against overwatch.

I am a bit annoyed that Wracks can't be troops but sure that will change with the supplement but means I bought two boxes of the new plastic ones this weekend for nothing. :)

[Charon]

It looks as though Archons can now take Reaver Jet Bikes and Sky Boards now which opens up some very cool possibilities.

He cant. This was a misread by someone. Skyboard and Jetbike are in the Wargear list but not an option for any character.


And if the soul probe adds +1 to FnP and you take the Real Space Raider list you could potentially have FnP 4+ from Turn 3 on an army of jet bikes. And being able to take 6 FA choices in a standard detachment is awesome.


Soul probe adds +1 FnP but only in 6" and that thing is on a Cronos who moves 6"
6 FA choices would be great if they had either objective secured (nope) or were anywhere near useful. The special detatchemnt does nothing at all as you lose all your raiders and Venoms (next to none Standard slots), objective secured and the detatchemt rule only works if nightfight was rolled. 50% chance of no special rule. Joy.


And I think Wyches just got a whole lot better as they now get their dodge save against overwatch.

Also nope. They get their dodge in the fight subphase. Overwatch happens in the charge subphase.


I am a bit annoyed that Wracks can't be troops but sure that will change with the supplement but means I bought two boxes of the new plastic ones this weekend for nothing. :)

This will most probably happen with the coven supplement. Dont see the added use yet as Wracks dont really add anything special.

[Wolfshade]

Let's just nudge this back to civility a bit more :)

[Uberbeast]

Does anyone else worry that the new standardized system for "pain tokens" will lead to DE armies standing off and evading combat until their units are sufficiently beefed up to finish the game? Instead of being fast hard-hitting raiders, they have had their role reversed where their oponent benefits from an early aggressive stance and they benefit by stalling for time.

[Mr Mystery]

I think there's more emphasis on target priority. Jump and beat up the squidgy stuff early doors, so by the time you get onto the tougher meats, your pain tokens have kicked in.

All armies benefit from an early aggressive stance anyways - that's how you grab and maintain the initiative. They just go about it in different ways.

[Charon]

Yes pretty much as the good stuff only happens at turn 4 and 6. If you cant preserve your army till they get Furious charge (turn 4) you have no benefits. Which is an odd choice for a melee USR which you will need at turn 2 and 3.
Also Rage on turn 6 is a bad joke as 50% of all games end after turn 5.


I think there's more emphasis on target priority.

You cant emphasise target priority more for an army that already was all about target priority. There is no "more than best target priority".
If your target priority sucked with the old dex, you got tabled on turn 2. God Bless ignore cover units.
This has not changed. The only thing this rule changes is that you want to stay more passive so your units get benefits. There is no benefit when your no armor, no cover, T3 units get blown up.

[Mr Mystery]

Wrong. And I suspect you know that, but seem determined to pick a fight.

Previously, Dark Eldar could jump pretty much any unit early on. Now? Now you have to decide which bite to take in the early turns, and which to take in the later turns.

And that's assuming power from pain works according to how the interwebs claims - it may not.

[Charon]

Previously, Dark Eldar MUST jump pretty much any unit early on.

FIFY

There is no "bite to take" on later turns. Because "later turns" is where your stuff is dead when you did not do enough damage in previous turns. Glass cannon. This is no CWEldar codex where you can do such things and still be quite safe from retailation through 3+ saves, 12 AV vehicles and rerolls across the army.
Wow. Even WD claims that this is the way PfP works.

You are free to to bath in your disbelive. I for my part will wait for the codex to prove you wrong. Again.

[Mr Mystery]

So you've always just hurled your stuff headfirst into whatever, without stopping to think about which units might be better left until later?

And you feel the issue is with the rules?

[Charon]

So you've always just hurled your stuff headfirst into whatever, without stopping to think about which units might be better left until later?

Are you trying to troll on purpose?

Thats not what I said.
You claim that you have to be more carful with your target priorities. I told you that you already HAD to be super careful with your target priorities. You continue to ride on target priority and how you are supposed to not jump on priority targets because of possible new rules. I tell you that you have to jump hard on priority targets or else they will eradicate your army.
You conclude "Lol he jumps on everything"

I think Im not the one with issues here...

[Mr Mystery]

It's exactly what you said.

You 'corrected' my earlier post to say 'Previously, Dark Eldar MUST jump pretty much any unit early on. '

Please, pick an argument, ideally a coherent one and stick with it.

[Charon]

We were still talking about priority targets as that was the only point we agreed on.
So you are jumping away from "priority targets" and tell me to stay coherent?

[Uberbeast]

This doesn't come down to a power issue when we're talking about the new PfP rule. For me it's simply counter intuitive for how a raiding army works. The old system encouraged dark eldar to aggressively attack weak enemy units, building up their pain until they were ready to deal with the tougher enemy units. It encouraged a raider type playstyle where you were rewarded for "cruelty" and "cunning" as well as risking your assets.

The new rule encourages husbanding your force, in effect waiting for your power to build, only hitting your enemy when he threatens you or when you need a quick objective, then using whatever forces you have left at the end to crush your enemy.

My two big issues with the new rule are that it represents the DE more in the role of a defender against a raiding force, holding off the unexpected strength of the enemy while waiting for reinforcements, and second, that the dark eldar as an army are too fragile to make such a tactic particuarly viable. PfP shows the massive misunderstanding of game design and the lazy, poorly thought out approach that GW is famous for.

[40kGamer]

PfP shows the massive misunderstanding of game design and the lazy, poorly thought out approach that GW is famous for.

What do you expect from a model company that just happens to write rules?

[Eldar_Atog]

What do you expect from a model company that just happens to write rules?

If GW wants to hide behind that excuse, they need to lower the price on their rules. Compare GW's behavior to Privateer Press. Privateer Press is writing better rules at a lower price. The models come with a card with the rules already on it. They might not quite match GW's model quality but they have really nice models.

I say all of this as a fluff player who does not enjoy competitive play. I want a clear, well tested rule set. I'm tired of the 15-30 minute breaks in a game to have to research a poorly written rule. It breaks the immersion into the game.

[Bigred]

via Grot Orderly (http://grotorderly.blogspot.com/2014/09/white-dwarf-36-przecieki-leaks.html) 9-29-2014

Dark Eldar Week 3 Prices

Little bird has passed the following info.
There will be no pics, even though I received some, since GW does not want me to their stuff, before the release date... oh well.

Eldar Archon model
£14, €18, USD23, AU25 // 70zł

Eldar Succubus model
£14, €18, USD23, AU25 // 70zł

Haemonculus Covens - Codex Supplement
£30, €39, USD50, AU60 // 150zł

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Hrm, this release seems a bit mediocre - not quite as awful as Grey knights, but not as as model-happy as the Ork one. It's good to see the Wracks and Voidraven in model form - and that new Succubus is a fantastic model! But It's a shame about the loss of Lady Malys and Vect - and I think they should of done a Grotesques duel-kit that added in a new unit as well.

[Eldar_Atog]

Hrm, this release seems a bit mediocre - not quite as awful as Grey knights, but not as as model-happy as the Ork one.

Yeah, the new succubus is nice but that's about the only thing to get excited about. It's almost like they are not even a model company or a rules company. Perhaps we should just refer to them as a IP company now.

[40kGamer]

Yeah, the new succubus is nice but that's about the only thing to get excited about. It's almost like they are not even a model company or a rules company. Perhaps we should just refer to them as a IP company now.

Sad but true.. :)

[silashand]

Yeah, the new succubus is nice but that's about the only thing to get excited about. It's almost like they are not even a model company or a rules company. Perhaps we should just refer to them as a IP company now.

This. As noted above it's sad really.

And I still despise the new codex layout :( .

[HERO]

Twin-linked shard carbine trueborn on a Raider with a 3+ Jink save is totally worse. I apologize for my optimism.

Twin-linked shard carbines is available now. But now you have a 5+ Flickershield on a 70 point Raider (meaning, the 5th Ed book), vs. 55+15 for a Night Shield Raider. The big difference here is the option to Jink for 4+ or save with a 5+ vs. things that ignore cover. You don't have that option now.

[Charon]

Hmm?
Flickerfield is gone from all but the Venom. Nightshields are available to all vehicles except the Venom.
So Venom still 5++ or 4+ cover from Jink, all others 4+ cover from Jink + Stealth USR.

[HERO]

Hmm?
Flickerfield is gone from all but the Venom. Nightshields are available to all vehicles except the Venom.
So Venom still 5++ or 4+ cover from Jink, all others 4+ cover from Jink + Stealth USR.

Right, so how does that change anything I said?

No Flicker Fields now means you're just taking cover saves.. which in turn can be ignored. Compare this to before, where you CAN take Flicker Fields on your Raiders.

I edited for clarity. Until friday, current book = 5th Ed. book.

[40kGamer]

No flickerfields for Raiders or Fliers really sucks.

[AnEnemy]

Come on guys. We all know that 5++ on AV 10 was so OP.

/sarcasm

[Krayd]

If trueborn still retain the ability to take haywires for the entire squad, then they might be able to replace wyches as the go-to for tankhunting. Blasterborn can even get some blaster shots in before they charge.

Scourges would be a good unit to add haywires to... but I probably shouldn't expect this.

I keep hearing some snippets about Ravager armor getting nerfed down to 10/10/10 (while not getting a point decrease to compensate). Has anyone seem anything fairly solid to confirm or deny this? Needless to say, that would be pretty horrible.

[Charon]

Still have hopes up that Bloodbrides retain the option.

[MarneusCalgar]

Directly from La Taberna de Laurana (http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com.es/):

11371

[eldargal]

Looks slightly less derpy and vanilla, still disappointing unless it comes with lots of bits.

[Defenestratus]

Directly from La Taberna de Laurana (http://latabernadelaurana.blogspot.com.es/):

11371

Whoever was in charge of that pose needs to be run out of town on a flaming ox cart.

[eldargal]

Yup. All the amazing freedom plastic multi-part character models allow and we get that lol. Still looks better than the earlier photo but such a disappointment.

[darthken]

DE codex ------This is the final nail in the coffin for me. Over 20 years of playing GW games in one form or another to come down to this. "I think it's time I see other gaming companies. It's not me it's YOU." "Ive been seeing spartan games in secret for several months now." Maybe instead of spending millions on lawsuits you lose, you could have spent the money on Making the awesome special character models for all the armies.

[Charon]

Somehow he looks like he is shivering from cold...

[Mr Mystery]

Whoever was in charge of that pose needs to be run out of town on a flaming ox cart.

Indeed.

The pose is a shame, as it actually looks like a nicely detailed kit. But.....pose is very Tomb King.

[eldargal]

I'm really hoping they made it completely compatible with the existing plastic kits, being able to swap arms,torso and head easily with no or minimal cutting would make it a reasonably useful kit. But when they could have made something like:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110622042202/warhammer40k/images/b/b5/Dark_Eldar_Archon3.jpg
It's just :rolleyes:

[Charon]

The worse thing is that the Succubus, Archon and Haemy alread had good models... that effor could have easily gone to Malays, Sliscus and Baron (or even an updated Drazahr)

[eldargal]

The new succubus I prefer, the old one had a slightly meh head and the pose was really static for a succubus. But the haemonculus and archon are certainly not major improvements so coming at the expense of SCs is a bit annoying.

[40kGamer]

Whoever was in charge of that pose needs to be run out of town on a flaming ox cart.

I've always been a secret fan of at rest pose's. Plus there is hopefully some conversion potential there.

[Charon]

Thing is I dont really care about minor details as long as they get a representation that doesn't look like this (http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/16/83/38/70/archon10.jpg) im totally fine with having a slightly "meh" head. Even if it is a minor improvement it comes at the expense of other stuff.

[Rotten Deadite]

I think there's more emphasis on target priority. Jump and beat up the squidgy stuff early doors, so by the time you get onto the tougher meats, your pain tokens have kicked in.

All armies benefit from an early aggressive stance anyways - that's how you grab and maintain the initiative. They just go about it in different ways.

If the Dark Eldar are supposed to be played "front-loaded" then why does Power from Pain kick in as the game drags on? The implementation of a turn-based mechanic does not synchronize well with an army that appears (to me, anyway) to be themed around alpha-strikes. What else could it be teaching the players, except "hide in the corner on the first two turns until you get awesome?"

Sure, there can be an argument for build diversity. Maybe someone in GW thinks that DE armies should be able to play in more ways than just "run in screaming in the first two turns and hope your dice don't **** you." But I hope that's not the intention, because this is a piss poor way of doing it. And anyway, it'll take a lot more than a turn-based PfP to encourage build diversity.

Still, I'll say this: the turn-based PfP progression of bonuses (if the rumors are correct) does make sense if you consider it outside of external factors. First two boosts you get are to Feel No Pain, which means your army can last longer so that they can get into the juicy stuff near Turn 4. And God help them on Turn 6, I guess?

But again, what does this teach the players? Dark Eldar know they're going to be very ferocious on Turn 6, right at the end of the game, but so does the enemy. So with this one rule alone, just this one Power From Pain rule, what's actually happening is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what's intended.

Dark Eldar players wait for later turns. Their enemy, knowing that they're going to get harder to kill and hit harder as the turns go on, try to kill them as quickly as possible!

It seems to me as though the enemy player becomes the one trying to Alpha Strike!

Now, granted, hitting hard and fast seems to be a good idea in any scenario, especially in a game where most scenarios have an unpredictable (die roll) end condition. And sure, maybe (probably) I'm missing something obvious. Sure would love it if someone told me what that was :D

[eldargal]

Dark Eldar aren't durable enough to last a whole game without taking decisive action to remove major threats early on. PfP just means as a game drags on taking some losses won't be as devastating as it might otherwise be. I think it is a good mechanic personally, characterful too.

[Mr Mystery]

PfP - Currently, to get the first stage, you need to wipe out a unit.

Now, you get it from turn 2 onwards - globally (well, on all units that have said rule). So from turn two, all DE have Feel No Pain. No need to risk getting into combat, just need to dodge the worst of the enemies incoming fire, or (now do correct me if I'm wrong) just arrive from Reserves already feeling well tough.

So how is that actually worse than having to risk it, on a unit by unit basis (with the beneficiary worked out randomly in a multiple combat)?

Seriously? Anyone? No? Dust? Bueller? Bueller? Dust? Anyone? Bueller? Dust?

[Rotten Deadite]

Oh, I agree that it's a good rule, fluff-wise. I think personally I preferred the theory of the previous version, but the tokens were hard to manage. So I guess I like this new version more from an ease-of-play perspective.

Still, I get the feeling from the rules design of the army that the designers were conflicted. It seems like they wanted fast and hard-hitting, but they couldn't figure out a way to balance that against armies that couldn't mitigate that damage. So instead it feels like Dark Eldar are more glass than cannon, you know?

I mean, just look at the sales of this army. You could argue that more people play Marine-themed armies because they just plain have more models, and by extension, more awesome things to collect. And that's ignoring the obvious build diversity and just plain well-rounded effectiveness of Marine armies. So why bother expanding or even spending serious development time on an army that seems to be increasingly relegated to a fluff-friendly Allies attachment for Eldar players?

[40kGamer]

PfP is very flavorful building as the battle rages. It makes sense the way they structured it as it is intended to represent the Dark Eldar getting stronger as the blood flows on the battlefield. And as Eldargal stated, Dark Eldar will not last if they don't engage the serious threats from turn 1. I always consider it a personal victory if I manage to get to the end of the game with a single vehicle left in the army at all!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Wow, that piece of art you posted would of made an amazing Archon model. Not impressed with that new plastic one though, the pose just looks stiff to me - Belial's model had a similar problem to it that put me off.

[eldargal]

Wow, that piece of art you posted would of made an amazing Archon model. Not impressed with that new plastic one though, the pose just looks stiff to me - Belial's model had a similar problem to it that put me off.

Some good conversions based on that around, made a female version myself.:) Only managed two trophy racks though.

Dark Eldar sold really, really well after their 2010 revamp, not sure why anyone think they would skimp on them now. Apart from (possibly) wyches I think the yare very much cannon still, lot of nasty firepower.

[Rotten Deadite]

I always consider it a personal victory if I manage to get to the end of the game with a single vehicle left in the army at all!

See, now that's revealing. If Dark Eldar players are having trouble with survivability, then an early FnP makes sense. Is that enough to allow a Dark Eldar army a chance to win on every scenario type? I don't know. Seems like the army's themed to table the enemy in record time, simple as that.

But I just don't feel like the codex reflects that. Even the current codex doesn't seem to create that kind of an army. Rather, it seems like the Dark Eldar army is an army designed to get tabled.

These debates would all be a lot easier if there was a centralized database of tournament-sanctioned results, I think.

[Mr Mystery]

But tournaments skew things.

Dodgy rules interpretations, more likely to run into a powergamer and his list o'bore, cheats playing for time to force an early turns conclusion (which favours shooty armies overall). They also tend to lack enough terrain on each board, hence the preceived dominance of firepower over combat.

Tournaments are a horrible source of information!

[eldargal]

Plus tournament players tend to go for more forgiving armies that let you make more mistakes.

[Rotten Deadite]

Tournaments are a horrible source of information!

On the contrary, they're an excellent source of information.

"Dodgy rules interpretations." See? Already you've learned that the rules aren't printed clearly enough, or are just plain terrible, or you need better judges at your tournaments. Oh, I'm talking about "official" tournaments, by the way. I'm certainly not suggesting that every LGS that runs a table should be monitored.

"Powergamer and his list o'bore" Powergamer lists are incredibly informative. They teach the designers what's effective, what the players find easy to play with, or what other players are having a hard time countering. If GW cared about the meta, they'd be looking long and hard at wave serpent spam, for example.

Speaking of meta, that's the biggest issue with tournaments. LGS meta is really hard to take seriously. One decent player with a WAAC Necron list, for example, could skew the meta of an entire region if he's got enough gravity. And he'd throw the statistics way off until he manages to get into a large enough region where someone's solved his strategy already.

Meta's a tough thing. It can solve a game in a good way, do the balancing for the developers instead of against them, like Starcraft Brood War, to name a famous one. But a region's meta can become infected and inbred if it isn't exposed to competing environments as often as possible.

[Charon]

PfP - Currently, to get the first stage, you need to wipe out a unit.

Now, you get it from turn 2 onwards - globally (well, on all units that have said rule). So from turn two, all DE have Feel No Pain. No need to risk getting into combat, just need to dodge the worst of the enemies incoming fire, or (now do correct me if I'm wrong) just arrive from Reserves already feeling well tough.

So how is that actually worse than having to risk it, on a unit by unit basis (with the beneficiary worked out randomly in a multiple combat)?

Seriously? Anyone? No? Dust? Bueller? Bueller? Dust? Anyone? Bueller? Dust?

The problem is that key units already had Fnp 5+ on turn 1. If you are lucky maybe even Furious Charge too.
Do I need Fnp 6+ on turn 2 on my Splinter/Blaster/Shredder/Shardborn and on my Kabalites? No. Not at all. The only time when I need FnP on these units is when their transport gets blown up. And when it does, they are dead anyways as no amount of FnP is going to save them from Lasguns and Bolters. Also lots of multiple S6+ fire (or Blasts) is around currently preventing FnP from happening anyways.

Now we are speaking of turn 3 and 4 where my Incubbi finally may stop hiding and start to charge something, because as soon as they leave the Protection of their vehicle they absolutely need Fnp.

Also PfP only really helps CC units (FnP, Charge, Rage) which where not used too much before and wont be unsed too much now. Even with point reductions across the board DE are in an awkward spot. They have the profile of a Horde Army while pretending to be an elite army with elite army costs. A Hellion is no Match for an Ork Stormboy, still the Hellion (after dropping 3 points in the new dex) is 1,5 times as expensive as the Boy.

Even the anti-tank department (after the loss of HWG) is severely lacking. To drop a single Hullpoint from any AV12+ vehicle you need to point betwen 4 and 5 lances at them. And vehicle spam has become very BIG in this edition.

[40kGamer]

Plus tournament players tend to go for more forgiving armies that let you make more mistakes.

And that is definitely not Dark Eldar... one dumb move and "poof" your army disappears!

[Gamgee]

I thought I was alone thinking that he looked bad. The pose especially.

[0rph3u5]

That Archon needs a helmet ... and looking at it I think you make a nice pose out of it but the stock one is meh due to the arms...

But I don't think this will get off playing my Iyanden-fluff list ... makes DE the 2nd army I'll mothball since 7th :(

[Rotten Deadite]

And that is definitely not Dark Eldar... one dumb move and "poof" your army disappears!

I think you'll agree that an unforgiving army is not in itself a bad thing. The trick is to balance the army in such a way that a player who makes no mistakes, or rather no seriously bad mistakes, will win decisively, but not invariably.

In game theory, a perfect strategy game is not one that you play against an opponent, but rather against yourself. Unfortunately there are no perfect strategy games, aside from possibly chess or Go. And I'm sorry, but I don't terribly enjoy painting Go stones. Call me crazy.

[Charon]

Plus tournament players tend to go for more forgiving armies that let you make more mistakes.

Which is completely different to pick up games where we never see forgiving armies/units like space marines and knights.

[Eldar_Atog]

But tournaments skew things.

Dodgy rules interpretations, more likely to run into a powergamer and his list o'bore, cheats playing for time to force an early turns conclusion (which favours shooty armies overall). They also tend to lack enough terrain on each board, hence the preceived dominance of firepower over combat.

Tournaments are a horrible source of information!

Tournaments are the only way for players to get a consistent feed of information. You have access to the rulings the judges made, you have everyone's army lists and how they fared against each other. When doing an analysis, you need consistent, reliable data. A friendly, fluff game is not going to give you that because it is not going to be documented. My group does not keep up with win loss ratios, rules issues, statistical data. Does your group?

I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative. I just think your bias against competitive play is clouding your judgement. I myself avoid competitive play like the plague but it's the only source of reliable, documented data we have.

[Uberbeast]

DE codex ------This is the final nail in the coffin for me. Over 20 years of playing GW games in one form or another to come down to this. "I think it's time I see other gaming companies. It's not me it's YOU." "Ive been seeing spartan games in secret for several months now." Maybe instead of spending millions on lawsuits you lose, you could have spent the money on Making the awesome special character models for all the armies.

Yup. Myself I'm getting into Dark Age quite a bit. The rules are much better written, and free on their website. And the models are fantastic! Dark Eldar are going to be shelved for a while and maybe sold if I get out of the 40k hobby entirely.

[Kris Durrant]

" Now only the leading d witches can bring disruption Granada "
" bikes do not last in turbo damage "
" that if points have dropped quite a bit [ ... ] a unit of 5 scourges with 4 120 points out incandescent spears "

my english interpretation of that translation:
hekatrix can take haywires (leading wych?)
no longer turbo boost to do damage (already known)
now exciting but probably wishful thinking, 5 scourges with 4 weapons (perhaps haywire blasters) come in at 120 points :p lol

[daboarder]

" Now only the leading d witches can bring disruption Granada "
" bikes do not last in turbo damage "
" that if points have dropped quite a bit [ ... ] a unit of 5 scourges with 4 120 points out incandescent spears "

my english interpretation of that translation:
hekatrix can take haywires (leading wych?)
no longer turbo boost to do damage (already known)
now exciting but probably wishful thinking, 5 scourges with 4 weapons (perhaps haywire blasters) come in at 120 points :p lol

I'd say 5 scourges with heat lances are 120 pts I'd say haywire blaster would be a disruption something

God I wish there was a way to give and Archon a jump move, I now have no rules to run my harpy queen as (thanks GW for killing the baron **** heads)

[darthken]

And now just to really make my day, confirmation the Vect is gone. But just maybe he'll be available in another suppliment for more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Archon XIII]

That Archon needs a helmet ...

I plan on using the head from the Dark Elves Black Ark Fleetmaster. I've been dying for the new Archon model to come out so I can use it!

- - - Updated - - -

Do you guys think the detachment bonus that gives a 5+ to troops will still be conferred to them if they are embarked on a transport? Will the transport receive that same buff?

[Charon]

The Waepon they mentioned are pretty sureHeatlances. Would have been 158 in the old dex (if you could have taken 4 in 5) so we can assume that scourges dropped to 16 points (from 22, which is still a ****ing joke) and Heatlances dropped to 10 (from 12 and are still completely useless.).
So they finally managed to come donw to the same price as a Swooping Hawk but without their galore of special rules. Wow...

And as I just saw it... another ****ing character is gone. Look closely. Only 1 Haemonculus in the Character list and it has 3 wounds. Only the Ancient left, the small one is gone. Good Job GW....

[Kurdush]

Actually, if 5 Scourges with 4 Heat lances cost 120 p, wouldn't that make them for example 16p each (80p for five) and 10p for lances (40p for four)? Seems attractive enough to me, I am a big fan of the scorges and the heat lance...

The most of the leaked info makes me shiver though (in a bad way).

[Charon]

Compilation from various sources:

HQ
Haywire grenades only for characters

-No vect
-Archon armour 5+, no ap2 board or bike, only boosts PfP turn number when fielded in the new DE detachment which also grants 5+ cover save for Troops and 6+ cover save for everything else on the first turn but only if Night Fight
-Succubus has option of AP2 weapon
-Hemie: 70, +1 to the pfp turn if there is a heamie in the unit.
-Drahzar: 190, EW, Rampage, +1A for every 6 to wound, Incubi get +1 WS if Drahzar is in the unit.
-Lilith: 150, Rampage, No armour saves agaist her close combat attacks, rerolls to hit and to wound in close combat
-Court: Llamean 10, Ur ghul 15, Medusae 25, Sslyth 25


Units
Haywire grenades only for characters

- Harlequins are gone from the codex

-Scourges: 16 points each, 4 weapons allowed

-Incubi: 20 points, ap 2 init order, no grenades no upgrade powers

-Reavers: 16 points each, can leave combat, save is still 5+, no longer attack while moving, now bladevanes are improved HoW. all HoW attacks are Rending, base is 1 S4 hit, Caltrops D6 S6, Grav is 1 S4 Concussive.

-Witches: 10 points. NO haywires.

-Kabalites: 8 points

-Talos: 120, units of 1-3, fnp stock no pfp. 3 attacks. Chain flails only give shred.

-Cronos: 100, units of 1-3, Spirit Probe now improves FnP of all Dark eldar in 6" by 1 to a max od 4+

-Mandrakes: 12, lost 5++ baleblast s4 ap4 18” assault 2 soulblaze

-Hellions: 13, no grenades

- Beasts: Khymeras S4/T4, Flocks WS2 A4 W3, Fiend WS3, W3. Max size of 12.

-Trueborn 1 pt cheaper, min size 5 no carbines. NO haywires.

-Wracks elite no improvement, 1 special/5 models
grots 35/model, FnP

- Bomber is 160 points + cost of missiles

- Ravager more expensive lost aerial assault. Raiders and Ravagers come with dissis. Dark lances + 5 points

-Venom almost same cost, cannot take +1 stealth

-Razorwing fast attack, 130 with dissis, +10 for dark lances, void mine is 5” blast

-NO lord of war


Combat drugs
1: +1A
2: +1S
3: +1I
4: +1T
5:+1 WS
6: +1Ld

Power from Pain
Turn 1:Nothing
Turn 2: FnP 6+
Turn 3: FnP
Turn 4: Fnp, Furious Charge
Turn 5: Turn 4 + Fearless
Turn 6+: Turn 5 + Rage
(+1 to turn if haemon in the unit)


Weapons:
- Huskblade ap3, cheaper, not a relic

- Hex Rifle inflicts ID on Precision Hits got cheaper

- Soul Trap gives +1s for each usnaved wound inflicted in a challenge

- Phantasm GL works like TGL, shorter range. Doesn’t work on ATSKNF

- Ossefactor is assault 1, fleshbane, ap2. If something is killed then the victims unit get d6 hits with s equal to t of the victim, ap-, ignores cover

- Liquifier is now s3 more expensive

- Venom Blade can only be taken by the Acothyst now

- Stun Claw +1S, ap6, confers ID in challenge

- Shadow Field is more expensive doesn’t fail until end of phase

- Agoniser is now Poison 4+, still AP3, same cost

- Scissorhand is Poison 4+, Rending

- Electro corrosive whip is Poison 5+ (sic), AP3, Concussive and is also the most expensive of all Coven weapons

- Flesh Gauntlet is Poison 4+, ID on 6 To Hit

- PGL does NOT confer grenades anymore - I have not seen the Incubi profile page, so cannot say if they've gained grenades or not

- Splinter Cannons are Salvo 4/6 and got more expensive (so a double nerf)
- lances on infantry are a bit cheaper

- Heat Lance sliiiightly cheaper, it also says that it can be only taken by Scourges but without seeing the unit profiles I cannot verify if Reavers can take it or not

- Mindphase Gauntlet, Flesh Gauntlet, Scissorhand are cheaper, half the cost; ECW is the same

- Djin blade became 33% more expensive


Artefacts:
-- Animus Vitae
one use, assault 1, s4 ap2, 8" if a unsaved wound is inflicted lets all Dark eldar add 1 to the turn number for PfP effects until the end of the game

-- Archangel of Pain
once per game, all units within 9" test Ld with a -2 penalty, then take a wound with no cover/armor saves for each point they failed. Sounds great BUT this does not work against ATSKNF!

-- Armour of Misery
Ghostplate with Fear and -2 Ld penalty to all enemy units within 6"

-- Djin Blade
AP3, +2 Attacks, after all attacks roll D6, on 1 the bearer suffers a wound with no saves

-- Helm of Spite
Adamantium Will for all friendly units within 12", Psykers within 12" suffer Perils on any double.

-- Parasite's Kiss
Pistol, Poison 2+, Master-crafted, after inflicting an unsaved wound, the bearer restores a single wound.

- Wych weapons
(all 5 points):
Hydras confer Shred
Razors reroll To Hit
Shardnet/Impaler reroll 1s on To Hit and To Wound


Vehicles, equipments/weapons
- Splinter racks now work on all Splinter weapons

- Shock Prow now gives AV14 when ramming

- Chain Snares now let a vehicle Tank Shock but not Ram

- Torment Gren. Launchers can now be fired, 24", blast, s1, unit hit tests Ld, takes a wound for each point it failed, no armor or cover saves, doesnt work against ATSKNF

- Night Shield confers Stealth can’t be taken by venoms

- flickerfields only for venoms

- sails let a vehicle flat out 24"

- Monoscythe, Shatterfield and Necrotoxin missles haven't changed

- Implosion Msls are s6 ap2 blast

- there are no new ranged weapons other than Ossefactor and Dark Scythe (24", S8, AP2, blast, only on Bomber)

- Stinger Pod hasn’t changed

- TGL, Night Shields, Splinter Racks, Trophies are all more expensive. TGL in particular has tripled in cost.

- Envenomed Blades and Retrofire Jets are gone.

- bomber is 10 av on all sides

[Mr Mystery]

Why so few Grenades for Eldars?

[deaddice]

Well I know there have been plenty of people saying its doom and gloom and I am afraid I will have to be one of them.

The most distressing thing I have seen is the lack of assault grenades since PGL dost not give grenades any more , any news on if they get these at all ?

The drop in anti armour options is also a concern, I mean what good are are assault troops if you can only assault a transport and get at the juicy troopers inside? After all poison weapons cant be used to crack tanks so yeah left rather confused about this codex.

The only bright side I see is that Lelith seems to have the glaring issue of her being able to wound things fixed up.....

Guys any hope spots ??

[eldargal]

If all these are accurate then DE assault is basically dead.

[Charon]

Not only assault, anti tank as well.

[DrLove42]

Jesus

Is there any good news?

[Charon]

sure there is:

Kabalites went down 1 point. Scourges and Reavers are 16 now and... hmm... oh! Scourges are 4 weapons in 5.

So... I guess that balances well with all the nerfes to every single unit.

[daboarder]

well....strictly speaking scourges didnt get nerfed....so its not EVERY unit...Just saying' :p

[Mr Mystery]

I'm intrigured about the sort-of-alleged loss of Heat Lance on the bikes - I mean, it's on the sprue. Seems a very odd thing to do.

But then, not giving assault unit grenades (going on the above list - facts may out differently in the end) seems a very odd thing to do.

[eldargal]

Shooting is still pretty good, ravager will be useless if it oses aerial assault. Scourges and flyers are still good anti-tank. Wyches, reavers and incubi are worthless without access to assault grenades, archons are going to suck at challenged but why would you challenge in a ****ty assault army anyway. Splinter weaponry is better.

It's not a wholesale disaster, it's just really bull**** that they managed to nerf already underpowered assault units. What teh **** is GWs problem with eldar assault units? They act like they are overpowered and don't need grenades its ****ing insane, and don't get me started on abilities which don't work against Marine only ATSKNF, **** that ****.

[Charon]

I'm intrigured about the sort-of-alleged loss of Heat Lance on the bikes - I mean, it's on the sprue. Seems a very odd thing to do.

But then, not giving assault unit grenades (going on the above list - facts may out differently in the end) seems a very odd thing to do.

without seeing the unit profiles I cannot verify if Reavers can take it or not

Not confirmed.


Shooting is still pretty good

Not half as good as before with price increases across the board.
Also flyers and scourges never where good against vehicles. 2 Lances do next to nothing (you need around 5 lance shots to drop a single HP on a AV12+ vehicle) and scourges either have to suicide (yey!) or they are getting bombed by either templates or blasts as every high point - low survivability unit of footsloggers.

[Mr Mystery]

More or less what I was getting at.

Also - assault grenades. Think I read the list wrong. It says Wyches don't get Haywire Grenades, but is silent about Plasma/Assault/Whatever Grenades, but does specifically say he hasn't seen the page for Incubi, so can't say if they have Grenades or not.

Seems there's still a lot to be confirmed overall - probs still worth waiting and seeing.

[Charon]

They still have plasma. You can also read that in the WD battle report where wyches used their plasma granades to blow up a Wyvern :rolleyes:

Incubi never had grenades and they are not modeled on them, no reason to give them nades when they got nerfed anyways (yey! The Dark Eldar Aspect Warriors without Exarch powers!).

[Mr Mystery]

Least not that the author saw so far. You never know.

Does sound like much has changed though.

[Krayd]

They still have plasma. You can also read that in the WD battle report where wyches used their plasma granades to blow up a Wyvern :rolleyes:

Incubi never had grenades and they are not modeled on them, no reason to give them nades when they got nerfed anyways (yey! The Dark Eldar Aspect Warriors without Exarch powers!).

They should have given them 'counts as assault grenades' for their tormentors, which are in the fluff. Idiots.

I'm not worried about the Ravager losing aerial assault as much as I'm worried about them losing their armor, like the Voidraven did. It would suck to lose the only DE vehicle that can't easily be destroyed by boltguns.

People who are all that worried about the aerial assault loss are forgetting that Ravagers didn't have aerial assault in 3rd edition, and DE players still spammed Ravagers back then as the best HS choice. Also, they can still fire 2 or their 3 weapons at full BS after moving at cruising speed, which, although an annoying nerf, isn't a total loss.

[40kGamer]

Idiots.

This sums the current direction up perfectly. :p

[Eldar_Atog]

About the only bright side I can see with this book is the removal of harlequins. It could mean they will make a supplement for them. Otherwise, it's just nerfs and disappointment.

It's such a reversal from the last DE release/codex. Beautiful, new models and a book with solid choices.. Now, removal of about half of the selections from the HQ section, removal of an elite choice, universal nerfs to almost every unit, very few new models.

I don't think I will sell my DE models as I really want to paint them.. but I have no urge to field the army or pick up any of the new models. The succubus is tempting but I doubt I would ever want to use it. I've never been so disappointed about a release before. I usually managed to find something positive but not this time.

[40kGamer]

About the only bright side I can see with this book is the removal of harlequins. It could mean they will make a supplement for them. Otherwise, it's just nerfs and disappointment.

I was hoping for updated harlequin rules but I guess they found having them in both Eldar books troublesome. I am really excited about the possibility of a full Harlequin supplement (hopefully something better then the cash grab codex they called the Legion of the Damned)... I would expect that we will not see anything until they circle back to redoing the Eldar codex at some point in the future.

[darthken]

My only bright side is the only model i need to have every option is the voidraven. So in a few months time ill be trolling E-bay for one. And i has anyone heard if the beasts are going made into a plastic kit or remain failcast?

[Charon]

Probably remain failcast as the rest of the models which were not made plastic in this release.
Would go for replacements. There are quite a few that look better and/or are cheaper.

Puppetwars Barghest for example

http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=260

[Bowser]

Dark Lances getting more expensive on vehicles? Ravages losing aerial assault? I rarely comment, but if these rumours are true, not only am I going to have to remodel half my vehicles but I will also have less things to play with and they will be less effective as well. Hey, let's have a fast army but force them to move at a walking pace to use half their guns...and I was just starting to really love my Dark Eldar over this summer too.

[Mr Mystery]

Dark Lances getting more expensive on vehicles? Ravages losing aerial assault? I rarely comment, but if these rumours are true, not only am I going to have to remodel half my vehicles but I will also have less things to play with and they will be less effective as well. Hey, let's have a fast army but force them to move at a walking pace to use half their guns...and I was just starting to really love my Dark Eldar over this summer too.

1. Pop the sponsons off (unless you've glued them in. Personal choice!)
2. Use as a Raider
3. Profit?

Dunno. Your list may be Raidered out!