Tyranid Q & A Thread

[Blaznak]

Greets:
The new Tyranid book has SOOO many unanswered questions, I thought I'd start a thread where we could post along with possible answers.

Here is what I've come up with (Get your aspirin). Thanks for any thoughts!

1) "While Tyranid XYZ is alive": This phrase comes up a few times in the rules. Some examples: Hive Commander, Alien Cunning, and Its After Me. Both of these rules function "while the tyranid is alive" However, both of these rules can be used with "in reserve" models, and the "Its After Me" rule is for the Deathleaper, which is meant to spend time in reserve. In fact, on Deathleaper, you choose its victim at the start of the game. I am presuming this phrasing means: You can use the ability even if the tyranid in question has not yet entered the game from Reserve. Compare this to the "Phermone Trail" which uses the wording "on the board".

2) Tyrant Guard: Can they go to ground if they do NOT have a Hive Tyrant joining them? The wording implies they do not go to ground, but does not say that. I'd guess they can go to ground as long as they are not guarding a Hive Tyrant.

3) Alpha Warrior: Does an Alpha Warrior that has suffered a Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill loss share it with its unit of warriors? The wording suggests yes, until it leaves the unit.

4) Termagants: Can a unit of Termagants use a weapon OTHER than fleshborers and upgrade to Stranglewebs? The rule says you can swap out a fleshborer for a strangleweb. It also says the ENTIRE BROOD can replace its fleshborers with a different weapon (but not the strangle web). I would guess this has the same sort of ruling as the Ork Nobs trying to get different weapons. In other words: Step 1, replace a fleshborer with the strangleweb. Step 2, replace all (remaining) members' with weapon of choice. However, the phrasing does not exactly state this as it says the ENTIRE brood has to do the swap out.

5) Does the Spore Mine Cyst effect interrupt movement? You drop it during Movement, but it has a shooting effect. I would presume from its wording it is resolved immediately, meaning it may affect how you move the rest of your troops!

6) Trygon Tunnelling: What is the minimum distance to avoid an enemy? Does this mean you have to move it up to 2" away, so it is not in combat? Or does it mean base to base so it is in combat? It can't assault on the turn it comes in, so this is a bit problematic. I would think the minimum distance would be 2" away as you cannot move to within 2" of an enemy unless you are assaulting (typically).

7) Spawn Termigants: Doubles exhausts this power. I am presuming triples do as well.

8) Spirit Leech: No armour saves are allowed. What about cover or invulnerable?

9) Desiccator Larvae: Its strength 1 but wounds non-vehicles on a 2+. However, if it normally could not inflict a wound... I'm guessing this will be explained that it has to be able to affect something in order to use the 2+ ability. Otherwise... wow. Just wow...

[Sam]

1. I would assume that they do indeed function while in reserve, though I'm not entirely sure.

2. All infantry units can go to ground. The only reason the Tyrant Guard ever CAN'T is if the have a Hive Tyrant attached.

3. It would seem that it does, though I cannot think of a case where the Prime would have its WS or BS reduced and the Warriors would not be affected as well.

4. I would assume that they can still take Stranglewebs, citing Codex: Orks as you did.

5. It sounds like you resolve the attack immediately.

6. The Trygon must be at least 1" away from any enemy model, just like anything else. Note: it is 1", not 2", that you must remain from the enemy, and that's not just for the Trygon.

7. I would assume so as well.

8. It does not say it ignores either of these, therefore it does not.

9. As with any poisoned weapon, Desiccator Larvae ALWAYS wound on a 2+, regardless of toughness. S1 on means that it cannot affect vehicles and will never re-roll to wound against model with a toughness greater than 1.

Several of these questions have answers that can be found in the BRB, I suggest that you read through the rules carefully for an answer before asking people on the internet, who may or may not know what they are talking about.

[Blaznak]

9. As with any poisoned weapon, Desiccator Larvae ALWAYS wound on a 2+, regardless of toughness. S1 on means that it cannot affect vehicles and will never re-roll to wound against model with a toughness greater than 1.



I don't see where it says its a poisoned weapon, though. Thus... the question! :)

[Nabterayl]

I don't see where it says its a poisoned weapon, though. Thus... the question! :)
You don't have to be poisoned to wound something on a given number. Poisoned means that (i)you wound targets on a given roll, regardless of Toughness, and (ii) you get to re-roll failed rolls to wound against targets whose Toughness is less than or equal to your Strength. There's nothing wrong with wounding all targets on a 2+ and not being poisoned.

[DarkLink]

1) "While Tyranid XYZ is alive": This phrase comes up a few times in the rules. Some examples: Hive Commander, Alien Cunning, and Its After Me. Both of these rules function "while the tyranid is alive" However, both of these rules can be used with "in reserve" models, and the "Its After Me" rule is for the Deathleaper, which is meant to spend time in reserve. In fact, on Deathleaper, you choose its victim at the start of the game. I am presuming this phrasing means: You can use the ability even if the tyranid in question has not yet entered the game from Reserve. Compare this to the "Phermone Trail" which uses the wording "on the board".

"So long as XYZ is alive" means exactly that; until that model has been removed as a casualty. It doesn't have to be on the board yet. "On the board" and "so long as XYZ is alive" are two different, though similar things.



2) Tyrant Guard: Can they go to ground if they do NOT have a Hive Tyrant joining them? The wording implies they do not go to ground, but does not say that. I'd guess they can go to ground as long as they are not guarding a Hive Tyrant.

Read the BRB. Any infantry unit can go to ground, unless it has special rules forbidding it. A Hive Tyrant can't go to ground because it is an MC, thus this rule.



3) Alpha Warrior: Does an Alpha Warrior that has suffered a Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill loss share it with its unit of warriors? The wording suggests yes, until it leaves the unit.

The Warriors use the Alpha Warrior's WS/BS, thus will use his lowered WS/BS. Unless the rule says "unmodified" WS/BS, which I don't think it does.



4) Termagants: Can a unit of Termagants use a weapon OTHER than fleshborers and upgrade to Stranglewebs? The rule says you can swap out a fleshborer for a strangleweb. It also says the ENTIRE BROOD can replace its fleshborers with a different weapon (but not the strangle web). I would guess this has the same sort of ruling as the Ork Nobs trying to get different weapons. In other words: Step 1, replace a fleshborer with the strangleweb. Step 2, replace all (remaining) members' with weapon of choice. However, the phrasing does not exactly state this as it says the ENTIRE brood has to do the swap out.

Yes, step 1 replace fleshborers with strangleweb if you want to. After that, individual models may replace their weapon (either a fleshborer or strangleweb) with whatever weapon. Every other model/unit in the game that has options like this follows this pattern.



6) Trygon Tunnelling: What is the minimum distance to avoid an enemy? Does this mean you have to move it up to 2" away, so it is not in combat? Or does it mean base to base so it is in combat? It can't assault on the turn it comes in, so this is a bit problematic. I would think the minimum distance would be 2" away as you cannot move to within 2" of an enemy unless you are assaulting (typically).

Read the BRB and check out the Space Marine Drop Pod rules as well, for reference. Minimum distance is 1". You can't end up in combat.



7) Spawn Termigants: Doubles exhausts this power. I am presuming triples do as well.

If you roll three dice with the same result, then any two of those dice have the same result. So yes, it exhausts the power.



8) Spirit Leech: No armour saves are allowed. What about cover or invulnerable?

Read the BRB. You get saves against shooting attacks unless specifically denied them. Would a lascannon ignore invulnerable or cover saves just because it ignores armor saves?



9) Desiccator Larvae: Its strength 1 but wounds non-vehicles on a 2+. However, if it normally could not inflict a wound... I'm guessing this will be explained that it has to be able to affect something in order to use the 2+ ability. Otherwise... wow. Just wow...

Read the BRB. Wounds on a 2+ means "wounds on a 2+".




I'll point out that I don't have the Tyranid codex. Common sense and an understanding of the BRB is all that seems to be needed. It is possible that the wording of a specific rule might change these answers, but if that is true it should be blatantly obvious when reading the actual codex.

[Blaznak]

You don't have to be poisoned to wound something on a given number. Poisoned means that (i)you wound targets on a given roll, regardless of Toughness, and (ii) you get to re-roll failed rolls to wound against targets whose Toughness is less than or equal to your Strength. There's nothing wrong with wounding all targets on a 2+ and not being poisoned.

I'm with you. I just wasn't sure I was really reading what I was reading. That makes this an insanely nifty power that is the ultimate template weapon. Who cares if it does nothing against vehicles! Yikes!

(P.S. Thanks everyone for the 2" v 1" mix up. That is the correct difference. But I think the point I was going for seems to be well covered by the explanation: Namely you move the Trygon to the 1" mark so it is not in base to base.)

[Sam]

I'm with you. I just wasn't sure I was really reading what I was reading. That makes this an insanely nifty power that is the ultimate template weapon. Who cares if it does nothing against vehicles! Yikes!

(P.S. Thanks everyone for the 2" v 1" mix up. That is the correct difference. But I think the point I was going for seems to be well covered by the explanation: Namely you move the Trygon to the 1" mark so it is not in base to base.)

It's not even close to the ultimate template weapon. It can wound things really easy, sure, but they get their armor save.

[DarkLink]

It's not even close to the ultimate template weapon. It can wound things really easy, sure, but they get their armor save.

How many flamers are AP3?

[TSINI]

How many flamers are AP3?

i'm afraid it's AP -

not AP3

hits automatically and wounds on a 2+though, gonna be usefull for enemy with rubbish armour :D

[Grey2321]

How many flamers are AP3?

The Flamestorm Cannons on the Land Raider Redeemer :D

[DarkLink]

i'm afraid it's AP -

not AP3

hits automatically and wounds on a 2+though, gonna be usefull for enemy with rubbish armour :D

My point was, Sam said the flamer in question wasn't as good as other flamers because it doesn't ignore armor. My rhetorical question was to point out that it works just fine against models that have good enough armor to get saves against normal flamers/heavy flamers.

[Caldera02]

New question:

Just curious because the wording is vague as always so would like some opinions from yous guys, I know you have em!

Can an Alpha Warrior who joins a unit of Warriors outflank given the Hive Tyrant Hive Commander ability?

As far as I can tell, IC's negate USR's to units that have them and vice versa. Outflank isn't a USR though. That's where the wording in the Codex is vague to me. It doesn't say, gives the unit of troops scout or infilitrate, just says outflank.

So your thoughts? Kind or unkind cause I know I will get both probably. Kind arguments would be better though! If not, gloves is coming off fools!

[Sam]

My point was, Sam said the flamer in question wasn't as good as other flamers because it doesn't ignore armor. My rhetorical question was to point out that it works just fine against models that have good enough armor to get saves against normal flamers/heavy flamers.

No, no I did not say that. I said it was not the ultimate template weapon, I never said it was worse than a flamer. The Inferno Cannon beats it for range and AP, and will have the same chance to wound against most models. The same is true of the Acid Spray on the Tyrannofex. Flamestorm Cannons punch through power armor and will still wound most things on a 2+. The Desiccator Larvae is good, but it is not the ultimate template weapon.

[Sam]

New question:

Just curious because the wording is vague as always so would like some opinions from yous guys, I know you have em!

Can an Alpha Warrior who joins a unit of Warriors outflank given the Hive Tyrant Hive Commander ability?

As far as I can tell, IC's negate USR's to units that have them and vice versa. Outflank isn't a USR though. That's where the wording in the Codex is vague to me. It doesn't say, gives the unit of troops scout or infilitrate, just says outflank.

So your thoughts? Kind or unkind cause I know I will get both probably. Kind arguments would be better though! If not, gloves is coming off fools!

No, the Prime is a separate unit that lacks the ability to outflank on its own. The Tyrant only gives the Warriors the ability to outflank, not them and all attached characters.

[DarkLink]

No, no I did not say that. I said it was not the ultimate template weapon, I never said it was worse than a flamer. The Inferno Cannon beats it for range and AP, and will have the same chance to wound against most models. The same is true of the Acid Spray on the Tyrannofex. Flamestorm Cannons punch through power armor and will still wound most things on a 2+. The Desiccator Larvae is good, but it is not the ultimate template weapon.

Well, I didn't mean that you said "worst flamer evah", just something about being on the same level as normal flamers, to which my first though was "weight of fire beats armor saves almost as well as high AP (better in this case)", so I just felt like mentioning it. Regardless, I'd take the Larvae over a normal flamer (though maybe not a heavy flamer).

[Tarrandus]

I've got some questions 'bout the new dex, and I don't think they need thier own thread so I'll just ask them here:

IB- Lurk "...if there are no enemies in line of sight or in range of at least one of its ranged weapons, or if the unit has no ranged weaponry, it must instead run towards the nearest piece of area terrain..."

How does his rule work with the fact that if you take a range measurement, it counts as shooting, even if you are out? Is this an exception, are you allowed a measure, and then if you miss, can still run?

Also, with Mycetic Spores, what is the procedure if you are unsure which enemy unit is the closest? Make measurements, just pick one, or what? This also conflicts with the normal shooting measurements rule, since you'd be measuring range to at least 2 units before you shot.

[Nabterayl]

The save mechanic isn't about shooting. If something causes a wound, you can take any kind of save against it, unless there is a rule specifically prohibiting a particular type of save. "No armor saves may be taken" is not shorthand for "no saves may be taken" and never has been.

[ETJ]

8) Spirit Leech: No armour saves are allowed. What about cover or invulnerable?




Read the BRB. You get saves against shooting attacks unless specifically denied them. Would a lascannon ignore invulnerable or cover saves just because it ignores armor saves?

Spirit leech isn't a shooting attack. I'm assuming there's no saves to be had here.

[ETJ]

his metaphor is still faulty.

that makes the real question: do units inside transports get cover saves? x)

[DarkLink]

I've got some questions 'bout the new dex, and I don't think they need thier own thread so I'll just ask them here:

IB- Lurk "...if there are no enemies in line of sight or in range of at least one of its ranged weapons, or if the unit has no ranged weaponry, it must instead run towards the nearest piece of area terrain..."

How does his rule work with the fact that if you take a range measurement, it counts as shooting, even if you are out? Is this an exception, are you allowed a measure, and then if you miss, can still run?

Also, with Mycetic Spores, what is the procedure if you are unsure which enemy unit is the closest? Make measurements, just pick one, or what? This also conflicts with the normal shooting measurements rule, since you'd be measuring range to at least 2 units before you shot.

Just as the rule says, if you fail to shoot (such as being too far away), you run to the nearest terrain. Exactly as spelled out in the rule.


Spirit leech isn't a shooting attack. I'm assuming there's no saves to be had here.

Dangerous Terrain tests aren't shooting attacks, yet you still get invulnerable saves against it.


The save mechanic isn't about shooting. If something causes a wound, you can take any kind of save against it, unless there is a rule specifically prohibiting a particular type of save. "No armor saves may be taken" is not shorthand for "no saves may be taken" and never has been.

Right.


his metaphor is still faulty.

that makes the real question: do units inside transports get cover saves? x)

Can units in transports take wounds? (don't bother answering)

The point of my metaphor wasn't to provide a perfect example. It was a snarky, rhetorical question, not a counter argument.

[ETJ]

not sure why i shouldn't bother answering?
Mortifis has kinda presented a pretty good case for it sucking souls from transports.

This *is* a wound causing effect, rather than a model-affecting effect. therefore presumably invulnerable saves would be takeable (esp. since it only says ignores armour) - i'm curious as to whether cover saves are takeable against anything that isn't shooting (don't have rulebook on me)

the fact they aren't mentioned (cover saves) means presumably it's meant to be obviously yes or no. the problem being that i hear both sides of the argument around the place >.> and it does bring up an inconsistency with transports (well, 100% of the models are covered.. 1+ save!)

you don't get to be snarky on something that's quite so... unobvious.

[Drakkan Vael]

Cover saves are only against shooting attacks or psychic shooting attacks.
The Ability of the Doom of Malantai is neither, as discussed in other threads. So no cover save.

[HsojVvad]

This can be for a few of then 'Nids power, where they say no armour saves, don't forget the opponent does get invunerable saves though. So if they get no cover save or armour save, they still do get an invualnerble save, unless otherwise stated, and I havn't read anything in the 'Nid codex that says no invulnerable saves.

[Sykostrdel]

I was wondering what you should do about Broods in the new Codex. I don't see where lictors, zoanthropes or even the Carnifex broods can operate "independently" like before. What do you think? I think it's pretty lame to have three fexes targeting the same unit every time.